Hill Starts: Stalling or rolling back?

LDC ADI 34490

The hill start is one of the most intimidating features for those learning to drive and indeed even for more experienced drivers. When hill starts go wrong you’ll more than likely experience one of the following:

• The car stalling
• The car rolling back

Firstly let’s have a look at why a car stalls on a hill start.

1. Your car may stall on a hill start if you don’t have enough gas (accelerator). You must set the gas to at least between 2000 - 3000 revs (in a diesel car its less revs) in order to give the car the power to get up the hill.
2. Your car may also stall on a hill start if the clutch comes up to fast (i.e. past the bite point) therefore not allowing the clutch plate and the fly wheel to engage smoothly.

Now let’s look at why cars roll back on hill starts.

1. Your car will roll backwards if you do not apply your handbrake when stopped on a hill.
2. When looking to move off again on a hill start your car will roll backward if you release the handbrake before you’ve found the bite point. This is one of the biggest misunderstandings with the hill start. Most people assume it’s the gas pedal that moves the car up the hill when in fact it’s a combination of the clutch and the gas pedal. Your car will struggle to move up the hill unless you’ve both found the bite point and set the gas to at least between 2000 - 3000 revs.

Here is the correct procedure for hill starts.

1. Secure your car on the hill with your handbrake
2. Clutch to the floor and select 1st gear
3. Set the gas to between approx 2000 - 3000 revs (less in a diesel car) and hold the gas pedal steady
4. Slowly bring the clutch up to the bite point and hold at the bite point (NB don’t come up even a fraction higher on the bite point while your handbrake is on). You'll know your at the bite point when you hear the revs drop
5. Release your handbrake while keeping your clutch at the bite and keeping your revs set to approx 2000 - 3000 with your gas pedal.
6. Keep your clutch coming up very slowly (about the width of a euro coin at a time) while pressing your gas pedal down slightly further to give the car more revs and therefore power and your car will start to move up the hill.

If you follow this routine you will rarely have any issues with your hill start again



Thanks,
Padraic

Alanstrainor

Rather than talking about revs, the best way to know when you've found the biting point and it's time to release the handbrake is when you see the front of the car slightly rise, and the back of the car slightly dip. This means that the car clutch is sufficiently engaged to allow forward momentum even on the hill. Release the handbrake and smoothly accelerate away from the side of the road.

Of course, proper observation is required before moving away. But I have to disagree when telling people to go to 2000/3000 revs.

What if the hill is only slight? <10 degrees? what if it's severe? >30 degrees? I wouldn't talk about revs at all tbh.

LDC ADI 34490

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Rather than talking about revs, the best way to know when you've found the biting point and it's time to release the handbrake is when you see the front of the car slightly rise, and the back of the car slightly dip. This means that the car clutch is sufficiently engaged to allow forward momentum even on the hill. Release the handbrake and smoothly accelerate away from the side of the road.

Of course, proper observation is required before moving away. But I have to disagree when telling people to go to 2000/3000 revs.

Watching the for the front of the car to raise is another option but I'll always suggest to my pupils to set the gas and listen to the bite point, it's when you hear the engine revs drop.

Both methods work so its good advice to anyone reading

Alanstrainor

LDC ADI 34490 wrote: »

Watching the for the front of the car to raise is another option but I'll always suggest to my pupils to set the gas and listen to the bite point, it's when you hear the engine revs drop.

Both methods work so its good advice to anyone reading

Well, the reason I suggest monitoring the rising/lowering of the car is that you don't need to watch any gauges, you can feel the car move. So you can focus on observing. And as I mentioned, the rev matching method doesn't consider different grades of hills.

No doubt your posts are helpful, I just disagree slightly with this one small point:)

J_R

Hi,

When teaching a pupil to move off or do a hill start I never used the rev counter. Found it completely unnecessary. Perhaps one of the reasons is that when I started as a driving instructor few cars had rev counters. Especially the cars young drivers purchased as their first car.

But the main reason is that learner drivers sometimes have no concept of time. I have watched learners who had been to other schools stare down at the rev counter for long long seconds as they juggled with the accelerator pedal in an attempt to set it and hold it exactly right. And I have seen quite a few put their heads right down to see better, therefore totally blind to what is happening in the vicinity. (Worst case scenario, plenty of time for say a child to crawl under the car to retrieve a ball)

And it is completely unnecessary. First I will have taught them to move off, by listening to the engine note then it was just a simple step forward to do a hill start. Told them they are asking the car to do more work therefore they must give it a bit more power. As I always used a very steep hill told them they must now also let the clutch "bite" a little bit more to overcome gravity.

Doing a hill start, as the clutch is released (slowly) the car goes through three distinct stages.
1. Clutch fully depressed. Gravity is pulling the car backwards against the handbrake.
2. The holding point. The car is balanced, the engine and gravity exerts equal pull.
3. Clutch up very slightly more. The engine is now pulling the car forward against the handbrake, which is the stage wanted for a perfect hill startt.

These stages could be found by carefully:-
listening to the engine note, watching for the car to lift, by actually feeling the car move on the suspensions, or watching for the rev counter to 'dip'

If they were happier using the "lift" method, as a car I used for quite some years was a Golf the bonnet was not visible, I had them use the right wing mirror. When the car "lifted", the mirror dipped and the ground appeared to move.

However, horses for courses, whatever works I suppose

shooter88

LDC ADI 34490 wrote: »

The hill start is one of the most intimidating features for those learning to drive and indeed even for more experienced drivers. When hill starts go wrong you’ll more than likely experience one of the following:

• The car stalling
• The car rolling back

Firstly let’s have a look at why a car stalls on a hill start.

1. Your car may stall on a hill start if you don’t have enough gas (accelerator). You must set the gas to at least between 2000 - 3000 revs (in a diesel car its less revs) in order to give the car the power to get up the hill.
2. Your car may also stall on a hill start if the clutch comes up to fast (i.e. past the bite point) therefore not allowing the clutch plate and the fly wheel to engage smoothly.

Now let’s look at why cars roll back on hill starts.

1. Your car will roll backwards if you do not apply your handbrake when stopped on a hill.
2. When looking to move off again on a hill start your car will roll backward if you release the handbrake before you’ve found the bite point. This is one of the biggest misunderstandings with the hill start. Most people assume it’s the gas pedal that moves the car up the hill when in fact it’s a combination of the clutch and the gas pedal. Your car will struggle to move up the hill unless you’ve both found the bite point and set the gas to at least between 2000 - 3000 revs.

Here is the correct procedure for hill starts.

1. Secure your car on the hill with your handbrake
2. Clutch to the floor and select 1st gear
3. Set the gas to between approx 2000 - 3000 revs (less in a diesel car) and hold the gas pedal steady
4. Slowly bring the clutch up to the bite point and hold at the bite point (NB don’t come up even a fraction higher on the bite point while your handbrake is on). You'll know your at the bite point when you hear the revs drop
5. Release your handbrake while keeping your clutch at the bite and keeping your revs set to approx 2000 - 3000 with your gas pedal.
6. Keep your clutch coming up very slowly (about the width of a euro coin at a time) while pressing your gas pedal down slightly further to give the car more revs and therefore power and your car will start to move up the hill.

If you follow this routine you will rarely have any issues with your hill start again



Thanks,
Padraic

id say 2000 revs..3000 is to much and the way your on about releasing the clutch is called riding the clutch revving and holding on the bite and releasing very slow will burn the clutch out...

LDC ADI 34490

shooter88 wrote: »

id say 2000 revs..3000 is to much and the way your on about releasing the clutch is called riding the clutch revving and holding on the bite and releasing very slow will burn the clutch out...

Riding the clutch means taking too long to release the clutch pedal fully. On a steep incline however, it is necessary to let the clutch out more slowly allowing the vehicle to get momentum.

Remember a learner driver is not going to be as fluid or as smooth as an experienced driver at setting the gas and finding the bite and will often stall a car due to releasing the clutch to quickly.

It can be difficult to get the feel for the bite point early in the learning process (as I'm sure boards posters who are actually learner drivers will testify) but with practice, once you do get the balance of the clutch and the gas pedal moving off will become instinctive. You will be no longer need to be watching the rev counter, you'll be more competent of bringing the clutch up quickly to the bite and moving off smoothly.

Thanks,
Padraic