More than half of drivers not alcohol tested at serious crashes

Iwannahurl

Heard this on Morning Ireland today, and here it is on the RTE website:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0802/drivers-not-being-alcohol-tested-at-crash-scenes.html

More than half of drivers involved in crashes where someone was killed or injured were not tested for their alcohol level in the second half of last year, new figures have shown.

This is despite mandatory breath testing being introduced last year for those at the scene of all road crashes where someone has been killed or injured.

320 drivers were involved in such crashes between July and December 2011, but according to garda figures, 175 of them could not be tested.

107 drivers were involved in fatal crashes in that time and of those, 62 were not tested. Of 213 involved in a serious injury collision, 113 could not be tested.

The figures emerged from the Department of Justice in response to a parliamentary question from Deputy Tommy Broughan.

Reasons for not testing included that the driver was removed to hospital, fatally injured or was unknown. In crashes involving a serious injury they also included accidents when there was insufficient time to conduct the test, or where the driver was arrested.
In 8% of crashes the driver was not tested because a garda formed an opinion alcohol was not a contributory factor to the cause of the crash.

In two such cases someone was killed, while in 24 a serious injury was incurred.

PARC, a group representing victims of road accidents, says members are shocked and angry that testing was not being carried out despite the change in the law.

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar said that under the law as it stands anyone who is involved in a collision causing a serious injury has to be mandatorily breath tested.

He noted that there are exceptions within the law where it would damage the person's health to have a breath test, where someone has died, or where they have been arrested anyway.

But he said he is concerned that the law perhaps is not being enforced fully.

And he said that that is something he is going to have to discuss with the Garda Commissioner and the Minister for Justice.

He said that it is important that laws enacted by the Oireachtas are enforced.

The Garda Press Office said it would be inappropriate to comment on correspondence between members of the Oireachtas but pointed out that there were a number of exemptions to mandatory testing, such as in cases where it might damage the person’s health.

The Irish Medical Organisation and PARC have called for monthly reports to be made available to show how many drivers are being tested - and explanations where necessary as to why they are not.

The IMO also said that the figures were an improvement on the situation previous to the legislation being implemented, when only one in 10 people involved in crashes were being tested.

That Garda Press Office comment is rather odd, IMO. Standard practice in relation to the published comments of elected representatives?

spank_inferno

The press officer probably couldn't think of a better excuse not to answer the question.

I suppose in the event of a serious crash the injured party may not be in a position not to give a sample.

seamus

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That Garda Press Office comment is rather odd, IMO. Standard practice in relation to the published comments of elected representatives?

It would be inappropriate for the Gardai to comment of course, because the defence forces should remain strictly apolitical and not get involved.
The relevant Minister(s) are the ones who should respond.

Though I suspect that this "standard practice" is as much about not putting their foot in it, or buying some time to come up with a response as it is about staying out of it.

Really hard to comment otherwise without the actual figures involved. If half the drivers involved in serious crashes are killed or removed to hospital, then I don't see the issue. But it doesn't say how many of those not tested were incapable of being tested.

Though 8% just not done because the Gardai didn't think it was necessary? Surely that's half the point of the bloody test, to remove any guesswork? I'm also curious to know what "insufficient time" refers to, if it doesn't refer to people taken to hospital. You have the guy, he's at the side of the road. A roadside breath test takes 3 minutes to administer. How do you run out of time?

Also a bit odd that when someone is arrested, they don't bother with the roadside test. Do they go ahead with a proper test in the station as a matter of course?

Though if we flip the figures, I guess it's good to see now that half of all serious road accidents have a breath test carried out afterwards. Be interesting to see what the positive rate is on those tests.

tayto lover

Many of the fatal accidents are one car crashes and you can't breathyalize a dead person. That is done by blood sample in the morgue.
Obviously where there is a two car fatal crash then if the other driver who survives is unfit to be breathyalized on the road then the hospital can take a blood sample i'd imagine.

dr.fuzzenstein

Ah shure, be grand. That's why.

urajoke

I accept the occasions when a test cannot be conducted but going back to the article it says in 8% of accidents/incidents Gardai in their opinion decided alcohol was not a contributing factor, I'm sorry but it's MANDATORY therefore I assume those Gardai will be advised of the error of their ways and will cover their arses and investigate the accident/incident completely.

Iwannahurl

seamus wrote: »

1. It would be inappropriate for the Gardai to comment of course, because the defence forces should remain strictly apolitical and not get involved. The relevant Minister(s) are the ones who should respond.

2. Though I suspect that this "standard practice" is as much about not putting their foot in it, or buying some time to come up with a response as it is about staying out of it.

3. Really hard to comment otherwise without the actual figures involved. If half the drivers involved in serious crashes are killed or removed to hospital, then I don't see the issue. But it doesn't say how many of those not tested were incapable of being tested.

4. Though 8% just not done because the Gardai didn't think it was necessary? Surely that's half the point of the bloody test, to remove any guesswork? I'm also curious to know what "insufficient time" refers to, if it doesn't refer to people taken to hospital. You have the guy, he's at the side of the road. A roadside breath test takes 3 minutes to administer. How do you run out of time?

Also a bit odd that when someone is arrested, they don't bother with the roadside test. Do they go ahead with a proper test in the station as a matter of course?

Though if we flip the figures, I guess it's good to see now that half of all serious road accidents have a breath test carried out afterwards. Be interesting to see what the positive rate is on those tests.

1. AGS are willing to comment on 'political' matters when they feel the need.

2. AGS were invited to participate in the Morning Ireland discussion but did not provide a spokesperson.

3. I presume you mean you don't see the issue with testing? Presumably drivers can be easily tested (eg blood or urine) in the hospital setting. It's essential to know in detail the specific reasons for not testing, IMO, on a case by case basis if necessary. If there are genuine practical or methodological problems with the testing procedure then these must be tackled.

4. As urajoke says, alcohol testing is mandatory. No excuses. That said, there were only two cases in the "not necessary" category.

ABajaninCork

Jesus wept...

mb1725

Maybe there's a shortage of breathalysers to go around with the cutbacks.

urajoke

Iwannahurl wrote: »

4. As urajoke says, alcohol testing is mandatory. No excuses. That said, there were only two cases in the "not necessary" category.

No in 8% of accidents they decided on no need for a test, of those 8% there were 2 deaths.

Iwannahurl

urajoke wrote: »

No in 8% of accidents they decided on no need for a test, of those 8% there were 2 deaths.

Thanks for that.

I was going by the Irish Times report of August 3rd, which said that "two drivers were not tested because a Garda formed the opinion that alcohol was not a contributory factor to the collision."

That same report stated that "more than 10 per cent of drivers (24) were not tested because a Garda formed the opinion that alcohol was not a contributory factor to the collision."

I'm getting confused now, but I don't have time at the moment to work out why!





EDIT: I think it has to do with fatal, injury only and all crashes...