green diesel

digzy

a mate of mine has a jeep-bought new in 2003-using green diesel in it since the day it was bought without exception. there's some issue with it now and the toyota dealer blamed it on the diesel. it's the low sulphur stuff he uses afaik. he's in denial. reckons if the diesel is ok in his tractor it should be ok for the jeep/car.

anyway, was wondering if green diesel actually fcuks up the car or is it a myth?

btw my mate isn't me:)

colm_mcm

digzy wrote: »

a mate of mine has a jeep-bought new in 2003-using green diesel in it since the day it was bought without exception. there's some issue with it now and the toyota dealer blamed it on the diesel. it's the low sulphur stuff he uses afaik. he's in denial. reckons if the diesel is ok in his tractor it should be ok for the jeep/car.

anyway, was wondering if green diesel actually fcuks up the car or is it a myth?

btw my mate isn't me:)

Regardless of what he's running it on. the jeep is it of warranty for the last 6 years

Land cruisers are direct injection common rail engines. They work to finer tolerances than most tractor engines

shawnee

The only difference between the two diesels is a dye added to one so both diesels are of similar quality.;)

Skuxx

I'm pretty sure the sulphur level in green diesel is considerably higher than in white diesel! Over the years this may have had some effect!

Valetta

Maybe they have now started adding bad karma as well as dye to green diesel.

Good enough for him if his engine is knackered.

digzy

shawnee wrote: »

The only difference between the two diesels is a dye added to one so both diesels are of similar quality.;)

thats exactly what he said. i reckon when the garage hasn't a clue they blamed it on the diesel. i'd say the petrol/diesel from the 'budget' suppliers would me much more dangerous. i saw a lady with an 11 merc e class pulling up outside the local one last week. spend 50k on a car and risk the engine damage for the sake of 5-10c per litre:rolleyes:

Terrontress

Combine harvesters are worth hundreds of thousands, have strict emission levels and operate to strict tolerances yet use green diesel.

The dye in diesel is specifically designed to do no damage to the engine and the diesel is the same as any other.

Bandara

The higher sulphur issue was years ago, the only difference these days is the chemical marker added to the white derv after it gets to Ireland

What I find strange is why your friend is complaining to the dealer after 9 years !!!!!!!

mickdw

Was there a change to green diesel a few years back. I remember hearing that a few agri contractors were having issues with it.

darragh o meara

digzy wrote: »

thats exactly what he said. i reckon when the garage hasn't a clue they blamed it on the diesel. i'd say the petrol/diesel from the 'budget' suppliers would me much more dangerous. i saw a lady with an 11 merc e class pulling up outside the local one last week. spend 50k on a car and risk the engine damage for the sake of 5-10c per litre:rolleyes:

Green diesel in my village is €0.99 a litre vs €1.65 for the proper stuff. Yer man in the petrol station told me he's selling more green than anything else. So I reckon we're gonna see an influx of checkpoints soon. The only job for green is the second tank, pain in the ass to fit and have but when your saving €0.66 a litre it's a pain I could put up with

But back to the point in hand. Main dealers will do anything they can to get out of paying warranty on something, especially if it's thier own warranty. Your buddy just has to probe that the diesel didn't cause the problem. If it were me id have told them that he had to use a tank of green that morning as he ran out and doesn't usually run her on it.

Diesel is diesel be it green or white, years ago there was more sulphur and a few other things in green as the older type tractor engines needed the lubricating properties of diesel to lube the injection pump something the newer diesel doesn't really do. Any of the lads I know with the vintage diesel tractors throw a few caps of engine oil in with a tank of diesel to give the diesel a bit more lubing properties. The same practice in my opinion would solve a lot of the injector pump problems on the ford tdci engines too.

My advise is to get a diesel specialist to diagnose the problem and ask him would green diesel cause it.

digzy

Hammertime wrote: »

The higher sulphur issue was years ago, the only difference these days is the chemical marker added to the white derv after it gets to Ireland

What I find strange is why your friend is complaining to the dealer after 9 years !!!!!!!

no he's not complaining. wants to get it sorted but reckons garage dont know the cause and are blaming it on the diesel

Tabnabs

It is still possible to get high sulphur (1000PPM) gas diesel oil. I understand that many farmers still use it as it is cheaper than Gas Oil (10ppm). There is (almost entirely) no FAME content in these products either unlike standard DERV Automotive Diesel. So to say they are the same except for a dye is incorrect.

bcmf

darragh o meara wrote: »

So I reckon we're gonna see an influx of checkpoints soon.

Just on a side note about checkpoints - When I arrived into Cherbourg last week there was, what I presume to be, a French customs officer with a syphon checking cars for the colour of Diesel. Thankfully mine was clear.

digzy

tbf it's madness using the stuff. the fines are severe, i think your vehicle can be seized. for the sake of the 30-40 quid a week you save it's not worth it.

godtabh

bcmf wrote: »

Just on a side note about checkpoints - When I arrived into Cherbourg last week there was, what I presume to be, a French customs officer with a syphon checking cars for the colour of Diesel. Thankfully mine was clear.

So its not just an Irish thing then?

él statutorio

bcmf wrote: »

Just on a side note about checkpoints - When I arrived into Cherbourg last week there was, what I presume to be, a French customs officer with a syphon checking cars for the colour of Diesel. Thankfully mine was clear.

Was he dipping just French cars or all cars?

I wonder what he could do if he dipped an Irish car and found green?

longhalloween

él statutorio wrote: »

Was he dipping just French cars or all cars?

I wonder what he could do if he dipped an Irish car and found green?

You could argue green diesel was a cultural thing

sheehan12

it a 5000 fine:eek: may be only 2500:eek: for the first time for green diesel and i saw them in cork last week and there where more car being check than van and truck. i was driving a jeep and was not pull over

bcmf

él statutorio wrote: »

Was he dipping just French cars or all cars?

I wonder what he could do if he dipped an Irish car and found green?

Dunno as I was one the first off the ferry.
Regards about what they could do I was wondering that myself.

digzy

digzy wrote: »

tbf it's madness using the stuff. the fines are severe, i think your vehicle can be seized. for the sake of the 30-40 quid a week you save it's not worth it.

Like any dodge it really would depend on how long you got away with it. If your friend has actually been using green since he bought it and never been caught that's 8 years. If he used one tank per week we will say 40 quid difference but its more than likely more. That's about 16k saved in 8 years. Even with one or two fines for getting caught he would still be well up.

He is obviously breaking the law and I am in not in any way agreeing with what he does or saying its a thing other people should do btw.

hughjohn

Tabnabs wrote: »

It is still possible to get high sulphur (1000PPM) gas diesel oil. I understand that many farmers still use it as it is cheaper than Gas Oil (10ppm). There is (almost entirely) no FAME content in these products either unlike standard DERV Automotive Diesel. So to say they are the same except for a dye is incorrect.

Yes you can still get it but it is only a cent/litre cheaper but most suppliers dont stock it and those that do are legally obliged to only supply it to fixed equipment tanks such as for grain dryers and generators etc.

They wont put it into your tractor tank.At least mine wouldnt and I ve been dealing with them for 20 years.

Also green does contain FAME I think about 7.5%. So the same supplier said.

However I would not use it in a car as I dont believe it is as clean burning and would lead to more trouble down the line, but I only drive 12000 KMS /year.

Tabnabs

hughjohn wrote: »

Yes you can still get it but it is only a cent/litre cheaper but most suppliers dont stock it and those that do are legally obliged to only supply it to fixed equipment tanks such as for grain dryers and generators etc.

They wont put it into your tractor tank.At least mine wouldnt and I ve been dealing with them for 20 years.

Also green does contain FAME I think about 7.5%. So the same supplier said.

However I would not use it in a car as I dont believe it is as clean burning and would lead to more trouble down the line, but I only drive 12000 KMS /year.

I buy various grades of fuel as part of my job so am very familiar with costs and specifications. Currently, almost exactly 3c/L difference in price in the two "green diesel" products but this may increase with bulk discount pricing. We have two suppliers who do not put any FAME into their product, so always ask your supplier for confirmation of content.

aujopimur

godtabh wrote: »

So its not just an Irish thing then?

I've been dipped in UK ferryports as well, I got a ticking off a few years ago for carrying a few 25lt. containers of road diesel in the back of the van.
Another guy had his rally car petrol confiscated and a fine imposed by UK customs at Hollyhead.

Fat Cant

digzy wrote: »

Hammertime wrote: »

The higher sulphur issue was years ago, the only difference these days is the chemical marker added to the white derv after it gets to Ireland

What I find strange is why your friend is complaining to the dealer after 9 years !!!!!!!

no he's not complaining. wants to get it sorted but reckons garage dont know the cause and are blaming it on the diesel

What way is your mates jeep affected ? It could be 1 of the injectors could be gone or dirt in one of them , they can be taken out and reconditioned . is the jeep hard to start and engine running uneven ?

Scortho

As far as I know theres little difference between green diesel and normal diesel except the die.
Engine damage may occur to your vehicle if you used washed green diesel. Definitely stay away from that stuff

Grimreaper666

At the rate we're being fleeced here now to pay for the banks it's hard to blame anyone for using green diesel, the cost of fuel here now is an absolute disgrace.

Our man in Havana

There is no difference apart from the green dye and a separate chemical marker. So if you remove the green you can still be done as a test can be done to detect the chemical marker.

Markcheese

Is there a diff between green auto diesel, and home heating diesel... Maybe filled up with kerosene by mistake...

Our man in Havana

Kero does not have the same lubricating properties as diesel. If you add some oil to the tank you should be fine.

dave45dave

Valetta wrote: »

Maybe they have now started adding bad karma as well as dye to green diesel.

Good enough for him if his engine is knackered.

Why would you make a stupid comment like that , for all we know the jeep might never have left his land , which hes entitled you use green. He also doesnt have to tax it either.

Posting crap about bad karma doesnt help op with his problem.

eth0

Fair play to him, good to see someone standing up to the Govt with their high taxes. The money he'd have spent on the proper stuff would have been no benefit to us anyway, only the Germans.

aujopimur

dave45dave wrote: »

Why would you make a stupid comment like that , for all we know the jeep might never have left his land , which hes entitled you use green. He also doesnt have to tax it either.

Posting crap about bad karma doesnt help op with his problem.

I recall customs entering farms and checking for rebated fuel in jeeps that were not used on the road, I don't recall the outcome.
Maybe someone can bring me up to date on this.

Joe 90

aujopimur wrote: »

I recall customs entering farms and checking for rebated fuel in jeeps that were not used on the road, I don't recall the outcome.
Maybe someone can bring me up to date on this.

I remember, a long time ago, early 80s, my father got fined for using red diesel as it was then in a truck which was only ever used on a building site.

Our man in Havana

There is no exemption for vehicles that are used off road.

Valetta

dave45dave wrote: »

Why would you make a stupid comment like that , for all we know the jeep might never have left his land , which hes entitled you use green. He also doesnt have to tax it either.

Posting crap about bad karma doesnt help op with his problem.

This http://new.ifa.ie/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=oTc_dWIlb0o%3D&tabid=654&mid=2536 Can't copy/paste but it's on Page 7/8

justifies my "stupid" comment. :rolleyes:

dave45dave

Valetta wrote: »

This http://new.ifa.ie/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=oTc_dWIlb0o%3D&tabid=654&mid=2536 Can't copy/paste but it's on Page 7/8

justifies my "stupid" comment. :rolleyes:

Digzy was saying his friend was having problems with his jeep and wanted to know if the diesel was the problem , he doesnt want to read through 10 pages of bull**** rules and regulations. Thats not going to solve his problem.

Valetta

dave45dave wrote: »

Digzy was saying his friend was having problems with his jeep and wanted to know if the diesel was the problem , he doesnt want to read through 10 pages of bull**** rules and regulations. Thats not going to solve his problem.

If he had read through the rules and regulations in the first place he may well not have the problems he has now.

cadaliac

Valetta wrote: »

If he had read through the rules and regulations in the first place he may well not have the problems he has now.

Ah, right. So that's why the 4x4 is in the garage!!:rolleyes:

Aside from reading the rules and regulations, the OP is asking about whether or not the fuel used is the cause of his 4x4 having the engine issues.
The OP didn't ask if he was right or wrong. I think we all know the answer there.

Markcheese

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Kero does not have the same lubricating properties as diesel. If you add some oil to the tank you should be fine.

Thanks but I wasn't actually planning on sticking kero in my tank. With or without a bit of oil... Kero burns a lot hotter than diesel...can't imagine that'd be great for a modern diesel engine.... Over time... Thanks though

duckysauce

aujopimur wrote: »

I've been dipped in UK ferryports as well, I got a ticking off a few years ago for carrying a few 25lt. containers of road diesel in the back of the van.
Another guy had his rally car petrol confiscated and a fine imposed by UK customs at Hollyhead.

What's the problem with bringing a couple of 25lt containers of diesel to the UK ?? Am going to be doing this myself in a couple of weeks.

Pottler

Unless you go to the rounds(may or not be worth it, it's an individual view)of fitting a second tank, it's not a great idea(as well, obviously as being illegal)to run on green at the mo. Everyones at it, so everyones out looking for it(ie customs). If a second, concealed tank is fitted, tapped into the existing fuel lines, and the original tank is left fully intact with about a quarter tank of white in it, you have a good chance of getting away with it as if you are dipped, the result will be white and the people doing the test are really not that switched on - they give the general impression of being let out of the office for the day to play at dipping people.


Personally, I can't be arsed as if you are going on a long journey and need to refuel, you can't without publicly putting green in at a filling station, which is dumb and asking for it, or you end up putting white into the second tank which, due to their general location, looks well dodgy. Also, be aware, if you go to get your yoke serviced, and the mechanic changes the filter and its full of cowjuice, chances are he will talk and you will get a customs special visit when you least expect it shortly after.


Also, if you run a company or business, be aware that getting caught running green will lead to an almost automatic VAT audit by revenue, which will bend you over a large barrel and shaft you with much vigour. If you are a Nun and have kept perfect records, you will still get a big bill, probably c.a 7-10k as somwhere, somhow, you will have messed up as the rules are so complicated.
Also, be aware, if you are registered, and your activity does not co-relate to your fuel spend, Revenue, who ARE very intelligent and good at their job, will ask questions and once again, it's over the barrel, kaks down for you. Vat registered businesses running green are idiots, period. On many levels. None of which are worth going into, but suffice it to say, idiotic. Mileage allowances, Vat rebates, etc etc...


Also, beware that Customs are not all alike, there are spetznaz Customs and ordinary customs. If you attract the attention of the spetznaz, your second tank will only add pre-meditation and deception to the list of wrongdoings as they WILL find it and will open injectors, etc. These are not the roadside test crowd, these are the "arrive in 5 cars at 6am in your Yard looking specifically for you" types. They exist. Roll out the barrel, kaks down, etc etc if you play with these boyos.
In summation, if you commute to work, have 1 vehicle, run a second tank, have your own agricultural tank and a reason to have it, have the money for fines and are hard knecked, fire ahead. Otherwiser don't. Also, if you have employees, be prepared to never fall out with a single one of them if you run green, as if you do, it's barrel time should they decide to "dob you in" after you fire them.
My own view, now, is don't bother, suck it up and run white.

duckysauce

Pottler wrote: »

Unless you go to the rounds(may or not be worth it, it's an individual view)of fitting a second tank, it's not a great idea(as well, obviously as being illegal)to run on green at the mo. Everyones at it, so everyones out looking for it(ie customs). If a second, concealed tank is fitted, tapped into the existing fuel lines, and the original tank is left fully intact with about a quarter tank of white in it, you have a good chance of getting away with it as if you are dipped, the result will be white and the people doing the test are really not that switched on - they give the general impression of being let out of the office for the day to play at dipping people.
Personally, I can't be arsed as if you are going on a long journey and need to refuel, you can't without publicly putting green in at a filling station, which is dumb and asking for it, or you end up putting white into the second tank which, due to their general location, looks well dodgy. Also, be aware, if you go to get your yoke serviced, and the mechanic changes the filter and its full of cowjuice, chances are he will talk and you will get a customs special visit when you least expect it shortly after.
Also, if you run a company or business, be aware that getting caught running green will lead to an almost automatic VAT audit by revenue, which will bend you over a large barrel and shaft you with much vigour. If you are a Nun and have kept perfect records, you will still get a big bill, probably c.a 7-10k as somwhere, somhow, you will have messed up as the rules are so complicated.
Also, be aware, if you are registered, and your activity does not co-relate to your fuel spend, Revenue, who ARE very intelligent and good at their job, will ask questions and once again, it's over the barrel, kaks down for you. Vat registered businesses running green are idiots, period. On many levels. None of which are worth going into, but suffice it to say, idiotic. Mileage allowances, Vat rebates, etc etc...
Also, beware that Customs are not all alike, there are spetznaz Customs and ordinary customs. If you attract the attention of the spetznaz, your second tank will only add pre-meditation and deception to the list of wrongdoings as they WILL find it and will open injectors, etc. These are not the roadside test crowd, these are the "arrive in 5 cars at 6am in your Yard looking specifically for you" types. They exist. Roll out the barrel, kaks down, etc etc if you play with these boyos.
In summation, if you commute to work, have 1 vehicle, run a second tank, have your own agricultural tank and a reason to have it, have the money for fines and are hard knecked, fire ahead. Otherwiser don't. Also, if you have employees, be prepared to never fall out with a single one of them if you run green, as if you do, it's barrel time should they decide to "dob you in" after you fire them.
My own view, now, is don't bother, suck it up and run white.

do you work with Revenue ?

aujopimur

duckysauce wrote: »

What's the problem with bringing a couple of 25lt containers of diesel to the UK ?? Am going to be doing this myself in a couple of weeks.

IIRC they said it was illegal importation of fuel.

Pottler

duckysauce wrote: »

do you work with Revenue ?

No, I've just been around the block a long time!:D I may have been bold in a previous life.

Big Nasty

Pottler wrote: »

Unless you go to the rounds(may or not be worth it, it's an individual view)of fitting a second tank, it's not a great idea(as well, obviously as being illegal)to run on green at the mo. Everyones at it, so everyones out looking for it(ie customs). If a second, concealed tank is fitted, tapped into the existing fuel lines, and the original tank is left fully intact with about a quarter tank of white in it, you have a good chance of getting away with it as if you are dipped, the result will be white and the people doing the test are really not that switched on - they give the general impression of being let out of the office for the day to play at dipping people.
Personally, I can't be arsed as if you are going on a long journey and need to refuel, you can't without publicly putting green in at a filling station, which is dumb and asking for it, or you end up putting white into the second tank which, due to their general location, looks well dodgy. Also, be aware, if you go to get your yoke serviced, and the mechanic changes the filter and its full of cowjuice, chances are he will talk and you will get a customs special visit when you least expect it shortly after.
Also, if you run a company or business, be aware that getting caught running green will lead to an almost automatic VAT audit by revenue, which will bend you over a large barrel and shaft you with much vigour. If you are a Nun and have kept perfect records, you will still get a big bill, probably c.a 7-10k as somwhere, somhow, you will have messed up as the rules are so complicated.
Also, be aware, if you are registered, and your activity does not co-relate to your fuel spend, Revenue, who ARE very intelligent and good at their job, will ask questions and once again, it's over the barrel, kaks down for you. Vat registered businesses running green are idiots, period. On many levels. None of which are worth going into, but suffice it to say, idiotic. Mileage allowances, Vat rebates, etc etc...
Also, beware that Customs are not all alike, there are spetznaz Customs and ordinary customs. If you attract the attention of the spetznaz, your second tank will only add pre-meditation and deception to the list of wrongdoings as they WILL find it and will open injectors, etc. These are not the roadside test crowd, these are the "arrive in 5 cars at 6am in your Yard looking specifically for you" types. They exist. Roll out the barrel, kaks down, etc etc if you play with these boyos.
In summation, if you commute to work, have 1 vehicle, run a second tank, have your own agricultural tank and a reason to have it, have the money for fines and are hard knecked, fire ahead. Otherwiser don't. Also, if you have employees, be prepared to never fall out with a single one of them if you run green, as if you do, it's barrel time should they decide to "dob you in" after you fire them.
My own view, now, is don't bother, suck it up and run white.

Fcuked if I'm reading that Pottler.

Paragraphs please dude!

aujopimur

Pottler wrote: »

Unless you go to the rounds(may or not be worth it, it's an individual view)of fitting a second tank, it's not a great idea(as well, obviously as being illegal)to run on green at the mo. Everyones at it, so everyones out looking for it(ie customs). If a second, concealed tank is fitted, tapped into the existing fuel lines, and the original tank is left fully intact with about a quarter tank of white in it, you have a good chance of getting away with it as if you are dipped, the result will be white and the people doing the test are really not that switched on - they give the general impression of being let out of the office for the day to play at dipping people.
Personally, I can't be arsed as if you are going on a long journey and need to refuel, you can't without publicly putting green in at a filling station, which is dumb and asking for it, or you end up putting white into the second tank which, due to their general location, looks well dodgy. Also, be aware, if you go to get your yoke serviced, and the mechanic changes the filter and its full of cowjuice, chances are he will talk and you will get a customs special visit when you least expect it shortly after.
Also, if you run a company or business, be aware that getting caught running green will lead to an almost automatic VAT audit by revenue, which will bend you over a large barrel and shaft you with much vigour. If you are a Nun and have kept perfect records, you will still get a big bill, probably c.a 7-10k as somwhere, somhow, you will have messed up as the rules are so complicated.
Also, be aware, if you are registered, and your activity does not co-relate to your fuel spend, Revenue, who ARE very intelligent and good at their job, will ask questions and once again, it's over the barrel, kaks down for you. Vat registered businesses running green are idiots, period. On many levels. None of which are worth going into, but suffice it to say, idiotic. Mileage allowances, Vat rebates, etc etc...
Also, beware that Customs are not all alike, there are spetznaz Customs and ordinary customs. If you attract the attention of the spetznaz, your second tank will only add pre-meditation and deception to the list of wrongdoings as they WILL find it and will open injectors, etc. These are not the roadside test crowd, these are the "arrive in 5 cars at 6am in your Yard looking specifically for you" types. They exist. Roll out the barrel, kaks down, etc etc if you play with these boyos.
In summation, if you commute to work, have 1 vehicle, run a second tank, have your own agricultural tank and a reason to have it, have the money for fines and are hard knecked, fire ahead. Otherwiser don't. Also, if you have employees, be prepared to never fall out with a single one of them if you run green, as if you do, it's barrel time should they decide to "dob you in" after you fire them.
My own view, now, is don't bother, suck it up and run white.

I've seen the "speznez" guys you mention in operation,they swooped on a haulage depot and trucks parked at drivers houses at 6am one morning,
triggered by the owners increased VAT refund claims on green diesel, and reduced refund claims on road diesel, silly greedy man.

craftypaddy

i have seen these too, a farmer was bringing over uk transits driving them round and selling them on, they took ten vans off him one morning at half five, all the jeeps ect on site were on green deisel, they even took a boat out of the yard as he didnt have a reciept, he was not happy

Pottler

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Fcuked if I'm reading that Pottler.

Paragraphs please dude!

I tried! It's worth a read if you are into/contemplating the cabbage juice though, paragraphs or not.:D Make an effort!

duckysauce

Pottler wrote: »

No, I've just been around the block a long time!:D I may have been bold in a previous life.

or Anal ?????

Pottler

duckysauce wrote: »

or Anal ?????

You what now duckie? That's a bit cheeky, rude even. Maybe you could read my big post in an East-end accent, from the viewpoint of someone who'd been through the mill of all those things and knew the score. Like it really is, like. Be nice, or go to AH or the Thunderdome.

Our man in Havana

Lads calm down. No need for such personal insults.