Bulls not thriving

newholland

I have a pen of bulls. they have been on ad lib for around 3 weeks in the shed. they are also getting silage an plenty of water. they are not thriving. if anything they are going back. what could be causing this?

bob charles

what are their grain intakes like, cattle usually don't thrive for a few weeks when there is a change of system. What has your parasite control up to now consisted off. After ruling out all of the above then your down to minerals

Kevin1150

It may be digestion of meal and silage. How much silage are they on? Yeast would help the digestion and stop meal running through them.

epfff

newholland wrote: »

I have a pen of bulls. they have been on ad lib for around 3 weeks in the shed. they are also getting silage an plenty of water. they are not thriving. if anything they are going back. what could be causing this?

Simular story here on abt 10kgs in abt 45 days indoors getting yeast in meal their poo seems firm eneough and no real signs of meal in it.
I put it down to me that cattle are firming up just when looking closely every day i dont notice

newholland

epfff wrote: »

newholland wrote: »

I have a pen of bulls. they have been on ad lib for around 3 weeks in the shed. they are also getting silage an plenty of water. they are not thriving. if anything they are going back. what could be causing this?

Simular story here on abt 10kgs in abt 45 days indoors getting yeast in meal their poo seems firm eneough and no real signs of meal in it.
I put it down to me that cattle are firming up just when looking closely every day i dont notice

well poo is not firm. never heard of yeast being added before?

got pour on throughout the year for parasites

Kevin1150

live yeast may clear that up..worked well here with steers on ad-lib..pricey though at around 90€ a bucket

bob charles

newholland wrote: »

well poo is not firm. never heard of yeast being added before?

got pour on throughout the year for parasites

well the dung should be porridge like IYKWIM,
what exact products have being used and what have the animals being treated for. With such basic info, its hard for anyone to give a lead to you

Farmer Pudsey

What are you feeding ad lib. What is the make up of the ration. If the dung is firm then there is a lot of fibre in the diet. If cattle are thriving the dung should have the consistancy of like wet mash. Maybe there is no energy in ration.

Conflats

newholland wrote: »

I have a pen of bulls. they have been on ad lib for around 3 weeks in the shed. they are also getting silage an plenty of water. they are not thriving. if anything they are going back. what could be causing this?

The rumen needs time to adjust its bacterial population from mainly fibre digesting bacteria to ones which break down concentrates

did you build them up on this diet to help them adjust?

newholland

Conflats wrote: »

newholland wrote: »

I have a pen of bulls. they have been on ad lib for around 3 weeks in the shed. they are also getting silage an plenty of water. they are not thriving. if anything they are going back. what could be causing this?

The rumen needs time to adjust its bacterial population from mainly fibre digesting bacteria to ones which break down concentrates

did you build them up on this diet to help them adjust?

paul and vincient high maize finishing nut. they were built up over 6/8
weeks.

dose was clonmectin pour on. think spelling is right.

Grecco

Kevin1150 wrote: »

Yeast would help the digestion and stop meal running through them.

Where would you get yeast and how much to give them?

blue5000

I'd suggest start them on a bit of straw along with the silage. The silage may be too acidic or leafy, eventually cut the silage out. Don't make too many changes at once though.

Muckit

Kevin1150 wrote: »

live yeast may clear that up..worked well here with steers on ad-lib..pricey though at around 90€ a bucket

Hi Kevin

Have you a name for this yeast product? What ratio to ration to you give or is a like a lick that they take ad lib?

farmerjack

Have a look at the formulation of that nut, there is definitely calcium bicarbonate and there could be yeast in it not too sure. I have been using that nut for the past couple of years and I am very happy with it. From what you have said i think the problem is a lack of long fibre, get some good straw or hay into them. Have you noticed them chewing there cud much?

bob charles

lads yeast and the such are when everything else is 100% and you are doing a little fine tuning. Yeast is not a wonder substance that will turn cattle from not thriving to thriving. I have being a fan of yeast for the last 10yrs or so but it seems to be the buzz word in ration formulation at the moment and many of the strains are crap and expensive.

Now I would first make sure that it isn't internal parasites causing the problems as this is your first and foremost potential problem, Liver fluke, stomach fluke, roundworms and lungworms are the danger boys. Im seeing a high incidence to stomach fluke again this year but might have more to do with the areas the animals are bought.

change over for the silage to clean straw over the course of the week, Paul and Vincent have a very good reputation for their mixes, but i have never used them so no personal experience. I would get them into the crush and retreat for parasites and start from there. Consult your vet for the appropriate products to use to treat all of the above.

Richk2012

I agree with Bob on this one . I would certainly be focusing on parasite control first and foremost .
Iv never heard of Clonmectin , could it possibly be Closamectin ?????
Is there any chance they got a shower of rain shortly after being treated , this reduces the effect of pour on products . And there certainly was no shortage of rain this summer .
I personally am not a fan of pour ons whatsoever , and only use them when there is a really difficult animal to handle .
I used Closamectin Subcutaneous injection at housing as it gives a good kill on internal and external parasites aswell as immature and adult fluke . Quite happy with it have to say

Kevin1150

Grecco wrote: »

Where would you get yeast and how much to give them?

got it off local agent

Muckit wrote: »

Hi Kevin

Have you a name for this yeast product? What ratio to ration to you give or is a like a lick that they take ad lib?

yeah muckit, its manufactured by nutri-bio. approx 1kg scoop per 300kg bucket of meal.

As i think bob alluded to, it's not an all in one solution and does seem to be "in vogue" atm. On condition all health considerations are dealt with it may be worth considering. Will definitely use it again if we have the misfortune of finishing cattle out of house:rolleyes:

bob charles

Kevin1150 wrote: »

Will definitely use it again if we have the misfortune of finishing cattle out of house:rolleyes:

why, have the animals not left money or what?

Kevin1150

bob charles wrote: »

why, have the animals not left money or what?

They did, but 80/head less than if out grazing...and that was with a 10-15c price rise during finishing period:mad: