Nasal Spray - Suicide Prevention

joe1976

I'm really not that good when it comes to researching information so I'm hoping some can contribute constructively.

I read a recent story about Nasal Spray being used to prevent suicide in the US army.

According to the story linked above, suicide in the US army doubled for July 2012 and the DoD paid $3 million for a study which concluded that some kind of nasal spray would solve the problem.

Being someone who sufferred from depression and at times having thoughts of suicide, this story really perplexed me because I've never heard of nasal spray being used to treat depression.

Now, I haven't looked into this much but would It be crazy to think this nasal spray is some kind of military experiment?

Using history as my defense here, many army personnel throughout the years were told to take part in experiments which wouldn't harm them in anyway...but of course later on, we see that the military/government lied about the harmful effects of these experiments.

Just wondering what your theories are on this story...

As the suicide rate among soldiers climbs to the highest levels in history, the Army is hoping Americans might one day treat their mental health woes with a single sniff.

The Army has just handed a $3 million grant to researchers at the University of Indiana’s School of Medicine for the creation of an anti-suicide nasal spray. The project, to be led by Dr. Michael Kubek, an associate professor of neurobiology, is arguably one of the more unusual military efforts to thwart a record number of suicides among active-duty personnel and veterans.

Nonoperational

Don't see how it's a conspiracy theory?

It looks like there is some evidence that TRH may be involved in suicide or it's prevention. It seems the army have given some money towards researching it. Long long way to go before it would be at trial stage and I'd imagine it would have to go through the same process as any potential new medicine.

joe1976

Don't see how it's a conspiracy theory?

I'm asking for theories

Also, if you read the article, it states the delivery uses nanotechnology.

By harnessing new advancements in nanotechnology, however, Kubek’s research team has now devised nanoparticle drug-delivery systems, designed to dissolve over time inside the brain, that can safely usher TRH across the blood-brain barrier when inserted into the human nasal cavity.

In Feb 2012, Harvard scientists announced a breakthrough in Cancer treatment using Nanobots.

This treatment using Nasal spray could contain anything that would interact with how the human body functions, think of the nanobots as being able to control brain chemistry...brain chemistry controls behaviour of a person.

Because the military are using it, is it crazy to believe they might want the soliders to be more obedient with this technology?

If a solider is suicidal, is that not an indication that they need help and not experimental nanobots being put in their body? What kind of society are we becoming?

joe1976

As someone who suffers from depression and has attempted suicide i can
sympathise with what the U.S. army is trying to do. i think the current suicide
rate for the american army is 1 per day , so can understand why they are
proactive in trying ways to prevent it .

Why do you think there's 1 person per day killing themselves in the army?

Do you know what "smoking" is in military terms? -- no, it's not cigarettes.

joe1976

Why are these people suicidal? Should that not be the real concern right now?

Why do US soldiers kill themselves at a rate of 1 per day?

This to me would seem more important but...as always, the meagre US soldier is just worthless human being I guess?

"smoking" might be partially responsible for these suicides.

Is it normal for "tough" soldiers to be suicidal?

Most people I know involved with military are mentally ill and I say that without prejudice.

Most of the people I know joined the military DID pass the medical which DIDNT involve any psychometric evaluation or probation period and they DID go on to abuse and kill people because that's the nature of war.

War uses and inevitably creates ugly people which most people in society despise and don't want to acknowledge exist...

History only reveals these people but ears have short memories.

Jonny7

joe1976 wrote: »

Why are these people suicidal? Should that not be the real concern right now?

Why do US soldiers kill themselves at a rate of 1 per day?

This to me would seem more important but...as always, the meagre US soldier is just worthless human being I guess?

For a range of reasons, its been a big problem for awhile now, it affects other countries too, e.g. Russia. Young kids sign up with no clue and confronted with reality of violence, army life, etc.

The spray itself is at anti-depressant.

joe1976

The soldiers are suicidal because of the violence and the answer is to drug them then?

In the Russian army, soldiers are bullied psychologically and physically abused.

In the US, they call it "smoking" but it's basically the same thing.

Jonny7

joe1976 wrote: »

The soldiers are suicidal because of the violence and the answer is to drug them then?

It's not an answer, it's one solution to try to alleviate the problem. The suicide issue is a serious concern among the US military.

enno99

Jonny7 wrote: »

For a range of reasons, its been a big problem for awhile now, it affects other countries too, e.g. Russia. Young kids sign up with no clue and confronted with reality of violence, army life, etc.

The spray itself is at anti-depressant.

TRH (Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone)

Might also have other interesting uses

Aging-Reversing Properties of Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone (TRH)
Walter Pierpaoli, MD, PhD Interbion Foundation for Basic Biomedical Research, Via San Gottardo 77, 6596 Gordola, Switzerland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEl-zfFdtGg

mathepac

Jonny7 wrote: »

... The spray itself is at anti-depressant.

If as mentioned above, the nasal spray contains TRH only, TRH (aka TSH) is not in itself an anti-depressant. It is simply a hormone produced by the pituitary gland, and its action is to trigger the release of hormones from the thyroid. Excess TRH/TRS can reduce the amount of serotonin or/and dopamine in circulation which could in itself have depressive effects, IIRC.

TRH molecules are too large to cross the blood-brain barrier which as the article says, is why tablets or injections don't work. The nanotechnology they describe must be some kind of vehicle to transport "bots" carrying smaller molecules of TRH precursors across the blood-brain barrier. The "bots" on arrival then manufacture TRH from the raw materials they carry. (the bit in italics is speculation on my part)

Inhaled or "snorted" chemicals tend to reach their area of activity much faster than chemicals introduced to the body by other means which no doubt is why they chose a nasal spray.

I'm fecked if I know how TRH suppresses suicidal "urges" or tendencies as there is nothing I can find that suggests it can or could, either directly or indirectly, but that's OK as I'm not an endocrinologist or neurobiologist

joe1976

First of all, could you please refrain from responding in red?

Owryan wrote:

All sorts of reason why soldiers kill themselves, PTSD, war
trauma, simple inability to cope with combat ? The fact the u.s. army is funding the research suggests they do take it seriously

Much to do with what i ve suggested above i would guess,
but i'm not an expert so i dont know

soldiers are not "worthless" nor are they "meagre"

Henry Kissinger would disagree with you, I'll quote him here:

"Military Men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy"

I would happen to agree with this sentiment based on observation -- intellectually deficient individuals do join the military and from an academic perspective do perform poorly. -- it might not be everyone that joins, but it's certainly a majority -- in my own opinion.

I know at least 2 people who work overseas with private security firms in hostile environments like Libya and Iraq who couldn't do the 10 times tables at school...ever, no matter how much they were encouraged.

And no, I'm not saying that's a measurement of intelligence, but the fact they couldn't accomplish this mental task with all the support available made me wonder.

I'm not saying they couldn't do those tables if they wanted to but ..in the end, they were moved to "special needs" classes.

They were considered (unfairly in my opinion) as "idiots" by other students in school, but overseas they were "hereos" and could make more in a week than the CEO of a fortune 500 company putting their lives on the line suppressing the local belligerents.

The trade off for their "intellectual disability" was anger because of rejection by society and what followed was their willingness to kill on sight anyone trespassing into property they're told to secure...like oil refineries and pumps.

This kind of recruitment would explain why the draft didn't apply to college graduates during Vietnam...or any war for that matter.

It was always predominantly poor or "stupid" people sent to fight on the frontlines of any war.

What is this "smoking " that you keep mentioning ?

"smoking" is bullying other personnel into quitting or committing suicide.
It's quite common and is accepted as normal throughout the military.

It is a process of weeding out "weak" soldiers -- people who are "soft"

Once military personnel retire after 20 years of service, they move into management roles with large multinational companies where the practice of "smoking" is tolerated....or subtly ignored..this can cause legal problems, but not so much in the US where employees are treated like ****.

Anyone can become suicidal, there is no simple answer, i
believe that everyone has a "well of strength" that they dip into when they need
to, eventually it will begin to run dry. Soldiers are only human
afterall

I agree 100% which is why I find it strange the military think nasal spray will solve their problem.

Surely the real problem is that the army is full of psychopaths who enjoy watching humans suffer...well of course, you could say that these suicidal soldiers are defective and should actually enjoy killing people? right?

This is deeply offensive to me, i'm ex military, what
evidence do you have to back up this sweeping statement ?

The fact that you're asking me for evidence is indicative that perhaps you're not living in the real world.

So you know plenty of people who have killed people ? War
is horrible but that doesnt mean everyone who goes to war will become mentally
ill

The people I know went to work overseas in the military...absolutely, they wanted to kill people, no doubt in my mind what so ever...i even know people that joined the IRA because they wanted to kill people.

It doesn't matter where these people end up, whether it be in some mafia, paramilitary gang or the army...they wanted to kill a person, end of story.

I have drank with these type people in the past, we talked about **** you wouldn't believe. 1 fella who is deceased (suicide) 2 years now did about 5 tours in Iraq. He told myself and few other lads about how they walked through a small village and about 2 days later, it was completely wiped out by private security...because they could do it, they did it because they wanted to...nobody cared!

Those people came back to their own countries and built fine houses and bought fancy cars, paid for escorts, drugs...whatever to amuse them and they didn't give a fck.

I dont know where to begin with this , can you back
up your sweeping statement ?

It is anecdotal evidence but the fact you need to ask.....with all the available evidence online?

How troublesome is it for you to research this?

To be perfectly honest, I don't care what you think or what you believe.

The following is account of just 1 of many soldiers who were responsible for inflicting terror upon Iraq for example...man..did you really go to these places? i find it hard to believe you did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiNmerP32xk

Jonny7

mathepac wrote: »

If as mentioned above, the nasal spray contains TRH only, TRH (aka TSH) is not in itself an anti-depressant. It is simply a hormone produced by the pituitary gland, and its action is to trigger the release of hormones from the thyroid. Excess TRH/TRS can reduce the amount of serotonin or/and dopamine in circulation which could in itself have depressive effects, IIRC.

TRH molecules are too large to cross the blood-brain barrier which as the article says, is why tablets or injections don't work. The nanotechnology they describe must be some kind of vehicle to transport "bots" carrying smaller molecules of TRH precursors across the blood-brain barrier. The "bots" on arrival then manufacture TRH from the raw materials they carry. (the bit in italics is speculation on my part)

Inhaled or "snorted" chemicals tend to reach their area of activity much faster than chemicals introduced to the body by other means which no doubt is why they chose a nasal spray.

I'm fecked if I know how TRH suppresses suicidal "urges" or tendencies as there is nothing I can find that suggests it can or could, either directly or indirectly, but that's OK as I'm not an endocrinologist or neurobiologist

I don't know anything about it, but it's quite clear online

“We’ve known since the 1970s that TRH has antidepressant effects, and it works quite rapidly,”
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/08/17/081712-news-anti-suicide-spray-1-4/

weisses

Jonny7 wrote: »

It's not an answer, it's one solution to try to alleviate the problem. The suicide issue is a serious concern among the US military.

I think its an issue with all countries ... dutch soldiers serving in Lebanon former Yugoslavia Iraq and Afghanistan are suffering from depression ( suicidal ) as well .... The trouble with American soldiers imo is that the Americans started to recruit the kind of people who never should be near a weapon in the first place .. because of shortages

joe1976

Jonny7 wrote:

I don't know anything about it...

Nanobots...NANOBOTS..familiarise yourself with that word because you're gonna hear a lot more of it in the years to come.

Nanobots will revolutionise how people take medicine and also how their lives are controlled whether you like it or not.

Inevitably, this technology will be misused and I don't need to tell you that...expect it to happen but you'll probably turn the other cheek and pretend it didn't happen or didn't think it could possibly happen...etc.

"Honestly, we didn't realise this technology would be misused...do you think we'd setup an investigation into X if we thought technology would be misused...I mean, technology is never misused in my mind, my mind is perfect"

Hey, I'm pretty smart you know, I'm sure if the government were using technology to brainwash me, I'd know about it...you give me no credit, do you know how disrespectful that is? Sheesh...you're the one that needs to open your eyes! -- not me...I know the truth, you're just crazy man! rambling on about how men control the world...I can buy iPads, is that not freedom?"

I know nobody cares about this stuff but you don't have to rub it in, just eat salt infested, rancid chemical burgers from McDonalds and drink your flouridated water...plz just fck off.

Jonny7

joe1976 wrote: »

Nanobots...NANOBOTS..familiarise yourself with that word because you're gonna hear a lot more of it in the years to come.

Scare-mongering - familiarise yourself with it, you'll witness it a lot here on these forums.

joe1976

weisses wrote: »

I think its an issue with all countries ... dutch soldiers serving in Lebanon former Yugoslavia Iraq and Afghanistan are suffering from depression ( suicidal ) as well .... The trouble with American soldiers imo is that the Americans started to recruit the kind of people who never should be near a weapon in the first place .. because of shortages

I think this shows humans are not insensitive war machines but correct me if i'm wrong.

It's not clear to me why people would think it's normal to be sent off to another country to kill people for profit, for money.

If killing people for profit is "normal" our bodies would be able to deal with this situation....the fact is, our bodies were never designed for war.

It's always the same people who trumpet the values of war over reason...these people have never fought a war and therefore do not understand the consequences.

joe1976

Jonny7 wrote: »

Scare-mongering - familiarise yourself with it, you'll witness it a lot here on these forums.

I'm very familiar with ignorance my friend.

I know for example that it's impossible to help you realise and see the truth.

joe1976

Yuri Bezmenov, an Ex-KGB agent put it best.

You can't get through to them.
They are contaminated.
They are programmed to think and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern [alluding to Pavlov].
You cannot change their mind even if you expose them to authentic information.
Even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still can not change the basic perception and the logic of behavior.

As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter anymore.
A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information.
The facts tell nothing to him, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures.
...he will refuse to believe it.... That's the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.

Of course, this wouldn't be you

Jonny7

joe1976 wrote: »

I'm very familiar with ignorance my friend.

I know for example that it's impossible to help you realise and see the truth.

I'm very familiar with the truth, unfortunately I'm also becoming pretty familiar with people who constantly appear to misinterpret anything and everything as proof of
a) the coming apocalypse
b) "they" are trying to control us
c) insert belief

Welcome to the CT forum by the way.

joe1976

Jonny7 wrote: »

I'm very familiar with the truth, unfortunately I'm also becoming pretty familiar with people who constantly appear to misinterpret anything and everything as proof of
a) the coming apocalypse
b) "they" are trying to control us
c) insert belief

Welcome to the CT forum by the way.

LOL ....:D

I'm sorry.

mathepac

Jonny7 wrote: »

I don't know anything about it, but it's quite clear online

“We’ve known since the 1970s that TRH has antidepressant effects, and it works quite rapidly,”
http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/08/17/081712-news-anti-suicide-spray-1-4/

I won't argue that the statement in that one article is clear, and that the general claims what he claims, however he seems out of step with other sources and any evidence I have seen seems to contradict his single statement.

IME appearing on an internet site isn't sufficient evidence of veracity.

Jonny7

"The antidepressant potential of two naturally occurring analogues of thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH), pGLU-GLU-PRO-NH2 (EEP) and pGLU-PHE-PRO-NH2 (EFP), were examined using a rodent model of antidepressant efficacy. The Porsolt Swim Test was used to assay the antidepressant properties of these two peptides. Both analogues of TRH produced significant antidepressant effects, with EEP producing the stronger response. No effect of EEP upon triiodothyronine (T3) was observed at the dosage used. EFP, which has previously been demonstrated to crossreact with the TRH receptor, significantly increased serum T3. Since an effect upon T3 was only observed in the weaker of the two compounds, these data suggest that the behavioral effect of EEP was not secondary to stimulation of thyroid hormone. Additionally, the differential behavioral response to the two compounds suggests a degree of sequence specificity in the ability of TRH-like tripeptides to produce an antidepressant effect."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11566138

http://journals.lww.com/psychopharmacology/Abstract/2005/08000/Rapid_Antidepressant_Response_After_Nocturnal_TRH.6.aspx

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articles/PMC2071883//reload=0;jsessionid=V8PlIOyZPx3cEbBGHjyV.20

Goes into much more detail here
http://mend.endojournals.org/content/21/11/2795.full

mathepac

Jonny7 wrote: »

"The antidepressant potential of two naturally occurring analogues of thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH), ... The Porsolt Swim Test was used to assay the antidepressant properties of these two peptides. Both analogues of TRH produced significant antidepressant effects, ... Additionally, the differential behavioral response to the two compounds suggests a degree of sequence specificity in the ability of TRH-like tripeptides to produce an antidepressant effect." ...

Thanks - that confirms what I said about TRH / TSH.