Alternator gone on Vectra- opinions?

Casati

Hi- have a 07 CDTI 120 Vectra and think alternator might be gone- car was a little hard to start recently but no lights showing and this morning battery was flat. I jump started it this evening and she started fine, but car seemed to have a no current- i.e. engine was running but no power steering, no lights, rev counter etc. Wont re-start, battery completely dead (4 amps).

Have put it on a charge overnight now but I'm worried that even if she starts in the morning and the alternator isn't working right I will get stuck down the road- how do I know for sure its the alternator? Also with the battery having been fully discharged will I likely need to replace it soon too? If the alternator is shot, should I buy a new one or bring it to somewhere like Myles Balfe to get it reconditioned?
Cheers

martyc5674

Casati wrote: »

Hi- have a 07 CDTI 120 Vectra and think alternator might be gone- car was a little hard to start recently but no lights showing and this morning battery was flat. I jump started it this evening and she started fine, but car seemed to have a no current- i.e. engine was running but no power steering, no lights, rev counter etc. Wont re-start, battery completely dead (4 amps).

Have put it on a charge overnight now but I'm worried that even if she starts in the morning and the alternator isn't working right I will get stuck down the road- how do I know for sure its the alternator? Also with the battery having been fully discharged will I likely need to replace it soon too? If the alternator is shot, should I buy a new one or bring it to somewhere like Myles Balfe to get it reconditioned?
Cheers

No power steering...???... I'm not at all familiar with the car in question but the first thing I'd be checking is if the aux belt/serpentine (fan belt) is actually still on the pulleys.
Marty.

bryaner

martyc5674 wrote: »

No power steering...???... I'm not at all familiar with the car in question but the first thing I'd be checking is if the aux belt/serpentine (fan belt) is actually still on the pulleys.
Marty.

+ 1 sounds like belt..

Nissan doctor

Doesn't sound like an alternator.

What voltage are you getting at the battery when the engine is running?

Casati

martyc5674 wrote: »

No power steering...???... I'm not at all familiar with the car in question but the first thing I'd be checking is if the aux belt/serpentine (fan belt) is actually still on the pulleys.
Marty.

When it was running the belt seemed to be okay, will check that again though

Casati

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Doesn't sound like an alternator.

What voltage are you getting at the battery when the engine is running?

Don't know as I hadn't the multimeter to hand when I jumped started it - but my guess is that it was really low- i.e. even while the engine was running there was not enough power to even turn the radio on, left it running for 10 mins and the battery didn't seem to charge at all.

Nissan doctor

Casati wrote: »

Don't know as I hadn't the multimeter to hand when I jumped started it - but my guess is that it was really low- i.e. even while the engine was running there was not enough power to even turn the radio on, left it running for 10 mins and the battery didn't seem to charge at all.

The problem is, if there was not enough power to run the radio/dash ect then there would be no-where near enough power to run the common rail diesel injection system, meaning the engine couldn't run.

If you can get hold of a multi meter and check the voltage at the battery when the engine is running and start from there.

mickdw

Fixed a vectra recently with exactly the same problem. Google put me in the right direction. The car failed without warning, no battery light, no other warning lights. You could charge it overnight but it would be gone again pretty quick, Steering assistance not working and as it ran out of power, wouldnt rev and generally everything went crazy.
Anyway, google told me that the rectifier in the denso alternators as fitted to most of those cars was a weak point and a youtube video told me what to look for on the failed rectifier.
Whipped out the alternator and sure enough, failed as described. New rectifier obtained from a local guy for €25, bolt it in and 3 solders, stick the lot back in the car and all is well since.
Link to tem on ebay that we bought:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OPEL-VECTRA-ASTRA-SAAB-1-9CTDI-DENSO-ALTERNATOR-RECTIFIER-/150839742571?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item231ebfd06b

Youtube guide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHFMhG47VGk

We had no battery warning but fault with rectifier was as demonstrated in video.

bryaner

Possibly alternator clutch pulley fecked, just a guess with the power steering probs..

Casati

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The problem is, if there was not enough power to run the radio/dash ect then there would be no-where near enough power to run the common rail diesel injection system, meaning the engine couldn't run.

If you can get hold of a multi meter and check the voltage at the battery when the engine is running and start from there.

I put it on charge overnight and when I got home this evening tested the battery- it was showing 13.96 volts. Once I started it, it dropped to 11.96 (approx - reading was not constant). All interior lights and power steering working as normal with engine running, but battery warning light is lit. I left the engine running at about 2,000 rev's for about 10 mins and turned it off. Its now showing 12.26 volts.

Any idea's?

Casati

mickdw wrote: »

Fixed a vectra recently with exactly the same problem. Google put me in the right direction. The car failed without warning, no battery light, no other warning lights. You could charge it overnight but it would be gone again pretty quick, Steering assistance not working and as it ran out of power, wouldnt rev and generally everything went crazy.
Anyway, google told me that the rectifier in the denso alternators as fitted to most of those cars was a weak point and a youtube video told me what to look for on the failed rectifier.
Whipped out the alternator and sure enough, failed as described. New rectifier obtained from a local guy for €25, bolt it in and 3 solders, stick the lot back in the car and all is well since.
Link to tem on ebay that we bought:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OPEL-VECTRA-ASTRA-SAAB-1-9CTDI-DENSO-ALTERNATOR-RECTIFIER-/150839742571?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item231ebfd06b

Youtube guide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHFMhG47VGk

We had no battery warning but fault with rectifier was as demonstrated in video.

Had a look at the video and know for sure I won't attempt doing any of that myself! Looks v time consuming if you know what you are doing so I could see myself at that for days- thanks a million for sending it on though. I wonder is that basically all the guys reconditioning the units do?

Nissan doctor

Casati wrote: »

I put it on charge overnight and when I got home this evening tested the battery- it was showing 13.96 volts. Once I started it, it dropped to 11.96 (approx - reading was not constant). All interior lights and power steering working as normal with engine running, but battery warning light is lit. I left the engine running at about 2,000 rev's for about 10 mins and turned it off. Its now showing 12.26 volts.

Any idea's?

Have you checked the belt yet? If the battery light is on then it is a fault with the charging system. Are you able to check the output of the alternator directly?

bryaner

An auto electrician will tell you in a matter of mins op, find a decent one in your area..

Nissan doctor

bryaner wrote: »

An auto electrician will tell you in a matter of mins op, find a decent one in your area..

Or any decent mechanic...

Lucifer

It's most likely the alternator or its pulley. I have done a few.

The reason the power steering failed at the same time is it is elecrohydraulic, meaning it uses an ordinary hydraulic rack, but an electric pump instead of a belt driven pump.When the battery voltage drops it cuts the power steering to save power.

Many cars are using these systems as it reduces the emissions by having less things being ran off the engine itself. This helps keep them in a lower tax bracket.

They also use this type or also fully electric power steering as it is also more controllable, you can increase the current to the motor at low vehicle speed to increase the assistance of the power steering to help parking etc and lower it at higher speeds when it becomes less necessary, a bit like the fiat Punto city button.

bryaner

Nissan doctor wrote: »

bryaner wrote: »

An auto electrician will tell you in a matter of mins op, find a decent one in your area..

Or any decent mechanic...

There are many alleged "decent mechanics" out there that haven't a clue when it comes to auto electrics..

Nissan doctor

bryaner wrote: »

There are many alleged "decent mechanics" out there that haven't a clue when it comes to auto electrics..

Then it could be argued that they are not decent mechanics:P

Maybe the more up to date term of technitian is better as modern vehicle technitians need to know every bit as much about computer and electronic systems as nuts and bolts.

Casati

I don't know how to test the alternator itself, guess I'd need a ramp to get at it? Based on the numbers I'm seeing does it sound like the alternator?

martyc5674

Casati wrote: »

I don't know how to test the alternator itself, guess I'd need a ramp to get at it? Based on the numbers I'm seeing does it sound like the alternator?

Is your battery holding charge overnight??
Or is it only dying as a result of running the car...

Your figures aren't highlighting too much.... You may have an intermittent problem or a poor connection.

You should be seeing up around the 14v at the batt once the car has been running a few minutes.

Casati

I tried it again with somebody else starting the car- it was about 12.4 before she started up, and then dropped to about 10.5 during startup and immediately back to about 11.8 while running, certainly never went over 12.
My guess is that the alternator might be working at a v low performance. The belts are tight and sitting on the pulleys fine. The battery is holding the charge overnight too- and its showing green through the little window. Think I need to save up for a new alternator


Thanks a million for all the advise

bryaner

Nissan doctor wrote: »

bryaner wrote: »

There are many alleged "decent mechanics" out there that haven't a clue when it comes to auto electrics..

Then it could be argued that they are not decent mechanics:P

Maybe the more up to date term of technitian is better as modern vehicle technitians need to know every bit as much about computer and electronic systems as nuts and bolts.

That's why I used the term "alleged"

Casati

mickdw wrote: »

Fixed a vectra recently with exactly the same problem. Google put me in the right direction. The car failed without warning, no battery light, no other warning lights. You could charge it overnight but it would be gone again pretty quick, Steering assistance not working and as it ran out of power, wouldnt rev and generally everything went crazy.
Anyway, google told me that the rectifier in the denso alternators as fitted to most of those cars was a weak point and a youtube video told me what to look for on the failed rectifier.
Whipped out the alternator and sure enough, failed as described. New rectifier obtained from a local guy for €25, bolt it in and 3 solders, stick the lot back in the car and all is well since.
Link to tem on ebay that we bought:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OPEL-VECTRA-ASTRA-SAAB-1-9CTDI-DENSO-ALTERNATOR-RECTIFIER-/150839742571?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item231ebfd06b

Youtube guide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHFMhG47VGk

We had no battery warning but fault with rectifier was as demonstrated in video.

This was exactly what was wrong with my alternator, and I managed to get it fixed as shown in the video- though I didn't do it myself, thanks for the advise- it still cost me a few quid but I didn't have to fork out for a complete new alternator

mickdw

Excellent. We got it sorted for 25 quid but yes, there is a bit of work in taking out the alternator etc so if not doing it yourself it will cost.
Still you most likely have a reliable alternator now whereas one from a breakers would have this defect just waiting to happen again.