Advice Please: Phantom Bidder?

Independance

OH & I viewed a house last week & 2nd viewing, after 2 bids vendors agreed with our 3rd bid, I get a phone call from EA last night saying the vendors have a private bid in against us €10k more than us that didn't go through EA, EA seemed a little annoyed at this too and told them we we're genuine ready to settle.

Without giving too much info away, is this a phantom bidder or EA & Vendors playing games? Who knocks on someone's door and bids 10K over last bid? I'm annoyed, like the house but I'm not bidding against myself, should I phone them back later in week to see if they've accepted or let them come chasing me if it was phantom?

Thanks in advance

davet82

Sounds susupect to me. I'm not sure what I'd do in a situtation like this tbh. All you can do is make an educated guess. How long is the house on the market, is it in a sought after location ect because like you said, who knocks up to somebody (despite a recession and a property bust) and makes a bid of 10k more. I'd sit back and wait but its hard if you love the house, they know this only too well though.

Good luck, hope you get the house at the price you agreed.

TwoShedsJackson

Tell them your bid stands for a week then you're looking elsewhere, sounds like game-playing to me, unless you really think the house is that desirable, which the vast majority aren't.

Pkiernan

Pay what you feel the house is worth to you - no more.

If you want the house that bad, then pay the extra, if not don't put any more bids in.

Really, really simple.

the_syco

Ring the EA back, offer €10k less than your most recent bid, and tell them that the offer expires Wednesday. It's sounds like the EA is trying to make you make a "4th bid".

Independance

Independance wrote: »

OH & I viewed a house last week & 2nd viewing, after 2 bids vendors agreed with our 3rd bid, I get a phone call from EA last night saying the vendors have a private bid in against us €10k more than us that didn't go through EA, EA seemed a little annoyed at this too and told them we we're genuine ready to settle.

Without giving too much info away, is this a phantom bidder or EA & Vendors playing games? Who knocks on someone's door and bids 10K over last bid? I'm annoyed, like the house but I'm not bidding against myself, should I phone them back later in week to see if they've accepted or let them come chasing me if it was phantom?

Thanks in advance

Just a follow up,

now 4.5mths since I was outbid on this house. The "for sale" sign was outside house up till mid December and a sold sticker was put in window mid December, but still hasn't appeared on sold database, this seems to be a long time in processing & may have missed mir deadline. Also 50+ less houses for sale in my area now than Jan 2012. Are people holding back now on putting houses up for sale?

lima

Independance wrote: »

Just a follow up,

now 4.5mths since I was outbid on this house. The "for sale" sign was outside house up till mid December and a sold sticker was put in window mid December, but still hasn't appeared on sold database, this seems to be a long time in processing & may have missed mir deadline. Also 50+ less houses for sale in my area now than Jan 2012. Are people holding back now on putting houses up for sale?

Yes I would say so, especially since the Irish Independent are trying to spread rumours that prices are increasing. I expect people to hold out.

Also people are holding out who are not paying their mortgages as they know they will not be kicked out, putting a strain on stock.

I got mortgage approval months ago but I am on the fence now as the stock is being artificially kept high. People seem to be as greedy now as they were during the boom, so when they see demand up and stock down they are going to chance their arm.

Kristopherus

Blame for these artificially higher prices can also be laid squarely at NAMA's door. They have a stock of thousands of houses that they are not releasing into the market:mad:

jmayo

lima wrote: »

Yes I would say so, especially since the Irish Independent are trying to spread rumours that prices are increasing. I expect people to hold out.

Also people are holding out who are not paying their mortgages as they know they will not be kicked out, putting a strain on stock.

I got mortgage approval months ago but I am on the fence now as the stock is being artificially kept high. People seem to be as greedy now as they were during the boom, so when they see demand up and stock down they are going to chance their arm.

For most I wouldn't say it is greed since they are trying to recoup as much of their losses as they can.
Likewise with the bank.

The intersting one I find is property which has been up for sale, for years even, still with the original asking price and no decreases.
The only logical explanation is that the asking price is the amount outstanding to the bank and there is a standoff of sorts between the mortgage holder and the bank.

If the banks, and the government, finally started moving on insolvent mortgage holders, be they home owners or buy to letters, then there would be more property on the market, prices would drop and people would start buying.

As it is we are in a phoney market.
It akin to Western Europe in 1940 where everyone can guess eventually things will kick off, and all that is happening is a precursor with the odd little skirmish.

Kristopherus wrote: »

Blame for these artificially higher prices can also be laid squarely at NAMA's door. They have a stock of thousands of houses that they are not releasing into the market:mad:

It is also the banks which seems to be at the behest of government.

D3PO

lima wrote: »

Yes I would say so, especially since the Irish Independent are trying to spread rumours that prices are increasing. I expect people to hold out.

.

no such thing as a rumour about house prices now with the property price register. cant speak for everything but the 6 diff areas ive checked have shown sale price increases through Q3 & Q4

could very well be MIR related could be a dead cat bounce but the facts are the facts.

afkasurfjunkie

Independance wrote: »

Just a follow up,

now 4.5mths since I was outbid on this house. The "for sale" sign was outside house up till mid December and a sold sticker was put in window mid December, but still hasn't appeared on sold database, this seems to be a long time in processing & may have missed mir deadline. Also 50+ less houses for sale in my area now than Jan 2012. Are people holding back now on putting houses up for sale?

we went sale agreed on our house at the beginning of july. didnt get keys until last week in nov. the for sale sign remained up all that time. even no there are still two signs at the top of our road. our agent has put a sold sticker on his sign but the other agent's sign is still up with for sale still on it. our house sale only appeared online mid dec. so it can take time.

Luca Brasi

Get a friend to do a viewing and then let him put in a bid 3000 above yours just to see the response. If they say they want higher let the friend withdraw his "offer" and walk away

Independance

Independance wrote: »

Just a follow up,

now 4.5mths since I was outbid on this house. The "for sale" sign was outside house up till mid December and a sold sticker was put in window mid December, but still hasn't appeared on sold database, this seems to be a long time in processing & may have missed mir deadline. Also 50+ less houses for sale in my area now than Jan 2012. Are people holding back now on putting houses up for sale?

Just a follow up on above house:

I went to view a house (€230k) in Aug 2012 and put in an offer of €200, family wanted at least €210 so I went to €207,500 and they clear out house, they didn't want to clear house and said the lowest they would go is €205K and we clear it, so I was happy with that and got ea to phone them to say ok. 9-10hrs later I get a phone call from EA at 9:45pm the EA phones to say a private bidder offered them €215k, I didn't raise it as I was soo mad, I phoned EA a few days later and was told that bidder paid deposit the next morning after the bid and I was locked out.

5mths later I looked at the PPR website this morning and the house sold for €205, I'm so mad at the moment as I was willing to take the house for that price and along comes a private bidder at same, I think it was a neighbour or family member in the end. We are so annoyed as I have a 2yr old and my wife is now 6mths pregnant. I hate the way some people play around the property market and mess with other peoples lives!!

Any comments welcome

Tranceypoo

One of the many reasons I'm selling my house privately and not involving an estate agent, I just couldn't be doing with all that stress and you have to pay them commisson at the end of it!!

OP, if you're in Galway I've a nice house for a great price!!

seamusmacc

Independance wrote: »

Just a follow up on above house:

I went to view a house (€230k) in Aug 2012 and put in an offer of €200, family wanted at least €210 so I went to €207,500 and they clear out house, they didn't want to clear house and said the lowest they would go is €205K and we clear it, so I was happy with that and got ea to phone them to say ok. 9-10hrs later I get a phone call from EA at 9:45pm the EA phones to say a private bidder offered them €215k, I didn't raise it as I was soo mad, I phoned EA a few days later and was told that bidder paid deposit the next morning after the bid and I was locked out.

5mths later I looked at the PPR website this morning and the house sold for €205, I'm so mad at the moment as I was willing to take the house for that price and along comes a private bidder at same, I think it was a neighbour or family member in the end. We are so annoyed as I have a 2yr old and my wife is now 6mths pregnant. I hate the way some people play around the property market and mess with other peoples lives!!

Any comments welcome

not sure how accurate for the price registered in PPR, my mate's house was registered 8K less than what he paid for. anyway, let bygones be bygones, hopefully you will find some where soon.

lightoffshore

I'm awaiting a yes/no from a vendor via the estate agent at the moment. At the last second before the ES was going back to the vendor, they told me quite a few bids had come in over the last few days which had pushed the price up by 30k. I'm a cash bidder. I think they're lying to me and only trying to draw more cash out of me by putting me on the spot. Said they were going back to the vendor in the next hour and they needed to know now. I told them I was leaving the bid as it was. Funny thing is that over the previous weeks, while the bidding was going on they were coming back to me every day. All of a sudden I hear nothing for three days and it has gone up by 30 k. Sound suspect?

lightoffshore

Also, bids had been going in in increments of 2-5k so to go up by 30k was a massive jump for them not to let me know about. Also, per chance there were to bidders at that level within 2k of each other. How is it that it was okay for them to be informed of each others position and for me not to be in the loop. Suspect?

Dr Turk Turkelton

Independance wrote: »

Just a follow up on above house:

I went to view a house (€230k) in Aug 2012 and put in an offer of €200, family wanted at least €210 so I went to €207,500 and they clear out house, they didn't want to clear house and said the lowest they would go is €205K and we clear it, so I was happy with that and got ea to phone them to say ok. 9-10hrs later I get a phone call from EA at 9:45pm the EA phones to say a private bidder offered them €215k, I didn't raise it as I was soo mad, I phoned EA a few days later and was told that bidder paid deposit the next morning after the bid and I was locked out.

5mths later I looked at the PPR website this morning and the house sold for €205, I'm so mad at the moment as I was willing to take the house for that price and along comes a private bidder at same, I think it was a neighbour or family member in the end. We are so annoyed as I have a 2yr old and my wife is now 6mths pregnant. I hate the way some people play around the property market and mess with other peoples lives!!

Any comments welcome

I tried to buy a house for cash last summer.EA agreed the price was very fair and advised the couple to take the offer.
Suddenly the vendor changed EA and the house sold the next day.
On PPR website sold at 2k less than my offer.
I would say that there was some cash handed over on the side as well as the original EA said they weren't budging on their sale price.(I wanted the house and offered 92% of asking price).

the_syco

lightoffshore wrote: »

Also, bids had been going in in increments of 2-5k so to go up by 30k was a massive jump for them not to let me know about. Also, per chance there were to bidders at that level within 2k of each other. How is it that it was okay for them to be informed of each others position and for me not to be in the loop. Suspect?

I think I see what happened. EA got one other bidder, and played them off a phantom bidder to a point where the other bidder wouldn't go above the phantom bidders highest bid, so now they bring you in to try to get a "real" bidder in before they goto the seller. Very suspect indeed!

Independance

lightoffshore wrote: »

I'm awaiting a yes/no from a vendor via the estate agent at the moment. At the last second before the ES was going back to the vendor, they told me quite a few bids had come in over the last few days which had pushed the price up by 30k. I'm a cash bidder. I think they're lying to me and only trying to draw more cash out of me by putting me on the spot. Said they were going back to the vendor in the next hour and they needed to know now. I told them I was leaving the bid as it was. Funny thing is that over the previous weeks, while the bidding was going on they were coming back to me every day. All of a sudden I hear nothing for three days and it has gone up by 30 k. Sound suspect?

Yes, this is what happend to us, we were only bidders for a week/10days and at final bid & awaiting go ahead by vendors from EA, the EA phones at 9:45pm to say a bid came in 10k more and wanted us to add 5k!!

lightoffshore

Did ye get the house Indepdance?

Independance

lightoffshore wrote: »

Did ye get the house Indepdance?

No as I said before this is what happened:

Originally Posted by Independance


Just a follow up on above house:

I went to view a house (€230k) in Aug 2012 and put in an offer of €200, family wanted at least €210 so I went to €207,500 and they clear out house, they didn't want to clear house and said the lowest they would go is €205K and we clear it, so I was happy with that and got ea to phone them to say ok. 9-10hrs later I get a phone call from EA at 9:45pm the EA phones to say a private bidder offered them €215k, I didn't raise it as I was soo mad, I phoned EA a few days later and was told that bidder paid deposit the next morning after the bid and I was locked out.

5mths later I looked at the PPR website this morning and the house sold for €205, I'm so mad at the moment as I was willing to take the house for that price and along comes a private bidder at same, I think it was a neighbour or family member in the end. We are so annoyed as I have a 2yr old and my wife is now 6mths pregnant. I hate the way some people play around the property market and mess with other peoples lives!!

Any comments welcome

I was taken by surprise at 9:45pm and apparently the new bidder had paid his deposit the next morning, when clearly I was chucked around all week, this leads me to beleive it was a neighbour or family member who bought it, who jumps in at 10k over my offer at and when I looked at PPR site this week it sold for €205, which was my last offer not the 215k I was let to beleive was in and not the 220k they wanted me to bid next!! Really pissed off! lol

lightoffshore

Cowboys those estate agents.

lightoffshore

No news back on my bid yet. Have spoken to the ES and believe its all real bids now, and not a phatom bidder. I'm cash at 290, but there are two bidders at 322 and 321 respectively. One has "shown proof of finance". Its a receivership sale on behalf of a bank. Reckon I'm out of the game or have a chance? Was kinda hoping my cash bid might still be attractive.

the_syco

lightoffshore wrote: »

Have spoken to the ES and believe its all real bids now, and not a phatom bidder. I'm cash at 290, but there are two bidders at 322 and 321 respectively.

A week and a half later, who contacted who?

lightoffshore

I contacted the ES to see if there was any update. Also had an friend call up wondering about the house, and it all checks out, with the info the ES was giving me (re bids etc).

ArraMusha

There's no transparency with EA's, plenty whispering in the ear of the seller and plenty phantom bidders in the ear of the buyer.

Its a pity there isn't an ebay type bidding system in place for house sale...well I suppose there is but not many paddies buy houses on ebay...but maybe we should. Proof of finance would be required for it to work correctly on large amounts, and no EA's!

I know of an EA who told a friend of mine who was trying to sell a house back in 2009 that he could "try and push up the price"....it's in their blood.

jvlme

D3PO wrote: »

no such thing as a rumour about house prices now with the property price register. cant speak for everything but the 6 diff areas ive checked have shown sale price increases through Q3 & Q4

could very well be MIR related could be a dead cat bounce but the facts are the facts.

Are you an Estate Agent by any chance?

jvlme

ArraMusha wrote: »

There's no transparency with EA's, plenty whispering in the ear of the seller and plenty phantom bidders in the ear of the buyer.

Its a pity there isn't an ebay type bidding system in place for house sale...well I suppose there is but not many paddies buy houses on ebay...but maybe we should. Proof of finance would be required for it to work correctly on large amounts, and no EA's!

I know of an EA who told a friend of mine who was trying to sell a house back in 2009 that he could "try and push up the price"....it's in their blood.

A lack of transparency pervades many sectors, including estate agents. Vested interests are still calling the shots and the media are only too willing to court the opinion of these people and present it as impartial, factual analysis

D3PO

jvlme wrote: »

Are you an Estate Agent by any chance?

No Im not. I destest EAs infact. My post refered to FACTUAL information available in the PPR to everybody.

P. Breathnach

jvlme wrote: »

A lack of transparency pervades many sectors, including estate agents. Vested interests are still calling the shots and the media are only too willing to court the opinion of these people and present it as impartial, factual analysis

Is anybody willing to show all of his or her cards? Will a potential purchaser disclose that he or she is prepared to go as high as €350k when putting in a hopeful bid of €300k?

I sold two properties last year, using two different EAs. I would have been very upset if either had been totally transparent with prospective purchasers, and weakened my bargaining position. I was paying them to act in my interest. And my interest was, quite literally, a vested interest.

If and when purchasers pay EAs to find properties and negotiate their purchase, they can seek transparency at their end of the transaction. Until then, purchasers should simply accept that the EA works for the vendor, and will try to maximise the selling price: that's what the job is about.

jvlme

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Is anybody willing to show all of his or her cards? Will a potential purchaser disclose that he or she is prepared to go as high as €350k when putting in a hopeful bid of €300k?

I sold two properties last year, using two different EAs. I would have been very upset if either had been totally transparent with prospective purchasers, and weakened my bargaining position. I was paying them to act in my interest. And my interest was, quite literally, a vested interest.

If and when purchasers pay EAs to find properties and negotiate their purchase, they can seek transparency at their end of the transaction. Until then, purchasers should simply accept that the EA works for the vendor, and will try to maximise the selling price: that's what the job is about.

There's a huge difference between not showing all your cards and blatant lies. A purchaser should NOT have to accept out and out deceit where the EA puts forward phantom bids to bump up the selling price. Both parties (buyer and seller) want to get the best price but there's way of achieving that in a transparent manner. Furthermore, if you choose to pay an EA to sell your property that's entirely your choice, don't expect me to also pay for the privilege

P. Breathnach

jvlme wrote: »

There's a huge difference between not showing all your cards and blatant lies. A purchaser should NOT have to accept out and out deceit where the EA puts forward phantom bids to bump up the selling price. Both parties (buyer and seller) want to get the best price but there's way of achieving that in a transparent manner.

Do you believe that it's an entirely unequal contest, that purchasers are transparent? I don't. Buyers typically tell lies about their funding, saying that €x is all they can afford - yet you might find them still competing when the bidding goes to €(x + 20k). And other buyers try to renegotiate the price when final contracts are about to be signed. It's a dog-eat-dog game.

Nobody compels a purchaser to top a competing bid, be it genuine or phantom.

Furthermore, if you choose to pay an EA to sell your property that's entirely your choice, don't expect me to also pay for the privilege

That's empty rhetoric. I paid the EAs when I sold the properties. I paid them for advice, for advertising and promotion, for showing the properties, for screening out messers, for negotiating on my behalf (subject, of course, to my final decision) and for getting initial contracts signed. So far as I am concerned, it was money well spent, and how much I paid is not the buyers' concern.

jmayo

jvlme wrote: »

There's a huge difference between not showing all your cards and blatant lies. A purchaser should NOT have to accept out and out deceit where the EA puts forward phantom bids to bump up the selling price. Both parties (buyer and seller) want to get the best price but there's way of achieving that in a transparent manner. Furthermore, if you choose to pay an EA to sell your property that's entirely your choice, don't expect me to also pay for the privilege

Talking of phantom bidders I know of one auction where there were, lets say not legitimate bidders, who it turned out were distant (as in lived far away) relatives of the seller.
Some of the people present at the auction twigged it and word spread.
The auctioneer had to pull the plug and the property is still unsold over a year later.

Now I don't know if the auctioneer was aware of the plants or not, but any local interested are steering clear as there is no trust now ?

jvlme

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Do you believe that it's an entirely unequal contest, that purchasers are transparent? I don't. Buyers typically tell lies about their funding, saying that €x is all they can afford - yet you might find them still competing when the bidding goes to €(x + 20k). And other buyers try to renegotiate the price when final contracts are about to be signed. It's a dog-eat-dog game.

Nobody compels a purchaser to top a competing bid, be it genuine or phantom.

That's empty rhetoric. I paid the EAs when I sold the properties. I paid them for advice, for advertising and promotion, for showing the properties, for screening out messers, for negotiating on my behalf (subject, of course, to my final decision) and for getting initial contracts signed. So far as I am concerned, it was money well spent, and how much I paid is not the buyers' concern.

You appear to have gotten very angry, very quickly.

1. I never said it was 'an entirely unequal contest'. All I called for was transparency in the process

2. I'm not here to defend the rogue actions of purchasers.

3. I'm not interested in what you pay an EA for services rendered

4. Enjoy your 'dog-eat-dog' world

Victor

jvlme wrote: »

chump

Behave.

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