Bord Gais estimated bills

kamikazejay

Is there a specific maximum timeframe for estimated gas bills? We have been estimated for over six years now and the dialed in reads are not reflected in the bills.

Zab

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

kamikazejay

I heard that they have to get an actual reading at least every two years. The meter is very old and has been due to be replaced for ages and we are scheduled for an after hours appointment as soon as they come available again. I suspect the meter to be faulty, counting more than we use. I can not file a high consumption complaint because we have been estimated for so long and they don't have my dialled in readings on record. They are looking for a huge back payment now, saying that we have been overusing.

cookie1977

Why didnt you call in a meter reading before, or have you?

kamikazejay

I have called in meter readings, approximately once a year but they didn't reflect in the bills and they don't have them on record

cookie1977

And why do you think the meters are wrong? The estimates are just that, estimates, as they haven't gotten a reading from you. That's why they are out. They're based on the most up to date read they have for you.

You're best off calling in with a meter read every two months. Is your meter locked away from the outside? You could ask them to allow you to spread the payments for the owed money over a longer period which might easy the repayment.

kamikazejay

I checked the estimated reads and compared them to the actual ones and they were always fine, even estimated a bit higher than what we used. The meter is in the garage so not accessible without us present. We work full time so are usually not home during regular daytime hours.

keithclancy

kamikazejay wrote: »

I have called in meter readings, approximately once a year but they didn't reflect in the bills and they don't have them on record

Just do it online every month, only takes a minute:
https://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/domestic-customers/metering/submit_meter_reading.jsp

Zab

Okay, if they can't get at the meter then the only way they could enforce a maximum time frame is to cut you off. I imagine you'd hear from them well in advance of this happening, if they'd even attempt it in the first place.

If they have no record of your phoned in readings then either you're doing something wrong or their system isn't working. Phone in to a person and give the reading to them instead of the machine, or possibly do it online if you think that's easier for you.

That said, are you sure the readings aren't reflected on the bill? If your estimates are close to the real thing then it sounds like they have been, and also if the estimate is close then there's no real issue anyway. The only issue with estimates is when they start to differ wildly from reality, in which case people can end up owning a lot of money.

cookie1977

kamikazejay wrote: »

I checked the estimated reads and compared them to the actual ones and they were always fine, even estimated a bit higher than what we used. The meter is in the garage so not accessible without us present. We work full time so are usually not home during regular daytime hours.

Then it is more important for you to try to give regular reads. I still don't see why you think your meter is wrong I'm afraid.

kamikazejay

Oh I will make sure that they have regular reads on the records from now on, but I need a solution to the existing problem. I don't want to wait until the next huge difference and THEN try to proof again that this meter is faulty. At the moment I am treated like a criminal, even though these dial in reads reflect on my phone bills.

kamikazejay

Because according to the meter we have used 68000 kwh of gas in the last six months

Zab

Oh, I missed your second post. You have said that the estimates match your meter. What is their basis for saying you've used more than you've been paying for?

Zab

kamikazejay wrote: »

Because according to the meter we have used 68000 kwh of gas in the last six months

You really could have explained this all a lot better to be honest.

So, there's now a 68000 kwh discrepancy between the estimate and the meter, which you're saying has occurred over the last six months but you have no proof because your meter hasn't been read in years and they have no record of your phoned in readings?

kamikazejay

The reading is hugely incorrect just now. The meter was working fine for over five years and the estimated bills were great too. Now suddenly the meter reading shows almost 3000 units more than it should show. But because the last reading that was not estimated according to their records is from 2006 they don't believe me. They are implying that we overused the gas for over six years and are looking for a huge payment.
I know that I should have double checked that my dialed in reads actually did reflect in the bills but I thought they just estimated the remainder of that billing period again, I really didn't think anything went wrong.

kamikazejay

Zab, I was trying to keep it as short as possible. I'm sorry if that caused confusion.

kamikazejay

Zab wrote: »

You really could have explained this all a lot better to be honest.

So, there's now a 68000 kwh discrepancy between the estimate and the meter, which you're saying has occurred over the last six months but you have no proof because your meter hasn't been read in years and they have no record of your phoned in readings?

That is correct

cookie1977

Get them out to check the meter. In the mean time ask them to set up a repayment plan but to note you feel the meter is in error. See what happens when they test the meter. This won't be easy to sort even if the meter is broken.

kamikazejay

They want to charge me almost 500 Euros to have the meter checked. And they won't check it in my presence, it will be taken away for testing purposes.

cookie1977

kamikazejay wrote: »

They want to charge me almost 500 Euros to have the meter checked. And they won't check it in my presence, it will be taken away for testing purposes.

Well I'm sure you can be there. Re the fee. I'm not sure. I suppose if it is broken then it'll be refunded. Who are you dealing with?

kamikazejay

No, I specifically asked them about that. The meter will be send away for testing. We are with Bord Gais. I just heard that they can't charge us the full amount without any readings for over two years. In our case they could only charge us 1/3 of the money because the last reading is over six years ago. I just wondered if anybody had heard of this here?

cookie1977

kamikazejay wrote: »

No, I specifically asked them about that. The meter will be send away for testing. We are with Bord Gais. I just heard that they can't charge us the full amount without any readings for over two years. In our case they could only charge us 1/3 of the money because the last reading is over six years ago. I just wondered if anybody had heard of this here?

Well if it has to be sent away I can understand that. I'm not sure about the other point.

Zab

Well, as far as I'm aware 3000 units is more like 33k kwh rather than 68k? How much did you actually pay for over the six month period? 3000 is high, but not as unthinkable as 6000.

Have you looked through your old bills and made sure they all say E after the reading rather than C or nothing? When was the last time you phoned in a reading? Have you tried to have Bord Gais investigate what could have happened to your readings (i.e. were they applied to a different account)?

This sounds like a sticky spot for you.

irishgeo

energy regulator complaints procedure but oyu need to register a complaint first with bord Gais.

http://www.energycustomers.ie/complaints/index.aspx#5

kamikazejay

Under Gas used it says 68000kwh. I looked through all the bills from the last six years and they all said E. I had the investigate why those phone call were not on record but they can only look back two months so they didn't investigate further. The phone calls I have on my bill for example october 2010 of 1,34 minutes to the dial a read phone number don't have any effect. I was told that I could have just hung up or not put in anything and that it would have been my responsibility to check the reflection of that meter reading on the next bill two months later.

Zab

Have you been talking to Networks or Supply?

kamikazejay

They won't let me file a complaint because in their opinion I have no reason to and no grounds without a reading for over six years

kamikazejay

Zab wrote: »

Have you been talking to Networks or Supply?

Both, Energy and Networks they are tossing the ball back and forth

Zab

As far as I understand it this is all down to Networks (as Energy just charge you for whatever Networks say you've used), although the fact that your contract is with Energy could change that.

You can go down the official complaint route like irishgeo has posted. I imagine that you will be on the hook for the testing charge if it's tested and passes, so there's some financial risk involved if you aren't confident.

Have you tried testing the meter yourself? i.e. turning off all things that are using it and turning them on one by one while watching the usage? Some tests like this would seem to be in order before you commit to the official test.

kamikazejay

Zab wrote: »

As far as I understand it this is all down to Networks (as Energy just charge you for whatever Networks say you've used), although the fact that your contract is with Energy could change that.

You can go down the official complaint route like irishgeo has posted. I imagine that you will be on the hook for the testing charge if it's tested and passes, so there's some financial risk involved if you aren't confident.

Have you tried testing the meter yourself? i.e. turning off all things that are using it and turning them on one by one while watching the usage? Some tests like this would seem to be in order before you commit to the official test.

We did check everything. Our first concern was a leak but we don't have one. We also tested the heating which is the only user and how much the pilot flame uses in one hour. These are not the causes either. That's why we think that this meter (it says 1972 imprinted to the front) turns the 1000 dial together with the 100 every once in a while

kamikazejay

How trustful are these tests if they refuse to do them in my presence?

kamikazejay

In order to contact the energy regulator I have to escalate my complaint with Bord Gais first but they won't even let me file a complaint

Zab

Just do it via a registered letter and put "official complaint" somewhere in the letter.

edit: although I don't see the commission saying anything different than BGN are at the moment.

Degag

kamikazejay wrote: »

Under Gas used it says 68000kwh. I looked through all the bills from the last six years and they all said E. I had the investigate why those phone call were not on record but they can only look back two months so they didn't investigate further. The phone calls I have on my bill for example october 2010 of 1,34 minutes to the dial a read phone number don't have any effect. I was told that I could have just hung up or not put in anything and that it would have been my responsibility to check the reflection of that meter reading on the next bill two months later.

What is the actual difference in the readings? kwh is the units used multiplied by a conversion factor. The conversion factor could be different depending on how old your meter is. Check on your bill to see what the conversion factor is.

kamikazejay

the conversion factor is 31.9 that comes out to 2158 units HCF

Zab

kamikazejay wrote: »

the conversion factor is 31.9 that comes out to 2158 units HCF

Oh. Mine was about 11 when I had gas. Has your conversion factor always been so high?

kamikazejay

it used to be at 32.2

kamikazejay

Maybe because of the cubic feet rather than cubic meters?

Degag

Zab wrote: »

Oh. Mine was about 11 when I had gas. Has your conversion factor always been so high?

It's because he has an old meter. If/When his meter is upgraded the conversion factor would go down to 11 ish. It doesn't mean he's paying anymore, it's just a different way of calculating it.

kamikazejay

Even in the cold months we never need more than 2000 kwh in a two month tonus. 68000 kwh would be enough for 68 months of winter. I don't even think that this is physically possible

Zab

Yeah, I wasn't aware that the older ones were that much higher.

kamikazejay

It says 1972 imprinted to the front of it but I don't know if that is the manufacturing year

Degag

I think you should just try and test the meter yourself. Take a meter read and turn the gas off at the meter for a few hours. The meter shouldn't change.

kamikazejay

We tried that and tested for a leak but there is none. I honestly think that meter turns the 1000 dial sometimes together with the 100 dial but I am hesitant to pay those 400 Euros in advance to get the meter tested especially because they dont want to test it in my presence

cookie1977

kamikazejay wrote: »

We tried that and tested for a leak but there is none. I honestly think that meter turns the 1000 dial sometimes together with the 100 dial but I am hesitant to pay those 400 Euros in advance to get the meter tested especially because they dont want to test it in my presence

To be honest it just sounds like this has all been caused by the estimated bills. I think it's well worth getting this assessed if you think it is faulty. Otherwise you're going to have to pay the monies owed (which you may end up having to do if there's nothing wrong with the meter).

keithclancy

kamikazejay wrote: »

We tried that and tested for a leak but there is none. I honestly think that meter turns the 1000 dial sometimes together with the 100 dial but I am hesitant to pay those 400 Euros in advance to get the meter tested especially because they dont want to test it in my presence

I severely doubt it, the meters are very reliable, the only time they'll be changed is for for benefit of the Company.

They only get slower over time, not faster.