Ran my LSR's too hard. Anything I can salvage from them?

mgadget

Hi,

I picked up a HRM this weekend and confirmed that I have in fact been running the LSR's well above the aerobic zone and into marathon pace. Been training for an Ultra and incorporating walk breaks so didn't really feel the impact until last week when I tried to break 4 hours for a final 4.5hr LSR (yes I am that slow).
Everything online says I've been running junk miles.

Have I improved anything with this training?

I have found week on week that I've been getting a bit faster, going greater distances with the same perceived effort.

ecoli

Regarding using the HRM how did you measure your max HR and your zones to determine you were going too fast?

The good news though is all that training is not gone to waste. When they mention junk miles this does not mean they are useless because every bit of running will be of some benefit this is more a reference of getting the most bang for your buck

Also would you do any other "Faster" sessions during the week? Sometimes you can use these as a session if the rest is just easy running

mgadget

Hi,
I used the HR zones given in the book Advanced Marathoning. I have not yet gone out and ran flat out to generate a MaxHR, I used the calculations within the book for a max HR of 182. I setup the HR zones based on Heart Rate Reserve, which they said was more accurate.

I get a couple of sessions of around an hour during the week. I feel like I'm going faster during these but I'm not being anchored with a rucksack full of water bottles like on the LSR's. I do two LSR's back-to-back each week, I was more focused on building endurance.

I determined that I am going too fast by the descriptions of perceived exertions for each HR zone. I would never have run aerobic before because it felt too easy and really really slow, although in reality it was maybe 1:00 mile slower than I would normally run. I would normally run comfortably breathless, if that makes sense.

TFBubendorfer

Until you have a reasonably accurate reading of your max HR these a calculations are worthless. Try and do a max HR test first.

Alternatively, don't worry about the HR. If you're running your LSR at a comfortable pace, they are not too fast, no matter what the HRM says.

rom

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Until you have a reasonably accurate reading of your max HR these a calculations are worthless. Try and do a max HR test first.

Alternatively, don't worry about the HR. If you're running your LSR at a comfortable pace, they are not too fast, no matter what the HRM says.

My max is 193 and I am 29. A friend is 8 years older and his is 206. These formula you see online are a complete guess.

RayCun

What is your race pace at shorter distances? If you don't know your max HR, you can't use HR for training effort. But you can base your marathon pace (and LSR pace etc) off the pace you can sustain for a shorter distance.

menoscemo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

If you're running your LSR at a comfortable pace, they are not too fast, no matter what the HRM says.

The description 'comfortably breathless' would suggest they are being run too fast though.

That said if OP is getting two LSR's back to back the pace can't be that taxing.

Conclusion: I am confused...

mgadget

Thanks for all the replies,

I guess I need get a real max HR before I decide I'm going too hard.

My best run so far this year was a 01:33 1/2 marathon, was aiming for 01:31.

The aerobic easy slow run I did this week was at 152 HRavg. 08:20 min/mile avg. pace

The back-to-back LSR's I find I'm running at around 08:00 min/mile with a 1 minute walk break every 10 minutes. There does not appear to be much in it pace wise, but the LSR's with the rucksack do feel a bit of a slog. Maybe I've not recovered enough on the second LSR and so it feels harder.

TFBubendorfer

mgadget wrote: »

My best run so far this year was a 01:33 1/2 marathon, was aiming for 01:31.

The aerobic easy slow run I did this week was at 152 HRavg. 08:20 min/mile avg. pace

If you are able to run a 1:33 half marathon, 8:00 - 8:20 pace would be perfectly fine for a marathon-style LSR.

If you're doing back-to-back long runs for an ultra, then that looks a bit too fast to me, though in all honesty I'd ignore the pace or HR in those runs and purely go by feel. You should always feel comfortable with the pace - it should always be sustainable for hours and hours.

As an aside, I trained like that exactly once and while I had a decent enough race I concluded that those long back-to-back runs took too much out of me and my training suffered overall. I switched to a more marathon-style training but with longer runs (not back-to-back) and had better results that way. It's an individual thing though, things may well be different for you.

mgadget

Thanks for the input TFBubendorfer. I'd say I've always just gone out and ran at a pace which felt right but which turned out to be a bit too much. I've found the back to back long runs useful in just knowing I can go out there and just do it - probably not the most efficient exercise but it's my first ultra and they have given me some confidence in my ability.

Savage Tyrant

Sorry for the noobie question, but what's an LSR?

mgadget

Hi, sorry for the abbreviations. LSR = Long Slow Run

Savage Tyrant

mgadget wrote: »

Hi, sorry for the abbreviations. LSR = Long Slow Run

No need to be sorry, I'd seen the term used a few times and thought I'd ask. I'm new to running and the running forums.
Maybe someday I'll be able to do an LSR myself.

Clearlier

mgadget wrote: »

Hi, sorry for the abbreviations. LSR = Long Slow Run

I think of them as long steady runs myself.

I think that it depends on where you are with your running though. Once you can run a 20 miler without the distance being the challenge the fitness boost that you get from simply covering 20 miles is reduced so you need to consider effort levels a bit more.

cwgatling

Sounds like you're training well to me. Going faster over longer distances: that's improvement. Your paces are bang on for long runs based on your HM PB. Keep it up. BTW 'junk mileage' is a load of b0llox. Mileage is mileage and it all counts.

TFBubendorfer

cwgatling wrote: »

BTW 'junk mileage' is a load of b0llox. Mileage is mileage and it all counts.

I totally agree with this. The idea that a run would be completely wasted because the pace was wrong is just bizarre. The pace might not have been ideal but you would still have gotten loads of fitness gains from all those long runs.

Dr.Bill

Gerrup da yard.. Junk miles better dan no miles.