The "How Would I Fix" Saorview Thread

Mr_Ekan

So the general consensus here and elsewhere is that Saorview is a bit of a damp squib.

RTÉ, the obvious most likely content provider, have had their hands tied by the previous government and if they hadn't TV3 would kick up a stink if RTÉ were in a position to gain additional market share & revenue through the roll-out of new channels which would carry advertising. (Plenty or pros & cons here)

So, anyone up for batting around a few ideas as to how you'd make Saorview a (slightly) more attractive proposition, without breaking the bank??

My couple of ideas would be:

RTÉ News Now...as RTÉ are a partner in the EBU, they're can't be a massive issue with running Euronews content on the station? Need a revenue stream to partially fund it?, sell advertising during the Euronews opt-outs, up to set limit, to cover any costs. Not that it would be a massive ratings winner, and as for TV3, well the people who tend to like "hard" news aren't exactly their demographic anyway.

RTÉ Plus...anyone who's seen the ratings for RTÉ One +1 can tell it's a failure. So bring back the idea of RTÉ Plus, but with the proviso that any revenue beyond a certain level goes directly into the Sound & Vision fund. If the shows are there to be broadcast & if they can make money which is used to fund domestic programming what could be the main argument against it?
That and timesplit the channel with RTÉ Jr.

Which frees up one of the current slots and might make it more attractive for another broadcaster to place a station on the platform at a guaranteed cost.

...to the floor

MACHEAD

Couldn't agree more. An RTÉ Plus or RTÉ 3 even would be so much better use of a channel than RTÉ +1. There's a raft of archive material that could be aired on this as well as a potential platform for new talent trying to make to to the 'mainstream'.

RTÉ News Now definitely needs a revamp. (Not that I have 'seen' it on TV yet, only via web). But including inserts from Euronews would certainly fill out the air-time a bit more untill such time as RTÉ could expand their own domestic/international coverage.

On one hand one can see the logic of restricting the expansion of RTÉ as a state enterprise, in order to allow others from the private sector to gain a share of the available market. But what happens while we're waiting around for the private investors to consider it favourable to enter the market? Well, pretty much nothing, and in the meantime the viewer/license payer makes do with a reduced service.

If RTÉ have the expertise, the resources, and can find the funding from within their existing budget, why not let them expand and make the most efficient use of the new technology currently being rolled out.

If the private sector love 'competition' so much, why jump up and down on the 'sideline' flapping their arms about, 'tog out', and come on the field and join the game!

Carawaystick

Maybe get the epg to actually match whats on- rte jr is way off in the evenings, rte know about this but won't fix it.

Maybe sort out fair city. the whole plus1 not showing everything is a joke

Improve the sound on radio. It's like a wet blanket was draped over the sound.

Sam Russell

RTE currently have no interest in Saorview as the FF government hobbled them.

Why would they be interested in a platform that offers nothing for them? They are strapped for cash and have no support from DCENR or BAI. Sky are allowed to do as they wish and no-one says boo to them. Currently advising people 'to get ready for 'the digital change over' when it has no effect on them, while the Saorview ads are not permitted to mention Freesat or FTA satellite as a way to get BBC etc.

The second mux should be fired up with RTE getting the first one, and the rest using the second one in any way they can agree on. Cost are shared on each mux - that is RTE pays for mux one and the rest share the other one. The cost on that mux is about what TV3 and TG4 were each paying for analogue.

RTE could then go to HD on RTE1, and should be allowed to operate RTE Plus (RTE 3) instead of that waste of electricity - RTE 1+1.

TV3 and TG4 could then also go HD, and add OTV and the irish film board channel.

Some hope.

SPDUB

Carawaystick wrote: »

Maybe get the epg to actually match whats on- rte jr is way off in the evenings, rte know about this but won't fix it.

Maybe sort out fair city. the whole plus1 not showing everything is a joke

Improve the sound on radio. It's like a wet blanket was draped over the sound.

They fixed the Fair city situation a few months ago .The only holdout now appears to be "Reeling in the Years "

Incidentally where can you see the ratings for RTE1+1 .

formerly scottish paddy

I think you may find that things will change with RTÉ News Now later in the year when the new head of news, Kevin Bakhurst takes over, after all he was head of the BBC news channel! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18780858
The idea of an RTÉ 3/Plus or whatever is a good idea as this channel could also be used as the RTÉ International channel for broadcast abroad.

The Idyll Race

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

I think you may find that things will change with RTÉ News Now later in the year when the new head of news, Kevin Bakhurst takes over, after all he was head of the BBC news channel! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18780858
The idea of an RTÉ 3/Plus or whatever is a good idea as this channel could also be used as the RTÉ International channel for broadcast abroad.

Nice idea but RTÉ haven't the slightest interest in doing any kind of international channel. Official Ireland hates emigrants (except for their money).

TV3 would cry like the babbiest of babbies if RTÉ even had the thought crime of doing anything creative with the digital channels. Less viewers for Hairdressers in Heat or whatever, presumably, even if RTÉ carried the BBC Proms.

Sam Russell

RTE News Now need to carry some form of advertising to fund itself. Without that, there would be no interest in it for RTE.

It is obvious to me that you cannot have a news channel without editors and journalists, and you cannot have that without an income which means adverts in this case. Otherwise all that cn be afforded is free repeats.

PacMan

I can not understand why RTE News Now does not show some archive material from the RTE news archives such as documentaries and perhaps elections from times past, such as on BBC Pariliment.
As mentioned earlier, RTE does show Euronews overnights, and shows Morning Ireland from radio One, but why not a relay of BBC World News ?
Just an idea, as I love watching news and docs...

Mr_Ekan

I'd imagine you could fund additional content on RTÉ News Now by broadcasting ads during the Euronews, or other third party content, i.e. that any content like that (and from other international news channels NHK, DW, etc) is funded by ads during these shows.

I'm sure RTÉ Publishing make money from providing the news content on the screens in the rail stations & on screens in Centra...so get a slice of that put into funding additional content. I don't see what TV3 could have to complain about there.

And in terms of comparable ratings, below are a few top shows, with their live viewing measured in 000's against Adults 15+

Show Date RTÉ One RTÉ One +1
Inside Court No 5 12-Jul 400 10
Secret Millionaire 07-Aug 204 4
Saturday Night with Miriam 18-Aug 360 4
Creedon's Cities 06-Aug 211 10

Sam Russell

Mr_Ekan wrote: »

I'd imagine you could fund additional content on RTÉ News Now by broadcasting ads during the Euronews, or other third party content, i.e. that any content like that (and from other international news channels NHK, DW, etc) is funded by ads during these shows.

I'm sure RTÉ Publishing make money from providing the news content on the screens in the rail stations & on screens in Centra...so get a slice of that put into funding additional content. I don't see what TV3 could have to complain about there.

And in terms of comparable ratings, below are a few top shows, with their live viewing measured in 000's against Adults 15+

Show Date RTÉ One RTÉ One +1
Inside Court No 5 12-Jul 400 10
Secret Millionaire 07-Aug 204 4
Saturday Night with Miriam 18-Aug 360 4
Creedon's Cities 06-Aug 211 10

Advertising is not allowed on RTE News Now or RTE jr.

That has removed any incentive for RTE to provide anything of any interest on these channels. This needs to be reversed.

wnolan1992

It's a bit of shame that RTE didn't utilise Saorview in their TV50 campaign. Instead of RTE1+1, they could have had a RTE Classic or something, showing lots of stuff from the archives.

Not only would this have won ratings, but it would have given people (especially older people), added incentive to get Saorview ASAP.

Clareman

IMVHO RTÉ missed a massive opportunity by not have a channel they could have had as either regional interest or special events channel, whether that's RTÉ Plus or something else I don't know. I'd have a channel that could be showing different programs from different transponders, for example, for the Clare transponder show the Clare county final or local events or something similar, they could also put a constant stream of special events that are on, e.g. the Olympics when they were on. The channel could also be shared with the other providers to allow them put stuff on, for example have it as TV3 extra and show another champions league match or Irish language lessons and the like.

Mr_Ekan

Sam Russell wrote: »

Advertising is not allowed on RTE News Now or RTE jr.

That has removed any incentive for RTE to provide anything of any interest on these channels. This needs to be reversed.

Sure, I agree on that...but given the roundabout way things are done in this country, perhaps a solution would be to run the adverts during the Euronews content...i.e. as if it were running as a channel opt-out. Not ideal, or likely, but perhaps the start of a way around the current half-assed mess.

Another awkward way could be for this properties that make money from RTÉ's news gathering service (RTÉ.ie/App, News Now in train & bus stations) are required to give a certain proportion of their revenue to fund an ad-free RTÉ News Now on Saorview.

TV3 & the former goverment are really shooting themselves in the foot with this current set-up & resisitance to RTÉ running more programming on Saorview.

Sam Russell

Mr_Ekan wrote: »

Sure, I agree on that...but given the roundabout way things are done in this country, perhaps a solution would be to run the adverts during the Euronews content...i.e. as if it were running as a channel opt-out. Not ideal, or likely, but perhaps the start of a way around the current half-assed mess.

Another awkward way could be for this properties that make money from RTÉ's news gathering service (RTÉ.ie/App, News Now in train & bus stations) are required to give a certain proportion of their revenue to fund an ad-free RTÉ News Now on Saorview.

TV3 & the former goverment are really shooting themselves in the foot with this current set-up & resisitance to RTÉ running more programming on Saorview.

The way out of this mess is for the current minister, Rabbitte, to rescind or vary the ministerial order that put this in place. There is a very considerable resistance to do anything about it which suggests to me that a vested interest is in play.

The Idyll Race

Mr_Ekan wrote: »

Sure, I agree on that...but given the roundabout way things are done in this country, perhaps a solution would be to run the adverts during the Euronews content...i.e. as if it were running as a channel opt-out. Not ideal, or likely, but perhaps the start of a way around the current half-assed mess.

Another awkward way could be for this properties that make money from RTÉ's news gathering service (RTÉ.ie/App, News Now in train & bus stations) are required to give a certain proportion of their revenue to fund an ad-free RTÉ News Now on Saorview.

TV3 & the former goverment are really shooting themselves in the foot with this current set-up & resisitance to RTÉ running more programming on Saorview.

I think you are confusing TV3 with an organisation that gives a damn about anything other than ratings for "Hairdressers in Heat"

Koloman

The Idyll Race wrote: »

I think you are confusing TV3 with an organisation that gives a damn about anything other than ratings for "Hairdressers in Heat"

Why would TV3 not be interested in ratings? They don't have taxpayers money to fall back on.

Sam Russell

Koloman wrote: »

Why would TV3 not be interested in ratings? They don't have taxpayers money to fall back on.

Advertising revenue depends on ratings. Ratings do not matter to a state funded entity, but here, even that requires advertising to fund it, and so ratings matter there as well.

The Idyll Race

Sam Russell wrote: »

Advertising revenue depends on ratings. Ratings do not matter to a state funded entity, but here, even that requires advertising to fund it, and so ratings matter there as well.

I am willing to wager that if RTE ever proposed a BBC Four type channel, which wouldn't impact in the slightest on TV3's audience, TV3 would vociferously object to it.

Sam Russell

The Idyll Race wrote: »

I am willing to wager that if RTE ever proposed a BBC Four type channel, which wouldn't impact in the slightest on TV3's audience, TV3 would vociferously object to it.

..... which suggests that the vested interest that is TV3 holds a greater sway with the BAI and the DCNER than does RTE. That in itself is a disgrace.

The fact that the Saorview publicity cannot mention Freesat says a lot. Freesat is the greatest threat to Sky as the dish for Freesat is already in place for any Sky subscriber and all that is needed is to swap the decoder box. Within a few months, even at the basic subsciption, the subsciptions would pay for the most basic box, and a full year would pay for the most expensive box.

There must be huge threats out there in TV land.

dulpit

Improvement #1:
More HD. When switching to RTÉ2 to something else, they all look poor. TV3 especially. From snooping around, I see that TV3 and TG4 are looking at launching HD versions, why not RTÉ1?

Improvement #2:
Better content. There's currently nothing there on Saorview that wasn't already on analogue. RTÉ News Now is a joke and I'm not the target demographic for RTÉ Kids.

Improvement #3:
New channels. Why are we stuck with just the existing set of channels? Nothing new from an independent source/etc?

Andy454

They should approach it the way sky did with Astra in the early days - sex and christian nut channels sell.....


MUX 1
101 The Adult Channel
102 The Adult Channel 2
103 The Adult Channel +1
104 Playboy TV
105 EWTN
106 The God Channel
107 BabeStation

MUX 2
106 RTE 2
107 RTE 1
108 RTE 3
109 The Dead Language Channel
110 BBC 1
111 BBC 2
112 BBC 3
113 BBC 4

MUX 3

ITV 1,2,3,4
TV3

All recievers should allow the manual inputting of video and audio pid's - EWTN Video PID With Adult Channel Audio PID or vice versa...

Hotblack Desiato

dulpit wrote: »

New channels. Why are we stuck with just the existing set of channels? Nothing new from an independent source/etc?

No funding. Licence fee income has been cut (RTE now have to eat the cost of all the OAP 'free' TV licences, and TG4 get a slice) and there is shag-all commercial income to go around for any new RTE or independent content.

FREETV

ninja900 wrote: »

No funding. Licence fee income has been cut (RTE now have to eat the cost of all the OAP 'free' TV licences, and TG4 get a slice) and there is shag-all commercial income to go around for any new RTE or independent content.

In my opinion, the only possible outcomes that I could see which could improve Saorview would be either a collaboration between RTE/TV3/TG4 in the interest of the platform or worst case scenario with SKY and maybe they could put Pick TV, SKY 1, SKY2 free on Saorview and SKY earn advertisement revenue and promote SKY at the same time! :eek: Even a Top UP TV Type service seems unlikely in the near future at this stage. We may have a small population when compared to the UK and an unfair divided society and economy based on a debt based economy con but surely we can do better than the meagre service that we have at the moment which just replaces the analogue switch over.

mike65

The pot is empty so new content is a non starter, however the RTE vault can be raided (possibly subject to certain rights clearances), okay I have no idea how much RTE has archived or what's still to be "re-discovered" but its surely worth taking seriously as a project.

Hotblack Desiato

It'll still need cash. Rights still exist in archive material, as you mentioned. Someone has to wade through it all (probably badly catalogued and stored) and pick out the best bits. No new channel can come on air now as the first mux is full, opening the second mux doubles the DTT transmission costs instantly and it seems the BAI have an idiodic pricing model which tries to make the first channel to jump onto the second mux pay the transmission costs for the whole mux. It doesn't make sense unless the second mux can be filled or something close to it.

RTE wiped lots of VT in the 60s/70s when it was expensive (even some Wanderly Wagon got wiped) and telerecordings are unwatchable for a modern audience, that's even if they have many. The BBC did a lot of telerecordings, but they had an export market. Did we really go digital so we could watch grey 1963 kinescopes of semi-famous talking heads long dead?

Look at the 1960s Reeling in the Years, even well into the 60s a lot of it is Gael-Linn films of ceilis... Not a whole lot of RTE archive there except for news footage, which would have been on film well into the 80s.