Aer Lingus to Edinburgh

vicwatson

Are all these flights run by Aer Arann now on Aer Arann aircraft or do AL use jets on these routes? EI3254 & EI3255

Storm 10

1254 and 1255 are operated by Aer LIngus Airbus, the ones you have there are operated by Aer Arann

Growler!!!

All the 4 numbered EI flights starting with EI 3xxx are run by EIR.
With the 2 flight numbers you mentioned, it is a Dublin based aircraft.

vicwatson

It states on their website that they are operated by Aer Arann

Aer Arann then have the best times for flying in the day.

What aircraft does Aer Arann use on the route please, if it's turbo prob jobs I aint going with them !

Growler!!!

vicwatson wrote: »

It states on their website that they are operated by Aer Arann

Aer Arann then have the best times for flying in the day.

What aircraft does Aer Arann use on the route please, if it's turbo prob jobs I aint going with them !

EIR only operate turbo props.
Try FR if you want jets.

vicwatson

Growler!!! wrote: »

EIR only operate turbo props.
Try FR if you want jets.

Yes I know that

I'm trying to determine if Aer Lingus fly jets to Edinburgh or have Aer Arann taken over the route completely ? Is it all props now ?

Growler!!!

AFAIK EIR operate all the dub - edi flights.
The other poster mentioned EI mainline flight numbers, but I cant imagine the loads would be large enough for a 320. That's why EIR can increase frequencies.

And purely cos I'm off today and have the time - I'm interested as to why you wouldn't travel with EIR?

Dacian

Oh look, EI have a timetable on their website!
http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/bookonline/timeTables.do


4 flites from DUB-EDI per day, as indicated above the 4 digit flite numbers are operated by Aer Arann using their ATR-72/42's in Aer Lingus Regional livery.

The EI 254/255 (1410/1540 departures respectively) is operated by Aer Lingus using an A320.

Nonoperational

vicwatson wrote: »

It states on their website that they are operated by Aer Arann

Aer Arann then have the best times for flying in the day.

What aircraft does Aer Arann use on the route please, if it's turbo prob jobs I aint going with them !

Is that a joke?

highlydebased

vicwatson wrote: »

It states on their website that they are operated by Aer Arann

Aer Arann then have the best times for flying in the day.

What aircraft does Aer Arann use on the route please, if it's turbo prob jobs I aint going with them !

What's wrong with a turboprop?

coylemj

highlydebased wrote: »

What's wrong with a turboprop?

Don't they fly at a lower altitude and go slower than jets and therefore are more affected by bad weather?

I can definitely remember a day a few years ago when the weather was bad and Aer Arann flights were cancelled but all of the jets operated as normal.

That said, I did Dublin-Rennes and back a couple of weeks ago on the ATR-72 and it was fine, a small bit rough coming back above the south English Channel but nothing serious. I've also flown FlyBe lots of times to Southampton without any problems. I'd be considered a slightly nervous flyer.

Shamrock231

The short distance involved between DUB and EDI mean that neither Jets nor Turbo-Props will be going anywhere above 22,000'....

Strumms

My girlfriend is a nervous flyer and will not go on an aircraft unless its a jet. Neither of us are Ryanair fans but we went to EDI last year on them for that very reason, Wasnt aware thought that EI operated some 320's on that route however maybe its a recent thing.

The company I work for operate both Turbo Prop (ATR) & Jet Aircraft, any of the pilots will tell you there can be very significent differences between how each is adversly affected in bad weather. There are also operational limitations / restrictions related to weather that differ between the two.

L1011

Strumms wrote: »

My girlfriend is a nervous flyer and will not go on an aircraft unless its a jet.

Have you explained to your girlfriend that both engine types are turbine powered? Most people I know that are scared of props are imagining them as 1940s WWII fighter engines, not modern turboprops...

She'll have dreadful trouble if & when unducted turbofans come in!

Dacian

MYOB wrote: »

Have you explained to your girlfriend that both engine types are turbine powered? Most people I know that are scared of props are imagining them as 1940s WWII fighter engines, not modern turboprops...

I myself have experienced this misconception, an acquaintance decided to complain to me (as I am familiar with the industry) about his experience on RE a few years back,he was unhappy with the turboprop as "it was like being on a WWII plane".

Strumms

MYOB wrote: »

Have you explained to your girlfriend that both engine types are turbine powered? Most people I know that are scared of props are imagining them as 1940s WWII fighter engines, not modern turboprops...

She'll have dreadful trouble if & when unducted turbofans come in!

Err, It's not the engines or anything technical about them that freak her out. Turbulence, bad weather, bumps, chop just heighten her sence of fear. You will be more likely to be affected by this type of weather in an ATR vs a jet therefore she tends to avoid them, that is her rational. We have friends who are pilots and I have worked in the industry for several years all be it in an operations capacity so she has no shortage of available information on the technical side of things but it doesn't do much good as we are dealing with an irrational fear here.

L1011

Strumms wrote: »

Err, It's not the engines or anything technical about them that freak her out. Turbulence, bad weather, bumps, chop just heighten her sence of fear. You will be more likely to be affected by this type of weather in an ATR vs a jet therefore she tends to avoid them, that is her rational. We have friends who are pilots and I have worked in the industry for several years all be it in an operations capacity so she has no shortage of available information on the technical side of things but it doesn't do much good as we are dealing with an irrational fear here.

You're going to have the same problems in an ERJ135 or a 328Jet.

Strumms

MYOB wrote: »

You're going to have the same problems in an ERJ135 or a 328Jet.

To some extent you will indeed, however it's unlikely that it will become an issue for us as they are reasonably rare enough birds out of DUB from what I can see so I wouldn't imagine it to be a deal breaker any time soon.

All this talk of Edinburgh has me thinking though, beautiful city, maybe time to hit it for a weekend again before too long....

vicwatson

gpf101 wrote: »

Is that a joke?

You're a joke.

I'm just asking

Expert eh

Storm 10

I flew from Dublin to Galway in Aer Arann ATR 72 a while back and it was very windy, the flight was all over the place you could not even go to the toilet, thankfully it was short enough, the landing was one of the worst I ever had, touched down on the right wheel big tilt to the left then a bounce I was not scared but there were a lot of white faces in the terminal..

Nonoperational

vicwatson wrote: »

You're a joke.

I'm just asking

Expert eh

The part I assumed you were joking about was that you wouldn't take the flight if it was operated by a turboprop... Find it incredibly strange that a grown man wouldn't fly an Aer Arann ATR. They're actually quite nice to travel in, especially the newer ones.

No I'm not an expert. Never said I was.

Locker10a

Storm 10 wrote: »

I flew from Dublin to Galway in Aer Arann ATR 72 a while back and it was very windy, the flight was all over the place you could not even go to the toilet, thankfully it was short enough, the landing was one of the worst I ever had, touched down on the right wheel big tilt to the left then a bounce I was not scared but there were a lot of white faces in the terminal..

I have experienced the exact same thing! But it was a Manchester - Dublin flight and it was a jet! It didnt bother me at all but people were very nervous, gasping and screaming!! I thought we would have to divert the cross winds wer so bad but we didnt! So the plane type does not guarentee a smoth flight! But i can see how somone with a fear of flying could have this mis conception!

coylemj

Locker10a wrote: »

I have experienced the exact same thing! But it was a Manchester - Dublin flight and it was a jet! It didnt bother me at all but people were very nervous, gasping and screaming!! I thought we would have to divert the cross winds wer so bad but we didnt! So the plane type does not guarentee a smoth flight! But i can see how somone with a fear of flying could have this mis conception!

That is very poor logic - you had a bad experience in a jet therefore the proposition that turboprops are more prone to turbulence is flawed - I assume that's what you mean by 'misconception'. Nobody is saying that jets are immune to the effects of bad weather, even the big daddy can get knocked about....

Seven injured as Qantas A380 flight hits turbulence

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9001082/Seven-injured-as-Qantas-A380-flight-hits-turbulence.html

The fact remains that there have been occasions when the Aer Arann fleet was grounded because of high winds while all of the other airlines' jets operated as normal.

Growler!!!

coylemj wrote: »

The fact remains that there have been occasions when the Aer Arann fleet was grounded because of high winds while all of the other airlines' jets operated as normal.

You are correct that is a fact there has been an occasion. However,

You mentioned before this was in cork. The crosswinds limit for ATRs is a lot lower than for 73's or 320's. This was the reason for the 2 aircraft based there to be "grounded". I wouldn't quite call it the entire fleet.

coylemj

Growler!!! wrote: »

You are correct that is a fact there has been an occasion. However,

You mentioned before this was in cork. The crosswinds limit for ATRs is a lot lower than for 73's or 320's. This was the reason for the 2 aircraft based there to be "grounded". I wouldn't quite call it the entire fleet.

Nope, I never mentioned Cork. On the day in question all Aer Arann flights out of Dublin were grounded but jets operated normally, that's how RTE reported it.

Growler!!!

Your right you didn't mention cork had it stook in my head for some reason.

But the point remains the wind limits are different for each type of aircraft. If the wind is outside the limitations it cannot legally be flown.

Strumms

Sheesh,

Ok, some facts..

ATR and simular aircraft are more affected by adverse weather compared to their bigger faster brothers.

People who have an issue with flying from a slight anxiety to an outright fear will avoid anything likely to trigger that or make for an uncomfortable flight, this may include avoiding aircraft types, props whatever....

If this does not seem rational to you fine, as we are dealing with an irrational fear. However a bit of understanding might go a long way and if someone else for whatever reason doesn't like props for whatever reason that's their business. To come up with pony crap like ' finding it incredibly strange that a grow man would be afraid to fly ' it bone headed and moronic to put it lightly are as one or two attitudes in this thread. If you don't understand that's your issue not anyone elses. I guess it comes down to lack of effort in understanding and recognising the differennce and the reasoning people make the choices they do in life however I am guessing that would be rather lost on some.

Growler!!!

Not to lessen your fear but most peeps on here are either pilots or enthusiast's so you'll have to forgive us if we cant really understand a fear of what we love.

Nonoperational

Strumms wrote: »

Sheesh,

Ok, some facts..

ATR and simular aircraft are more affected by adverse weather compared to their bigger faster brothers.

People who have an issue with flying from a slight anxiety to an outright fear will avoid anything likely to trigger that or make for an uncomfortable flight, this may include avoiding aircraft types, props whatever....

If this does not seem rational to you fine, as we are dealing with an irrational fear. However a bit of understanding might go a long way and if someone else for whatever reason doesn't like props for whatever reason that's their business. To come up with pony crap like ' finding it incredibly strange that a grow man would be afraid to fly ' it bone headed and moronic to put it lightly are as one or two attitudes in this thread. If you don't understand that's your issue not anyone elses. I guess it comes down to lack of effort in understanding and recognising the differennce and the reasoning people make the choices they do in life however I am guessing that would be rather lost on some.

I'd be curious if someone could give an idea of the ways ATRs differ practically from "bigger faster aircraft" in adverse weather.
Are the operator cross wind guidelines very different for the ATR-72 and the A320? As I said I'm no expert and would be genuinely interested. As far as I know all Aer Arann aircraft have CATII capabilities so approaches should be similar in calm conditions. For the experts, how much more crosswind on approach is an EI A320 allowed attempt to land in vs a RE ATR 72?

Strumms

I am also an enthusiast all be it a slightly lapsed one. I have been a professional within the aviation industry for almost 12 years all be it not a pilot. I am fortunate in the fact that i personally have no issue with flying however as i said earlier in the thread the same does not go for my girlfriend. I would personally expect and i in fact find as fact that those who work in the industry to be more appreciative of such issues not dismissive of them so you might excuse me if I don't buy into what you are saying or those you are excusing, sorry.

Growler!!!

I think if you re read my post youll find I wasn't being dismissive of a fear of flying or excusing anybody. They are your words not mine.
You've obviously taken exception to the the fact that some of us don't agree with you. But hey as a fact I know, that's life.

Nonoperational

Strumms wrote: »

I am also an enthusiast all be it a slightly lapsed one. I have been a professional within the aviation industry for almost 12 years all be it not a pilot. I am fortunate in the fact that i personally have no issue with flying however as i said earlier in the thread the same does not go for my girlfriend. I would personally expect and i in fact find as fact that those who work in the industry to be more appreciative of such issues not dismissive of them so you might excuse me if I don't buy into what you are saying or those you are excusing, sorry.

Ok, I've edited my post, I won't common any more on the mans to fly turboprops.

Strumms

gpf101 wrote: »

Jesus I give up. Flying an ATR from Dublin to Edinburgh is not a life choice. Obvioulsy being an idiot and a moron because I find it strange someone would refuse to fly a route because it's operated by a perfectly good aircraft makes my further comments on this topic null and void, so I'll let you at it.

I'd be curious if you'd outline some of the ways ATRs differ practically from "bigger faster aircraft" in adverse weather too. Are the operator cross wind guidelines very different for the ATR-72 and the A320? As I said I'm no expert and would be genuinely interested. As far as I know all Aer Arann aircraft have CATII capabilities so approaches should be similar in calm conditions. For the experts, how much more crosswind on approach is an EI A320 allowed attempt to land in vs a RE ATR 72?

Our aircraft are neither a320 or 737 so I couldn't give you numbers. As for our ATR aircraft I can find out should you wish. Also there may be more individuals on here with the direct operational knowledge from their experience up the front who can run you some numbers. Failing that google is your friend. Without being an expert I can safely say every aircraft which is of a different build, weight, wing type, engine power, aerodynamics etc... have different chactaristics in flight and respond to adverse weather differently. I am basing my Knowledge on my own personal experiences flying as a passenger, from speaking to pilot friends on the topic at length.

Because the ATR is a pretty good aircraft, ok, maybe someone with a fear of sailing per say might feel more comfortable on a the Ulysees ship than the Swift fast craft. I have been on both in bad weather, I know which I'd rather be on. Then again I wonder If ill be asked to provide any numbers or technical details to back that up.

mickdw

I like flying, have no fear at all but will avoid the turboprops at all times.
They are small and slow. If the choice exists between a ryanair 737 and an aer lingus operated turboprop, I will be on the 737 every time.
Also, whats with the way they seem to fly the ATR nose down towards the runway in certain conditions?

Growler!!!

mickdw wrote: »

I like flying, have no fear at all but will avoid the turboprops at all times.
They are small and slow. If the choice exists between a ryanair 737 and an aer lingus operated turboprop, I will be on the 737 every time.
Also, whats with the way they seem to fly the ATR nose down towards the runway in certain conditions?

That's all well and good but what if you don't have a choice to fly jets. If you were flying from waterford for example.

Different wing design. Turbo prop has a straight high lift wing which generates more lift for a lower angle of attack.
Jet wing is designed for high speed high altitude flight. To generate the required lift at lower speeds it must increase its angle of attack ie lift its nose more. That's a slightly simplified version.

An ATR always has a nose down approach until the flare.

Locker10a

coylemj wrote: »

That is very poor logic - you had a bad experience in a jet therefore the proposition that turboprops are more prone to turbulence is flawed - I assume that's what you mean by 'misconception'. Nobody is saying that jets are immune to the effects of bad weather, even the big daddy can get knocked about....

Seven injured as Qantas A380 flight hits turbulence

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9001082/Seven-injured-as-Qantas-A380-flight-hits-turbulence.html

The fact remains that there have been occasions when the Aer Arann fleet was grounded because of high winds while all of the other airlines' jets operated as normal.

I know that and you know that but i was simply trying to make the point to those who read the replys on here who may not be as clued in on things aviations as others are that jets are not immune to all weather! There is a misconception among some* people that turbo props are 60 year old boneshakers that are unsafe and are very bumpy all the time and that jets fly on rails! I know this as i have friends who have expressed this opinion to me! Im not disagreeing with what you say simply making a point for thoses who are none the wiser! No need to get your knicker in a twist;)

Oh and i didnt have a bad experience as such! I actually enjoyed it:p

maggy_thatcher

The biggest drawback with the regional flights is the very restrictive hand-luggage size (0.6 times the size), and, given the heavy charges for checking in a bag, means that it's generally only economical to travel with them if you're going for a really short time.

Aer Lingus wrote:

All carry-on must be within the size dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 24cm.
Aer Lingus Regional (flight numbers 3000 to 4000 operated by Aer Arann) size limits are 48cm x 33cm x 20cm.

A Dub in Glasgo

My wife came back from Dublin 2 weeks ago on an ATR-72. She is a nervous flyer and thought the flight was absolutely fine. The luggage space is smaller though than the normal service we use (Ryanair to Prestwick or Edinburgh)

Dublin to Edinburgh has Aer Lingus and Ryanair in direct competition therefore there are options if somebody 'will not fly on an ATR-72'