Does your kit make you a target?

evilmonkee

So, SHTF and you're making your way out of the town / city your in.
As people see you walking down the street, do you look like a target to attempt to rob and loot supplies from??

My bag intentionally looks normal, its written on with various markers and has keyrings attached (normal ones with logo's etc.)
Both these make it look like an average bag, nothing special, however the keyrings have multiple uses. Inside stocks a full BOB with enough food for at least 72 hours and water for 24 (plus enough WP tablets to do around 70l) , rain gear , shelter etc. All this is over multiple pockets with easy access to the most frequently needed and emergency items.

The clothes in it are again average looking, black combats, oversized tshirt, woolen jumper - if I were to change into them, I wouldn't look special. But again they are very useful, the tshirt can be used for filtering water or to hold hot things, the woolen jumper is lightweight but warm while also lets air circulate and dries quickly, the combats have plently of pockets and are very sturdy.

Boots - either hiking or leather (depending on wheter I'm at home or not), both well broken in and comfortable. again nothing special looking but completely essential.

I think the only thing that would give me away is the 1l metal canteen EDC that would be swinging from my bag.

Doc Ruby

What scenarios do you envision being a target in?

Streams of desperate refugees swarming up a road with gangs of heavies leaning against the wall watching them?

Urban collapse á la Dawn of the Dead?

Weeks after some hypothetical global disaster, walking alone on secluded back roads?

Its a good idea to seek camouflage of course, but looking like a "normal backpacker" is camouflage only when you'd expect to see other similarly dressed people moving around, preferably in great numbers.

In the first scenario you'd blend in alright, but why aren't the gangs of heavies also fleeing; what if they pick on a member of a larger group accidentally and get the crap kicked out of them; why would they be interested in camping gear and not jewelry etc? In the second nobody cares what anyone is wearing. In the third scenario you could be targeted no matter what you look like.

I think its a good idea to do what you're doing, but in the same way as you'd plan an escape route its important to consider individual scenarios and be ready to react accordingly. A way to do this is to put yourself in the boots of potential predators - how would they react to someone dressed like a businessman, a housewife, a backpacker, a soldier, or a policeman, given the short or long term collapse of law and order?

wolfeye

It's called being the Grey Man.
Knowing the environment around you and not sticking out.
Dont be sticking out with clothes you wear, like bright clothes.
Act as other people act in that area and be natural and dress like people in that area dress.
Dont be running or doing anything that draws attention to you.
No shiny jewellery.
Basically not doing anything that draws attention to you.
Basically being invisible and ordinary.

evilmonkee

From looking at pictures of other peoples kit online, a lot of them seem to be either large rucksacks, which obviously make someone look like they are well prepared , or military styled bags, again, IMO this looks as though you may have some sort of stash on you.

In my disaster situation, a general mass scale evacuation is ordered, say an earthquake, tsunami, biohazard etc.

I feel that by standing out with either a vast quantity of gear or a very sophisticated looking pack, this would draw attention to you and make you more of a target to people who are ill-prepared. Whereas if your bag / clothes etc. look similar to other peoples you may be less likely to be targeted for having valuable resources.

Danpad

I'd imagine there'd be many people on foot with bags/cases/backpacks etc and just as many in cars loaded with gear. You'd have to seriously stand out from everyone else to draw the attention of predators. In a mass evacuation and amidst a probably panicked crowd I'd seek out like minded people asap to form a little unit-safety in numbers and all that. I would try to avoid being a solitary wanderer in rural areas as backpack or not, roaming, predatory gangs would take an interest IMO.

wolfeye

In a mass evacuation lots of people will be carrying bags and wearing backpacks,so you'd blend in.
Dont be having a shiny new orange one that shouts come take me.
You could always dumb down your pack by scruffing it up,rub a bit of dirt into and some burnt oil so that a potential robber would say i aint going near that filty pack.
I reckon the person wheeling his Louis Vuitton luggage down the street is more at risk.

bonniebede

wolfeye wrote: »

In a mass evacuation lots of people will be carrying bags and wearing backpacks,so you'd blend in.
Dont be having a shiny new orange one that shouts come take me.
You could always dumb down your pack by scruffing it up,rub a bit of dirt into and some burnt oil so that a potential robber would say i aint going near that filty pack.
I reckon the person wheeling his Louis Vuitton luggage down the street is more at risk.

on the other hand you have to ask what is now valuable, ie what do people want to rob. Suppose you are caught up in a mass evacuation... after a couple of days, no one is going to want your louis vuitton filled with designer clothes. Pobably plenty of that just to pick up from people realising its useless and abandoning it. I would looking out for scruffy well worn back packs on people who look like they might have a bit of useful camping gear, and maybe a bit of food and water stashed away.

I mean i would if i were being predatory, which of course I'm not.

have2flushtwice

Iv been following this forum for a while. . . I need one thing, a weapon, such as a gun or knife.
Its about survival, so if i want to survive, im taking your rucksak. If it hasnt got what i want, solar panel, food, pills, etc, i move to the next one.

Tabnabs

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Iv been following this forum for a while. . . I need one thing, a weapon, such as a gun or knife.
Its about survival, so if i want to survive, im taking your rucksak. If it hasnt got what i want, solar panel, food, pills, etc, i move to the next one.

Gun ownership in Ireland is so highly restrictive that it's not possible in all practical terms that you will ever have access to a gun.

As for robbing a prepper at knife point;



You need a plan B...

Tabnabs

To get a proper sense of TEOTWAWKI, there are some instances in both Europe and Africa where photos taken of mass refugee movements give an insight into what it would be like and what the average person looks like.

https://www.msu.edu/course/pls/461/stein/kosovo.htm

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/11/conflict_in_congo_refugees_on.html

I imagine a lot of people in Ireland would simply stuff their suitcases full of items and head off. So a rucksack and a wheelie case or two (even empty or with extra clothes) would make you fit right in.

I also see bicycles being wheeled, loaded up with goods. That seems like a good option too if you have to go by shanks mare.

wolfeye

bonniebede wrote: »

on the other hand you have to ask what is now valuable, ie what do people want to rob. Suppose you are caught up in a mass evacuation... after a couple of days, no one is going to want your louis vuitton filled with designer clothes. Pobably plenty of that just to pick up from people realising its useless and abandoning it. I would looking out for scruffy well worn back packs on people who look like they might have a bit of useful camping gear, and maybe a bit of food and water stashed away.

I mean i would if i were being predatory, which of course I'm not.

If the SHFTF is localised to a province ,one country,the valuables like jewellery,cash is going to come in pretty handy outside this area or when things return to normal.
So people are going to bring their valuables with them.
A designer label suitcase like that, is like aloud speaker shouting hey valuables here.
People are going to be prey to organised gangs and opportunistic thieves.
This jewellery ,cash(easier carried items) can then be traded for food,water ,shelter and weapons.

Scruffy backpacks,bags,sacks will probably be the norm during a mass evacuation so you'd be rather unfortunate if your scruffy Backpack stood out for some reason .

bonniebede

wolfeye wrote: »

If the SHFTF is localised to a province ,one country,the valuables like jewellery,cash is going to come in pretty handy outside this area or when things return to normal.
So people are going to bring their valuables with them.
A designer label suitcase like that, is like aloud speaker shouting hey valuables here.
People are going to be prey to organised gangs and opportunistic thieves.
This jewellery ,cash(easier carried items) can then be traded for food,water ,shelter and weapons.

Scruffy backpacks,bags,sacks will probably be the norm during a mass evacuation so you'd be rather unfortunate if your scruffy Backpack stood out for some reason .

but if you are a prepper you should have some assets distributed elsewhere, is where you are going to ... so you would have no need to carry with you anything which did not contribute to you survival on the journey.

Also, what are these predatory people surviving on? how are they having the leisure to rob you if everyone is fleeing for their lives?

at the end of the day, the grey man approach probabvly works best, head down, keep moving, skirt bottlenecks or danger spots if possible, do not stop to pass go or collect a new pair of nikes in a looted shop.

Cork boy 55

Survival-ism IMO is not sorely about individualism IMO

If we define Survivalism as
preparation for major widespread long lasting adverse events
and not living in the wild using bush skills or specialist skills for pilots or sailors or mountaineers surviving plane crashes or ship wreaks etc

Then it should be about Government, communities and individuals preparing and planned not just lone individuals. It is a key flaw in survivalist thinking in Ireland anyway that if you think you together with <1% of the population have made any preparations that you are going to make it.

We need to change the focuses from the individual into who we as local communities and a republic should be better prepared for major adverse SHTF scenarios.

Not much point having prepared as an individual if most of the rest of your townland and your government has not. You will become a target
for begging thievery or just goodwill you will lose any edge you had.


Which raises the question how well prepared are
Government
communities
% individuals
in Ireland?

I am thinking of starting a thread on this?

Doc Ruby

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Then it should be about Government, communities and individuals preparing and planned not just lone individuals. It is a key flaw in survivalist thinking in Ireland anyway that if you think you together with <1% of the population have made any preparations that you are going to make it.

We need to change the focuses from the individual into who we as local communities and a republic should be better prepared for major adverse SHTF scenarios.

I've had shall we say lively discussions on just this with other members, its very much an American rather than an Irish perspective, but it permeates groups everywhere.

A basic assumption about the need for our peculiar skillsets is the collapse of government, or alternately sufficiently incompetent governments that there may as well not be one, so we can probably disregard the first element.

Community is of great importance however, I'd probably recommend thinking about how one can best help the community as part of any survival plan. While there is neccessarily a long and wide streak of individualism here, when an opportunity arises to help others, take it without endangerimg yourself unduly.

sweeney1971

Had to put up with a conversation by two women whilst waiting for someone. One said to the other 'I am really worried in case there is a food shortage' the other woman replied 'Oh I am alright I live round the corner from Tesco'

No, people are not prepared. Aways have a plan B, such as a safe house if you are over run. People will do anything for food. We have had ours in place for years what we would do in a crisis.

I watched a film as a child called 'No Blade of Grass' it frightened me then, hence it has always been in the back of my mind 'what if'

sweeney1971

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Survival-ism IMO is not sorely about individualism IMO

If we define Survivalism as
preparation for major widespread long lasting adverse events
and not living in the wild using bush skills or specialist skills for pilots or sailors or mountaineers surviving plane crashes or ship wreaks etc

Then it should be about Government, communities and individuals preparing and planned not just lone individuals. It is a key flaw in survivalist thinking in Ireland anyway that if you think you together with <1% of the population have made any preparations that you are going to make it.

We need to change the focuses from the individual into who we as local communities and a republic should be better prepared for major adverse SHTF scenarios.

Not much point having prepared as an individual if most of the rest of your townland and your government has not. You will become a target
for begging thievery or just goodwill you will lose any edge you had.


Which raises the question how well prepared are
Government
communities
% individuals
in Ireland?

I am thinking of starting a thread on this?

Would be a great thread.

Cork boy 55

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I've had shall we say lively discussions on just this with other members, its very much an American rather than an Irish perspective, but it permeates groups everywhere.

A basic assumption about the need for our peculiar skillsets is the collapse of government, or alternately sufficiently incompetent governments that there may as well not be one, so we can probably disregard the first element.

Community is of great importance however, I'd probably recommend thinking about how one can best help the community as part of any survival plan. While there is neccessarily a long and wide streak of individualism here, when an opportunity arises to help others, take it without endangerimg yourself unduly.

There are thousands of survivalist scenarios
from not having running water for a week to nuclear Armageddon
and in most of them those with the highest order of probability ...

a) the government will be functioning at some level or at least
elements of it institutions and local authority's.

b) The better prepared government is the better for everyone preppers and
ignorant joe six pack. also even if it those collaspe at least the reserves and stockpiles and everyhing else it planned for will be place.

c) if the government long-term disaster preparation and reserves are a joke and society at large is ignorant and pampered well then individual preppers
and their supplies and kit WILL BE TARGETS

d) and by target it won't just be violent thieves it will more than likely be beggars and the beggars will be your extended friend family and neighbors.

e) It is Government planning that is the most important part to survivalism IMO
We need to prepare a layered approach
Goverment-national and local, Societal culture of survival ism and individual preparation.

f) Just imagine the diaster planing that goes on in places like Israel, South Korea, Switzerland and compare that to the Irish Government
For example the size of military reserves. would be the number one
and on on
They are a different league

g) who we change Societal culture and government is another story

bonniebede

But what if you are trying to survive is a hostile government? What about war, civil war, a government who sees you as a group to be persecuted for whatever reason?

What if the threat comes from the community, such as infection?

I totally believe and am committed to the naturalness of building communities and governments but in this order -

strong individuals build strong families, which are the natural unit of society.
Strong families (and that is extended not nuclear) make for strong communities, which in turn lead to strong governments at local and national level.

It is interesting that one of the framers of the American constitution, -can't remember which- said that the constitution was only suited to governing a moral people, it would be totally unsuited to governing any other.
Surely one of the theoretical prepping situations is one in which the effective rule of law has broken down in some way.
This is not an argument for individualism which is in general the weaker position to adopt, but only for individual preparation so as to make you a strong net contributor rather than a weak net taker in any situation of stress.

Doc Ruby

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

a) the government will be functioning at some level or at least
elements of it institutions and local authority's.

The government is made up of people however, so the question is whether or not the emergency is sufficiently serious to have them trying to escape with all the other people.

bonniebede

Doc Ruby wrote: »

The government is made up of people however, so the question is whether or not the emergency is sufficiently serious to have them trying to escape with all the other people.

good point. do we have nuclear bunkers for the Dail?

wolfeye

Article from Irish Independant 31 july 2004
"waking to to a nucleur nightmare..."
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/waking-up-to-a-nuclear-nightmare-165435.html

The underground nuclear bunker at Custume Barracks in Athlone, which was supposed to be used by ministers and other senior officials in the event of a nuclear strike, is now so old-fashioned that it is redundant.
A recent visitor from the Offaly Independent described how the control centre has a line of out-dated 1950s-style telephones. These would not look out of place in the Hitchcock film Dial M for Murder. The control centre had a hotline to British government in Whitehall.
There are kitchen and bedroom facilities for our political VIPs, a map room pointing out important areas for protection and bathroom facilities

Has there been new ones Built since 2004?

Doc Ruby

bonniebede wrote: »

good point. do we have nuclear bunkers for the Dail?

I hear Bertie took the key to the room with the iodine tablets with him when he left, the hoor.

wolfeye

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I hear Bertie took the key to the room with the iodine tablets with him when he left, the hoor.

I think he has it for sale on ebay for E119.84 under a different name.
If we all chip in maybe we can get it?:D
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320951763882&clk_rvr_id=380891298691

wolfeye

bonniebede wrote: »

but if you are a prepper you should have some assets distributed elsewhere, is where you are going to ... so you would have no need to carry with you anything which did not contribute to you survival on the journey.

Also, what are these predatory people surviving on? how are they having the leisure to rob you if everyone is fleeing for their lives?

at the end of the day, the grey man approach probabvly works best, head down, keep moving, skirt bottlenecks or danger spots if possible, do not stop to pass go or collect a new pair of nikes in a looted shop.

I can't stop to loot a new pair of nikes?,spoil sport:mad:
I always wanted a new pair of Nike Hercules just they be too expensive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MIM-14_Nike-Hercules_02.jpg

ShadowFox

In a SHTF Ive 6 to look after and 2 dogs which is the main reason i use a 120lt Bergen pack because

1) I can carry whats needed as the dogs or younger kids cant carry what they might need
2) I can hide a good knife and axe between the side pouches and the main pack (maybe a shotgun cut down ) and they are easy to get to
3) The way the Bergen is packed I can leave the main part with my family when we find shelter and i can use the side pouches to scout ahead to get food / water or just get the lay of the land
4) My bug out clothes would be od green or black combats ive normal rain gear blue i think and a camo poncho if needed

At the end of the day it doesnt matter what you wear or carry if things get that bad your gonna have problems some where along the line either by someone trying to attack you or someone thinking your going to attack them. We could go through lists of what ifs and maybes Me personally ill take it slow and day by day and hopefully make it to the other side

evilmonkee

grapeape wrote: »

1) I can carry whats needed as the dogs or younger kids cant carry what they might need

I have a medium sized Staffie/JRT cross and she has her own backpack which I made for hiking. its small enough but I'm getting her used to it first before I strap a bigger one on.
Even the small one can fit about 3 days of food and 2 days water, so unless you have very small dogs you could consider letting them carry their own stuff....
(she even carries her own poop after its been bagged )

ShadowFox

evilmonkee wrote: »

I have a medium sized Staffie/JRT cross and she has her own backpack which I made for hiking. its small enough but I'm getting her used to it first before I strap a bigger one on.
Even the small one can fit about 3 days of food and 2 days water, so unless you have very small dogs you could consider letting them carry their own stuff....
(she even carries her own poop after its been bagged )

The Rottie can carry her own for a couple of days but the jack russel cant and i plan to have food for at least a week if i can thinking of getting a cart ill post a link to the one i mean later