Should I quit my job and travel (I'm 31 yo)

Tatankbull

I’ve just turned 31 and I’ve this urge to travel for the next few years. I’d love to simply mess about for three years or so but I worry that I’m too old for this and that I’m making a horrible life decision!

I’m working in an okay job at the moment and life isn’t terrible. But I just know there’s so much more to experience, especially while I’m still relatively young. Add to this the fact that I’ve no debt or children or spouse so all my decisions will only affect myself. My fear (and guilt) is that having a job is such a privilege in this economy that I shouldn’t voluntarily leave it, that it would be irresponsible. I also worry that at my age if I return to Ireland by say the age of 35 I’ll be too old to get into any new career (I’d like to get into teaching, eventually).

I’d just like to know what people would do in my position and if they’d advise someone in their 30s against ‘feckless’ travel. Any thoughts and opinions will be welcomed!

shampooman

My philosopy is "why not" Go for it. Down the line you may not have this opportunity again so if it's what you want and if not going is something that you may regret down the line then I would go. It could be perfect timing for you since you have no responsibilities.

Also you said "I’m working in an okay job at the moment and life isn’t terrible" I get the sense that you are a bit bored and possibly fed up with the same old ding dong. You only live once, travelling does make you a well rounded person plus you would be introduced to unique experiences that will give you an opportunity to meet new people...maybe the love of your life who knows.

Travelling is great for a number of things and when you get back home who knows you may see things differently and actually appreciate the things you got here but sometimes in order to do that we got to take ourselves out of our envirnoment and see what else the world has to offer. Your 31 and have the means to do something that could have a massive positive impact on your life if an "okay job" and a life that isint terrible is the only thing holding you back then you know the answer to your question

Best of luck and send us a postcard!

Ellsbells

I did it at 30 but then the company I was working for was winding down and i am sorry I did. When I came back 3 years later, I had used all my savings, took a step back in work and never financially caught up. If I could do it again I would save to do a coouple of big trips every year rather that give up all and travel.

tony81

Be careful..

You're setting aside 3 years for "simply messing about" (aka travelling)?

You're a bit old for that!!

1. There's a chance you'll exhaust your savings within 3 months of trying to get established in a new city and job hunt.
2. Even if you find work you there's a good chance you'd be making more money in Ireland.
3. You won't get into teaching abroad.
4. Your may lose contact with friends while you're away, or worse, end up living at home via facebook.
5. You'll probably end up hanging out with Irish people abroad.
6. It can also be costly to get home for emergencies like family illnesses or deaths.
7. You're facing unemployment when you get home.
8. Most "travellers" (to the likes of australia) are in their early 20s. They really aren't that interesting.. Go to a nightclub on student night and you'll see how much fun you could be having.

It sounds like you're lacking in goals other than a vague notion of becoming a teacher ("eventually"), and you're not appreciative of what you actually have going for you. Going abroad won't necessarily change that. You'll still be the same person, only abroad.

Short-term - inject a bit of fun in your life
If you are someone who saves up your annual leave til as late in the year as possible then end up taking 3 boring weeks at Christmas, instead why not ask your employer to let you take 3 weeks during the summer - perhaps in addition to some unpaid leave - or even a career break - to do a bit of travelling? Who knows, if the time off goes well you might actually make the decision not to return to work.

Long-term - your career.
A 5 year plan is not "i'll go travelling for 3 years and become a teacher when I get home". If becoming a teacher is your dream, start looking into it immediately. How much money will you need, what grants are available, where can I get work experience, what colleges offer what courses, etc. Once you're a teacher you'll have plenty of annual leave & time to travel, maybe even to take a career break.

If you are definitely going to leave your current job, some European countries offer free masters, and some UK uni's offer grants for people who want to teach certain subjects at second level. It would be a productive use of your time and you'd actually be immersing yourself in the country, rather than just travelling from city to city hoping that you'll find something that made it all worth-while.

Sorry for the negativity! But packing everything in to "mess around for three years" probably won't work out for you.

rainbowtrout

Tatankbull wrote: »

I’ve just turned 31 and I’ve this urge to travel for the next few years. I’d love to simply mess about for three years or so but I worry that I’m too old for this and that I’m making a horrible life decision!

I’m working in an okay job at the moment and life isn’t terrible. But I just know there’s so much more to experience, especially while I’m still relatively young. Add to this the fact that I’ve no debt or children or spouse so all my decisions will only affect myself. My fear (and guilt) is that having a job is such a privilege in this economy that I shouldn’t voluntarily leave it, that it would be irresponsible. I also worry that at my age if I return to Ireland by say the age of 35 I’ll be too old to get into any new career (I’d like to get into teaching, eventually).

I’d just like to know what people would do in my position and if they’d advise someone in their 30s against ‘feckless’ travel. Any thoughts and opinions will be welcomed!

I'd feel that tony81's post above paints a worst case scenario of travelling but he does make some valid points.

Most people I know went travelling for a year, granted most people follow the same route, head out to south east asia travel around there for 4-6 weeks, live on a beach in thailand and then make their way to australia and do the working holiday visa thing, at the end of the year decide to try for another visa or come home.


I'm not going to consider any of the 'what happens if there's a family emergency/what if you don't like it etc' but do you have any idea of what you would do for three years? It is quite a substantial amount of time, do you have funds for a few months if you don't have work? Have you thought about where you would go for three years? Are you planning on travelling several different countries, or just one or two? What are your work options realistically?

Is teaching something you actually want to do or something you've just been considering, it's expensive to do the course 6-7k and there's poor job prospects in teaching at the moment.

Tatankbull

Thanks Shampooman, Tony, Rainbowtrout and Elisabelis for your feedback. I’d love to agree with Shampooman’s that travel brings its own benefits, and that since I’ve no major responsibilities at this stage it would do no harm to travel but of course I’d be picking the advice that I want to hear (not to say it’s without merit). I know the dangers of coming back in a few years and being long-term unemployed, etc.

I think finding a happy medium between Shampooman’s, Tony81’s advice would be to do TEFL abroad and use that to not only travel a few different countries but to build up some experience in the field. I don’t know how much TEFL teaching experience is regarded and if there’s a possibility of building up a career in it but it’s something I’ll be checking into tonight. Maybe one year doing TEFL teaching, one year travelling, one year back to TEFL and using any savings then to put towards a hdip course at home.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts!

wylo

You only live once OP, I would go, you've no kids so nobody is depending on you but I would have a return plan financially.Just money put aside to prepare for any potential problems.

Do you have to commit to 3 years? could you consider a year and review it coming to the end of the year.

The TEFL idea sounds good,

There is alot more to your development than career. Travelling is an extremely healthy and liberating thing to do and you may return with a much more solid plan of what you want to do with yourself.

If the itch is there, go imo, whether your 20 or 50 or 80, so long as it doesnt affect anyone else, there is literally nothing stopping you.

Tatankbull

Tatankbull wrote: »

Thanks Shampooman, Tony, Rainbowtrout and Elisabelis for your feedback. I’d love to agree with Shampooman’s that travel brings its own benefits, and that since I’ve no major responsibilities at this stage it would do no harm to travel but of course I’d be picking the advice that I want to hear (not to say it’s without merit). I know the dangers of coming back in a few years and being long-term unemployed, etc.

I think finding a happy medium between Shampooman’s, Tony81’s advice would be to do TEFL abroad and use that to not only travel a few different countries but to build up some experience in the field. I don’t know how much TEFL teaching experience is regarded and if there’s a possibility of building up a career in it but it’s something I’ll be checking into tonight. Maybe one year doing TEFL teaching, one year travelling, one year back to TEFL and using any savings then to put towards a hdip course at home.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts!

Have you any idea what the pay is like in TEFL? It's hard to even live on it in most countries, let alone save anything to travel or to come home with. I've been working in TEFL for several years and it's taken me well over a year to save up enough for plane tickets and first month costs in a Latin American country. The money I'll make over there will barely be enough to live on. Even here in London, I'm pretty much living paycheck to paycheck and I'm at a good school and have a lot of experience. If my job were secure (and it isn't - if business gets any worse, I could be out the door with a week's notice) - I probably wouldn't leave.

The only places you can realistically make OK money as a TEFL beginner are places like the Middle East, where you have to make huge compromises re lifestyle, or South Korea, where your money goes far while you're there, but once you convert it back to euros, is barely anything. I think you may be being a bit unrealistic about what you can expect to earn.

wylo

Eva Dirty Salami wrote: »

The only places you can realistically make OK money as a TEFL beginner are places like the Middle East, where you have to make huge compromises re lifestyle, or South Korea, where your money goes far while you're there, but once you convert it back to euros, is barely anything. I think you may be being a bit unrealistic about what you can expect to earn.

I think the idea is to travel to these places like South Korea and let the TEFL money be your living money so your not spending your saved cash, not to mention getting good experience. Its better than most travellers who ONLY spend their saved money.

Tatankbull

wylo wrote: »

I think the idea is to travel to these places like South Korea and let the TEFL money be your living money so your not spending your saved cash, not to mention getting good experience. Its better than most travellers who ONLY spend their saved money.

Exactly. I'm not planning on becoming rich while away- having enough to travel Latin America after a year of TEFL, or even just surviving on teaching money for a few years while experiencing different cultures is enough. And from what I gather from the opinions of the majority of replies is that I'll still be progressing in the field of teaching, I'd still be gaining experience and building up my cv.

It's not a well thought out plan obviously but it's just another possibility of reducing the chance of causing myself long term harm while getting the chance to see the world a bit while I'm still relatively young.

LilyFly

OP, another thing to bear in mind (and a teacher may be able to correct me on this) is that after the 2013/14 academic year it might no longer be possible to do the Hdip in one year in Ireland. I think it's being expanded to two years everywhere, if I'm not mistaken. If so, you might be advised to try and get it done in one year while you can ... something to look into anyway.

Good luck with your decision.

Tatankbull

LilyFly wrote: »

OP, another thing to bear in mind (and a teacher may be able to correct me on this) is that after the 2013/14 academic year it might no longer be possible to do the Hdip in one year in Ireland. I think it's being expanded to two years everywhere, if I'm not mistaken. If so, you might be advised to try and get it done in one year while you can ... something to look into anyway.

Good luck with your decision.

I haven't heard about that... I'm going to look into it. It could mean staying to do this immediately might be the better option. Thanks.

Ellsbells

TEFL compared to teaching in a secondary school (or even primary) is like cooking breakfast at home versus working in a cordon bleu kitchen .....

It's not worth a damn to you as the people doing the language courses abroad are generally adults who want to be there and not teenagers who don't.

Sounds like you can't be swayed so good luck.

JCC

OP, I was 27 when I decided to do what you're thinking of doing. In 2008 I decided I wanted to take a year out and go travel across Europe and Australia. I'd gone straight from college into a full time job five years previously, and I had plenty of savings to see me through the year.

Things I learned from my year out:

Plan! If you do a little bit of planning you're money and time will be better spent. I'm a very organised person, and I planned enough so I had six good months before I had to start thinking about getting a part-time job to top up my finances. Always try keep an emergency fund of a few grand in the bank, for ya know, emergencies.

If you want to travel, make sure you do it! I don't understand why people give up a decent job in order to go to a different country and work there instead! I made my way across Oz in the year I was there, saw so much of the country, and I was able to work if I needed to and still see everything I wanted to!

Be prepared to come back to nothing. I left a fairly decent job only to come back to a very different Ireland in 2010. I was lucky enough to get a job after three weeks, even if it was about half the pay I'd been on before, and it's honestly taken me until now to get some kind of savings together and get back to where I was before leaving.

Having said that, I loved every minute I was away. Waking up in the morning with no obligations and nowhere to be was the best feeling in the world. Every day is your own, nobody decides anything for you and you can freely go anywhere you want. I'd do it all again, even though I came home broke!

if it's something you want to do, now is the time for you to go! 31 is nowhere near too old to go anywhere, and you don't want to be sitting there at 41 regretting not travelling while you were youinger!

ash23

I could be wrong but aren't a lot of working holiday visas only for under 30s? I'm 30 this year and I know a number of my friends went last year to Australia etc for the year so that they could do it before they turned 30.

It might only be relevant to Australia and NZ but I'd certainly look into it OP in case there are age limits for short term working visas in other countries.

rainbowtrout

ash23 wrote: »

I could be wrong but aren't a lot of working holiday visas only for under 30s? I'm 30 this year and I know a number of my friends went last year to Australia etc for the year so that they could do it before they turned 30.

It might only be relevant to Australia and NZ but I'd certainly look into it OP in case there are age limits for short term working visas in other countries.

For Australia it is. The under 30 working holiday visa is open to pretty much anyone once they have enough money in the bank going out there. The over 30s have to meet stricter criteria, i.e. be qualified in certain areas where there are job shortages in Australia. Don't know what the deal is for NZ.

Angeles

tony81 wrote: »

Be careful..

You're setting aside 3 years for "simply messing about" (aka travelling)?

You're a bit old for that!!

1. There's a chance you'll exhaust your savings within 3 months of trying to get established in a new city and job hunt.
2. Even if you find work you there's a good chance you'd be making more money in Ireland.
3. You won't get into teaching abroad.
4. Your may lose contact with friends while you're away, or worse, end up living at home via facebook.
5. You'll probably end up hanging out with Irish people abroad.
6. It can also be costly to get home for emergencies like family illnesses or deaths.
7. You're facing unemployment when you get home.
8. Most "travellers" (to the likes of australia) are in their early 20s. They really aren't that interesting.. Go to a nightclub on student night and you'll see how much fun you could be having.

Sorry for the negativity! But packing everything in to "mess around for three years" probably won't work out for you.

I wouldn't say this attitude is just negative or realistic, its downright depressing. Honestly OP if you were diagnosed with a terminal illness next year and told you had a few months left to live, what would you then regret?

Traveling is something we should all do and no, you are certainly NOT to old, what a rediculas statement to make for a person of 31. If you were pushing 60 this statement would make more sense, as you'd be right to be more apprehensive about this for health and safety reasons.
This attitude of life ends at 30 really, Really needs to stop.
Op if you have enough savings and this is something you want to do, then DO IT, goals like this are never something to regret. And considering you are in fact in your 30's, you have more life experience and knowledge of what to expect in that you can plan much much better should you go for a long term duration.

As for career? A lot of people these days after hitting 35 tend to go back to school to take up an entirely new career, and rightfully so. To top that, who's to say in 3 years time you won't already be teaching? who's to say it would even be in Ireland?

pastorbarrett

What's important here OP is to make a decision based on the best information available to you, i.e. an informed decision!

Concerning successful travel on a budget, my experience is meticulous planning is what makes it successful. While it may seem boring and restrictive to do so, a good plan really sets you free to enjoy your time away. Of course it's impossible to accommodate for every conceivable outcome, but some questions you could ask yourself are the following:

-Where do I want to travel to/ what do I want to while there?

-How much will my initial expenses (flights, vaccinations, luggage, gear etc) be? How much will my cost of living be on a regular daily basis?

-Is there career I can dip in and out of whilst away to support myself if needs be? Perhaps a CELTA/ TEFL may be of use.

Regarding your return, and though it may be down the road if you decide to travel, you will have to consider the following at some point:

-Cost of living, rent, place to live when you get back...

-How much will further education/ college be? Check start dates, application times for course, previous qualifications needed, interview prep etc.

Ok, so this approach may be overly cautious and seem constrictive, but it's a potential life change and I think it's worth investing the necessary time to make it as successful (and fun!) as possible.

Regarding your age, it's a moot point- who cares what age you are or 'should be' to travel. As another poster said travel is applicable to anybody who wants to do it, regardless of age.

I wish you the best of luck with your decision! Do what's right for you :cool:

tony81

meridiangroup wrote: »

What's important here OP is to make a decision based on the best information available to you, i.e. an informed decision!

Meridiangroup, a this is a much better response to my gloomy one and much better than people who say "let the devil be damned, go for it."

Let's not forget that Ireland isn't doing so well right now.. education can only get more expensive, entry requirements will get higher (e.g. honours maths for primary teaching) the dole can only be cut further... Ireland could be a very gloomy country to return to without work!

I went travelling a few times before and while I feel I improved in some ways, it really set my career back & I wish I had the maturity to get qualifications before I actually headed off.

I know several people who went abroad only to return home 4 months later, penniless (having blown €5-10k, unemployed and living back with their parents. The people I know who went abroad and got on really well often had contacts abroad or were skilled workers. (Two exceptions were unskilled friends who met aussie girls while on working holiday visas and settled down in Australia.. an option which won't apply to everyone! and besides, the op is too old for a working holiday visa)

I just think, if the op has substantial savings he could achieve so much in three years.. career goals, a few trips of a lifetime (taken during annual leave), or perhaps some volunteer work or TEFL abroad as a career break (arranged before heading off).

leeroybrown

rainbowtrout wrote: »

For Australia it is. The under 30 working holiday visa is open to pretty much anyone once they have enough money in the bank going out there. The over 30s have to meet stricter criteria, i.e. be qualified in certain areas where there are job shortages in Australia. Don't know what the deal is for NZ.

For Australia you can apply while you're 30 (ie. up until the day you turn 31) and have 12 months to activate the visa by entering Australia from the grant date so if you apply on time you can be almost 32 before you start your trip. The OP obviously falls outside this.

New Zealand and most other countries have the same 18-30 age range for applicants. Japan and South Korea are 18-25. Canada is an outlier that may interest the OP as it has an extended range of 18-35 for some countries including Ireland.

tony81 wrote: »

You're a bit old for that!!

There are some valid points in your posts but this is rubbish. Loads of people in their 30s have a great time backpacking around the world. If it's your thing then it's a great lifestyle for a couple of years.

OP. If you do decide to do this I'd advise the following:

1) Make sure you go for the right reasons.
2) Put some real thought into where you'll go, what you'll do and how you'll fund it.
3) Put aside a rainy day fund here in Ireland before you go. A few years away sounds like too long to plan for but it isn't. If you travel for three years you might come home broke, unemployed and with no social welfare entitlements.


I would advise you against 'feckless' travel but I'd also say that a well planned trip with enough scope to do the kind of messing about you mention would be well worth it.

tony81

leeroybrown wrote: »

OP. If you do decide to do this I'd advise the following:

1) Make sure you go for the right reasons.

Another very good point. A vague sense of unhappiness at home is not really a good enough reason. Using travel as a disruptive exercise where you simply fold your hand and hope you get dealt a better hand next time is really not a good enough reason to do it.

Op, you probably will get something out of travelling. Planning will decide exactly how much, and whether it was worthwhile.

dearg lady

Do you definitely want to go long term OP? I've done bits of travelling over the years, my longest trip was 10 weeks, and I prefer doing it this way. I'm quite good at finding cheap flights and living cheap when I'm away, so it's not prohibitively expensive. Would there be an option to take a few months off from your job?
I believe you're never too old to travel, but do still be sensible about, explore all options

Tatankbull

I don't think I'm being pushed, it's more of a pull towards travel and living abroad. I'm not unhappy but I just know it could be better. But I agree with everyone that planning is the key to any major trip. I do plan to research everything and I've no problem having a three year itinerary (as much as that's possible).

It's funny, all my friends encourage me to do this but I know none of them would do it themselves. They wouldn't give up their cars, nights out, etc in the long-term even though they claim they'd love to be in my position. That's why I wanted to find out the opinions of people in here and see if there might be more honest and practical suggestions and opinions!

therealme

GO FOR IT! Life is short, enjoy it! NO REGRETS.

Have not read all the posts but have you requested leave from work?? Worth a try.

You can always come back - if you have ambition, you will ALWAYS find work.

Best of luck.

dearg lady

I'm sorry to go on about the idea of a shorter trip, but it's unusual for someone who's done little or no travelling to decide to head off for 3 years. You may find that you're not happy away, so I would move with caution.

Tatankbull

Tatankbull wrote: »

Exactly. I'm not planning on becoming rich while away- having enough to travel Latin America after a year of TEFL, or even just surviving on teaching money for a few years while experiencing different cultures is enough. And from what I gather from the opinions of the majority of replies is that I'll still be progressing in the field of teaching, I'd still be gaining experience and building up my cv.

It's not a well thought out plan obviously but it's just another possibility of reducing the chance of causing myself long term harm while getting the chance to see the world a bit while I'm still relatively young.

I doubt you'd have enough to travel Latin America for a year after a year of TEFL. You would be able to have a good lifestyle in South Korea, as in you'd be able to eat out all the time, buy clothes, go drinking etc, but most people working over there see very little of the culture because of unsociable working hours. I've researched a lot of places and from what I can see, you choose between making OK money but having no life and having the lifestyle but making no money.

Ellsbells wrote: »

TEFL compared to teaching in a secondary school (or even primary) is like cooking breakfast at home versus working in a cordon bleu kitchen .....

It's not worth a damn to you as the people doing the language courses abroad are generally adults who want to be there and not teenagers who don't.

Sounds like you can't be swayed so good luck.

Sigh. Another ignorant comment from someone who knows nothing about TEFL. Loads of people in TEFL teach children and teenagers who don't want to be there. There are all kinds of TEFL schools and classes, from the stereotypical 'General English' for adults who fancy doing a bit of language learning in their spare time to kids classes to business classes to serious exam classes like IELTS and FCE. It really isn't the Mickey Mouse job a lot of people seem to think it is.

Naid23

If its what you want then GO FOR IT!...

A job is not the Be all and end all of your life!...

Taking the leap myself next year cause I know if I don't I will big time regret it! You read on here of so many people that regret not doing it, dont be one of them if you really want this.

Live the life you want and not the one you think you should.

Tatankbull

Naid23 wrote: »

If its what you want then GO FOR IT!...

A job is not the Be all and end all of your life!...

Taking the leap myself next year cause I know if I don't I will big time regret it! You read on here of so many people that regret not doing it, dont be one of them if you really want this.

Live the life you want and not the one you think you should.

Thanks for this advice Naid. Can I ask for any details about your own trip? Why are you going? Are you around the same age as me? Do you plan to spend years away?

Wompa1

3 years is a bit much. I moved to America 6 months ago. It might not be an age thing, could just be a personality thing. But I haven't gone to nightclubs in years. I don't drink much any more and haven't really been drinking much over the last few years. So I'm here now and I've explored the area and that's cool. It was nice for the last 6 months but now I'm at the stage where I feel like I've done it now and kind of want to get back to a normal life.

I don't feel like going out to clubs..I think people who go travel tend to go get drunk and get laid. I don't think many go to see the sights. I don't want to get drunk or laid anymore. Bored with that side of life. I think I'm going to take 3 months to drive across America and then settle down and use my holiday time from work to go see places of interest

Naid23

Tatankbull wrote: »

Thanks for this advice Naid. Can I ask for any details about your own trip? Why are you going? Are you around the same age as me? Do you plan to spend years away?

Plan is to travel around asia for at least 4-6 months and then onto OZ for the year before travelling through south/North America.

I'm 23 but feel like I'm 33 at this stage, Have wanted to travel since I was 16 but have always been waiting on other people so decided to just book a one way flight to Bangkok and sure enough one of my mates decides to join , I also have this weird fear of being 'Settled'. I've been with my BF for 7 years and we just short of moving in together and settling down and its just not what I want. Have a brilliant well paid job for my age but it it just aint making me happy.
All my sisters have had kids in the last year which has kinda spurred me on to book it and go (Dont get me wrong I love my family/BF but just aint into staying at home and having kids etc. )

The BF and I have talked about travelling for a long time but he's happy here and it aint the right time for him to go so thats why I'm heading off so we both able to do what we want rather then one scaraficing their happiness for the other - cos ultimately we would end up miserable and hating each other.

PM me if you wanna chat, would love to hear what your planning.

Have you considered taking unpaid / extended leave from your work to go travelling say going to south america at Christmas and finishing up in Rio for carnival?

I was abroad for several years in my 20s but I know a few people who go on 2 to 4 week holidays, see the sights, experience the region and then come home to start saving for the next trip. Those guys have been to some random places well off the normal Irish backpacker route.

If you are away for three years you might not meet the habitual residency clause if you were dependent on social welfare or back to education when you return.

Teaching lends itself to travel, traveling doesn't lend itself to training as a teacher.

Tatankbull

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you considered taking unpaid / extended leave from your work to go travelling say going to south america at Christmas and finishing up in Rio for carnival?

It just wouldn't happen in my job, unfortunately. But that's a very creative idea- going to South America and finishing up at Carnival! And I know the dangers of losing that habitual residency status. It's a huge part of my concerns and probably owuld be one of the deciding factors on me not travelling for a long period of time.

And Wompa1, I think I'd be like you abroad. I wouldn't be interested in drinking away all memories of the country I'm in, I'd enjoy exploring the culture for 6 months or a year and then leaving afterwards.

I'm probably just repeating myself but I'm realising that at my age maybe travel isn't the wrong choice, it just needs to be planned well, and maybe fitted into a career path so it looks like I'm gaining experience and progressing, etc.