car rental company claims I put wrong fuel in car

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 8:34am #1

Hello,

I rented a diseel car a few weeks ago from a car rental company in Dublin. I refiled the tank with diesel once during the 2 -day rental period. I returned the car the next day with no issues. Then the day after, a guy from the company rang me and asked me if there were any issues with the car as they had detected some problem with the fuel tank, suspecting that the wrong fuel had been put in. I told him I had put in diesel.

Then this morning I got an invoice from the rental company for 250 Euros for flushing out the fuel. The notes on the invoice state: "car came in with wrong fuel, remove fuel tank and drain, flush out fuel system, rebuild same and return'

This seems outrageous to me as I put in the correct fuel. Any advice?
I can contact the petrol/diesel station and verify that I put in diesel.

CJhaughey · 07-08-2012 8:37am

Sounds like a scam to me, ask to see an engineers report and a sample of the alleged wrong fuel.
I would also get onto the filling station and see if they can provide CCTV footage of you filling diesel from their pump.

Joey the lips · 07-08-2012 8:37am

Have you got the station receipt. It usually says petrol or diesel on it.

Additionally as you say. Contact the station. The footage of you filling will show and most likely reveal what you put in.

A credit card receipt will also confirm

What ever you do. Contest it. Most rental cars i found have stickers on the fuel cover telling you the fuel.Did you see one saying diesel.....

P. Breathnach · 07-08-2012 9:04am

The sort of diesel engine fitted in modern cars could be badly damaged in next to no time if it is run on petrol, so the situation you describe could arise only if somebody filled the tank immediately before returning the car. I assume, as you fuelled it the previous day, that you drove some distance on the fuel you bought.

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 9:08am

Yes, I refuelled once in Waterford and drove back to Dublin - no issues with the engine whatsoever.

sparksfly · 07-08-2012 9:24am

Pdoghue wrote: »

Yes, I refuelled once in Waterford and drove back to Dublin - no issues with the engine whatsoever.

Then you did nothing wrong, not a chance of it travelling more than a fraction of a Kilometre with the wrong fuel.

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 9:25am

Just rang the service station and the guy verified that I put in diesel! He will send me a receipt.

TheBody · 07-08-2012 9:33am

Pdoghue wrote: »

Just rang the service station and the guy verified that I put in diesel! He will send me a receipt.

Great! Keep us posted. I'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

Melendez · 07-08-2012 9:35am

This post has been deleted.

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 9:42am

Hmm..

When I got the car, the tank was half-full. I returned it half-full, but didn't get a refuelling charge.

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 9:44am

And no, my credit card has not been charged yet.

youcancallmeal · 07-08-2012 9:52am

I posted a thread a while back about a car rental company in England making spurious claims of damage made to a car my father rented. Their evidence was very poor, it hasn't been resolved yet but it is looking like they are going to drop it. Our whole experience and hearing about others it seems to me that car rental companies will often make these ambiguous damage claims on the basis that every now and then somebody will not bother fighting and just pay up. Its a pity there is no regulator for Car Rental companies in Ireland?

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 10:14am

Cheers for the info youcancallmeal. How did you pursue the issue in England out of interest?

youcancallmeal · 07-08-2012 10:27am

Pdoghue wrote: »

Cheers for the info youcancallmeal. How did you pursue the issue in England out of interest?

They were demanding payment so we sent them a letter from our solicitor with a point by point breakdown of their flimsy claims. That was about 2 months ago and haven't hear anything back. Seems like your argument is pretty solid so I'd doubt a solicitor is even necessary. Just write them a letter detailing your evidence of innocence and they should probably see sense.

foggy_lad · 07-08-2012 10:55am

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The sort of diesel engine fitted in modern cars could be badly damaged in next to no time if it is run on petrol, so the situation you describe could arise only if somebody filled the tank immediately before returning the car. I assume, as you fuelled it the previous day, that you drove some distance on the fuel you bought.

Someone in the rental company has most likely filled the tank with petrol possibly after taking the car for a while themselves to use up most of the feul you had bought so they could charge you for a full tank, and is now trying to get out of paying for the damage.

OP you could go to a peace commissioner/commissioner for oaths and swear an oath that you put diesel into the car which would be backed up by your evidence and that you then drove from Waterford to Dublin so if you had put the wrong feul into the tank you would not have got far outside of waterford without serious damage to the engine, and also that you returned the car without a full tank. This would cost a small amount but would show these hire company chancers that you are serious.

Gillo · 07-08-2012 3:19pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Someone in the rental company has most likely filled the tank with petrol possibly after taking the car for a while themselves to use up most of the feul you had bought so they could charge you for a full tank, and is now trying to get out of paying for the damage.

Just sends a bit too far fetched in my opinion.
OP it's probably worth getting a copy of the cctv from the garage sooner than later as depending on their cctv system they may not keep it long.

Cabaal · 07-08-2012 4:12pm

err is it just me but if you put petrol in a diesel car won't it feck the engine? Fixing this would be farrr farr more then 250e

foggy_lad · 07-08-2012 4:18pm

Cabaal wrote: »

err is it just me but if you put petrol in a diesel car won't it feck the engine? Fixing this would be farrr farr more then 250e

Which is why it is more likely that someone from the rental company put the wrong fuel in the tank when topping it up and noticed their mistake immediately or the petrol mixed with diesel was noticed somehow and they then had the system drained of the offending fuel. There is no way the op would have got from Waterford to Dublin with petrol in a diesel car.

keithclancy · 07-08-2012 5:30pm

Cabaal wrote: »

err is it just me but if you put petrol in a diesel car won't it feck the engine? Fixing this would be farrr farr more then 250e

Depends how much you put in, I'd usually stick a fiver in my older TDI to get the emissions down for the NCT.

If you stuck in 20 euros you need to keep topping up the tank, it would drive away for ages depending on how much was already in it.

Diesel in a petrol is very unlikely, the nozzle doesn't fit properly and it'll keep clicking off/spraying out all over the place.

Would be very easy to tell, just take off the fuel line at the pump and smell it.

Although it can damage the Injectors/pumps on newer cars.

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 5:39pm

That sounds like a plausible scenario.

I'm drafting up a letter at the moment..

I put in 60 Euros worth of disesel by the way. The tank was so empty that the fuel indicator light had come on.

sandin · 07-08-2012 8:36pm

Melendez wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

These days you get the tank near empty and return it near empty too.

As for op, you'd be lucky to get 10km after putting wrong fuel in, so I'd tell this shower that if they attempt in any way to take this spurious charge against you, you will commence legal action and also find out through the media if they have scammed others including unsuspecting tourists with the scam.

Pdoghue · 07-08-2012 9:07pm

Cheers for the advice folks. What would be your recommended course of action now? I am currently drafting a letter laying out the facts as I saw them, and intend to enclose the diesel receipt.

fasttalkerchat · 07-08-2012 9:11pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Cheers for the advice folks. What would be your recommended course of action now? I am currently drafting a letter laying out the facts as I saw them, and intend to enclose the diesel receipt.

Did you contact your credit card provider? I would tip them off so they can block any unauthorised charges.

Ken. · 07-08-2012 9:22pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Cheers for the advice folks. What would be your recommended course of action now? I am currently drafting a letter laying out the facts as I saw them, and intend to enclose the diesel receipt.

Photocopy the receipt and send it. Keep the original yourself. Stuff "gets lost" in the post all the time, if you know what i mean.

sandin · 08-08-2012 8:05am

Pdoghue wrote: »

Cheers for the advice folks. What would be your recommended course of action now? I am currently drafting a letter laying out the facts as I saw them, and intend to enclose the diesel receipt.

I would send a copy of the letter and receipt to their corporate head office too as it is possible that it is a local revenue generating scam and suggest that you will take immediate legal action against the company if they pursue this matter and also ask for a retraction and apology.

Also, as they will not know where the fuel station is that you filled up in, tell them the distance you travelled from time of fill to handing back the car and let them know that even a 2 year child would understand that if a car was filled with incorrect fuel, it would not travel more than 5km before breaking down.

If it was rented at an airport, send a copy to the airport concessions manager too.

keithclancy · 08-08-2012 10:59am

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Did you contact your credit card provider? I would tip them off so they can block any unauthorised charges.

I don't think its an unauthorised charge since you signed the form agreeing to the charge.

At this point its a dispute of what actually happened.

Kind of like them saying you incurred a speeding ticket and you saying you didn't. As far as the Credit Card company is concerned you signed a form agreeing to any charges incurred. Disputing that charge is between you and the rental company.

fasttalkerchat · 08-08-2012 11:26pm

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't think its an unauthorised charge since you signed the form agreeing to the charge.

At this point its a dispute of what actually happened.

Kind of like them saying you incurred a speeding ticket and you saying you didn't. As far as the Credit Card company is concerned you signed a form agreeing to any charges incurred. Disputing that charge is between you and the rental company.

If there was a speeding ticket being applied to my credit card without my agreement and I knew it was not genuine I would do the same, infact to onus is on you to do so.

keithclancy · 10-08-2012 2:48pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If there was a speeding ticket being applied to my credit card without my agreement and I knew it was not genuine I would do the same, infact to onus is on you to do so.

No, I've had something similar happen in the past, you authorised the company to apply charges to your card, you can appeal afterward, but as far as the Credit Company is concerned your authorised the payment, whether the circumstances against the payment are correct or not is between you and the rental company.

What would be an unauthorised is being charged for someone elses car rental, you did not sign an agreement in that case, but even then the CC company would recommend you try to sort it out with the Rental Company first.

Otherwise everyone could just say "i didn't break that" or "that dent was on it when i got it"

Usually 1200 euros is held as a deposit on damage with a further clause in the contract that you sign (If you read it) that your liable for any charges incurred)

If your not happy with the contract then don't rent that car.

Del2005 · 12-08-2012 10:46am

Why is everyone assuming it was petrol in the fuel tank? Plenty of stations are selling washed diesel and with this being a hire car I doubt many people are worried about what they are putting in and more worried about how little it'll cost.

OP you need them to provide a sample of the fuel they drained. If they can't or don't provide a sample then they don't have a case against you, but they'll already have you money so you need to build a case for getting it back. Unfortunately it'll be hard to prove that it wasn't you who put the washed diesel in, unless the station you bought from is willing to provide a sample and it's from the correct tank.

Washed diesel won't kill a car straight away but it will destroy it.

fasttalkerchat · 12-08-2012 11:01am

Del2005 wrote: »

Why is everyone assuming it was petrol in the fuel tank? Plenty of stations are selling washed diesel and with this being a hire car I doubt many people are worried about what they are putting in and more worried about how little it'll cost.

OP you need them to provide a sample of the fuel they drained. If they can't or don't provide a sample then they don't have a case against you, but they'll already have you money so you need to build a case for getting it back. Unfortunately it'll be hard to prove that it wasn't you who put the washed diesel in, unless the station you bought from is willing to provide a sample and it's from the correct tank.

Washed diesel won't kill a car straight away but it will destroy it.

Some of the washed diesel being sold these days will kill a car. Now anyone with a bit of land along the border is giving it a go and you don't know what you're getting.

LoanShark · 12-08-2012 11:15am

I think people are getting a bit wide of the mark when they Re suggesting the OP may/maynot have put washed diesel into the car.. I agree that it is available out there but it's nothing to do with the case in hand..

OP, any chance you got a reading of the clock when you returned the car? And now get the company to give the reading of the amount of milage in it now.. Maybe there might just be a bit if an excess in the milage covered in the time.. As someone said maybe an employee used the car, and then put the wrong fuel into it and relaised their mess up, and pinned it in you....

Del2005 · 12-08-2012 5:09pm

LoanShark wrote: »

I think people are getting a bit wide of the mark when they Re suggesting the OP may/maynot have put washed diesel into the car.. I agree that it is available out there but it's nothing to do with the case in hand..

The OP may not have know they where putting washed diesel in, it could have gone in with the last renter. Plenty of stations are selling washed diesel, not just dodgy yards along the boarder, and people driving loaners don't tend to look at anything other than price when they refill.

dave1982 · 13-08-2012 7:45am

Do most new cars only allow the correct fuel nozzle into the petrol cap?

My wife's Yaris 06 is petrol and a diesel nozzle wont fit in.

P. Breathnach · 13-08-2012 8:00am

dave1982 wrote: »

Do most new cars only allow the correct fuel nozzle into the petrol cap?

My wife's Yaris 06 is petrol and a diesel nozzle wont fit in.

Think about it: the diesel nozzle is larger, so won't fit into the petrol filler pipe; the smaller petrol nozzle can fit into the wider diesel filler pipe.

the_syco · 13-08-2012 9:23am

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Think about it: the diesel nozzle is larger, so won't fit into the petrol filler pipe; the smaller petrol nozzle can fit into the wider diesel filler pipe.

I think they're a different shape, but could be corrected on that.

P. Breathnach · 13-08-2012 9:27am

the_syco wrote: »

I think they're a different shape, but could be corrected on that.

Just note the number of cases reported of people putting petrol into a diesel tank!

Pdoghue · 14-08-2012 3:56pm

Have written to the car rental place in Dublin and the corporate headquarters. Waiting to hear back now..

Pdoghue · 24-08-2012 5:27pm

Good news! Got an email the other day stating that they were closing the case. However the reasons for doing so are still a bit unclear. They couldn't pinpoint the reason for the deterioration in performance of the car, and said there was some confusion at their end which resulted in an invoice being issued to me. They said the following renter of the car only used it for half a day and reported the deterioration in performance, but that renter didn't put in any fuel themselves..

Ken. · 24-08-2012 5:30pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Good news! Got an email the other day stating that they were closing the case. However the reasons for doing so are still a bit unclear. They couldn't pinpoint the reason for the deterioration in performance of the car, and said there was some confusion at their end which resulted in an invoice being issued to me. They said the following renter of the car only used it for half a day and reported the deterioration in performance, but that renter didn't put in any fuel themselves..

Print out that email and keep it safe.

fasttalkerchat · 24-08-2012 5:34pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Good news! Got an email the other day stating that they were closing the case. However the reasons for doing so are still a bit unclear. They couldn't pinpoint the reason for the deterioration in performance of the car, and said there was some confusion at their end which resulted in an invoice being issued to me. They said the following renter of the car only used it for half a day and reported the deterioration in performance, but that renter didn't put in any fuel themselves..

Possibly the car was sluggish because of a mechanical issue and the fuel "smelled like petrol" to someone at the rental outlet so they jumped to one conclusion. Luckily you had the sense to dispute the charge.

fox_1973 · 24-08-2012 6:58pm

Pdoghue wrote: »

Good news! Got an email the other day stating that they were closing the case. However the reasons for doing so are still a bit unclear. They couldn't pinpoint the reason for the deterioration in performance of the car, and said there was some confusion at their end which resulted in an invoice being issued to me. They said the following renter of the car only used it for half a day and reported the deterioration in performance, but that renter didn't put in any fuel themselves..

Delighted for you, had a problem not so different to yours with a hire car company a few years back which resulted in me spending far too much time phoning and mailing them, but they saw sense in the end, well done to you for chasing it up

TheBody · 24-08-2012 6:58pm

Result!! Well done op.

jack presley · 24-08-2012 7:25pm

I had a spurious claim made on me by a car rental company a few years back and when I complained they dropped it without a fight. So I reckon they must just try it on and maybe one in ten or whatever will just accept it and pay up

TheTurk1972 · 26-08-2012 2:32pm

I worked in a car rental outfit for the summer long ago.
I could tell you some stories about the scams they did on their customers, but they were so outrageous you wouldnt believe me.
Channel 4 Dispatches should put some undercover employees to car rental firms. There would be a great program in it.

car rental company claims I put wrong fuel in car

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