New TV - Do I need a TV installer?(Or can I do it myself??)

selfbuildache

Well, after a year living with no TV, I'm finally giving in and looking for a new box. The house is a new build and therefore has no aerial, although it has been wired. Different shops are telling me different things and 2 out of 3 are telling me I need an installer. Having built our house, I'm now (broke and) cynical about how much I actually need other people to do.
Is it that complicated?! I'm thinking I just need to get the right aerial (a project in itself), position it in the right direction in the attic and then plug it all in??
Too simple?
I'm looking at Saorview TVs, USB compatible and just with the Irish channels. Are they hard to tune in??
I'm just not sure what I'd be paying an installer a €100 for....

glic83

A uhf aerial will do the trick into a splitter/ amp and into your tv or saorview box not too bad for most people

You shouldn't even need an amp or splitter if you plan to use just the one TV/Saroview box, a single UFH aerial in the attic plugged directly into the saorview box and a SCART cable to the TV should be enough.

Saorview boxes start at about €45, if you want the freesat as wel then combi boxes start at about €120 (not including dish, LNB etc)

coylemj

Whether an attic aerial will do the biz depends on where you live but I agree that a UHF aerial is all you need for Saorview. If you live near the border you might even be able to pick up UK Freeview (their digital TV) as well as Saorview.

Tell us roughly where you live and a good idea is to look at your neighbours rooftops and see what type of aerials they have and what direction they're pointing though I'm thinking that as you're a self-build person you mightn't have any immediate neighbours but check any house within a mile or so of you who is at roughly the same altitude i.e. ignore anyone sitting halfway up the nearest mountain!

If you're buying a new TV there should be no need for a Saorview set top box (STB), just buy a Saorview approved TV, that will have a built-in digital tuner for Saorview.

Set top boxes (the ones they sell in LIDL and ALDI for €45-60) are only needed for older TVs which were designed for analog reception and don't have a digital tuner.

selfbuildache

Thanks for the replies. I can and will check out with the neighbours as to what they do. After a few hours in town today and reading here, I think a good aerial will do the trick and that I can do it myself.

But of course, I've now seen what's out there in this new world so I'm wondering would ye be able to help me with a new question - I was thinking of getting a new TV instead of a box but now I see you can get these 'combo' boxes that will give you a load of UK channels too? If I get a new 'saorview compatible' TV, how do I go about getting the UK channels, without signing up for subscription TV? Would I still have to get a separate box??

Thanks again for replies up 'til now.

coylemj

Tell us roughly where you live, I asked you that in my earlier post. In certain parts of the country you can get away with a cheapo wideband or you may need a group aerial which only covers a subset of the UHF spectrum but will give improved reception over a wideband (one size fits all) aerial. That's why I'm asking you to say where you live, I can advice you on what aerial you need.

Without a subscription to Sky, you can get the UK channels via an aerial (Freeview) if you live near the border or in an elevated location along the east coast, or anywhere in Ireland you can install a dish and get Freesat.

For now I think there is no combo box which is 100% compatible with both Freeview and Saorview so hold off on buying any box which claims to do both at the moment.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

For now I think there is no combo box which is 100% compatible with both Freeview and Saorview so hold off on buying any box which claims to do both at the moment.

Depends on what you consider 100% compatible, I have seen a combi unit in operation and it receives all the UK & Irish channels no problem.

This thread is more suited for the TV forum, so I will move it there.

The Cush

selfbuildache wrote: »

Is it that complicated?! I'm thinking I just need to get the right aerial (a project in itself), position it in the right direction in the attic and then plug it all in??
Too simple?

Use the Saorview coverage checker to find the recommended Saorview transmitter for your area - http://www.saorview.ie/make-the-switch/coverage-map/.

The coverage checker will also tell you the Saorview frequency for that transmitter which will determine which UHF group aerial is recommended for that transmitter.

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/SAORVIEW-Frequencies-Rev-2.2.pdf
http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Saorview-DTT-October2010.pdf
http://www.tvtrade.ie/digital-tv-aerial-selection-guide.html?sef_rewrite=1

selfbuildache wrote: »

I'm looking at Saorview TVs, USB compatible and just with the Irish channels. Are they hard to tune in??

http://www.saorview.ie/help-support/help-videos/

formerly scottish paddy

If you are buying a new Saorview capable tv (which will provide the Irish channels) and you want UK channels as well, then all you need is a cheap Freesat box and a cheap dish (exactly the same type dish as Sky) and bingo! you have the lot.

The Cush

selfbuildache wrote: »

But of course, I've now seen what's out there in this new world so I'm wondering would ye be able to help me with a new question - I was thinking of getting a new TV instead of a box but now I see you can get these 'combo' boxes that will give you a load of UK channels too? If I get a new 'saorview compatible' TV, how do I go about getting the UK channels, without signing up for subscription TV? Would I still have to get a separate box??

If you're within the coverage area of a UK transmitter in N Ireland or Wales another aerial combined with the Saorview aerial may pull in the UK channels.

If you're not within the coverage area of a UK transmitter then you'll require a satellite dish connected to a free-to-air or Freesat satellite receiver. Some satellite receivers come with the ability to record satellite TV requiring 2 cables from the satellite dish to the satellite receiver.

There are also a few Saorview TVs with a built in free-to-air satellite tuner, Walker and Samsung (model nos. ending with UXXU) come to mind.

selfbuildache

The Cush - Thanks for all that. I've looked up all the links and at least now know what I'm looking for. Very useful.

The Cush wrote: »

There are also a few Saorview TVs with a built in free-to-air satellite tuner, Walker and Samsung (model nos. ending with UXXU) come to mind.

Thanks for that - so these TVs would do the job I'm talking about - pick up UK channels as well as Saorview? Do I need a satellite dish with them?

If I def need a dish with one of these combi boxes I think I'll just go with the Saorview TV.

Coylemj - I live in South Connemara, Galway. Along the coast, so nowhere near the border and I may also be in a low lying area - still need to talk to the neighbours.

Sorry if these are sounding like stupid questions - I just haven't kept up with the technology.

Cheers.

selfbuildache

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

If you are buying a new Saorview capable tv (which will provide the Irish channels) and you want UK channels as well, then all you need is a cheap Freesat box and a cheap dish (exactly the same type dish as Sky) and bingo! you have the lot.

How cheap is a cheap Freesat box? And the dish?? Jesus, the 'dish' sounds like another one that's goin to confuse the (feeling old) head off me. I bet there's a hundred different types:eek:

Skull Murphy

At your location, you'll need a dish to receive UK channels. The Galway coast seems to be served by Saorview transmitters, if the coverage map is to be believed.

Ronnie Raygun

selfbuildache wrote: »

... And the dish?? Jesus, the 'dish' sounds like another one that's goin to confuse the (feeling old) head off me. I bet there's a hundred different types:eek:

Since you're out on the west coast, selecting a dish might require a bit more thought than for other parts of the country. You have to take the wind & the salty air into consideration & maybe allow some extra signal margin: you might need something bigger & tougher than the typical zone 2 Sky dish & its mounting.

selfbuildache

Thanks. If so, I'll go back to my original plan of 'just' the Saorview. (A big step from nothing!)

Ronnie Raygun

I'd try not to fall into the brandname trap, the "Saor" this or "Free" that: there are other options that would lead to a more integrated (& cheaper) solution, but probably only if you haven't been spoiled by the likes of Sky.

selfbuildache

Ronnie Raygun - I'm coming from nothing. Have had no TV at all for the last year and am happy now to go with the channels offered by Saorview. But that's why I'm on here - wondering what the other, non-subscription, services are. I'm lead to believe at this stage though, that to get any more than the Irish channels I'm going to need a dish which I'd hoped to avoid. Still have to talk to some neighbours though and they might be able to shed some light...

Peter Rhea

Do you have any kind of tv set? If so, is it a fairly recent model, say the last 3 or 4 years?

selfbuildache

Eh...I think so. Have a set. Not sure how old.

Peter Rhea

There's a chance your tv might be capable of decoding the Saorview signal, but only if it's a relatively recent model with a digital tuner. Post the make & model no. if you think it's worth looking into.

selfbuildache

It's a 'Bush' something or other. Definitely over 4 years old.

byte

If it's Bush, then nearly definitely no Saorview (no harm in testing it first, though I've not seen one yet of that vintage have MPEG4).

You could probably just get a new Saorview compatible TV and aerial done for now, and maybe at a later date get a dish and Freesat box for UK channels like BBC, etc. if you so wish.

coylemj

OP, look at the TV and see if it has a SCART socket, it almost certainly does (originally for VCR) and if it does then you can connect up a Saorview set top box but I'd say buying a set top box would be a waste of money when you're probably going to buy a new TV.

RTE2 is in HD on Saorview, this is a good reason to buy a Saorview HD TV as you'll then be able to watch Galway beat Kilkenny in the hurling final in HD if you get your setup organised in the next couple of weeks

Given your location, it's almost certain that you will not be able to get UK Freeview with any kind of aerial, you'll need a dish for Freesat.

You mentioned at the start that you'd like to install the aerial in the attic, whether that's feasible depends on the strength of the signal. I can see three relay stations in Co. Galway: Tonabrackey (0.25 kW) which is just outside Galway city off the Oughterard road and which probably won't reach you because of the low power, then there's Clifden (5 kW) and Costello (Casla) near Rossaveel (2.5 kW). Which transmitter does the Saorview coverage map claim is servicing your area?

selfbuildache

Thanks for all the replies. It's simplified things really. I had planned on buying a new TV anyway, as the saorview box was going to cost at least €50. So with the new TV and a decent aerial (I've been looking them up since getting these replies) I think we'll be good to go. It was really only if I could get a 'combi' box to supply UK channels that i'd have stayed with an old set. Getting a dish just adds expense I don't have and I think the Irish channels will be more than enough given the base we're starting from!

coylemj - it's the Casla transmitter serving my area.

coylemj

selfbuildache wrote: »

coylemj - it's the Casla transmitter serving my area.

The Casla Saorview signal is channel 47 so buy a Group B aerial. You can try that in the attic, it will give you a better chance of getting a decent signal than a wideband. Do not buy a wideband if you're going to install it in the attic, you will be compromising on two fronts and probably will not get a decent signal.

You may like to read this... http://www.aerialsandtv.com/loftaerials.html

Your aerial needs to be aligned vertically as in the picture below...

selfbuildache

Thanks coylemj, I've read through the link you sent. But I'm reading that Casla is channel 45, not 47?
So, if not going for a wideband, then nothing on this link is of use? http://www.tvtrade.ie/tv-and-radio-aerials/uhf-aerials.html (Thanks The Cush)

buy a Group B aerial

Do you mean a group B Transmitter? (Just getting this from the link you sent!) Do shops know anything about this? I was in a couple in the last few days and they basically just showed me generic but high gain aerials - no mention of 'widebands' or 'groups'!?

Not sure where to look now...

Anyone any suggestions as to where I can get a suitable aerial??
(Heading out to buy a TV now though!)

selfbuildache

Can I be cheeky and ask people which of these 2 TVs
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5299232.htm
http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-12-DI3283&pages=&prod=DI3283&brands=DIGIHOME&image=

ye'd go for? Price is the biggest factor and I can't find anything else this size for less. 26" also an option if these are both crap.

(Appreciate this is off topic and may not be of interest to previous posters so don't want to abuse the help I've got already! Aerial info is more valuable.)

Thanks

coylemj

selfbuildache wrote: »

Thanks coylemj, I've read through the link you sent. But I'm reading that Casla is channel 45, not 47?
So, if not going for a wideband, then nothing on this link is of use? http://www.tvtrade.ie/tv-and-radio-aerials/uhf-aerials.html (Thanks The Cush)

Sorry, I misread the frequency sheet, it is 45 but that's still Group B.

There is a Group B aerial on that webpage, it costs €9.95 and would be worth trying. Don't forget that the spikes need to be aligned vertically.

However it has the look of a cheap contract aerial, I'd be more inclined to try a yagi like this one...

http://cpcireland.farnell.com/blake-uk/dmx10b/aerial-high-gain-group-b/dp/AP02227

selfbuildache wrote: »

Do you mean a group B Transmitter? (Just getting this from the link you sent!) Do shops know anything about this? I was in a couple in the last few days and they basically just showed me generic but high gain aerials - no mention of 'widebands' or 'groups'!?

No, I meant a Group B aerial. The Cush and others know more about this but basically if you are only chasing one UHF channel, you are better off buying an aerial that is designed for a subset of the UHF TV spectrum which includes that channel, in your case that means you should buy a Group B aerial. The alternative is that you buy a 'one size fits all' aerial (aka wideband).

Aerial groups explained here.. http://www.aerialsandtv.com/aerials.html#aerialgroups

If you wanted to erect one aerial to pickup multiple transmitters from the same direction or if the signal is so strong that it isn't really an issue then you'd buy a wideband. As you want to try the aerial in the attic first, I'd strongly recommend that you buy a group aerial.

Some shops know about group aerials, others know toss all, except to claim that all of the aerials they sell are 'high gain' which is pretty meaningless. And if they only stock widebands, they have a vested interest in rubbishing the concept of group aerials.

selfbuildache

selfbuildache wrote: »

Thanks coylemj, I've read through the link you sent. But I'm reading that Casla is channel 45, not 47?
So, if not going for a wideband, then nothing on this link is of use? http://www.tvtrade.ie/tv-and-radio-aerials/uhf-aerials.html (Thanks The Cush)


Do you mean a group B Transmitter? (Just getting this from the link you sent!) Do shops know anything about this? I was in a couple in the last few days and they basically just showed me generic but high gain aerials - no mention of 'widebands' or 'groups'!?

Not sure where to look now...

Anyone any suggestions as to where I can get a suitable aerial??
(Heading out to buy a TV now though!)

The aerial group refers to the frequency band that the aerial is tuned to receive, or in other words the channels (not to be confused with the programme name) it will pick up the best, different transmitters use different channels to broadcast the programmes.

Any local aerial installer should have a stock of suitable aerials.

coylemj

selfbuildache wrote: »

Can I be cheeky and ask people which of these 2 TVs
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5299232.htm
http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-12-DI3283&pages=&prod=DI3283&brands=DIGIHOME&image=

ye'd go for?

Will only comment on two features...

1. They are both 720p 'HD Ready'. At this stage you really need to be looking at full HD 1080p.

2. The Argos model has only one HDMI socket which I'd avoid. You will need one HDMI for a DVD/Blu-Ray player and the kids will eventually want to connect a Playstation or xBox via HDMI so you will need at least 2 x HDMI.

Peter Rhea

selfbuildache wrote: »

Can I be cheeky and ask people which of these 2 TVs
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5299232.htm
http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-12-DI3283&pages=&prod=DI3283&brands=DIGIHOME&image=

How do they compare to the one you already have? If the Saorview tuner is the only real difference, I think I'd go for the entertainment value provided by a combi satellite/terrestrial receiver used along with the old tv.

JonathonS

coylemj wrote: »

Will only comment on two features...

1. They are both 720p 'HD Ready'. At this stage you really need to be looking at full HD 1080p.

2. The Argos model has only one HDMI socket which I'd avoid. You will need one HDMI for a DVD/Blu-Ray player and the kids will eventually want to connect a Playstation or xBox via HDMI so you will need at least 2 x HDMI.

On a 32in set it is usually difficult to see the difference between 720p and 1080p.
Of these 2 I would go for the Digihome with 2 x HDMI. The 32in LG on special offer in Power City at 299 is better again if you can manage to come up with the 50 euro extra. If not then go with the Digihome. If you want to see the TV before you buy then DID, Cunniffes or Peter Murphy in Galway city will have something very similar at the same sort of price.

selfbuildache

Oh jesus, I think ignorance is better than a small bit of info without really knowing what you're talking about.
So, I've just called approx 6 aerial sellers as per dolanbaker

Any local aerial installer should have a stock of suitable aerials.

As per instructions here, I ask for my Group B aerial:
1st guy says he has a Group B aerial but wants to know what size. Me:stumped.
So he sends me on to
2nd Guy and THEY want to know what COLOUR - yellow,green or red and know nothing about GROUPS. But they tell me BLACK will actually suit me as it covers 'everything in my area'.(!!) (Think Black means wideband.)
3rd + 4th had nothing.
5th told me he might have a Group B aerial but it'd have a lot of dust on it as everyone gets wideband now. He didn't have any when he checked.

I'm giving up for now as I'm boggly-eyed. Heading out for a full HD telly! (Thanks coylemj!)

Peter Rhea - I think we'll go with getting a new TV. I'll look into a combi+satellite at a later date. (If the aerial is anything to go by I'll need some time!)

Thanks all for the education so far!

selfbuildache

JonathonS wrote: »

On a 32in set it is usually difficult to see the difference between 720p and 1080p.
Of these 2 I would go for the Digihome with 2 x HDMI. The 32in LG on special offer in Power City at 299 is better again if you can manage to come up with the 50 euro extra. If not then go with the Digihome. If you want to see the TV before you buy then DID, Cunniffes or Peter Murphy in Galway city will have something very similar at the same sort of price.

Thanks! I'm in Dublin at the moment and going to run down to a local Powercity so I'll look at both of these.

Ronnie Raygun

I don't know that area, but purely from looking at the map of the Casla site's service area, I would think you would have no problem actually seeing the 230 ft. mast, from any of the coastal locations anyway, so unless you have trees or something in the way, you shouldn't be struggling for signal strength.

A group B aerial would be better at rejecting interference from future 4G mobile services, though, & that's something else to consider.

All bets are off though, when you put the aerial in the attic: if it has to "look" through any kind of metallic material, you won't get any signal at all.

coylemj

Try if at all possible to get a full HD TV. LG and Samsung are the best makes. Sony is also up there but you're paying more cash for the same quality.

selfbuildache wrote: »

As per instructions here, I ask for my Group B aerial:
1st guy says he has a Group B aerial but wants to know what size. Me:stumped.
So he sends me on to
2nd Guy and THEY want to know what COLOUR - yellow,green or red and know nothing about GROUPS. But they tell me BLACK will actually suit me as it covers 'everything in my area'.(!!) (Think Black means wideband.)
3rd + 4th had nothing.
5th told me he might have a Group B aerial but it'd have a lot of dust on it as everyone gets wideband now. He didn't have any when he checked.

1st guy has a point. If you were employing him to erect the aerial he would probably come out with kit to measure the strength of the signal at your house and would be able to advice whether you needed a high-gain or 'normal' aerial.

2nd guy doesn't know sh1t if he doesn't know that a Group B is yellow.

3rd and 4th guys probably sell widebands to everyone, saves them having to keep separate stock.

5th guy is in the same boat. When he says that 'everyone gets wideband', what he's really saying is that he only installs widebands, it doesn't mean that it is the right aerial for everyone.

The Cush

selfbuildache wrote: »

Oh jesus, I think ignorance is better than a small bit of info without really knowing what you're talking about.
So, I've just called approx 6 aerial sellers as per dolanbaker

...

I'm giving up for now as I'm boggly-eyed. Heading out for a full HD telly!

Some online retailers
http://www.tvtrade.ie/tv-and-radio-aerials/uhf-aerials.html
http://www.satellitetv.ie/saorview_rte_aerials/group_b_aerial
http://cpcireland.farnell.com/outdoor-radio-tv_tv

The Cush

coylemj wrote: »

2nd guy doesn't know sh1t if he doesn't know that a Group B is yellow.

3rd and 4th guys probably sell widebands to everyone, saves them having to keep separate stock.

5th guy is in the same boat. When he says that 'everyone gets wideband', what he's really saying is that he only installs widebands, it doesn't mean that it is the right aerial for everyone.

The above rings a bell about a certain well known TV and satellite retail outlet in Limerick, a few years ago I went in one morning looking for a Group B aerial for Woodcock Hill (DTT Ch 47) - was asked what colour tip it was. I didn't know the aerial colours at the time but I remembered the list of RTÉ Analogue frequencies included the aerial groupings and colours. He downloaded the document from the internet and said it was very useful. I left with my yellow tip Group B aerial.

On a more recent occasion I went in to get a Group A for Mullaghanish and was told that the different group aerials were no longer manufactured and only wideband aerial were available now. Naturally I left the shop that day without an aerial, haven't purchased one there since.

selfbuildache

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

I don't know that area, but purely from looking at the map of the Casla site's service area, I would think you would have no problem actually seeing the 230 ft. mast, from any of the coastal locations anyway, so unless you have trees or something in the way, you shouldn't be struggling for signal strength.

All bets are off though, when you put the aerial in the attic: if it has to "look" through any kind of metallic material, you won't get any signal at all.

I'll be talking to the neighbours once I get back. I don't think there'll be a problem. We're only a couple of miles from the transmitter. Not sure if you can see it though. Will check.
There's no metallic material in the way. Thanks.

coylemj:

1st guy has a point. If you were employing him to erect the aerial he would probably come out with kit to measure the strength of the signal at your house and would be able to advice whether you needed a high-gain or 'normal' aerial.

2nd guy doesn't know sh1t if he doesn't know that a Group B is yellow.

Exactly what my under-educated brain thought. 1st guy was the only one who seemed to understand what I wanted.
2nd guy indeed did not seem to know sh1t. I kind've copped myself that the colours might correspond to letters but on saying this to him he recommended RED, at a push, as he actually wanted me to go with BLACK:eek:

I will never trust sales guys again. (I never do with things I know something about but things I know nothing about....well, this has been yet another education:rolleyes:)

The cush: Thank you. I will look them up tomorrow.

Thanks all, a lot, for the input and education. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get something. Will let ye know what I get and also how well it works!

Peter Rhea

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

I don't know that area, but purely from looking at the map of the Casla site's service area, I would think you would have no problem actually seeing the 230 ft. mast . . .

From aerial photos, it would appear to be a self-supporting tower, transmitting aerial 68 metres AGL according to comreg technical parameters.

selfbuildache

Peter Rhea wrote: »

From aerial photos, it would appear to be a self-supporting tower, transmitting aerial 68 metres AGL according to comreg technical parameters.

I presume that's good?:o

coylemj

selfbuildache wrote: »

I presume that's good?:o

What's more important is that it's a 2.5 kW transmitter which is ten times more powerful than Tonabrockey which covers Galway city so if you're only a couple of miles from Casla you should get away with an attic aerial. You might even manage with an indoor aerial but if the house is wired, try a group B in the attic.

It's no big deal if you can't actually see the transmitter, what's important is that there are no mountains between you and it.

selfbuildache

coylemj - that all sounds very positive. There are no mountains near me. I've gone and ordered the cheaper aerial from the cush's previous list:
http://www.tvtrade.ie/tv-and-radio-a...f-aerials.html
which is still (I think) a better aerial than the wideband I bought, then returned after reading here, from a city shop.

Also bought a HD (ready! sorry! I was doomed once I walked in there and saw all these TVs looking exactly the same as each other but with different prices! This is the base I was coming from:D)
I bought up from the one i had posted as it actually only has 1 HDMI and I at least knew I was looking for more than 2 of those - again thanks to Boards.
http://www.powercity.ie/?par=10-12-DI3283&pages=&prod=DI3283&brands=DIGIHOME&image=
(Despite written specs it only has 1 HDMI!)

Many many thanks for the education. This board helped us build our house and continues to give invaluable advice and to open my eyes!
I'll let ye know how I get on with the (SELF) installation.

selfbuildache

Just a quick update to let ye know that I'm connected up successfully, thanks to all your help!
Took a few goes as there were quite a few cables in the attic (and of course, none of them marked) and the bloody 'cable'(?) behind the socket, in the sitting room hadn't been connected but we got there and what a thing of beauty the TV is... (a lot for me to admit - I've resisted its pull for years.)

Many, many thanks for all the advice. I'm delighted to have done it myself but couldn't have done it without Boards.

(Now, on to Curtains and Doors sections....)