Does religion give Jesus a bad reputation?

kneemos

It's very exclusive towards women and gays for example,the claim that thier religion is the only true religion or the killings carried out in it's name.I don't know if it's quite what Jesus had in mind.

philologos

Good morning. As for Christianity being the only true religion - Jesus Himself claimed that the only way to know God was through Him.

John 14:6 wrote:

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

If you think about it, that's logical. If other religions contradict the Gospel, then they can't all be true can they?

As for women and homosexuals, I don't know what your point is on either topic.

On killings carried out in the name of Christianity - yes of course this was Biblically wrong. Unfortunately even Christians have screwed up in this regard.

Feel free to come back to me.

For the record, I think in many ways "religion" does give Jesus a bad reputation. The only question I have to ask you is how are you finding out about Jesus? Is it in the Bible or somewhere else?

kneemos

All religions follow the gospel according to thier interpretation.Women and gays not being allowed full membership or practice thier sexuality I thought was clear.

philologos

kneemos wrote: »

All religions follow the gospel according to thier interpretation.Women and gays not being allowed full membership or practice thier sexuality I thought was clear.

You should take a look at the links in my signature. We're reading through Mark's gospel slowly on this forum.

I guess if you believe that every religion proclaims the Gospel, can I ask you what you think the Gospel is?

I'm confused as to what you mean by women not being allowed full membership or practice of sexuality. You're right to say that Christians believe marriage is the correct place for sexual expression.

kneemos

Women priests and gays not being allowed practice sex.Stop being contrary with your questions

getz

philologos wrote: »

Good morning. As for Christianity being the only true religion - Jesus Himself claimed that the only way to know God was through Him.

If you think about it, that's logical. If other religions contradict the Gospel, then they can't all be true can they?

As for women and homosexuals, I don't know what your point is on either topic.

On killings carried out in the name of Christianity - yes of course this was Biblically wrong. Unfortunately even Christians have screwed up in this regard.

Feel free to come back to me.

For the record, I think in many ways "religion" does give Jesus a bad reputation. The only question I have to ask you is how are you finding out about Jesus? Is it in the Bible or somewhere else?

the christian religion of to-day, constantines version,is far different from the way it was practised, in early christianity,so much has been added and corrupted and ignored its hard to link it to the way he wanted people to believe.so its no surprise to me that many are now questioning the doctored new new testament version of jesus,there is a need to go back to his teachings not the roman one,

philologos

getz: that's why Christians rely on the authority of the Bible. See my signature to see that
it isn't the product of Chinese whispers.

kneemos: the reason I ask for clarification is only because I want to give you good answers.

Firstly: not all Christians are against women in clergy. Some are complementarian in gender roles others are not.

Secondly: homosexuals are welcome in churches and should be. Christians do believe that the place for sexual expression is a marriage between a man and a woman. See the megathread for more.

Please come back with your point about other religions and what you think the gospel is.

Zombrex

kneemos wrote: »

.I don't know if it's quite what Jesus had in mind.

Why?

kneemos

So no women priests or gay sex.seriously this is tedious

kneemos

Zombrex wrote: »

Why?

Excluding people is ok?

Zombrex

kneemos wrote: »

Excluding people is ok?

Well Christians will argue that Christianity doesn't exclude anyone, it excludes sinful behavior. But that wasn't my question.

My question was why do you think Jesus wouldn't be ok with this? What are you basing that on? Is there some non-Biblical description of Jesus that paints him in a better light than the Bible?

philologos

kneemos: could you respond to some of the questions that I've asked you. This could be a good discussion, particularly your points on the gospel and other religions.

getz

philologos wrote: »

getz: that's why Christians rely on the authority of the Bible. See my signature to see that
it isn't the product of Chinese whispers.

kneemos: the reason I ask for clarification is only because I want to give you good answers.

Firstly: not all Christians are against women in clergy. Some are complementarian in gender roles others are not.

Secondly: homosexuals are welcome in churches and should be. Christians do believe that the place for sexual expression is a marriage between a man and a woman. See the megathread for more.

Please come back with your point about other religions and what you think the gospel is.

first of all the gospel is about jesus teachings,so it is very important that we look at all the early biblical teachings,not just the church PC version,the now put together codex sinaiticus arguably the oldest writings,is in many ways in conflict with many of the churches beliefs,the other book codex vaticanus that the vatican has is very much restricted, and only certain individuals are allowed to read it,when any scholar is allowed they are watched carefully,if the guard thinks they have looked at a certain passage to long or closely ,they force the scholar to leave the manuscript. when the vatican posted part of the vaticanus on line, some of the texts had been edited or changed, let christians judge or themselves,

kneemos

Zombrex wrote: »

Well Christians will argue that Christianity doesn't exclude anyone, it excludes sinful behavior. But that wasn't my question.

My question was why do you think Jesus wouldn't be ok with this? What are you basing that on? Is there some non-Biblical description of Jesus that paints him in a better light than the Bible?

What religion interprets as sinfull behaviour.How are women,sex or other religions sinful?

antiskeptic

Zombrex wrote: »

Well Christians will argue that Christianity doesn't exclude anyone, it excludes sinful behavior.

It doesn't even exclude that .. since sinful behaviour is ongoing in the Christian.

My question was why do you think Jesus wouldn't be ok with this? What are you basing that on? Is there some non-Biblical description of Jesus that paints him in a better* light than the Bible?

*where 'better' is a relative-to-whatever-you-consider-best term.

kneemos

philologos wrote: »

kneemos: could you respond to some of the questions that I've asked you. This could be a good discussion, particularly your points on the gospel and other religions.

Jesus message is very simple it does'nt need philosophy.

Zombrex

kneemos wrote: »

What religion interprets as sinfull behaviour.

Is that a question?

kneemos wrote: »

How are women,sex or other religions sinful?

Homosexual sex is sinful according to most Christianity interpretations of the Bible based on Paul's condemnation of it. As Phil points out male only priests is a practice is some but not all Christian denominations. Worshipping false gods is most definitely a sin according to practically all of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), it is the first commandment in the Old Testament.

Perhaps now you could answer my question, why do you think Jesus would not agree with this? Are you aware of some Jesus the rest of us are not?

kneemos

In reply to Zombrex if you don't see it I can't explain.

PDN

kneemos wrote: »

In reply to Zombrex if you don't see it I can't explain.

No discussion then.

getz

Zombrex wrote: »

Is that a question?



Homosexual sex is sinful according to most Christianity interpretations of the Bible based on Paul's condemnation of it. As Phil points out male only priests is a practice is some but not all Christian denominations. Worshipping false gods is most definitely a sin according to practically all of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), it is the first commandment in the Old Testament.

Perhaps now you could answer my question, why do you think Jesus would not agree with this? Are you aware of some Jesus the rest of us are not?

so is murder but as we know religion has been at the forefront of some of the worlds most atrocities,as far as woman,did not jesus tell all his disciples to go out and spread the word,[teacher/priest] as was there not three of them woman,including the disciple to the disciples magdalene, jesus did not put woman as inferior to man,so why do a lot of christian churches ?do not answer that i know.

PDN

It's a bit pointless making generalised claims about 'religion'. It's like saying "politicians kill people", without making any distinction between politicians like Hitler or Nelson Mandela. 'Religion' can refer to Al Quaeda, to Martin Luther King, to the Spanish Inquisition or to the Salvation Army.

kneemos

PDN wrote: »

No discussion then.

You seem to be stuck in the rule book rather than the humanitarian side,which is the Jesus I'm talking about.

PDN

kneemos wrote: »

You seem to be stuck in the rule book rather than the humanitarian side,which is the Jesus I'm talking about.

You seem to be making stuff up about people rather than engaging in discussion.

JimiTime

kneemos wrote: »

You seem to be stuck in the rule book rather than the humanitarian side,which is the Jesus I'm talking about.

Maybe you could tell us about Jesus? How did you come to know him, and learn of his ways? What is his message? I'm sure we could share our thoughts on the Jesus we know.

getz

PDN wrote: »

It's a bit pointless making generalised claims about 'religion'. It's like saying "politicians kill people", without making any distinction between politicians like Hitler or Nelson Mandela. 'Religion' can refer to Al Quaeda, to Martin Luther King, to the Spanish Inquisition or to the Salvation Army.

yes but the basic belief of all religions is you should not kill,politicians dont have that problem,so its not pointless

PDN

getz wrote: »

yes but the basic belief of all religions is you should not kill

No it isn't. Some religions have been quite enthusiastic about killing and made it part of their basic beliefs.

kneemos

JimiTime wrote: »

Maybe you could tell us about Jesus? How did you come to know him, and learn of his ways? What is his message? I'm sure we could share our thoughts on the Jesus we know.

Can't tell you much about Jesus,don't claim to know him.The simple message is to love each other and do good.

JimiTime

kneemos wrote: »

Can't tell you much about Jesus,don't claim to know him.The simple message is to love each other and do good.

If you don't know much about him, what makes you believe you know his message? Where did you find out about this simple message that you claim was his?

Onesimus

This is a weird discussion hmmm :D

getz

PDN wrote: »

No it isn't. Some religions have been quite enthusiastic about killing and made it part of their basic beliefs.

if you are thinking of islam,i can assure you nine of the ten commandments are part of their religion,the only one that isent is the sabath,any thing that is written in their religious book about killing is from sayings of prophets,like christianity its a abramamic faith,

Zombrex

kneemos wrote: »

In reply to Zombrex if you don't see it I can't explain.

So you cannot explain your position to people who don't already agree with you.

Well good thing you came to a discussion forum then, isn't it. :rolleyes:

antiskeptic

kneemos wrote: »

The simple message is to love each other and do good...

..or else.

Which opens a whole can of worms for those who have trouble loving each other and doing good. Folk like you and me .. for instance.

PDN

getz wrote: »

if you are thinking of islam,i can assure you nine of the ten commandments are part of their religion,the only one that isent is the sabath,any thing that is written in their religious book about killing is from sayings of prophets,like christianity its a abramamic faith,

I was thinking of the religion of the Aztecs and the worship of Molech actually.

antiskeptic

PDN wrote: »

I was thinking of the religion of the Aztecs and the worship of Molech actually.

Zombrex

getz wrote: »

so is murder but as we know religion has been at the forefront of some of the worlds most atrocities

so is murder what? Something Jesus approved of?

getz wrote: »

as far as woman,did not jesus tell all his disciples to go out and spread the word,[teacher/priest] as was there not three of them woman,including the disciple to the disciples magdalene, jesus did not put woman as inferior to man,so why do a lot of christian churches ?do not answer that i know.

Er ok, I won't answer that since you already know. Again an internet discussion forum might not be the best place for this stuff.

Everyone here has heard of blogs, correct?

Zombrex

kneemos wrote: »

The simple message is to love each other and do good.

According to whom?

The central message of Jesus seems best summed up by the first thing he is recorded preaching “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

getz

PDN wrote: »

I was thinking of the religion of the Aztecs and the worship of Molech actually.

i was thinking of the modern practice of religion,in time gone by even the early main religions practiced human sacrifice,and i believe there are a few shady gods in the hindu religions