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brain washing on tv.

  • 22-08-2012 8:59pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭


    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/superscrimpers

    too poor because of tax breaks for the rich, have no fear, superscrimpers explains how you can cook a boot and still say you've had steak!! and lets not forget that this allows those who can afford it to buy an extra steak!!

    reminds me of this video


    the ct is that rather than expose the greedy rich corrupt, they brainwash the poor into thinking that they should be happy with recycled goods, but don't mention that when demand for recycled goods increases so will the prices and the profit margin.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    This must be the worst CT's I've seen here yet, and thats saying something!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    This must be the worst CT's I've seen here yet, and thats saying something!

    Why?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Why?

    A TV programme giving tips on how to save money is part of a conspiracy to brain wash the poor? Really?

    Are Aldi and Lidl are in on it too with there relativley cheap products? Instead of buying a crate of beer at a discount should I demand to pay the full price for each individual bottle? Would I really be sticking it to the man if I went around looking for the dearest place to do my shopping?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    This must be the worst CT's I've seen here yet, and thats saying something!
    that must be the worst comment i've seen here, and mind you i've argued with some one claiming that you need to check for unicorns if you want to check for explosives in regards to a terrorist attack.

    if you think it is bad, try debating it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    A TV programme giving tips on how to save money is part of a conspiracy to brain wash the poor? Really?

    You're clutching at or referencing the OP title to make your strawmanish point. If the title is a bit sensationalist, there you go. You do what you can to arouse a response.
    It depends on what you consider brainwashing to be. To some it is the literal meaning. To others it can have a more subtle meaning.

    So let's assume that the subject is a bit more nuanced than that for arguments sake. Would you be prepared to entertain the notion that TV companies don't alot as much of their programming time to certain issues as they should? Rather they pander to the interests of their owners and major shareholders?

    It's not an unrealistic concept, nevermind the "worst ct ever".


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    A TV programme giving tips on how to save money is part of a conspiracy to brain wash the poor? Really?
    you've obviously watched it right? oh wait you haven't!!

    well that puts your comment in perspective ...

    Gee Bag wrote: »
    Are Aldi and Lidl are in on it too with there relativley cheap products? Instead of buying a crate of beer at a discount should I demand to pay the full price for each individual bottle? Would I really be sticking it to the man if I went around looking for the dearest place to do my shopping?

    it's not a money saving programme it is a survival guide for poor people, as though the problem is not caused by gross inequalities.
    perhaps you did not get the point in the youtube video ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    You're clutching at or referencing the OP title to make your strawmanish point. If the title is a bit sensationalist, there you go. You do what you can to arouse a response.

    The title of the thread isn't really that misleading. The OP is trying to contend that the programme in question is part of a subtle campaign to indoctrinate the less well off into being happy with their lot. I honestly believe that to be one of the dumbest attempts at a CT I've seen here. The embedded video bears no relation to the text of the thread or title.
    It depends on what you consider brainwashing to be. To some it is the literal meaning. To others it can have a more subtle meaning.

    I take brainwashing to mean the deliberate attempt to totally subvert an individuals rational descision making process (my own on the spot definition, probably not perfect). I would contend that all advertising is an attempt to manipulate the individual, but I would stop short of calling it brain washing.

    To be quite honest I think a lot of the posters in the CT forum are brainwashed into believing every single CT on the net depite the complete irrationality of many of them.
    So let's assume that the subject is a bit more nuanced than that for arguments sake. Would you be prepared to entertain the notion that TV companies don't alot as much of their programming time to certain issues as they should? Rather they pander to the interests of their owners and major shareholders?

    I don't really watch that much TV other than the news, docs and the odd series (HBO stuff, drama, etc). I would agree whole heartedly that some broadcasters put on utter rubbish, RTE being an excellent example of a sh1te public broadcaster, BBC being an example of an excellent one, especially BBC2, 3 and 4.

    Private TV companies are a different kettle of fish. Their sole purpose is to make a profit. They do this by finding a niche in the market and giving the public what they want. Channel 4 has undoubtedly been dumbed down in the last few years with sensationalist muck. However, they still make some excellent programmes such as This World, Time Team, Historical docs, etc. I also think C4 news is by far the most in depth, impartial news on any television station.

    I haven't seen the programme in question. <edit; I realised that I have actually seen it before, it just didn't make a lasting impression> I'm presuming its the flipside of the coin that gave us all the property porn like grand Designs, etc, during the boom. Horses for courses and all that.

    How on earth it is supposed to be part of some conspiracy is beyond me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    davoxx wrote: »
    perhaps you did not get the point in the youtube video ...

    Ithe youtube video you posted bears no relation to either the text of your post or the programme you cited.
    it's not a money saving programme it is a survival guide for poor people, as though the problem is not caused by gross inequalities

    I thought i hadn't seen this show before but I have, its a load of sh1te, giving tips on saving a few quid is something you do yourself with your 200+ posts in the bargain alerts forum

    Thanks for pointing out that individual wealth is caused by inequalities, I would never have known that.

    survival guide for poor people
    As for this gem of student nonsense, are you by any chance a memebr of the socialist workers party?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    The title of the thread isn't really that misleading. The OP is trying to contend that the programme in question is part of a subtle campaign to indoctrinate the less well off into being happy with their lot. I honestly believe that to be one of the dumbest attempts at a CT I've seen here. The embedded video bears no relation to the text of the thread or title.

    The video is a wonderful example of the type of thing we're talking about here. The free market fanboys of pure capitlalism love to hold up Latvia as a success story, just as they attempted to do with Chile and other places.
    I take brainwashing to mean the deliberate attempt to totally subvert an individuals rational descision making process (my own on the spot definition, probably not perfect). I would contend that all advertising is an attempt to manipulate the individual, but I would stop short of calling it brain washing.

    Ok, glad we've cleared that up. So we're agreed then. TV companies belching out this garbage while ignoring other issues is brainwashing.;)
    To be quite honest I think a lot of the posters in the CT forum are brainwashed into believing every single CT on the net depite the complete irrationality of many of them.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread in fairness. "Most CTs are bull**** therefore this one is bull****. That's not a rational way to approach this imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    The video is a wonderful example of the type of thing we're talking about here. The free market fanboys of pure capitlalism love to hold up Latvia as a success story, just as they attempted to do with Chile and other places.

    I'm well aware of the poster boy for austerity nonsense. why? because I'm from Ireland!
    Ok, glad we've cleared that up. So we're agreed then. TV companies belching out this garbage while ignoring other issues is brainwashing.;)

    Sorry, thats not what I said and you well know it. Dumb TV shows are not brainwashing, there just dumb TV shows. Theres nothing wrong with a little escapism as long as it doesn't become the sole thing to live for.
    This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread in fairness. "Most CTs are bull**** therefore this one is bull****. That's not a rational way to approach this imo

    Again your twisting my words, the point I was making that a lot of regular users of this forum think they are free thinkers while blindly accepting erery CT on the go. It wasn't a comment specific to the issue being discussed here, it was a general comment about brainwashing.

    Sorry, if the points I was making where too subtle for you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭Daithi 1


    davoxx wrote: »
    that must be the worst comment i've seen here, and mind you i've argued with some one claiming that you need to check for unicorns if you want to check for explosives in regards to a terrorist attack.

    if you think it is bad, try debating it?


    Is unicorn secret code for d1ckhead ? ;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    As for this gem of student nonsense, are you by any chance a memebr of the socialist workers party?
    yes, i am, how did you know that i, president obama, am a member of the socialist workers party of ireland? how did you guess? it's wasn't an educated guess was it? but wait ...

    haha, i am actually a pure capitalist, i just hate brain washing, so hence i posted this ct ...

    while in fact i am actually your suppressed personality that is trying to tell you to wake up and escape the martix ...

    now that we've established that who i am and which party belong to is irrelevant to the ct i posted, we've also established that your opinions are irreverent to the facts at hand.

    i would explain to you the points mentioned in the you tube video which parodies the fact that the poor should learn to cope with the cuts that have been pushed upon despite not being responsible for the 'requirement' for cuts, but i have a feeling i'm wasting my time.
    (i put requirement in quotes as there were other options)

    and just to point out it is not my ct, it was pointed out to me that there have been a lot of media coverage of how to cut costs as if that is the answer.
    as well as finger pointing regarding washed diesel and black market cigarettes as though the financial crisis sudden was caused by these.

    so in summary, if all you are going to post is "worst ct ever!!" for a plausible ct, keep that opinion to yourself and save us all the trouble.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Daithi 1 wrote: »
    Is unicorn secret code for d1ckhead ? ;)
    it might be ... people who remember that debate will know for certain :D

    (i wish it were but alas it is not)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    Again your twisting my words, the point I was making that a lot of regular users of this forum think they are free thinkers while blindly accepting erery CT on the go.

    A lot of the regular posters of this forum rarara..

    No they ****ing don't. Twisting your words my arse. A lot of posters on this forum just come here to hopefully discuss things without being pigeonholed. Get over yourself and look at the title of the forum. It's a theory forum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    A lot of the regular posters of this forum rarara..

    No they ****ing don't. Twisting your words my arse. A lot of posters on this forum just come here to hopefully discuss things without being pigeonholed. Get over yourself and look at the title of the forum. It's a theory forum.

    I know what it is, but some of the theories here are just daft. The recent Olympics false flag thread being a fine example, along with this thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    davoxx wrote: »
    yes, i am, how did you know that i president obama am a member of the socialist workers party of ireland? how did you guess? it's wasn't an educated guess was it? but wait ...

    haha, i am actually a pure capitalist, i just hate brain washing, so hence i posted this ct ...

    while in fact i am actually your suppressed personality that is trying to tell you to wake up and escape the martix ...

    now that we've established that who i am and which party belong to is irrelevant to the ct i posted, we've also established that your opinions are irreverent to the facts at hand.

    i would explain to you the points mentioned in the you tube video which parodies the fact that the poor should learn to cope with the cuts that have been pushed upon despite not being responsible for the 'requirement' for cuts, but i have a feeling i'm wasting my time.
    (i put requirement in quotes as there were other options)

    and just to point out it is not my ct, it was pointed out to me that there have been a lot of media coverage of how to cut costs as if that is the answer.
    as well as finger pointing regarding washed diesel and black market cigarettes as though the financial crisis sudden was caused by these.

    so in summary, if all you are going to post is "worst ct ever!!" for a plausible ct, keep that opinion to yourself and save us all the trouble.

    The reason I asked is becuase of the utter incoherence of the post. i.e., like all your posts in this thread (particularly the one quoted above) it just does not make any sense.

    The youtube video does not bear any relation to your attempt to form a CT. If you could make some kind of effort to explain that would be much appreciated.........


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    I know what it is, but some of the theories here are just daft. The recent Olympics false flag thread being a fine example, along with this thread.

    rarara


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    rarara

    That the best you can come up with?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    The reason I asked is becuase of the utter incoherence of your posts. i.e., like all your posts in this thread it just does not make any sense.

    The youtube video does not bear any relation to your attempt to form a CT. If you could make some kind of effort to explain that would be much appreciated.........
    you didn't ask, you mocked. i corrected you and now you've posted an excuse.

    if you really can not follow what was being said, here is my reply: http://bulletproofpresentations.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/dilbert-5-17-12.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    davoxx wrote: »
    you didn't ask, you mocked. i corrected you and now you've posted an excuse.

    if you really can not follow what was being said, here is my reply:

    Aw sorry if I hurt your ickle feelings,

    I haven't posted any excuse, I started out by stating that I thought your theory was rubbish. I have consistently stated that I can not follow the thread of your argument. You have not posted any relevant links to back up tour wild claims, therefor I can only deduce that your argument is bollocks.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    heh if you want outrageous Cts just check my earlier foray into the Ct world lol


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    Aw sorry if I hurt your ickle feelings,

    I haven't posted any excuse, I started out by stating that I thought your theory was rubbish. I have consistently stated that I can not follow the thread of your argument. You have not posted any relevant links to back up tour wild claims, therefor I can only deduce that your argument is bollocks.
    don't be like that, you'll make me cry ... excuses do that to me.

    i claim that you are a human being, i shall not provide anything to back up that 'wild' claim. therefore you can only deduce that my claim is bollocks ... :rolleyes:

    and the link to the website was an example to back up the claim (it's not my claim, i do not hold ownership or exclusivity rights).


  • Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    I take brainwashing to mean the deliberate attempt to totally subvert an individuals rational descision making process (my own on the spot definition, probably not perfect). I would contend that all advertising is an attempt to manipulate the individual, but I would stop short of calling it brain washing.

    To be quite honest I think a lot of the posters in the CT forum are brainwashed into believing every single CT on the net depite the complete irrationality of many of them.
    Given the context your pavlovian response made me :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Gee bag you must know when the word brainwashed was used, it was not to insinuate actual brainwashing, but more of a slang word for the thread title to abbreviate.
    Otherwise it might have looked like
    "TV programming,used to reinforce a social coercion to accept one lot at the bottom of the economical ladder" or something like that, if you wanted a perfect title.

    You must see it was not ment literally, and if so the op did not understand the meaning of the word used, but we all know the intention behind the use of the word..
    We are arguing semantics imo.

    As for the theory on that show.
    Im not sure about it myself.
    I think its a chicken or the egg situation there.
    Most likely a compensation by the programming boards to accomadate people in this situation.
    But it would serve as a reinforcement among other shows that we are helpless and should work harder instead of fix the issue.
    So i fall in the middle on this one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Here the thing lads,when you claim a tv show which is struggling to get viewers in the first place is a conspiracy to keep the poor poor it does come across as more paranoid than some of the other theories.

    Its stuff like this that does kinda give CTer's a bad name because they find a very very unlikely reason for something and make it part of some masterplan.

    Yes its a discussion forum but some things dont need to be discussed.
    How many people actually believe that this theory is plausible?

    Theres alot of programmes out there that you could say are brainwashing us if you really want to make some very loose connections,Superscrimpers is not one of those.
    Please put up a poll to see who believes this could be very plausible(Not trying to make fun of people who genuinely believe it but please be honest if there is a poll done)
    And not a poll that gives wishy washy answers,ask do you think this is the reason for the show,not is it plausible.

    I think this is just someone trying too hard to be ahead of the curve and spotting things in the hope people see tham as someone who is more aware at whats going on
    (THIS POST ISNT TRYING TO BE CONFRONTATIONAL)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    seannash wrote: »
    Here the thing lads,when you claim a tv show which is struggling to get viewers in the first place is a conspiracy to keep the poor poor it does come across as more paranoid than some of the other theories.

    Its stuff like this that does kinda give CTer's a bad name because they find a very very unlikely reason for something and make it part of some masterplan.

    I hear what you're saying. In saying that though, words like evil and masterplan and control are bandied around by many so-called skeptics here in an attempt to rubbish threads like these.
    As said before, these things are more subtle and nuanced than that. It's a known fact that television is the most powerful propaganda tool ever created.

    Chances are that if you watch Sky News or Fox on a regular basis, that you might come around to the idea that Rupert Murdochs worldview is quite reasonable. That oil wars and tax cuts for the rich and Conservatives and Republicans ruling the globe aint such a bad idea after all. That harsh austerity is a necessary thing and sure **** like that happens in capitalism and that's that.

    When's the last time you saw a good documentary on mainstream channels about the root causes of the recession for instance? Or a critical view on the wars in the Middle East?
    Or food speculation by the major investment banks that condemn millions to poverty and hunger?
    Or the ever-increasing rise of derivatives, naked credit default swaps and CDO's that have already borked the worldwide economy?
    Or tax havens?
    Or sweatshops?
    Or the destruction of unions and collective bargaining worldwide?

    But hey don't let me get in the way of some of you dropping by to call "paranoid" at the conspiracy theory nutjobs who reckon that TV may have some sort of effect in obscuring these issues..;)
    (THIS POST ISNT TRYING TO BE CONFRONTATIONAL)

    Nor is mine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash



    When's the last time you saw a good documentary on mainstream channels about the root causes of the recession for instance? Or a critical view on the wars in the Middle East?
    Or food speculation by the major investment banks that condemn millions to poverty and hunger?
    Or the ever-increasing rise of derivatives, naked credit default swaps and CDO's that have already borked the worldwide economy?
    Or tax havens?
    Or sweatshops?
    Or the destruction of unions and collective bargaining worldwide?
    Yep your dead right and the reason is because the tv channels are businesses.they try and make or buy programmes that the general public will watch so that they can sell advertising slots.

    those topics listed above unfortunately wouldn't be of interest to the general public and it has nothing got to do with any dumbing down.it simply just simply doesn't make for good viewing for most people.

    It would be a bit like asking a bakery to make a dog turd in a bap because you and one other person like them.its not commercially viable for them to make it for such a very very niche market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash



    But hey don't let me get in the way of some of you dropping by to call "paranoid" at the conspiracy theory nutjobs who reckon that TV may have some sort of effect in obscuring these issues..;)


    Do you genuinely believe that this programme superscrimpers is one such tv show obscuring these issues.
    I'd be interested in seeing a poll with a yes or no answer as to whether this tv show has a sinister method behind it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭Channel Zero


    seannash wrote: »
    Yep your dead right and the reason is because the tv channels are businesses.they try and make or buy programmes that the general public will watch so that they can sell advertising slots.

    those topics listed above unfortunately wouldn't be of interest to the general public and it has nothing got to do with any dumbing down.it simply just simply doesn't make for good viewing for most people.

    True enough. They're businesses first and foremost. And most including myself sometimes just want to kick back in front of of the box and be entertained.
    TV companies are under no obligation to educate or inform. They're now commercial enterprises. And that's their inherrent weakness in this regard i suppose. They're entertainment, but at the end of the day they're a hopeless source of information about the important issues.

    But very powerful opinion shaping tools, along with newspapers. That's why Tony Blair felt it necessary to travel to the other side of the world for a meeting with Murdoch, presumably to run some of his policies by him for approval or rejection.
    You only had to look at the Levinson enquiry hearings to get an inkling as to who was calling the shots in that particular relationship.
    seannash wrote: »
    Do you genuinely believe that this programme superscrimpers is one such tv show obscuring these issues.

    Maybe not on its own no. Maybe it's a small part of the process though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that when people discovered how to make television they started planning how they could use it to manipulate other people.
    There is a really good black and white film about marijuana that is totally propoganda.
    My memory is telling me tobaco road for some reason but cant rmemeber if that wa sit or something else.
    I just remember it was very old and a good example of how long ago they were using tv to influence the masses.
    Also it would not surpise me if that film coincided with political moves at the time too.

    Consider how much repsect tv now has when you look at how much is spent on advertising.
    For a person/group controling a whole continent/country television is of extreme importance.
    Somethign as small as that show might not seem like anything much at first glance.But i fall in the middle on this CT because i know how important tv is to those in power.

    I did some digging on american media and found some interesting links between the Israeli prime minister or ex prime minister Netanyahu?
    And some media moguls and directors in the states.just as a small example.
    My point is i have seen reason to believe there is a very good chance tv programming for the nations of the world is very much under the thumb of big business and politics.
    If thats the case then this Ct also falls under that umbrella.

    I do agree it seems irrational and sensationalist to discuss this one program when the bigger Ct is overshadowing it,regarding tv programming.
    But i cant discount this show either for these reasons.

    I suppose you can say alot of other stuff would be the same, right down to sports.Anythignt hat is a distraction could be included which does not leave much and begs the question where is the line drawn between entertainment and control.

    Id say there is no line.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Tv is used for brainwashing. Period. Or should i say Behavioural Influence?
    Here is one place set up for the job:
    http://www.scl.cc/
    SCL Behavioural is specialist in providing behavioural research methodology to the commercial worlds of advertising and marketing.
    SCL Defence is a leading practitioner in behavioural conflict resolution - Information Operations or PSYOP (psychological warfare)
    SCL Elections has an unrivalled track record in election campaign management. We have never lost an election campaign, which we have managed.
    SCL Social is a behavioural research agency that seeks to replace creativity with science in addressing communication campaigns that really matter.
    Every bit of media on tv has a job to do, in my opinion. Even the totally dumb programmes on tv keep people busy watching something.
    And it starts at an early age too. I had to stop my kid from watching a certain cartoon with the name "ben" and "ten" in it. My kid started acting up big time about going to school and it was a constant problem for a while until i found out that this "ben" character can't stand school and is always out of it or doing badly in it etc. Teachers are aliens etc. All that kind of "Behavioural Influence" or whatever you like to call it.

    So, to say tv isn't a "brainwashing" tool is either a lie by a schill or a genuine mistake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Plates


    I'll admit that I haven't read every post on this thread so apologies if this question was already asked ande answered. Do any supporters of this theory have any suggestions as to what can be done to make a change?

    Seems to me like a lot of "look at this", "listen to me". There seems to be a significant amount of scepticism on this forum - which isn't too surprising. Rather than looking for a conspiracy around every corner - you might be better served focusing on the ones you think are most significant - and build a stronger case for them. Otherwise is just "boy who cried wolf" noise.

    Anyone can post a video / photo / newpaper article and say "I think this is a conspiracy because of x, y, z" and then challenge people to argue why that isn't the case. That type of argument is for school debate classes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    And there was me thinking it was a given! Its like asking me to argue something like "fire will burn you" etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Plates


    Deadly Facts about water (which is what poor people are forced to drink because they can't afford Champagne like the rich bankers and media executives who control water):
    1. Over consumption can cause sweating, nausea and even death!
    2. 100% of all serial killers, rapists, drug dealers and poor people have admitted to drinking water
    3. Water is one of the primary ingredients in herbicides and pesticides
    4. Water is the number 1 cause of drowning
    5. 100% of all people (including poor people) who are exposed to water will die


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    "From birth we take the world as it’s presented on television.  We don't question it and any serious criticism of TV is becoming psychologically impossible in society. Who would suspect getting born into a world where everything around you is a continuous lie? The youth of today are convinced that the experts and personalities on television are the authority of credible information while parents and older generations are foolish with dated ideas.  Children are conditioned to disconnect from what is truly important to their well being and instead focus on mindless trivia, sports, celebrity gossip, and buying an array of material things. They invest their psychological worth in fantasy characters on television while ignoring or even scorning individuals contributing to the betterment of humanity. They are discouraged from getting involved in their local community and often lack the ability to think independently or to resist corruption. As their children's minds are molded by television, there is barely a murmur from the public."

    http://pupaganda.com/originals/Unplug_the_signal_article.html

    Tv is both a godsend and a curse for parents, you have to agree. It gets them out of your hair while you attend to household jobs. But when the time comes to get them off the tv they behave like junkies that need a hit! I see kids at friends houses too and they just stare at the tv with a vacant look, jaw slightly open, not noticing the world around them. Then theres the ads. Sometimes the kids expressions dont even change when the ads come on!

    So, Plates, i must respectfully ignore your water piece above. It is not helpful to the discussion, other than to highlight the fact you disagree with the brainwashing tv theory.
    Which is fine, each to their own and all!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Good points shedweller, i have expressed the same concern about tv with exactly the ame description you gave( jaw hanging opne eyes vacant etc).
    Its like watchign somebody getting brainwashed literally, but we cant say it like that cause people like to jump on that word like we just said jew or something.

    Plates you make a valid point about only discussing it, however what exactly would you expect people to do?

    If you follow this stuff as much as i have you would see quite clearly there are very few solutions that will work.
    Its pretty much too late in my view.

    The type of forums your looking for would be an underground forums discussing ways to assassinate ellites in many aspects of global business and acts of "terrorism" like destroying satelites etc relating to tv.

    The first thing imo that needs to go is the mind control through tv.
    Why do you think people vote and for who?

    If people didnt watch tv and actually researched they would not vote at all.
    This thread topic is only the tip of the iceberg.Beneath the surface is a massive network of strategies to keep people like us busy doing what is expected.
    Read the Lisbon treaty for example, if you want to know whats going on while we are all "asleep".

    I dont join any groups either because i have already tried going to meet ups and all i see is misguided objections and subverted motives.Not solutions.
    If there was a group with solutions it would be shut down fast if it couldnt be subverted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Lads your not really telling us anything we dont already know in relation to tv being used to influence us.
    Thats the whole point of advertising and product placement

    Do you guys really think that when the creators of the show(Endemol)sat down to create this show that they solely wanted it to be a tool for brainwashing people?

    I'm not talking about it being a very small part of an overall plan,do you believe that the sole reason for this show existing is to brainwash or entertain?

    Some shows are just purely entertainment(look at wipeout/countdown/family fortunes for gods sake) this is one of those shows.

    Shedweller I hear what your saying about Kids and the TV but the fault lies with the parents.They have to power to switch off the tv and send them outside to play.Its up to them to police what there kids watch and for how long.I'm sure you can apply your description to the internet too for kids.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Also the kids staring at the screen with there jaws open thing.It happens adults too whenever we see a really good film.
    These cartoons are just as exciting and action packed to a kid as a good action film(insert your own personal favourites) is to an adult.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Fair points, fair points. But i do notice with recent tv shows like Homeland that there is a major bias against Muslims for example. I watched some of it with my wife but the underlying messages (gentiles are amoral adulterous idiots, muslims are dirt, and, yet again, the gentile groups leader was Jewish and morally superior and therefore untouchable) it was pouring out were annoying as hell to me. So i stopped watching it.

    Look at the film Independence Day and see if you can spot the "Christian religion is bad, Jewish religion is good" tone. And look for the bit where they are in area 51 and the aliens are bombing the hell out of them. Everybody is running around like headless chickens while a group of Jewish belief are in a circle, praying. The head of the CIA or something says, "but i'm not Jewish!" to which yer mans dad says "Well, nobodys perfect!"

    Look, i'm all for people having different religious beliefs. Just don't make movies and tv shows about how one is better than the other!

    Bigotry, i think, is the word i'm looking for here. And it is not a one way system either! Shouldn't be anyway.

    By the way, these are just my opinions based on my gut feeling. Of course, somebody recently posted something about gut feelings being mostly inaccurate or poorly based or something.
    Yeah, well, my gut feelings seem to ruffle a few feathers from time to time so i must be near the target, otherwise my posts wouldnt warrant attention!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    shedweller wrote: »
    Fair points, fair points. But i do notice with recent tv shows like Homeland that there is a major bias against Muslims for example. I watched some of it with my wife but the underlying messages (gentiles are amoral adulterous idiots, muslims are dirt, and, yet again, the gentile groups leader was Jewish and morally superior and therefore untouchable) it was pouring out were annoying as hell to me. So i stopped watching it.

    Look at the film Independence Day and see if you can spot the "Christian religion is bad, Jewish religion is good" tone. And look for the bit where they are in area 51 and the aliens are bombing the hell out of them. Everybody is running around like headless chickens while a group of Jewish belief are in a circle, praying. The head of the CIA or something says, "but i'm not Jewish!" to which yer mans dad says "Well, nobodys perfect!"

    Look, i'm all for people having different religious beliefs. Just don't make movies and tv shows about how one is better than the other!

    Bigotry, i think, is the word i'm looking for here. And it is not a one way system either! Shouldn't be anyway.

    By the way, these are just my opinions based on my gut feeling. Of course, somebody recently posted something about gut feelings being mostly inaccurate or poorly based or something.
    Yeah, well, my gut feelings seem to ruffle a few feathers from time to time so i must be near the target, otherwise my posts wouldnt warrant attention!
    Having lived in the States(This doesn't make me an expert) I can tell you that the Jewish people being "the chosen ones" is a very common joke over there.
    Its in plenty of movies and sitcoms(Knocked Up springs to mind where its used aswell).

    I watched homelands and thought it was a great show but I'll admit I dont recall the specifics of what religion they were fighting against(genuinely cant remember)but it didn't spoil my enjoyment of it nor did it turn me against any religion in particular.
    I can appreciate that it was definetly a very current drama in so far as it centred around a very current issue but I can seperate what I see on a tv show and reality even if it is based on something which is taking place in the real world.

    I can see how you might think its geared to make the viewing audience turn against the religion associated with the bad guy but I genuinely dont think people focus in on that stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    American Tv is so dumbed down i can spot subliminals regularly now.
    I made a post about Breaking Bad when they put a Ron Paul picture into that cooking meth book from the guy that was murdered if you ever follow that.
    I froze the video later and posted the frame with his name etc in it.It was flicked through really fast but to me that is just a tiny tiny example of stuff being pushed into peoples unconscious minds.

    I agree that particular show is probably for the most part an idea that will be popular because of the recession.
    Its killing two birds with oene stone really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Torakx wrote: »
    Its killing two birds with oene stone really.

    Its not though,its killing one bird with one stone.
    Like you said you dont believe the production company Endemol sat down and said that they need a programme about how to keep poor people happy about being poor?The made a topical programme that was current.

    You then cant say after admiting you believe there intentions were just to make a show about a popular subject at the moment that they are killing two birds with one stone.You are just shoehorning it in


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Torakx wrote: »
    American Tv is so dumbed down i can spot subliminals regularly now.
    Hasn't subliminal advertising been shown not to work at all?
    If so why would they keep trying to subliminally plant these images if its shown not to work?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    seannash wrote: »
    Hasn't subliminal advertising been shown not to work at all?
    If so why would they keep trying to subliminally plant these images if its shown not to work?

    Maybe because it works.
    Just because someone says it doesnt, does not mean it doesnt.
    Im sure its also easy to sponsor some research to show it doesnt.

    Besides that, they are doing it.If they are doing it, there must be a reason.
    Since it had absolutely no place in that tv series or episode and it was only 1 frame or so also,i must consider that it was a sly move to associate Ron Paul with Drugs.
    His poster was on one of the pages of a meth cook book...

    Now i dont trust Ron Paul one bit, but i know what i saw.

    I guess too, its one bird with one stone if you dont follow the CT lol
    I think myself its just as likely that program was good for viewers who needed the info and also good to remind them they should settle for their lot.
    It is very speculative though.I think the programming boards are in sync with government on general do's and donts and not so much focusing on shows like that.
    Its more likely in my view the board members or whatever they have, would express to the producers/programmers etc that they wish to have more shows relating to the recent austerity measures and this Ct would possibly be on their list of things to do in general.
    i think if thats the case this particular show would fall well into that category more so than say "Only fools and horses" or something like that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Torakx wrote: »
    Maybe because it works.
    Just because someone says it doesnt, does not mean it doesnt.
    Im sure its also easy to sponsor some research to show it doesnt.

    Besides that, they are doing it.If they are doing it, there must be a reason.
    Since it had absolutely no place in that tv series or episode and it was only 1 frame or so also,i must consider that it was a sly move to associate Ron Paul with Drugs.
    His poster was on one of the pages of a meth cook book...

    I'm actually genuinely curious if subliminal messaging works and if there are tests out there that it works.
    I know back in the day someone reported to have tested it and it worked but later on couldn't provide proof.

    Is there any studies that say flashing an image up for a split second will have an affect on people


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Honestly i cant remember lol
    Its something i focused quite alot on too.
    I would imagine its hard to prove either way without a proper enviornment to test it.
    I remember reading that roughly 80% of our percieved enviornment is filtered to let us focus our concious minds to tasks and i guess you could call it Ram (random access memory) type memory.
    So we apparently only percieve consciously 20% of our enviornment.
    That other 80% goes into the unconscious and from ther ei imagine it would hold onto key notes and underlying motivations.

    Have you ever been in a car with a driver and they said " wow ever since i got this car i keep seeing alot of these models around".
    Thats because they are now conscious of this particular model where they may not have been focused on it as much before.
    Before that this type of model would have been seen but filtered to the unconscious.

    So our brains have an unwritten guide to what we filter and the rest is actually seen and experienced, we are just not consciously aware of it.

    Theres quite alot of interesting things online that you can read up on which will give an overall idea on how our minds work.
    To me the bigger picture after alot of reading is that we do absorb information unconsciously.

    Heres something i just googled now.About studies done with universities etc
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/health/psychology/31subl.html?pagewanted=all
    The mere presence of the briefcase, noticed but not consciously registered, generated business-related associations and expectations, the authors argue, leading the brain to run the most appropriate goal program: compete. The students had no sense of whether they had acted selfishly or generously.
    The brain appears to use the very same neural circuits to execute an unconscious act as it does a conscious one. In a study that appeared in the journal Science in May, a team of English and French neuroscientists performed brain imaging on 18 men and women who were playing a computer game for money. The players held a handgrip and were told that the tighter they squeezed when an image of money flashed on the screen, the more of the loot they could keep.



    As expected, the players squeezed harder when the image of a British pound flashed by than when the image of a penny did — regardless of whether they consciously perceived the pictures, many of which flew by subliminally. But the circuits activated in their brains were similar as well: an area called the ventral pallidum was particularly active whenever the participants responded.


    “This area is located in what used to be called the reptilian brain, well below the conscious areas of the brain,” said the study’s senior author, Chris Frith, a professor in neuropsychology at University College London who wrote the book “Making Up The Mind: How the Brain Creates our Mental World.”
    I dont take any study as 100% accurate.In 10 year it might turn out something else also applies.
    But i think it gives a good explanation for how i feel personally the brain/mind functions.

    Oh, also i should add this does not effectively prove subliminals work from tv.
    Because imo you need a lasting effect.But i could be wrong!Who knows how much we rmeember unconsciously.Hypnosis studies after subliminals might tell us though.

    However i do think if you use repeats the unconscious will pick up on patterns.
    I know the number 3 is sacred in some circles and i think i read the mind picks up on patterns.
    This is for sure why professional speakers,hypnotists etc repeat important phrases three times. not two and not four but three ^^
    If you watch alot of Ct videos especially you will notice some speaking using this technique to implant propoganda or "facts" or just sometimes facts haha.

    Anyway to me it all makes sense, but ive been reading about this since about 2008 or so on and off.Ive ALOT of info floating in my unconscious and i cannot remmeber half of it.However im an intuitive right brain dominant INFJ personality type :D
    so thats how i work, i get a feeling about stuff from the unconscious which tells me what i already know or have surmised.
    All total b0llox to some people, but thats my view for the moment until i learn otherwise.
    And from my own life experience my instincts are ussually better than my second thoughts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Its an interesting study but I dont think thats the same as something flashing up for a split second though.
    Its more conditioning to know certain items are associated with certain behaviours.
    The car thing is just people recognising people who have a similar item to them.

    Its definetly interesting but I still can find any article that proves sublimial advertising which flashes an image for a split second work


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    seannash wrote: »
    Its an interesting study but I dont think thats the same as something flashing up for a split second though.
    Its more conditioning to know certain items are associated with certain behaviours.
    The car thing is just people recognising people who have a similar item to them.

    Its definetly interesting but I still can find any article that proves sublimial advertising which flashes an image for a split second work

    I just posted it above ^^
    You didnt read it.
    There is one there relating to an experiment with flashed subliminals(below the threshold of perception) even faster than what i experienced on tv.
    Yet the subjects still responded accordingly without any knowledge they were doing so.
    That is exactly what you asked for.

    Edit: sorry you ment advertising.That is somethign you will have to research for a few hours to a few years lol

    Either theres a study out there to show it works or there isnt, but either way i know it does or they would not be using it.
    Advertising has the biggest budgets among the entertainment industries.
    Theres a reason that and subliminals are used and a priority.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    Torakx wrote: »
    I just posted it above ^^
    You didnt read it.
    There is one there relating to an experiment with flashed subliminals(below the threshold of perception) even faster than what i experienced on tv.
    Yet the subjects still responded accordingly without any knowledge they were doing so.
    That is exactly what you asked for.

    Edit: sorry you ment advertising.That is somethign you will have to research for a few hours to a few years lol

    Either theres a study out there to show it works or there isnt, but either way i know it does or they would not be using it.
    Advertising has the biggest budgets among the entertainment industries.
    Theres a reason that and subliminals are used and a priority.

    I dont think it works,theres plenty of studies that say it doesn't work but none that say it does.
    We have to draw a conclusion from that that its inaffective


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