Car Went up in Flames..

seadnamac

My car went up in flames last night and burned to the ground. It was parked in a reasonably quite residential area with lots of other cars nearby. It wasn't moved and there was no sign of any interference/breaking in, although the state it is in it's hard to be sure. There was no sign or reports of any other vandalism in the area.

I parked around 11:15 and was woken around 02:15. At that stage the fire brigade and Gaurds were on the scene and the fire had been put out so from what I can tell it had been on fire for some time. It was a 1994 Honda Civic so it was fairly old.

It has been put down as a mechanical fault as they have found nothing to suggest there was any interference with it.

Anyone have any opinions on how likely this is that it was just a fault and it wasn't set on fire? How usual/unusual would that be?

Dartz

seadnamac wrote: »

My car went up in flames last night and burned to the ground. It was parked in a reasonably residential area with lots of other cars nearby. It wasn't moved and there was no sign of any interference/breaking in, although the state it is in it's hard to be sure. There was no sign or reports of any other vandalism in the area.

I parked around 11:15 and was woken around 02:15. At that stage the fire brigade and Gaurds were on the scene and the fire had been put out so from what I can tell it had been on fire for some time. It was a 1994 Honda Civic so it was fairly old.

It has been put down as a mechanical fault as they have found nothing to suggest there was any interference with it.

Anyone have any opinions on how likely this is that it was just a fault and it wasn't set on fire? How usual/unusual would that be?

Short circuit somewhere could get something hot enough to light it... Especially if a fuse didn't blow. Maybe because of moisture ingress, or an unfortunate nibbling mouse.

Cars however, do not usually spontaneously combust.

andyseadog

not too unusual i would think. i'm sure a frayed piece of wiring etc could have caused it. unfortunate all the same.

Henry Ford III

A well placed malicious firelighter could have done this.

VEry, very, very rare, I'd be thinking vandalism is far more likely.

BrianDug

Something similar happened to a relatives car a few months ago, car was parked in a gated garden and caught fire. The relative had used it to return from work about an hour previously. Fire spread through car very quickly.

Seemed strange but it does happen most likely a short circuit as someone mentioned.

langdang

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd be thinking vandalism is far more likely.

Me too, especially for a mid-90's jap car. If it was a MINI, or high end italian, maybe some mercs(?) I'd be more inclined to believe spontaneous combustion.

naughtysmurf

Saw a 04 or 05 Hyundai go up in a puff of smoke last year all on it's own, lad I know who's a fireman says it's a regular enough occurance

kbyte61

"Honda Civic"
"Mechanical fault"

DOES NOT COMPUTE :eek:

David09

I'd be inclined to think that it was malicious.

If the cause was mechanical\ electrical fault, the chances are far more likely that it would happen while driving or moments after parking it. From what you mention, it was parked for a couple of hours before it ignited.

Another thing, if the car was modified in terms of electrical stuff done to it, the chances are greater that something could happen through accident.

Did it have a stereo recently fitted or one of those boot mounted amps? They require a heavy cable from the battery and 9/10 times are slovenly fitted without proper fuses.

Also was the battery replaced recently? Would it be possible that the incorrect type was fitted (too tall) that the connections could have rubbed off the metal underside of the bonnet, shorting it out?

If the car wasn't modified in any way and was in good condition I'd be inclined to think that it was malicious.

CJhaughey

Its not that uncommon, ask any fireman.
Thats why you shouldn't leave kids or pets in cars unattended.

seadnamac

David09 wrote: »

I'd be inclined to think that it was malicious.

If the cause was mechanical\ electrical fault, the chances are far more likely that it would happen while driving or moments after parking it. From what you mention, it was parked for a couple of hours before it ignited.

Another thing, if the car was modified in terms of electrical stuff done to it, the chances are greater that something could happen through accident.

Did it have a stereo recently fitted or one of those boot mounted amps? They require a heavy cable from the battery and 9/10 times are slovenly fitted without proper fuses.

Also was the battery replaced recently? Would it be possible that the incorrect type was fitted (too tall) that the connections could have rubbed off the metal underside of the bonnet, shorting it out?

If the car wasn't modified in any way and was in good condition I'd be inclined to think that it was malicious.

The battery had been replaced but that was about a year ago. Nothing had been done to it recently. I had to replace the clutch fluid only a couple of days ago as it had gotten empty all of a sudden if that's of any significance.

langdang

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its not that uncommon, ask any fireman.
Thats why you shouldn't leave kids or pets in cars unattended.

I'm prepared to accept that a car with a slightly bonkers body control module, or badly designed electric or electro-hydraulic powersteering could just light itself up. But an un-modified 94 civic would have so little to go wrong in it that spontaneous combustion is less likely than in newer cars.
Not ruling it out like, but...

langdang

seadnamac wrote: »

I had to replace the clutch fluid only a couple of days ago as it had gotten empty all of a sudden if that's of any significance.

didn't park it on top of a pool of bleach did ya?

edit, that wasn't a serious question by the way..

seadnamac

langdang wrote: »

I'm prepared to accept that a car with a slightly bonkers body control module, or badly designed electric or electro-hydraulic powersteering could just light itself up. But an un-modified 94 civic would have so little to go wrong in it that spontaneous combustion is less likely than in newer cars.
Not ruling it out like, but...

Just to clarify I'm pretty sure it has been modified, but that would have been when it was first imported from Japan. I have no idea what that involved as it was 18 years ago now. It was my fathers before me and has always been very well looked after.

langdang

seadnamac wrote: »

Just to clarify I'm pretty sure it has been modified, but that would have been when it was first imported from Japan. I have no idea what that involved as it was 18 years ago now. It was my fathers before me.

Well, I had badly installed ICE or handsfree kit, or just plain ropey cheapo HID lights as possible suspects. So I don't think they would have been on it when it landed here 18years ago. I'm only speculating really, none of us were there and I can't see Horatio and co taking an interest in this!

Tallon

How did they establish it was a mechanical fault if it happened 12 hours ago?

langdang

TBH, if you are gonna claim off insurance (unlikely for a 94 civic) then a mech/electrical fault suits you fine. I'd say there is a fair amount of dodgy fires have happened since late 2007.

seadnamac

langdang wrote: »

Well, I had badly installed ICE or handsfree kit, or just plain ropey cheapo HID lights as possible suspects. So I don't think they would have been on it when it landed here 18years ago. I'm only speculating really, none of us were there and I can't see Horatio and co taking an interest in this!

It's had auxillary spotlights on it for a few years now (headlights alone were never the best) that had to be disabled anytime an NCT came around (they came on with the headlights and so could not be controlled seperately which would be a fail).

Suppose I'll never really know.

seadnamac

Tallon wrote: »

How did they establish it was a mechanical fault if it happened 12 hours ago?

The fire officer suggested it was one since they could not find any sign of interference or foul play. The gardai obviously were happy to accept this and won't be looking into it any further. You can draw your own conclusions there.

@langdang;

No won't be claiming.

Mr Benevolent

seadnamac wrote: »

@langdang;

No won't be claiming.

What? Why not?

firefly08

Were they able to determine whereabouts the fire started?

Perished fuel lines are a common source of fires on old cars but normally heat from the engine is required to set it off...if you had parked it a few hours before it's hard to imagine how that would have happened.

But then firefighters would probably know if it was a fuel fire.

langdang

Confab wrote: »

What? Why not?

It'd cost you more in the long run. Fair enough if you leaving the country or something, but otherwise having to answer "yes" to the "any claims in the last 3 years" question isn't worth it in this case. Especially once the excess is taken into account!

seadnamac

firefly08 wrote: »

Were they able to determine whereabouts the fire started?

No they couldn't determine anything really.

Kenny Logins

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what caused it.I have driven race cars that (by accident) pissing fuel all over the engine bay (and engine) that didn't go up. My own classic car had a fuel leak that was dripping over the exhaust (now fixed).

I've had a few fuel leaks in my time too, no fires though. ...oh, one electrical fire.

jimmyw

Well I had a fire in the power window area of my 98 Accord in 2008, which wrote the car off.I had some difficulty with the insurance trying to get anything from them, but through persistence I did.

That was in the winter which was probably caused somehow by the frost.I used to have a civic like yours OP, the same year too but never had a fire in it.

I have a pic somewhere of the damage to the Accord.

David09

seadnamac wrote: »

The fire officer suggested it was one since they could not find any sign of interference or foul play. The gardai obviously were happy to accept this and won't be looking into it any further. You can draw your own conclusions there.

@langdang;

No won't be claiming.

If it was unmodified, then I'd almost definitely say malicious. If the car was burnt out completely it would be very difficult to tell if it was interfered with before the fire.

By the way, be prepared for a big bill from the fire tender. Likely to be a couple of hundred euro. It doesn't matter who called them, the owner of the car is liable to pay it.

If the fire was indeed malicious, that in itself may be a means of arguing the cost of it. Ie the fire wasn't through any negligence of your own.

langdang

Insurance may cover it, some do some don't. I'm sure I've seen it mentioned in some of my policies.
You may as well claim the value of the car etc if you lose a no claims bonus to pay for the call out charge.

kona

Madness how people think its malicious!. Its a 18 year old car for a start, so plenty of possible ignition sources. A professional fireman said it was mechanical too. Cars and machines ignite easier/ more often than you think!

langdang

kona wrote: »

A professional fireman said it was mechanical too.

That alone makes me doubt his ability to divine the cause. I would have said electrical. A mechanical fault? What - the car chafed itself to incandescence?

Keith186

Plenty of cars go on fire by themselves. Don't have stats but have heard it from few people that it happened too.

David09

Keith186 wrote: »

Plenty of cars go on fire by themselves. Don't have stats but have heard it from few people that it happened too.

While driving or just after being parked. Not hours later with a cold engine.

kona

langdang wrote: »

That alone makes me doubt his ability to divine the cause. I would have said electrical. A mechanical fault? What - the car chafed itself to incandescence?

Could have chafed a battery cable tho!! I know what you mean though, but sometimes people may not use the best word to describe the situation. Why would you torch a 18 year old civic? Theres better cars to torch. (like diesels )

kona

David09 wrote: »

While driving or just after being parked. Not hours later with a cold engine.

What about electrics? Ive seen some proper special attempts at wiring in cars, particularly audio systems.

David09

kona wrote: »

What about electrics? Ive seen some proper special attempts at wiring in cars, particularly audio systems.

Point taken, but usually it would happen while driving, when stuff is vibrating around and bare wires can touch metal they shouldn't.

However if a car is parked for hours, it would be unlikely to happen.

langdang

kona wrote: »

Could have chafed a battery cable tho!! I know what you mean though, but sometimes people may not use the best word to describe the situation. Why would you torch a 18 year old civic? Theres better cars to torch. (like diesels )

Fair enough:D I'd still regard that as an electrical fault, but as you say twas likely an off the cuff kinda remark from the fella.
That is about the only likely cause I could think of in a car that simple. I'd be far more likely to believe a more modern car committed hari kari.

FWIW, an uncle of mine had a car torched for the craic of it by a bunch of scummers.

kona

David09 wrote: »

Point taken, but usually it would happen while driving, when stuff is vibrating around and bare wires can touch metal they shouldn't.

However if a car is parked for hours, it would be unlikely to happen.

I was installing headlights before which required a bit of rewiring, did the job, went to turn on the lghts to test and the metal around the light was red hot. A wire was shorting to the casing, and you wouldnt believe the speed at which this happend and the heat. In the op case, Add in 18 year old wiring with brittle insulation, 18 years of dirt around it and I can see how ignition can easily occur.

Such a situation with perished brittle wiring insulation brought down a twa 747.

Man of Aran

- Could be anything ,,, OP mentioned leak of hydraulic fluid earlier, could have dripped onto hot manifold and smouldered for a while within that 3 hr period.
- Did it have DC motor 'panckake ' radiator fan ,,, this could have had internal short if it 'ran on' due to faulty sensor. Have seen shorts in a well known Italian brand fan due to carbon dust internally bridging + to -.
-Aged and weathered wiring looms.

seadnamac

Man of Aran wrote: »

- Could be anything ,,, OP mentioned leak of hydraulic fluid earlier, could have dripped onto hot manifold and smouldered for a while within that 3 hr period.
- Did it have DC motor 'panckake ' radiator fan ,,, this could have had internal short if it 'ran on' due to faulty sensor. Have seen shorts in a well known Italian brand fan due to carbon dust internally bridging + to -.
-Aged and weathered wiring looms.

Do you know something I had the heat on inside the car and I've an awful feeling that when I turned off the engine it didn't go off at the same time like it normally would. I just turned it off at the controls and thought nothing of it. I can't be positive but I'm sure I noticed something like that when I parked it up. Could that be it?

Kenny Logins

seadnamac wrote: »

Do you know something I had the heat on inside the car and I've an awful feeling that when I turned off the engine it didn't go off at the same time like it normally would. I just turned it off at the controls and thought nothing of it. I can't be positive but I'm sure I noticed something like that when I parked it up. Could that be it?

Yes...

bobin fudge

neighbour's ford escort saloon went up in flames during the night on its own as well -was put down to faulty electrics

jimmyw

David09 wrote: »

By the way, be prepared for a big bill from the fire tender. Likely to be a couple of hundred euro. It doesn't matter who called them, the owner of the car is liable to pay it.

I could be talking through my hat (if I had one) but if you have comp insurance, do they cover them charges? Or is that just house insurance?

Pottler

RoverJames wrote: »

VEry, very, very rare, I'd be thinking vandalism is far more likely.

^ No^, me and my mate parked up and went in for spuds, waitress came over(she knows us) and said -"Jasus, look at all the smoke coming out of your van" - starter had shorted and it burnt to the axels(Caddy). I've seen loads, as well as tractors and trucks. Generally it's a high capacity cable, usually the starter or suchlike, shorting and burning, or a fuel leak onto a hot manifold. Common as muck. I've had a Dyna go up under me as I was driving along- smoke poured into the cab, I pulled over and bailed out and it burnt away merrily on the hardshoulder. I was following another lad to a job, he had a Traffic, and it went up like a candle when he stopped at a junction- I did laugh a bit as it was almost brand new. I slagged him for weeks about the lengths people would go to to get out of a finance agreement.(he wasn't)

kyote00

Just as likely to have been a electrical fault, IMHO.

Actually recently saw two cars in a breakers yard in kilcock with engine fire damage....not the whole car just the engine - 04 mini and 06 rover estate....