Aged Bull

red bull

My 4yr old bull has got a little bold I have two choices put him in a pen till next spring or send him to factory. Anybody know what the factories are quoting ?

bob charles

nothing special for a bull his age, probably realize a better price to sell live. feeding till next spring may pay but there is allot of feeding needed to get him to there. what weight and breed is he

red bull

Feeding him till next spring option is to get another years breeding out of him. He's a Montbeliarde about 700kgs

whelan1

out the gate asap... would factory him , no use having an animal liike that around the place

Butcher Boy

the hook for him.

pakalasa

Once a bull turns wicked, will he ever quieten down again?

red bull

Got the message how much per kg ? can I expect

Cavanjack

red bull wrote: »

Got the message how much per kg ? can I expect

€2.20-2.30 kg. Better off selling him in the mart but there is less chance of him killing anyone if ya send him straight to the factory.

epfff

red bull wrote: »

Got the message how much per kg ? can I expect

Into shed if you have room
dump tonne bag of meal infront of him when ate the hang up
make sure no kids or their grandfather can get in to him though

JohnBoy

kill or be killed.

Finno59

arahhhh keep him for another while sure if he's bringing nice heifers then he's worth the risk ................................................................... sarcasm? yes

bbam

Hang him high.
He has all day standing round waiting on you or some other poor ejit to let your guard down, then you'll know what the right answer was.

blue5000

One word































































'BANG':eek:

bob charles

Cavanjack wrote: »

€2.20-2.30 kg. Better off selling him in the mart but there is less chance of him killing anyone if ya send him straight to the factory.

epfff wrote: »

Into shed if you have room
dump tonne bag of meal infront of him when ate the hang up
make sure no kids or their grandfather can get in to him though

does your above plan really make since at the price above. Sell him live. I buy a few of these sort of animals regularly and often its the way the bull has being handled is the problem why he is cross. Most dangerous animal we have had in the last 24 months was a supposed quiet angus bullock. you should be aware of all animal and I bet once that bull would be put in to a finishing pen with other bullocks/bulls he would be as quiet as a mouse. One big dominate animal in the pen will keep the pecking order as it should

just do it

bob charles wrote: »

does your above plan really make since at the price above. Sell him live. I buy a few of these sort of animals regularly and often its the way the bull has being handled is the problem why he is cross. Most dangerous animal we have had in the last 24 months was a supposed quiet angus bullock. you should be aware of all animal and I bet once that bull would be put in to a finishing pen with other bullocks/bulls he would be as quiet as a mouse. One big dominate animal in the pen will keep the pecking order as it should

I disagree with you on this one Bob. Fine if someone like yourself buys him but an unsuspecting farmer may buy him to get another year out of him. I wouldn't want that on my conscience. Straight to the factory - end of story.

pakalasa

pakalasa wrote: »

Once a bull turns wicked, will he ever quieten down again?

:D:D
It was actually a question.

case 5150

em em nooooooooooooooooo i thought that but i learnt my lesson v quick when he came for me bringing in the cows for milking one evening last summer







DISPOSE OR HE WILL DISPOSE YOU WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT

red bull

Cavanjack wrote: »

€2.20-2.30 kg. Better off selling him in the mart but there is less chance of him killing anyone if ya send him straight to the factory.

On hi way to Mc Donalds €2.80 kg I hope

KatyMac

Few years ago I had a 4 month old heifer that was pure mad. My kids were young at the time and I didn't know what to do with her. A neighbour who was big into cattle wheeling and dealing offered to take her and put her into a shed with older animals as that would put manners on her. Well, 3 months later he rang me one evening and said she was worse if anything, she had tried to get to him across a feed barrier! Guess what happened to her very soon after that? I got nothing out of her (except couple of sleepless nights), but with 2 small kids and an elderly father who thinks he knows everything about animals it was the only way. As has already been said, 'kill or be killed'.

Dont be daft

I reckon I could write a book on dangerous bulls at this stage.
Lots of near ones and recently a not so near one.
Just not worth it at all, and they are clever little fcukers. They'll wait all day everyday.
The lad that did the damage to me snuck up on me from about 200m out. Quitely walked up along a ditch, didnt know he was there till he was on top of me.
Take my word for it, taking a crap price is not a bad alternative to what can happen. There's been a handful of local lads killed by bulls over the years and the majority of them knew the bull was wicked long before.

bob charles

s

pakalasa wrote: »

:D:D
It was actually a question.

depends on the animal, most of these stock bulls are underfed and when they're put in finishing pens and offered feed ad-lib they tend to just relax otherwise one of the dominant bulls in the pen will tell him to cop on. Similar to a jail term, there is one boss and all the so called dangerous guys have to take their line in the pecking order or else face the consequences

ordinary farmer

i have an over age bull he is 3 years old quite bull but my problem is sell him in the mart(might not be the interest as he is not ped) kill him and get sweet f**k all for a nice beast. or cut him and kill him as a bullock

grazeaway

Only started having one when we went into sucklers nearly 10 years ago, prior to that were milking so twas AI. My dad used to keep a bull for the cows years ago but had a very close escape with a young friesin bull he had bought as a calf and reared himself for the cows. He wasnt married long and with plans for a family he had the bull in a trailer and off the farm the next day.

have been lucky with the bulls we have had over the last few years and the new lad seems quite enough too (every farmer says that before they attach), but i always look to see where he is and what mood he is in when i go into the field. when we are moving them around or briing in any we always let him do what he wants, if he wants to follow in we let him if he wants to stay int eh field with the other we let him do that too. No point agiating him for the sake of it. always a good idea to come of as a good guy to him who feeds you and doesnt shout or hit ya.

its only when you are up close to them that you relise how powerful they are and if they want to they could just walk through you. have found that bulls like other cattle like routines and stability so anything out of the ordianry or moving them on their own will agiate them.

like the boys above say if you have any doubt its off to the factory with him. you might be able to sell life but you cant buy it

pakalasa

"The most dangerous dairy bull is a bull that has not been properly socialized to his own kind. When a young bull calf becomes mature at age two, he needs to challenge the top bull in the herd. If the bull calf has been raised alone and has not had the opportunity to interact with other cattle, he thinks he is a person and he wants to exert his dominance over the "herd". This can result in dangerous attacks on people. Ed Price at the University of California found that bull calves raised in groups were much less likely to attack people than bull calves raised in individual pens. Bull calves raised on a cow were the least likely to attack. When they are raised with their own kind, they know who they are and they are less likely to think that people are part of the herd. "

From;
http://www.grandin.com/behaviour/principles/preventing.bull.accidents.html

bbam

pakalasa wrote: »

"The most dangerous dairy bull is a bull that has not been properly socialized to his own kind. When a young bull calf becomes mature at age two, he needs to challenge the top bull in the herd. If the bull calf has been raised alone and has not had the opportunity to interact with other cattle, he thinks he is a person and he wants to exert his dominance over the "herd". This can result in dangerous attacks on people. Ed Price at the University of California found that bull calves raised in groups were much less likely to attack people than bull calves raised in individual pens. Bull calves raised on a cow were the least likely to attack. When they are raised with their own kind, they know who they are and they are less likely to think that people are part of the herd. "

From;
http://www.grandin.com/behaviour/principles/preventing.bull.accidents.html

The widespread use of the phrase "less likely" is key... It still goes, once they show signs of danger there is only one sensible option..

The non action over safety issues on farms is causing huge numbers of deaths and injuries every year, we need to act on things we know are a danger and start looking out for things we aren't aware of yet.

If this were an factory/industury situation and an employer kept running a machine that had demonstrated it had changed to be potentially lethal to be around we would expect the machine to be replaced.. In the event of an accident the employer would also be up in court for a potential negligence case.

reilig

My inlaws have a neighbour who seems to need to buy a new bull every 18 months because he becomes wicked. Its all about the handling - when he buys a bull he keeps him in "the bull pen", feeds him buckets of meal and scratches his back - almost making a pet out of him. When the bull goes out with cows, he goes out into the field to him with buckets of meal, rubs him and scratches him. Over time the bull becomes playful. He sees the master coming and he sees it as play to threaten to give him a little nudge. Then the farmer gets frightened and won't enter the field without a stick or a fork. After this, he is a threat to the bull, and he will try to nail the farmer whenever he can.

In my own opinion, the best bull to buy is one that hasn't been handled at all - one which has been treated the same as the other animals on the farm. Too many people want a bull that has been halter trained when in fact a halter trained bull has been petted and picked up bad habits that may be influential to his docility in the future.

Bulls in bygon years were haltar trained because they were brought from cow to cow on various farms to bull cows. People don't need to pet cows, why do they need pet bulls?

bbam

reilig wrote: »

Bulls in bygon years were haltar trained because they were brought from cow to cow on various farms to bull cows.

Ahhh yes, round us he was known as "the bull man".. his bull killed him too :eek:

redzerologhlen

reilig wrote: »

My inlaws have a neighbour who seems to need to buy a new bull every 18 months because he becomes wicked. Its all about the handling - when he buys a bull he keeps him in "the bull pen", feeds him buckets of meal and scratches his back - almost making a pet out of him. When the bull goes out with cows, he goes out into the field to him with buckets of meal, rubs him and scratches him. Over time the bull becomes playful. He sees the master coming and he sees it as play to threaten to give him a little nudge. Then the farmer gets frightened and won't enter the field without a stick or a fork. After this, he is a threat to the bull, and he will try to nail the farmer whenever he can.

In my own opinion, the best bull to buy is one that hasn't been handled at all - one which has been treated the same as the other animals on the farm. Too many people want a bull that has been halter trained when in fact a halter trained bull has been petted and picked up bad habits that may be influential to his docility in the future.

Bulls in bygon years were haltar trained because they were brought from cow to cow on various farms to bull cows. People don't need to pet cows, why do they need pet bulls?

You hit the nail on the head there reilig.

Bizzum

reilig wrote: »

My inlaws have a neighbour who seems to need to buy a new bull every 18 months because he becomes wicked. Its all about the handling - when he buys a bull he keeps him in "the bull pen", feeds him buckets of meal and scratches his back - almost making a pet out of him. When the bull goes out with cows, he goes out into the field to him with buckets of meal, rubs him and scratches him. Over time the bull becomes playful. He sees the master coming and he sees it as play to threaten to give him a little nudge. Then the farmer gets frightened and won't enter the field without a stick or a fork. After this, he is a threat to the bull, and he will try to nail the farmer whenever he can.

In my own opinion, the best bull to buy is one that hasn't been handled at all - one which has been treated the same as the other animals on the farm. Too many people want a bull that has been halter trained when in fact a halter trained bull has been petted and picked up bad habits that may be influential to his docility in the future.

Bulls in bygon years were haltar trained because they were brought from cow to cow on various farms to bull cows. People don't need to pet cows, why do they need pet bulls?

The whole halter training issue often came to my mind, (particularly when I was halter training a bull!) you spend time doing it for the day of sale and when the bull lands home with the new buyer its likely the halter will never be used again.
For what it's worth, I often felt it was easier to drive an untrained bull than a halter trained one.