CVT and tyres

smiley girl

Hi All,
Our van is due the DOE or CVT as it's now called and we got 4 new tyres about a month ago. They are rethreads and they are different brands. Will this be a problem for the test? I've been looking at the RSA website and can't find anything on this.
Any help will be a great help!

Nissan doctor

smiley girl wrote: »

Hi All,
Our van is due the DOE or CVT as it's now called and we got 4 new tyres about a month ago. They are rethreads and they are different brands. Will this be a problem for the test? I've been looking at the RSA website and can't find anything on this.
Any help will be a great help!

As long as they are the correct load rating for the van then they will pass unfortunately.

Why anyone would want to drive a vehicle with 4 odd rethreads on it is another issue.

smiley girl

Nissan doctor wrote: »

As long as they are the correct load rating for the van then they will pass unfortunately.

Why anyone would want to drive a vehicle with 4 odd rethreads on it is another issue.

Thank you for your reply. Hardly unfortunate for me though.

Nissan doctor

smiley girl wrote: »

Thank you for your reply. Hardly unfortunate for me though.

It is, you still have to drive a van that will handle terribly and be dangerous in the wet...or are you the owner making some unfortunate employee drive it?

Thankfully the NCT at least(presumably the DOE will follow) will be enforcing stricter rules on tyre safety shortly.

smiley girl

Nissan doctor wrote: »

It is, you still have to drive a van that will handle terribly and be dangerous in the wet...or are you the owner making some unfortunate employee drive it?

Thankfully the NCT at least(presumably the DOE will follow) will be enforcing stricter rules on tyre safety shortly.

I take your point, thank you. Yes the DOE are enforcing stricter rules. These tyres of mine are only til late September / early October but the van has to be tested before that, unfortunately.

There is no employee, unfortunate or otherwise.

BeardyGit

Ah yes, the usual twaddle about retreads.... You wouldn't happen to spend a large part of your day in a tyre fitting centre by any chance now Nissan Doctor, would you? You've assumed a lot and assert that the vehicle in question will handle terribly and even prove dangerous - ridiculous to do so and in all honesty you should and probably do know better.

Smiley Girl, as long as they meet the testers requirements you're good to go. Don't let what I suspect to be the biased opinion of someone with a vested professional interest deter you for one minute. Standards exist these days within the tyre supply industry in the EU to dispell the myth that retreads are inherently dangerous. They're not. From heavy road freight and agriculture, down to LGV's and family cars, retreads have their place. Even tier 1 manufacturers such as Michelin supply cold retreading compounds and moulds for commercial and military tyres. Ignore the scaremongers when they obviously don't even know their own industries manufacturer approved processes.

Nissan doctor

BeardyGit wrote: »

Ah yes, the usual twaddle about retreads.... You wouldn't happen to spend a large part of your day in a tyre fitting centre by any chance now Nissan Doctor, would you? You've assumed a lot and assert that the vehicle in question will handle terribly and even prove dangerous - ridiculous to do so and in all honesty you should and probably do know better.

Smiley Girl, as long as they meet the testers requirements you're good to go. Don't let what I suspect to be the biased opinion of someone with a vested professional interest deter you for one minute. Standards exist these days within the tyre supply industry in the EU to dispell the myth that retreads are inherently dangerous. They're not. From heavy road freight and agriculture, down to LGV's and family cars, retreads have their place. Even tier 1 manufacturers such as Michelin supply cold retreading compounds and moulds for commercial and military tyres. Ignore the scaremongers when they obviously don't even know their own industries manufacturer approved processes.

Truck tyres are designed to be rethreaded...car/light van tyres are not and NO light passenger vehicle tyre manufacturers approve of or supply any supplies/equipment for rethreading for these type of tyres.

I have no vested interest, I couldn't give a monkeys what tyres the OP wan't to drive on. My comments are based on Ireland's typical 'ah it'll be grand' attitude to anything motoring or safety related and once we can scrape our vehicles through a test then we are happy. In most other countries in Europe, have odd tyres on the same axle is illegal and driving on odd tyres, which will have different grip levels, WILL effect handling in a negative manor.

BeardyGit

I believe you'll find that truck tyres are designed to be 're-grooved', NOT retreaded. This is an entirely different process as you know. Inspect the sidewall on any commercial driven tyre and you'll see it says 're-grooveable', not retreadable.

Re-grooving for those who don't know involves recutting a tread pattern using a kind of hot-knife with a special cutter. It's a crude enough way to extend the service life of a tyre. Manufacturers make the tyre thick enough to allow you deepen the tread once it's worn down. Simple enough.

The process involved in retreading a tyre is extensive and includes a great number of quality control measures involving sophisticated laser imagery, manual inspection and measurement for rotational defects etc. Once the process is adhered to then there are no inherent quality or safety concerns for the average user, despite what you may say.

Odd tyres are fitted to a vast number of vehicles on Irish roads. I'd point out that this is not the responsibility of the majority of road users, but that of the majority of tyre fitters in this country.

I know for a fact that tyre centres and their employees are incentivised to sell particular premium brand tyres or the budget brands owned by the same suppliers, often due to those chains holding distribution or agency agreements with a limited number of brands.

Premium tyres WILL be pushed on customers by the vast majority of tyre centres, based largely on this type of scaremongering.

Personally I'd rather see a set of EU made retreads with the same pattern than a Dunlop, Semperit, Continental and Bridgestone on the same car. Seriously, tell me which is better, eh? And who's responsible for propagating the myth that retreads are dangerous, unpredictable etc? Your segment of the motor industry are, that's who. It's old pub talk, nothing more.

Nissan doctor

BeardyGit wrote: »

I believe you'll find that truck tyres are designed to be 're-grooved', NOT retreaded. This is an entirely different process as you know. Inspect the sidewall on any commercial driven tyre and you'll see it says 're-grooveable', not retreadable.

Re-grooving for those who don't know involves recutting a tread pattern using a kind of hot-knife with a special cutter. It's a crude enough way to extend the service life of a tyre. Manufacturers make the tyre thick enough to allow you deepen the tread once it's worn down. Simple enough.

The process involved in retreading a tyre is extensive and includes a great number of quality control measures involving sophisticated laser imagery, manual inspection and measurement for rotational defects etc. Once the process is adhered to then there are no inherent quality or safety concerns for the average user, despite what you may say.

Odd tyres are fitted to a vast number of vehicles on Irish roads. I'd point out that this is not the responsibility of the majority of road users, but that of the majority of tyre fitters in this country.

I know for a fact that tyre centres and their employees are incentivised to sell particular premium brand tyres or the budget brands owned by the same suppliers, often due to those chains holding distribution or agency agreements with a limited number of brands.

Premium tyres WILL be pushed on customers by the vast majority of tyre centres, based largely on this type of scaremongering.

Personally I'd rather see a set of EU made retreads with the same pattern than a Dunlop, Semperit, Continental and Bridgestone on the same car. Seriously, tell me which is better, eh? And who's responsible for propagating the myth that retreads are dangerous, unpredictable etc? Your segment of the motor industry are, that's who. It's old pub talk, nothing more.

What is 'my segment of the motor industry' exactly?

If you are so knowalageble on the subject, you will be well aware that having threads that 'look' like a dunlop etc means absolutely nothing about how the tyre will perform.


So what your saying is that rethreads(even if you can prove that they have come from a certified rethreading center) and likely cheaper chinese tyres, are just as good as premium brands and the only reason anyone would buy a premium tyres is because if was forced on them by a tyre outlet?

BeardyGit

Nissan doctor wrote: »

What is 'my segment of the motor industry' exactly?

If you are so knowalageble on the subject, you will be well aware that having threads that 'look' like a dunlop etc means absolutely nothing about how the tyre will perform.


So what your saying is that rethreads(even if you can prove that they have come from a certified rethreading center) and likely cheaper chinese tyres, are just as good as premium brands and the only reason anyone would buy a premium tyres is because if was forced on them by a tyre outlet?

Your segment? Atlas, Quikfit, Advance Pitstop and similar centres primarily catering for tyres, exhausts, brakes and servicing. Your qualifications may extend beyond that but I'm hardly holding you personally responsible for the behaviour of an entire corner of the industry in fairness.

What I'm saying? I thought I'd said it already, no? Okay then....

Here it is - You'd be better off buying a decent set of retreads with a matched pattern rather than having a mixture of different tread depth and pattern 'premium' tyres on your car. At least with the retreads you'd have a predictable level of performance, they'd have decent and matched tread depth etc.

Whereas if you go with the tyre fitters recommendation on an older car you'll most likely have 4 different brands, varying tread depth and differing patterns, all affecting level of grip.

I've never heard a tyre fitter tell a customer to buy two budget tyres instead of one premium tyre in the event a tyre needed swapping, even if it's not actually the best option for the customers budget and needs.

Nissan doctor

BeardyGit wrote: »

Your segment? Atlas, Quikfit, Advance Pitstop and similar centres primarily catering for tyres, exhausts, brakes and servicing. Your qualifications may extend beyond that but I'm hardly holding you personally responsible for the behaviour of an entire corner of the industry in fairness.

What I'm saying? I thought I'd said it already, no? Okay then....

Here it is - You'd be better off buying a decent set of retreads with a matched pattern rather than having a mixture of different tread depth and pattern 'premium' tyres on your car. At least with the retreads you'd have a predictable level of performance, they'd have decent and matched tread depth etc.

Whereas if you go with the tyre fitters recommendation on an older car you'll most likely have 4 different brands, varying tread depth and differing patterns, all affecting level of grip.

I've never heard a tyre fitter tell a customer to buy two budget tyres instead of one premium tyre in the event a tyre needed swapping, even if it's not actually the best option for the customers budget and needs.

You must not have much experience with professional garages then.

BeardyGit

More than enough for a lifetime.

Tigger

There's a thread in the main forum on what one hates in motors
This thread sums it up

Tyres&brakes then suspension are immensely important to saftey and handling in a motor vehicle. Saying that retreads and ditch finder brands are a good idea is acually irresponsible and irrisponsaible crap is why this sub forum was originally 1 denied then 2 private

Load of balls and also borderline slanderous crap saying that ND cares what you spend on tyres

BeardyGit

Tigger wrote: »

There's a thread in the main forum on what one hates in motors
This thread sums it up

Tyres&brakes then suspension are immensely important to saftey and handling in a motor vehicle. Saying that retreads and ditch finder brands are a good idea is acually irresponsible and irrisponsaible crap is why this sub forum was originally 1 denied then 2 private

Load of balls and also borderline slanderous crap saying that ND cares what you spend on tyres

Slanderous me arse. It's ignorance that has Joe Public believing everything he's told about retreads in the first place. It's also ignorance that has tyre fitters up and down the country misleading their customers about the dangers of buying whatever they're not selling and using outdated and irrelevant information to scare customers into spending more than they need. Times are tight and it's about time both the trade and the public woke up to the fact that not everyone needs premium branded H rated tyres. Suggesting otherwise would be akin to saying we should all use coilovers and EBC green stuff pads as we're all driving on motorways. Get a grip and show some common sense and real world perspective will you?

Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of truck tyres on 30+ Ton vehicles surrounding us on the roads in the UK and Ireland are retreads, the average gob****e here is still scared to even recognise they're a viable option in many cases. With tyre prices greatly increased and many families incomes reduced, the industry continues to tell folks that a perfectly safe option (and I'm not talking about high performance type applications here) is dangerous. It's a load of me bollix.

George Dalton

Retread tyes are dangerous and should be illegal IMO. For that reason we do not supply or fit them. IT is nothing to do with profit or money, it is just that I personally wouldn't be happy supplying substandard parts to my customers as in the long run it is in nobody's interests to do so.

Beardygit your views are very cynical, did you ever consider the possibility that tyre retailers and fitters know far more about tyres than the average motorist and that any advice they give should actually be taken on board rather than dismissed. Some businesses will act in the customer's best interest rather than merely a way to maximise profit.

Incidentally a lot of tyre retailers make just as much if not more profit on budget tyres as they do on premium branded tyres, which means that it is actually in their interest to sell the budget tyres rather than the premium tyres as on average the budget tyres will wear out faster and the customer will be back for a new set sooner.

Finally, consider this. I have driven thousands of cars, all shapes and sizes, on all types of tyres, in all types of weather. That means my opinion counts for something. Whenever I buy tyres I put my money where my mouth is and I buy premium tyres.

BeardyGit

I've driven many hundreds of thousands of miles myself, so just like you, my experience also counts for something. Likewise I have 'inside knowledge' in relation to the bonus structures applied to the sales of particular tyre brands through a national chain of tyre and service centres. Incentives are provided for in order to ensure the premium brands outsell budget and secondary sourced tyre ranges, and I can assure you that it's ALL ABOUT the margins.

Getting down to the crux of the disagreement, some retread tyres are dangerous. Some first generation tyres are just as dangerous. To dismiss all retreads as automatically dangerous is foolish and doesn't take into account the intended use and requisite performance characteristics of the vehicle onto which they are to be fitted, along with cost impact for either a family or a commercial operator.

There's no point in anyone here immediately passing judgement on anyone who finds themselves in a similar position to the OP simply because the choice was made to fit remoulds. None of you nor I have been given the criteria used in selection and ultimately there's little point in taking anything other than a case by case approach to that decision.

It's bad form to try to brand someone the way ND did in relation to running a dangerous vehicle or forcing an employee to do so simply because it's fitted with retreads. If that can't be acknowledged then it's fairly clear that the tyre industry is having its way, and that people are happy to lap up the propaganda.

Things have moved on in leaps and bounds since everyones oul lads, uncles and grandfathers started giving out ****e about retreads back in the 70's and 80's, the last time this country found itself in a position where motorists had to control running costs. It's crazy to think that nobody's even bothered to educate themselves regarding the advancements and acknowledge that retreads most definately have a place on our roads today.... I'm not going to even start on the environmental benefits alone.

Nissan doctor

BeardyGit wrote: »

I've driven many hundreds of thousands of miles myself, so just like you, my experience also counts for something. Likewise I have 'inside knowledge' in relation to the bonus structures applied to the sales of particular tyre brands through a national chain of tyre and service centres. Incentives are provided for in order to ensure the premium brands outsell budget and secondary sourced tyre ranges, and I can assure you that it's ALL ABOUT the margins.

Maybe the problem is the national chain you have experience with?

The chain that I'll make an educated guess that your talking about is not doing very well these days and a quick search on here shows very unfavourable opinions of their service.

Perhaps other garages do have the best interest of the customer in mind and don't have any bonus schemes based on sales of any particular product? Perhaps some Garages are not actually owned/operated as a front to a tyre manufacturer(Continental for example!) and so have no vested interests?

Your opinions say only one thing, you may well have worked in the industry, but you are not a trained professional in the industry.

BeardyGit

It's most certainly not limited to the particular chain you're referring to, although I'll acknowledge that dealing with them is where the bulk of my personal experience specifically in relation to tyre suppliers has come from. And you're correct, I'm most certainly not a trained professional in the motor industry, but that's largely irrelevant in relation to the points I'm making.

In relation to the apparent cynicism in my posts on this matter, I'm afraid I am indeed cynical of the tyre industry from manufacturer through to resellers and fitters. Very often I've seen the poorly paid fitters push customers to purchase tyres that are excessive for that particular end users needs and in most cases it's down to depot bonuses and individual commissions. There's no point in denying it's widespread, particularly as individual depots and managers come under the cosh to improve margins and sales performances, although I'd certainly take your word for it that it wouldn't be your way of doing things - That's fair enough.

Would you mind clarifying something for me perhaps? Are you a qualified mechanic or are you approaching this from a related trade or training background?

Nissan doctor

BeardyGit wrote: »

Would you mind clarifying something for me perhaps? Are you a qualified mechanic or are you approaching this from a related trade or training background?

Currently qualified to level 3 diagnostic technician level with numerous specific manufacturer cetifications in various area's....including tyres.

bren11

BeardyGit wrote: »

Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of truck tyres on 30+ Ton vehicles surrounding us on the roads in the UK and Ireland are retreads, the average gob****e here is still scared to even recognise they're a viable option in many cases. With tyre prices greatly increased and many families incomes reduced, the industry continues to tell folks that a perfectly safe option (and I'm not talking about high performance type applications here) is dangerous. It's a load of me bollix.

I dont think that the figure is that high, all the big fleets have tyre contracts with the manufacturers. Only good quality casings go to rethreads with Bandag etc
Two types of truck tyres with different thread patterns, steers and drives. DOE test does not allow retreads on front steering axle. Drive axles have twin wheels on each side, so if there is a blowout there is still one beside it, not ideal, I know.

BeardyGit

I've had Landrovers pass LGV tests several times on a variety of remoulds, which are clearly labelled as such on the sidewalls. Might indeed be different for HGV's though and given the loading under braking/steering I could understand why.

Of course, there's a difference too, retread vs remould. Retreads replace the wear surface, remould reskin the entire carcass. I suspect the OP's van are remoulds though...

smiley girl

BeardyGit wrote: »

Ah yes, the usual twaddle about retreads.... You wouldn't happen to spend a large part of your day in a tyre fitting centre by any chance now Nissan Doctor, would you? You've assumed a lot and assert that the vehicle in question will handle terribly and even prove dangerous - ridiculous to do so and in all honesty you should and probably do know better.

Smiley Girl, as long as they meet the testers requirements you're good to go. Don't let what I suspect to be the biased opinion of someone with a vested professional interest deter you for one minute. Standards exist these days within the tyre supply industry in the EU to dispell the myth that retreads are inherently dangerous. They're not. From heavy road freight and agriculture, down to LGV's and family cars, retreads have their place. Even tier 1 manufacturers such as Michelin supply cold retreading compounds and moulds for commercial and military tyres. Ignore the scaremongers when they obviously don't even know their own industries manufacturer approved processes.

Thank you BeardyGit, I appreciate your comments. I have since went to garage where I know a guy and he said that yes my tyres are up to the standard. So it looks like I'm good to go!
Thanks again.