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Retuned TV to get Digital Channels - all sound, no picture - Help !

  • 12-08-2012 5:25pm
    #1
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭


    I retuned one of my Sony Bravia TVs to pull in the Digital Channels as just realised they have an MPEG2 tuners built in.

    TV 1 was retuned with no problems - now have all the digital services

    TV 2 was retuned and the EPG guide is up, all the digital channels are there but I have NO picture, only sound.

    Any help with what be the problem?

    Thanks in advance


Comments

  • #2
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    The tuner in the TV is simply useless for Saorview.

    Saorview, in extremely simple terms, is MPEG4 video, not MPEG2. Hence audio, no picture.

    Get a Saorview STB for that TV.


  • #3
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Irish broadcast digital TV (DVB-T) a.k.a. SaorView uses MPEG4, not MPEG2.

    Some TVs sold before the SaorView standard was released were to UK standard-definition FreeView specs and supported only MPEG2.

    Your TV can see the EPG and the audio, but it cannot decode the video as not able to understand the MPEG4 video stream.

    Unfortunately, as stated above, you'll need a set-top box.


  • #4
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Why then did the other one work no problem which also has an MPEG2 tuner ??


  • #5
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    The one that worked obviously decodes MPEG4 video: these are backwards compatible with MPEG2.


  • #6
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Backwards Compatible ??

    Both tvs have MPEG2 tuners, yet one works and one not?


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  • #7
    Extinction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Extinction


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Backwards Compatible ??

    Both tvs have MPEG2 tuners, yet one works and one not?

    Are the model numbers on both tv's the same? The tv that is working is obviously both mpeg4 & mpeg2.


  • #8
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Extinction wrote: »
    Are the model numbers on both tv's the same? The tv that is working is obviously both mpeg4 & mpeg2.

    Actually it is one MPEG4 H264 chip that dictates what the tuner will decode.

    Backwards compatible means that MPEG4 chips decode MPEG4 video and MPEG2 as it is a higher and later profile. An MPEG2 chip wont decode MPEG4 though.
    vicwatson wrote: »
    I retuned one of my Sony Bravia TVs to pull in the Digital Channels as just realised they have an MPEG2 tuners built in.

    TV 1 was retuned with no problems - now have all the digital services

    TV 2 was retuned and the EPG guide is up, all the digital channels are there but I have NO picture, only sound.

    Any help with what be the problem?

    Thanks in advance
    When you say "retune" do you mean that the stations worked previously off the digital tuner ? I am guessing you have a Panasonic ? G10/V10//15 or LZD81/PZ81 ?


  • #9
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Extinction wrote: »
    Are the model numbers on both tv's the same? The tv that is working is obviously both mpeg4 & mpeg2.

    No,

    Here they are -

    http://www.sony.ie/product/tv-80-32-lcd/kdl-32s3000/tab/technicalspecs

    Digital Terrestrial Tuner (MPEG-2)
    YES


    and



    http://www.sony.ie/product/tv-117-46-lcd/kdl-46w4000#/TechnicalSpecs

    Digital Terrestrial Tuner (MPEG-2)
    YES


  • #10
    Extinction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Extinction


    vicwatson wrote: »
    No,

    Here they are -

    http://www.sony.ie/product/tv-80-32-lcd/kdl-32s3000/tab/technicalspecs

    Digital Terrestrial Tuner (MPEG-2)
    YES


    and



    http://www.sony.ie/product/tv-117-46-lcd/kdl-46w4000#/TechnicalSpecs

    Digital Terrestrial Tuner (MPEG-2)
    YES

    KDL-46W4000 has mpeg4 tuner and will have picture and audio but the KDL-32S3000 has audio only because it's mpeg2 only


  • #11
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    The Sony IE site is wrong, but thats because its a transposition of the .co.uk site.

    The KDL-46W4000 is MPEG4. I posted a list a few years back of what did and didnt have the requisite hardware at that time. The W4000 is one one of them that willl work fine.

    AFAIK the S3000 is MPEG2 only and hence wont work for Saorview. 1 out of 2, not too bad.

    Are you in Dublin ? Tune to Ch 30 in DVB-T menu on the W4000.


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  • #12
    Extinction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 745 ✭✭✭Extinction


    STB wrote: »
    The Sony IE site is wrong, but thats because its a transposition of the .co.uk site.

    The KDL-46W4000 is MPEG4. I posted a list a few years back of what did and didnt have the requisite hardware at that time. The W4000 is one one of them that willl work fine.

    Are you in Dublin ?

    Its the KDL-32S3000 that won't have a picture though


  • #13
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Extinction wrote: »
    Its the KDL-32S3000 that won't have a picture though

    I agree. Its MPEG2 only. 2008 model or before probably.


  • #14
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Here they are -

    http://www.sony.ie/product/tv-80-32-lcd/kdl-32s3000/tab/technicalspecs

    Digital Terrestrial Tuner (MPEG-2)
    YES


    and



    http://www.sony.ie/product/tv-117-46-lcd/kdl-46w4000#/TechnicalSpecs

    Digital Terrestrial Tuner (MPEG-2)
    YES

    As STB posts above the information on the Sony website isn't 100% accurate as the Sony Ireland site just copies the specs over from the UK site and as the UK doesn't use the DVB-T/MPEG-4 standard, no requirement to include it in the website specs

    This from the respective manuals -

    KDL-32S3000
    Specifications

    ...

    Colour/Video System
    Analogue: PAL, SECAM, NTSC 3.58, 4.43 (only video in)
    Digital: MPEG-2 MP@ML

    http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3198502131.pdf


    KDL-46W4000
    Specifications

    ...

    Colour/Video System
    Analogue: PAL, SECAM, NTSC 3.58, 4.43 (only video in)
    Digital: MPEG-2 MP@ML/HL, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC HP@L4.0, MP@L3.0

    http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/3298243131.pdf


  • #15
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    So the fact the website is wrong has thrown me, many thanks for all the replies.


  • #16
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    STB wrote: »
    I agree. Its MPEG2 only. 2008 model or before probably.

    Date of Manufacture - Oct 2007 !!! Bingo !

    May go buy a Saorview box for this so.....

    At least I have all the radio channels and the EPG :)


  • #17
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    vicwatson wrote: »
    At least I have all the radio channels and the EPG :)

    For now. :) Does RTE1+1 work BTW???


  • #18
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    For now. :) Does RTE1+1 work BTW???

    Why would it? It's also transmitted in MPEG4, the same as all the other channels on Saorview.


  • #19
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    From a manufacturing perspective, it's often cheaper to just include a standard chipset for the entire European market rather than coming up with umpteen different versions of what is essentially the exact same television (other than the plug in the case of the UK, Ireland and perhaps Italy, Switzerland and Denmark).

    It's not that they envisage people moving their TVs from country to country, or that they want to facilitate cross-border reception. It's just that they're cutting costs by standardising everything in their manufacturing processes.

    In fact, we bought a Sony TV which came with a UK/IRL and CEE 7/7 (European harmonised) power cable included, so they hadn't really even packed it specifically for the Irish / British market.

    Even in the later analogue days, a lot of software-driven TVs happily worked with the various variations of PAL and quite a lot had no issue decoding SECAM either.

    TVs are all menu-driven and any national variations are usually taken care of in software.

    There are a few slightly different DVB-T implementations in Europe. Ireland's is the same as the Nordic countries (we are a member of NORDIG, the body that draws up those standards) and there are other markets using similar implementations of MPEG4 DVB-T too so, it's likely that you may encounter the odd UK television that can handle Saorview, even though the spec doesn't specifically say it does.

    Where costs are involved, they might be things like licensing software for specific branded EPG/interactive TV implementations.

    I would suspect that as the years roll on, you'll find that most devices will cope fine with Saorview -- although the interactive TV bits may be a bit more country-specific.

    The only issue we now have is that the UK's standard for HDTV has diverged somewhat and is using DVB-T2 & MPEG4 rather than DVB-T & MPEG4 as we do.

    It seems we've ended up with the digital equivalent of the umpteen versions of PAL that existed in Europe in the past instead of a harmonised standard.


  • #20
    Skull Murphy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭Skull Murphy


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    For now. :) Does RTE1+1 work BTW???

    Engaging in this kind of 'zaniness' must be your attempt at 'sociability', or what? :confused:


  • #21
    maxg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    Skull Murphy wrote: »
    Engaging in this kind of 'zaniness' must be your attempt at 'sociability', or what? :confused:

    The RTE1+1 sign is being broadcast in mpeg2 during the time RTE1+1 is not on air. That can lead to misunderstandings.


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  • #22
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,852 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    maxg wrote: »
    The RTE1+1 sign is being broadcast in mpeg2 during the time RTE1+1 is not on air. That can lead to misunderstandings.

    The RTÉ1+1 and RTÉjr off-air captions are MHEG-5 generated not MPEG-2, only displayed if the TV is MHEG-5 compatible. My 2008 non-Saorview, non-MHEG-5 Sony TV doesn't display them but a 2010 Sony does.

    Regarding Sponge Bob's post above maybe he was thinking of the channel's Service Type (0x01, 0x16/0x19), IIRC when the Saorview service type was changed someone with a disabled Panasonic posted they were still able to receive RTÉ1+1 (service type 0x01). Maybe someone may be able to read the data stream for the channel to confirm the service type?


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