A question on the legality of classic insurance and limo tax, non-PSV licensed driver

Popoutman

A quick one for people who may know a bit more about the situation than I do.

Are there any legal problems with owning e.g. a 20 year old car that has limousine tax on it, but is insured as a classic, owned and driven by a person that does not hold a PSV license?

Does the legal situation change if that person gains a PSV license?

Victor

What is the vehicle being used for?

What does the policy say?

Popoutman

Insurance policy would say social & domestic. The car would get used as a weekend car, not for fare-paying passengers.

The question arose from a conversation I had with a few friends about car ownership and second cars, as I have my Audi and the MR2 as well, and we've all been looking at the cheap larger-engined premium-brand cars on the market here, and were looking at how to be cost-efficient and remain legally above board. I was looking at picking up an older Merc V8 with limo tax and insuring as a classic and not using it as a fare-carrier.

What we had thought (while being completely uneducated about the exact situation as we are not involved in the motor trade nor involved in the carrying of fare-paying passengers) of the situation was that it was not necessary to hold a PSV license to drive a limo-taxed car, as long as the insurance in use was legally correct.

My insurance documentation does not state that I am prevented from driving a limo-taxed car, but that I am prevented from carrying fare-paying passengers. I've yet to contact the insurers to clarify this, it is a bank-holiday weekend after all. If I do not hold a PSV license, I think that I am allowed to drive a limo-taxed vehicle with the only restriction being that I would not be allowed to take paying passengers. If my classic insurance documents are the same across cars, then there are no obvious restrictions on insuring for social & domestic on a limo-taxed car other than the fare paying passengers.

The question regarding the PSV licensing was that if the driver is holding one, while driving a limo-taxed car, it may be difficult to show that they are not capable of carrying fares.

I suppose I'll just have to contact the classic insurance company and see what they say about providing classic insurance on a limo-taxed car, and have a chat with a friendly Garda regarding the legality of driving a limo-taxed car on a standard car license.

corktina

i reckon the Limo tax class is for vehicles in use as Limos. If you arent using it as a Limo, it should have normal tax on it. I don't think the tax Class is based on the vehicle TYPE , but on its USAGE, I imagine it would need a DOE cert too, like a bus or taxi

Might as well drive it untaxed as drive it with PSV tax, total non runner from a legal perspective. Taxi cars are NCTd not DOEd.

Henry Ford III

Insurance would be fine but it'd be incorrectly taxed and falsely declared too. If the feds caught you there'd be a whole heap of whup ass.

aujopimur

Limo tax is like comm. tax or taxi tax, buisness use only, no leisure use.

mathepac

aujopimur wrote: »

Limo tax is like comm. tax or taxi tax, buisness use only, no leisure use.

I think you mean no private use, just like farmers can't collocr the kids, go to mass or go shopping in their massive lo-tax tractors. Yeah right.

Mick O'Leary drove a taxi to work for years as it allowed him to use bus lanes around Dublin and had lower tax than a private car, etc.

Is that not the same thing

aujopimur

Micheal O'Leary taxi is driven by a licenced spsv/taxi driver.

coylemj

If there's passenger accommodation for more than 8 people (excluding the driver), the regular class B driving licence won't cover you, you'd need at least Class D.

goz83

As above, if it's not being used as a psv, it should not be taxed as such. Yes, there are plenty of commercially taxed vehicles, which are used for private purposes, but the vast majority are also used for commercial purposes. The limo is not going to be used (as you said) for commercial purposes, so it should not be taxed as such.

Spook_ie

mathepac wrote: »

I think you mean no private use, just like farmers can't collocr the kids, go to mass or go shopping in their massive lo-tax tractors. Yeah right.

Mick O'Leary drove a taxi to work for years as it allowed him to use bus lanes around Dublin and had lower tax than a private car, etc.

Is that not the same thing

aujopimur wrote: »

Micheal O'Leary taxi is driven by a licenced spsv/taxi driver.

Michael O'Leary set up a subsidiary company, employed a driver and used the taxi company as a supplier t himself for transport service, a cute loop hole that he exploited successfully.

As to the OP, afaik there is no requirement to have a PSV license to own a Limo, however, you would be limited to any use as a limo that could be construed as "incidental", you would also be required to have the car retested and re-licensed yearly, every 6 months is being mentioned in the new laws for taxis and hackneys so would presumably be extended to limos. You would also require to have insurance on the vehicle that covered you for hire and reward as it is a stipulation of the license that it is covered by such insurance for the term of the license.

<edit> As the limo license is non transferable, you would need to apply for a license in your own right, as I would assume that the original owner would not be renewing the license at the expiry after selling on the vehicle<end of edit>

Regardless of the requirement or not for yourself to hold an SPSV drivers license, there would be other requirements that you would also need to comply with, including ( but not limited to ) a tax clearance certificate ( required on renewal ) which necessitates that you fill in a tax return yearly for earnings etc.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-vehicle-licensing/apply-for-an-spsv-vehicle-licence-2/

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-vehicle-licensing/required-documents-for-vehicle-licensing/

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-vehicle-licensing/spsv-licensing-terms-and-conditions/

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Initial-Suitability-Inspection-Manual-Dec-2011_PDF.pdf

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-vehicle-licensing/list-of-vehicle-licensing-fees/


Summary

License €1000 Once off
Inspection €125 per year
NCT €55
Insurance €?????
RFL €86?
TC2 €free if you're compliant
Safety Kit €60 Needs replacing when any dated items expire

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but majority of answers should be here somewhere

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/

Where To

Any vehicle can't be taxed as a SPSV unless it is licenced as a SPSV.

It can't be licenced as a SPSV without being insured as a SPSV.

mickdw

A lot of limos are sold on with a years tax. Id say there are a fair number of private drivers going around on limo tax when they shouldn't be. Probably gets them past most checkpoints too. Its totally dodgy though.