Bunkers

BMClaois

I understand the weather has been playing havoc lately with green keepers keeping courses in good nick and all that but I played yesterday, the course and greens were superb but the bunkers were terrible, nearly unplayable. Maybe a pick, rake and drop local ruling? What are your opinions on this?

MP62

BMClaois wrote: »

I understand the weather has been playing havoc lately with green keepers keeping courses in good nick and all that but I played yesterday, the course and greens were superb but the bunkers were terrible, nearly unplayable. Maybe a pick, rake and drop local ruling? What are your opinions on this?

If they were that bad before the start of play then yes a local rule making them GUR could have been put in place.

TheDoc

Urban myth or truth?

If a rake is not in the bunker or in the vacinity of the bunker, the bunker is out of play, and a free drop is taken no nearer the hole?

Saturday gone there was a rake missing from a bunker, thought nothing of it and was lining up and then one of the group mentioned I could take a free drop. Was very quickly ratified by the others, was a bit sceptical but they were certain.

Took my drop and played on, I wrote a little note on the back of the card to explain, pro shop was closed. But score went through and my handicap adjusted and wasnt DQ'd..

MP62

TheDoc wrote: »

Urban myth or truth?

If a rake is not in the bunker or in the vacinity of the bunker, the bunker
is out of play, and a free drop is taken no nearer the hole?

I seriously hope this is just a poor attempt at humour on your behalf, because no one could be that gullible.

Saturday gone there was a rake missing from a bunker, thought nothing of it
and was lining up and then one of the group mentioned I could take a free drop.
Was very quickly ratified by the others, was a bit sceptical but they were
certain.
Took my drop and played on, I wrote a little note on the back of the card to
explain, pro shop was closed. But score went through and my handicap adjusted
and wasnt DQ'd

I'd say the rake not been there was just a conicidence and that all bunkers were out of play on that day and perhaps you just didn't read the notice in the clubhouse but your playing partners did.

TheDoc

MP62 wrote: »

I seriously hope this is just a poor attempt at humour on your behalf, because no one could be that gullible.

Erm, nope..

I'd say the rake not been there was just a conicidence and that all bunkers were out of play on that day and perhaps you just didn't read the notice in the clubhouse but your playing partners did.

Erm, nope again.

Bunkers were played out off, they were fine, the lads just said when a rake isn't there, it signal out of play and that its a drop.

As I said, it was said by playing partners who I very much assumed were correct, and to be safe added a note to the back of my card, which was no DQ'd.

ManwitaPlan

I'm willing to pay for round of golf + drinks in the clubhouse for anybody willing to go out in front of me clearing rakes from every bunker on the course.

Howjoe1

I had a similar issue last Friday. The course and bunkers were find when we started out. We had a few almighty monsoon like downpours. Water ended up sitting 6 inches deep in some bunkers. At the top end the sand had almost been completely washed away revealing stones and gravel.

I hit a ball into one of them that stuck in a sort of stone ravine that the rain had caused, just about the width of a golf ball and 6 inches below the level of the sand either side.

In normal circumstances I imagine we would have been called in off the course until the weather improved and the bunkers and greens cleared of water. But it was a classic and we were told to play on.

It was nearly impossible to drop the ball in the bunker in a non flooded area. If we were only starting out I'd imagine the bunkers would have been deemed GUR.

But given we had no ruling and even though sand had been almost entirely washed away, we decided that the drop had to take place in the bunker..leading to a plugged ball.

Is there any exception to the rule to drop within when the weather has been so severe to leave the bunker devoid of sand in nearly all the non waterlogger parts?

MP62

TheDoc wrote: »

Erm, nope..


Erm, nope again.

Bunkers were played out off, they were fine, the lads just said when a rake isn't there, it signal out of play and that its a drop.

As I said, it was said by playing partners who I very much assumed were correct, and to be safe added a note to the back of my card, which was no DQ'd.

Oh dear God this just gets better and better. In case you didn't pick up from my first response, I'll spell it out in simple terms, you're buddies were wrong and you should be DQ for signing for an incorrect score, if you want do the honourable thing then get in touch with the Comp. sec. and tell him what happened.

fullstop

TheDoc wrote: »

Urban myth or truth?

If a rake is not in the bunker or in the vacinity of the bunker, the bunker is out of play, and a free drop is taken no nearer the hole?

Saturday gone there was a rake missing from a bunker, thought nothing of it and was lining up and then one of the group mentioned I could take a free drop. Was very quickly ratified by the others, was a bit sceptical but they were certain.

Took my drop and played on, I wrote a little note on the back of the card to explain, pro shop was closed. But score went through and my handicap adjusted and wasnt DQ'd..

No chance! That's ludicrous.

Webbs

TheDoc wrote: »

Bunkers were played out off, they were fine, the lads just said when a rake isn't there, it signal out of play and that its a drop.

As I said, it was said by playing partners who I very much assumed were correct, and to be safe added a note to the back of my card, which was no DQ'd.

So a group has gone through not knowing this strange rule your mates decided on and hit out of a bunker with no rake and then went and got a rake from another bunker to rake it and just throws it down, which bunker is now out of play?
I have never heard of such a weird interpretation and note or not then you should DQ yourself

TheDoc

MP62 wrote: »

Oh dear God this just gets better and better. I

mag

TheDoc wrote: »

Urban myth or truth?

If a rake is not in the bunker or in the vacinity of the bunker, the bunker is out of play, and a free drop is taken no nearer the hole?

Saturday gone there was a rake missing from a bunker, thought nothing of it and was lining up and then one of the group mentioned I could take a free drop. Was very quickly ratified by the others, was a bit sceptical but they were certain.

Took my drop and played on, I wrote a little note on the back of the card to explain, pro shop was closed. But score went through and my handicap adjusted and wasnt DQ'd..

to be clear - your partners were 100% wrong. bunkers can only be out of play if explicitly marked as such or you're informed that theyre all out of play beforehand. you cant just assume a bunker is out of play because theres no rake.

MP62

TheDoc wrote: »

No surprise there that you're struggling to figure that one out.
Hint neither of the above, just telling it how it is.

MP62

TheDoc wrote: »

No surprise there then that you're struggling to figure that one out.
Hint neither of the above, just telling it how it is.

Myksyk

Sounds like you need a quick call to a committee member outlining the issue and that members are going around happily taking free drops. Although theres a very slight chance tast it could be some weird local rule It's something that should be clarified either way.

TheDoc

I'll bring it up at the weekend.

One of the quartet I know so I'll mention it to him when I see it next that it was pony.

golfwallah

TheDoc wrote: »

Urban myth or truth?

If a rake is not in the bunker or in the vacinity of the bunker, the bunker is out of play, and a free drop is taken no nearer the hole?

There is no rule of golf allowing a free drop in such circumstances. Can't see how your club committee or match / handicap secretary could draft a local rule to cover such situations, either, Just think about it, a rake could be absent from a bunker for any reason (not just a deliberate act, authorised by committee to signal that a bunker is out of play). But to clarify, you should contact your club match / handicap secretary and also read the local rules on your club notice boards.

Saturday gone there was a rake missing from a bunker, thought nothing of it and was lining up and then one of the group mentioned I could take a free drop. Was very quickly ratified by the others, was a bit sceptical but they were certain.

If you check up on the rules (available on line on the randa site), you will quickly find that it is not permitted to agree on a change to the rules of golf. There are a lot of "experts" about "who are certain about the rules". But, as golf is a self regulated game and registered golfers should familiarise themselves with the rules, I have found that the only way to be sure is to check it for yourself.

Took my drop and played on, I wrote a little note on the back of the card to explain, pro shop was closed. But score went through and my handicap adjusted and wasnt DQ'd..

The computer system is set up to adjust handicaps automatically and, from experience, normal practice on closing competitions is to scrutinise only those cards that have winning scores. You need to bear in mind that it takes a lot of voluntary time and effort to close competitions, so it is unrealistic to expect all cards to be examined back and front for player remarks. And even if a player is disqualified, their handicap will still be adjusted (provided they haven't been "maxed" out).

I'm not trying to be smart with the above, nor is it intended to be comprehensive. But I have always found it better to get to know as much about the rules as I can and ask someone on committee (or the club pro) if in doubt.:)

TheDoc

I've checked it and yeah, its not a rule.

My card had a note attached, so surely must have gained traction.

Either or, I finished the round over par, gained .1 back and my score added to the CSS, which is better, imo, then someone scrapping a card as NR as it affects CSS.

So no damage done really, and I've come out the other side. Not with the bunker issue, just when in doubt, just playing the ball as it lies.

But there is a little bit oh high horse going on aswell I have to say. If you are told by three people, who you don't know, and don't know each other ( I kinda knew one to talk to) and one mentions a "rule", second guy goes " yup" and third guy goes " yeah thats what I have been told" then its hard to stand back and go " Sorry lads, no dice"

Especially considering I'm 24, and these guys were twice my age playing the game before I was born.

Assumptions were made, but I wasn't going to be pulling out the rulebook or the phone to check online, I just got on with it.

If anything, more then focusing on the actual bunker issue, be interesting to know how to tackle that situation again in the future.

golfwallah

TheDoc wrote: »

I've checked it and yeah, its not a rule.

Good stuff!

My card had a note attached, so surely must have gained traction.

Maybe, it was noticed but maybe not. Not a big issue, IMO, as you weren't in the prizes.

Either or, I finished the round over par, gained .1 back and my score added to the CSS, which is better, imo, then someone scrapping a card as NR as it affects CSS.

Exactly. Always better to return your card in competitions. As you say, it affects the CSS and is a requirement under the rules, AFAIK (not sure if its covered under R & A Rules or CONGU Handicapping rules, but you can look these up online, anyway).

So no damage done really, and I've come out the other side. Not with the bunker issue, just when in doubt, just playing the ball as it lies.

Wouldn't think so and sound advice, IMO.

But there is a little bit oh high horse going on aswell I have to say. If you are told by three people, who you don't know, and don't know each other ( I kinda knew one to talk to) and one mentions a "rule", second guy goes " yup" and third guy goes " yeah thats what I have been told" then its hard to stand back and go " Sorry lads, no dice"

Especially considering I'm 24, and these guys were twice my age playing the game before I was born.

Assumptions were made, but I wasn't going to be pulling out the rulebook or the phone to check online, I just got on with it.

If anything, more then focusing on the actual bunker issue, be interesting to know how to tackle that situation again in the future.

Wouldn't worry too much about people with grey hairs who appear certain about the rules (they may have read them 15 years ago but rules are updated every 3 years). That said, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, so I find that a little charm and a smile always works with a response along the lines "thanks for the advice guys but, I've learned from recent experience that it's best to check out the rules to be absolutely sure. So, I think I'll just play it as it lies for now. Can do this online, so I'll let you all know about it when I've looked it up".