Estate Records at NLI and PRONI

RGM

Both NLI and PRONI have collections of documents related to the Hart family, who were my ancestors' landlords in Donegal. I'm not quite sure if these are two completely different collections or the same or what.

My question is does anyone have any experience looking through these types of collections? I'm wondering what exactly is involved, how organized I could expect they would be, and realistically what information I could hope to find relating to my family. The PRONI collection does specifically mention there are documents related to rentals and landlordship (is that a word?).

It would seem to be quite an undertaking.

Coolnabacky1873

RGM,

There is a guy up in Boston who send me emails every so often about the research trips he takes to Ireland and he focuses on estate records in NAI and PRONI.

This is his bio and profile.
http://www.apgen.org/directory/search_detail.html?mbr_id=1491

He might be able to help.

CeannRua

Can you link to the catalogue entries you're talking about?
Is this the PRONI one? http://www.proni.gov.uk/introduction_hart_d3077-2.pdf

RGM

CeannRua wrote: »

Can you link to the catalogue entries you're talking about?
Is this the PRONI one? http://www.proni.gov.uk/introduction_hart_d3077-2.pdf

Yes, that's the PRONI one.

The other: http://sources.nli.ie/Record/MS_UR_083951

The PRONI collection seems rather large and covers a number of things relating to the Harts. The NLI collection, on the other hand, specifically mentions Doe Castle, which is the area my family are from. But I can't find a description of what exactly is in it.

CeannRua

The one from the NLI site is actually in the National Archives. See at the bottom of the page location is given as Dublin PRO. The National Archives reference is 999/34 and a description of what the material is is included in this doc http://www.nationalarchives.ie/PDF/SmallPrivateAccessions.pdf

For the PRONI one, there might be a detailed catalogue - you would have to ask PRONI. Estate papers might be arranged by whichever member of a family granted a lease or other type of property agreement; or maybe by townland; or maybe if an estate was large it was divided into different sections; or maybe simply arranged by date. There is no standard way to arrange papers so can't answer this definitively.

Difficult to say what you will find. Depends on luck, how good the collection is and how prominent your own family is. Leases and marriage settlements can be good for naming several people from the same family. Some leases were granted for a term of 'three named lives'; these would usually be lives nominated by the lessee and were sometimes their children. There are plenty of 'names' in estate papers but the bother is that often that is just what they are as there is no context, so you are still left wondering if the person named is your relative.

CeannRua

Just in case you haven't seen, you can get a better idea what is in the proni collection by putting the reference number d3077 into the search field here and then just follow the links
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/LL_DCAL_PRONI_ECATNI/BrowseSearchPage.aspx

RGM

CeannRua wrote: »

The one from the NLI site is actually in the National Archives. See at the bottom of the page location is given as Dublin PRO. The National Archives reference is 999/34 and a description of what the material is is included in this doc http://www.nationalarchives.ie/PDF/SmallPrivateAccessions.pdf

For the PRONI one, there might be a detailed catalogue - you would have to ask PRONI. Estate papers might be arranged by whichever member of a family granted a lease or other type of property agreement; or maybe by townland; or maybe if an estate was large it was divided into different sections; or maybe simply arranged by date. There is no standard way to arrange papers so can't answer this definitively.

Difficult to say what you will find. Depends on luck, how good the collection is and how prominent your own family is. Leases and marriage settlements can be good for naming several people from the same family. Some leases were granted for a term of 'three named lives'; these would usually be lives nominated by the lessee and were sometimes their children. There are plenty of 'names' in estate papers but the bother is that often that is just what they are as there is no context, so you are still left wondering if the person named is your relative.

Great info, thanks. The collection in the archives doesn't seem very promising in terms of land records.

The PRONI collection may have something, based on this part of the description: "There are also copies and originals of leases, deeds, agreements, wills, letters, etc, 1703-1860, relating to the Co. Donegal property of George Vaughan of Buncrana (d. 1763), including the Doe Castle and Porthall estates. Vaughan's estates (apart from those which went to endow The Vaughan Charity) were divided among Vaughan's co-heirs, Gustavus Brooke, Henry Vaughan Brooke and Henry Hart, by an act of parliament of 1776, and subsequently sold and swapped among the co-heirs, the Doe Castle estate, for example, being acquired from the other co-heirs or their descendants by Colonel, later General, George Vaughan Hart in 1797. The lands comprising the Doe Castle estate were: Doe, Castledoe, South and North Maherabled, East, West and South Killoghcarrow, Ruskey, Derryfad, Umphryfad, Upper and Lower Cashell, Upper and Lower Scarvey, Drimcason, Drumnakelly and Kilhill."

I believe that "Killoghcarrow" may actually be Killoughcarron, where my family is from. Note that if you google "Killoghcarrow," you only get this collection description as a result. I can't find a townland by that name. Meanwhile compare the townlands listed with these: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Doe_Castle/

Worth a look anyway. I'll have to keep it in mind for next time I'm over to Ireland.

Going back to what you said about names, I already know the names of my ancestors who lived there and the earliest one supposedly moved there from elsewhere in Donegal, so I wouldn't be looking to extend my family tree as much as just find more information about the family.

Coolnabacky1873

The Irish Genealogical Society International (based in Minnesota, USA) paid a researcher to compile indexes for estate records from many Irish counties and areas.

If you are back to the 'start' of the parish registers for your area of interest then they might help you to go back further.

The $7-25 booklets start on this page of their online catalog(ue) and continue onto the next few pages.

I'm not involved with the organization, nor would I profit from any sales.