I have a problem (Soccer Forum related)

Samich

From a business perspective it is not the smart move at all and I dunno how you can't see that, it is possible you just like to take the opposite side to whatever the majority here may think of course?

A poster makes this comment in the SF in reply to me. I have previously been accused of trolling. I report this post and nothing has been done. The poster in question actually tried to edit his post to remove the last part because he knows what he's done but I catch him in time.

My list has grown by one member tonight, almost up to ten! Wahey!

Same poster a short while later. He is on about his ignore list here. I report the post, nothing is done. 2 posts in a short spell of time (not even a few hours) and nothing is done. Why?

Here is the charter.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73160788&postcount=4

Policy on Back-Seat Modding

If you believe a post is in breach of the charter then you should report it, and move on. If you engage the poster on his/her breach of the charter you risk infraction for back-seat modding.

-Examples of back-seat modding include:
-Calling someone a troll
-Telling a poster not to post in a thread, or they should post elsewhere
-Telling a poster you have reported their post (effectively accusing them of a breach of the charter)
-Commenting on a breach of charter
-Informing a user that you have/will be putting them on your ignore list.
-Advising others to do the same.

This list is not exhaustive, and mod discretion may be applied in cases where the intent is judged to be helpful (for example, telling another user they should use spoiler tags for score updates, and showing them how to do so).

The rule of thumb should always be to leave moderation to the mods.

Xavi6

People who actually post that they've put someone on their ignore list are idiots imo, and that's before even getting to the merit of lists themselves.

Samich

Xavi6 wrote: »

People who actually post that they've put someone on their ignore list are idiots imo, and that's before even getting to the merit of lists themselves.

Yeah it happens a lot in the Man Utd forum. The poster in my OP hasn't come out and said it straight, but everyone knows what he means. I've put people on ignore but never said it in a thread. Basically trying to say "You're a retard"

MugMugs

Would you not just PM the SF Mods to discuss?

Samich

Antares wrote: »

Would you not just PM the SF Mods to discuss?

Because it happens too often. This should be preserved for my complaints. I have another coming up! It's a joke.

Red Crow

You have often told people you reported them and here is another example here:

Samich wrote: »

Reported.

Why not highlight it to a mod? You seem to be Spirit of the Seventies part II.

Samich

Eli Manning wrote: »

You have often told people you reported them and here is another example here:



Why not highlight it to a mod? You seem to be Spirit of the Seventies part II.

Yeah, I should have gotten a yellow. Thanks for strengthening my argument

Also I got a yellow for something before and got this note with the yellow.

You've questioned red cards, bannings and such on thread a few times. Please take it to feedback if you have a problem with the moderation and subsequent actions.

So here I am.

Samich

Same poster again in the Man Utd thread

How the interview go?

Other poster replies back with his answer.

Off topic posting.

Antares

Antares wrote: »

Would you not just PM the SF Mods to discuss?

Just on this, I've sent them all PM's before but got no replies. I now only look at the one thread (my teams megathread) on the soccer forum because the rest of it is just too much trouble to deal with.

Edited to add: Oh, and Samich, I think you may be takin the p*** a little saying that asking someone how'd the interview go is OT. It's a community forum after all

Samich

Deleted User wrote: »

Just on this, I've sent them all PM's before but got no replies. I now only look at the one thread (my teams megathread) on the soccer forum because the rest of it is just too much trouble to deal with.

A few months ago I did this aswell and got no replies. But they've gotten new mods since. The posts I've reported that have broken the charter haven't been carded yet. (I'll go look now)

Tombi!

Samich wrote: »

A few months ago I did this aswell and got no replies. But they've gotten new mods since. The posts I've reported that have broken the charter haven't been carded yet. (I'll go look now)

PM them and ask why it's allowed (CIVILLY). Honestly they probably didn't think twice about it but it might have been context they were missing or what have you.

Plus you learn why it's allowed if it is allowed, so win win

Logical_Bear

Samich wrote: »

Off topic posting.

as you were in this thread..http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056709841

pot meet kettle.

Possibly the mod's in the soccer forum might have you on ignore?

Samich

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

PM them and ask why it's allowed (CIVILLY). Honestly they probably didn't think twice about it but it might have been context they were missing or what have you.

Plus you learn why it's allowed if it is allowed, so win win

Thing is, if I do it I'd get a card because I'm seen as a troll by all the die hards in the thread. i.e all the die hards would report my post.

Schism

Samich wrote: »

Same poster again in the Man Utd thread



Other poster replies back with his answer.

Off topic posting.

Ah now in all fairness that's pretty harmless stuff. If anything it helps break up the fairly heated debate going on.

If you're reporting something like that it looks like you're just waiting for a reason to report people.

Tombi!

Samich wrote: »

Thing is, if I do it I'd get a card because I'm seen as a troll by all the die hards in the thread. i.e all the die hards would report my post.

You won't get a card for PMing a mod unless you're abusive?

Samich

Schism wrote: »

Ah now in all fairness that's pretty harmless stuff. If anything it helps break up the fairly heated debate going on.

If you're reporting something like that it looks like you're just waiting for a reason to report people.

Breaking the charter is breaking the charter. Same rules for everybody.

Pro. F

Schism wrote: »

Ah now in all fairness that's pretty harmless stuff. If anything it helps break up the fairly heated debate going on.

If you're reporting something like that it looks like you're just waiting for a reason to report people.

I agree.

The team super threads on the SF are gigantic mish-mashes of intertwining conversations. The little bit of off topic posting that goes on in them is nearly always a good thing (for relieving tensions, building community, etc.) and the mods usually let it flow. What Samich is complaining about there is clearly a non-issue.

Samich

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree.

The team super threads on the SF are gigantic mish-mashes of intertwining conversations. The little bit of off topic posting that goes on in them is nearly always a good thing (for relieving tensions, building community, etc.) and the mods usually let it flow. What Samich is complaining about there is clearly a non-issue.

Why not let the mods decide?

The charter is the charter.

Blatter

Samich wrote: »

Why not let the mods decide?

The charter is the charter.

I think you missed this part of the charter:

The moderators will not only be looking at the word of the charter when reviewing posts but at the spirit in which a post or a number of posts are made.

Samich

Blatter wrote: »

I think you missed this part of the charter:

Backseat modding is breaking the charter no matter how you look at it. I actually got a yellow for it a few mins ago and the other posts are still left there :rolleyes:

G.K.

Be aware that we aren't just sitting about doing nothing. Clearly there is an issue and we as a mod team are actively discussing it at the moment.

Samich

G.K. wrote: »

Be aware that we aren't just sitting about doing nothing. Clearly there is an issue and we as a mod team are actively discussing it at the moment.

Ok thanks.

Blatter

Samich wrote: »

Backseat modding is breaking the charter no matter how you look at it. I actually got a yellow for it a few mins ago and the other posts are still left there :rolleyes:

I was talking about the OT posts you were that whining about.

OT posts would typically be infracted if they a) had the potential to drag the thread wildly off topic and/or b) were posted with the intention to rile people.

And that's the way it should be, IMO it would be ridiculous to start handing out infractions for the harmless OT posts that you were crying over.

Samich

Blatter wrote: »

I was talking about the OT posts you were that whining about.

OT posts would typically be infracted if they a) had the potential to drag the thread wildly off topic and/or b) were posted with the intention to rile people.

And that's the way it should be, IMO it would be ridiculous to start handing out infractions for the harmless OT posts that you were crying over.

Off topic is off topic, there's no distinction in the charter. How is anyone supposed to stay within the boundaries of the charter if it's open to interpretation like you seem to think it is.

Blatter

Samich wrote: »

Off topic is off topic, there's no distinction in the charter. How is anyone supposed to stay within the boundaries of the charter if it's open to interpretation like you seem to think it is.

By not acting like a dick, fairly simple tbh.

Samich

Blatter wrote: »

By not acting like a dick, fairly simple tbh.

Ha, but it's still ok to break the charter?

Pro. F

Samich wrote: »

Why not let the mods decide?

The charter is the charter.

Because this is a feedback thread.

You do come out with some gems sometimes.

Mikeyt086

Samich, first of all I just want to say that I am here to offer advice, not to have a go, you can take it or leave it, of course thats up to you.

I dont see why you refer to others in the thread as "the regulars" or "the die-hards" when you yourself have 210 posts in the thread, only Kryogen has more (lets be honest, he's a regular die-hard). You seem to have a paranoia that everyone is out to get you, let me assure you that that only happens when you get into those big "tail-spin/reply to everything" discussions.

I said a few days ago that was enjoying your posts, as that day you were on-point and making sense, but it's almost like a different poster when someone disagrees with you, you get snappy and start digging a hole, and THEN everyone chimes in with their opinion on you/your views as it seems as though you HAVE to reply to each and every one like its a personal attack on you, and this is when the thread gets terrible for around 10 pages, we have seen it 4 times in the last week.

I don't have a problem with you, I take every post at face value, but it seems to me that everything will be fine if you just tone down the volume of your posts and think the rest of them out. I know you've got decent things to say, I've seen them. But when you reply to everyone is when you come out with posts like the one where you complained about the Job interview, come on man, off-topic? Yes, but it's a big deal to a regular poster so it's common courtesy to engage him, like when I get humoured over my sigs. That was a bit of a dick move and the other posters didn't take to it. It would have been so much easier to just let it go.

You might think that I have no business in here or whatever but really I'm just calling it as I see it, I'm offering you advice which by no means do you have to take, basically I just wanted to add my 2 cents as to what would make the thread go smoother.

Samich

Of course I'm going to reply to each and every post that's aimed at me, why wouldn't I?

Yes I'm 2nd highest poster, that doesn't make a difference.

It's one rule for one, another for the rest. A mod told me he looked at the posts I reported and seen nothing wrong with them..

Time to change the charter then.

SlickRic

Samich, at some point you also need to look at your own posting style, rather than just criticising everyone else, including mods.

yes, on a very literal level, there is an argument for many of the posts you've highlighted to maybe be actioned against. but only a Nazi would want some of those posts actioned against, as they're not doing anything to disrupt the forum. while the charter is important - when it comes to backseat modding or trolling, it really has to be up to the discretion of the mods. as PHB explained in the Utd thread - perceived intent is taken into account. Paul Tergat being asked about his job interview is off-topic, but it's fine, because it's in-keeping with a friendly spirit that is good for the running of the forum; therefore you'd have to be ridiculous to want to punish it. if it got wildly out of hand, yes, maybe, but it wasn't even close to that.

you seem to be on a one man mission make the Utd forum a battleground. you're not going to win that war. people are engaging with you, largely in a friendly manner, but you have this habit of sniping and trying to pick fights when you don't need to.

try to get along, rather than picking fights, and your opinions will be taken on board a lot better.

my 2 cents. i'm really not trying to get at you; just tell you plainly what my advice would be. take it, or you can completely ignore it. it's up to you.

Samich

SlickRic wrote: »

Samich, at some point you also need to look at your own posting style, rather than just criticising everyone else, including mods.

yes, on a very literal level, there is an argument for many of the posts you've highlighted to maybe be actioned against. but only a Nazi would want some of those posts actioned against, as they're not doing anything to disrupt the forum. while the charter is important - when it comes to backseat modding or trolling, it really has to be up to the discretion of the mods. as PHB explained in the Utd thread - perceived intent is taken into account. Paul Tergat being asked about his job interview is off-topic, but it's fine, because it's in-keeping with a friendly spirit that is good for the running of the forum; therefore you'd have to be ridiculous to want to punish it. if it got wildly out of hand, yes, maybe, but it wasn't even close to that.

you seem to be on a one man mission make the Utd forum a battleground. you're not going to win that war. people are engaging with you, largely in a friendly manner, but you have this habit of sniping and trying to pick fights when you don't need to.

try to get along, rather than picking fights, and your opinions will be taken on board a lot better.

my 2 cents. i'm really not trying to get at you; just tell you plainly what my advice would be. take it, or you can completely ignore it. it's up to you.

Well well well, people are engaging with me in a largely friendly manner. I got figures for a transfer from wikipedia once and a poster layed into me for using wikipedia as a source.

Also been told many times I'm talking BS, idiotic, retarded etc.

Why didn't the poster interview the other person about the job interview?

Insect Overlord

Samich wrote: »

I got figures for a transfer from wikipedia once and a poster layed into me for using wikipedia as a source.

Once. The plural of anecdote is not "data"...

Samich

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Once. The plural of anecdote is not "data"...

Read the rest of the post. It continues. Still waiting on a mod to come back, they've been "discussing" it now for long enough.

The charter was broken, now mod has said why the posts were allowed.

SlickRic

Samich wrote: »

Well well well, people are engaging with me in a largely friendly manner. I got figures for a transfer from wikipedia once and a poster layed into me for using wikipedia as a source.

laid into you? really?

Also been told many times I'm talking BS, idiotic, retarded etc.

people are allowed to say what they like about your opinion. as long as they don't call you a retard, moron etc.

Why didn't the poster interview the other person about the job interview?

why are you so against people getting along?

also, i've seen you many times try to clarify, on thread, if someone is calling you a troll. what the fúck is that? are you trying to "catch people out". are you trying to get people banned? because i'd suggest that is another reason why you haven't been getting on great with people.

it's not always everyone else. sometimes you have to think to yourself that it might be something to do with what you're doing.

put some effort into getting on with people on the forum. if you spent as much energy doing that as you do trying to get people infracted or banned, you'd probably not have this problem.

Samich

SlickRic wrote: »

laid into you? really?



people are allowed to say what they like about your opinion. as long as they don't call you a retard, moron etc.



why are you so against people getting along?

also, i've seen you many times try to clarify, on thread, if someone is calling you a troll. what the fúck is that? are you trying to "catch people out". are you trying to get people banned? because i'd suggest that is another reason why you haven't been getting on great with people.

it's not always everyone else. sometimes you have to think to yourself that it might be something to do with what you're doing.

put some effort into getting on with people on the forum. if you spent as much energy doing that as you do trying to get people infracted or banned, you'd probably not have this problem.

Yes, laid into.

My problem is you posting excrement in this thread, citing wikipedia as a source when trying to establish the fee paid. Jimmy explained to you why that is utterly stupid, although it really shouldn't need explaining.

You may think it is a bit of fun and not important, but everybody else either has to waste their time reading your bullshìt or has to put you on ignore which makes threads confusing. It would be nice if you would take the slightest bit of intellectual responsibility for what you write and at least try to not act like a retard when you're posting in here. It would be the sound thing for you to do, just to show respect to everybody else who shares this thread and forum with you.

Cool, actually knocked both points out there with the one stone

Samich

Oh and I'm allowed say what I like about anyones opinion.

Mikeyt086

Samich wrote: »

Of course I'm going to reply to each and every post that's aimed at me, why wouldn't I?

Because sometimes you could just let it go. Often I've seen you miss a reply if you were away or whatever, and in the meantime the discussion has fizzled out, only for you to see it and reply and resurrect an argument. The Carrick incident is a prime example of this, that thing could have been ended several times earlier than it did.

Samich wrote:

Yes I'm 2nd highest poster, that doesn't make a difference.

Well I personally feel if it was 110 posts instead of 210, you would have no issues. Sometimes you get upset by someone's response and it effects your judgement, which can lead to others being drawn in even if your original post was fine.

Myself and SlicRic are only offering advice, trying to poke holes in our suggestions only enhances the idea that you struggle to acknowledge any fault in your own posting style. The feedback thread is for feedback after all.

Samich

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Because sometimes you could just let it go. Often I've seen you miss a reply if you were away or whatever, and in the meantime the discussion has fizzled out, only for you to see it and reply and resurrect an argument. The Carrick incident is a prime example of this, that thing could have been ended several times earlier than it did.



Well I personally feel if it was 110 posts instead of 210, you would have no issues. Sometimes you get upset by someone's response and it effects your judgement, which can lead to others being drawn in even if your original post was fine.

Myself and SlicRic are only offering advice, trying to poke holes in our suggestions only enhances the idea that you struggle to acknowledge any fault in your own posting style. The feedback thread is for feedback after all.

I'm allowed respond to every post that is aimed at me, there's nothing wrong with this at all.

No one is actually responding to the main points I've made in this thread so far.

oscarBravo

Samich wrote: »

No one is actually responding to the main points I've made in this thread so far.

I'll respond, as an admin with no interest in Soccer.

It seems to me that you're looking for the charter to be applied to the absolute letter, with zero discretion on the part of the moderators under any circumstances whatsoever. If that's what you're asking for - and you're not the first to do so - it's not going to happen.

If, on the other hand, you recognise that the moderators need to be able to exercise their personal judgement in moderating one of the busiest forums on the site, then I'm not clear what it is you're asking for.

SlickRic

yep, it's all everyone else's fault. not an ounce of blame is yours. you are right, everyone else is wrong.

you picking fights endlessly is not going to allow this to end well, for you. as long as you're on this crusade, you're never going to enjoy the boards experience and you're making it a chore for many others.

you know these rules you're so keen for the mods to enforce?

there's also a "don't be a díck" rule that you should be aware of.

and by the way, if mods were to enforce all these rules like the Nazi you want them to seemingly, there'd be barely anyone left on the forum, including you.

you, a fair few times, have accused people, on thread, of calling you a troll, as well as telling people on thread when a post has been reported, as well as commenting on posts that you deem off-topic. did the mods infract you for all of them?

no, i didn't think so.

look at yourself a bit.

Samich

SlickRic wrote: »

yep, it's all everyone else's fault. not an ounce of blame is yours. you are right, everyone else is wrong.

you picking fights endlessly is not going to allow this to end well, for you. as long as you're on this crusade, you're never going to enjoy the boards experience and you're making it a chore for many others.

you know these rules you're so keen for the mods to enforce?

there's also a "don't be a díck" rule that you should be aware of.

and by the way, if mods were to enforce all these rules like the Nazi you want them to seemingly, there'd be barely anyone left on the forum, including you.

you, a fair few times, have accused people, on thread, of calling you a troll, as well as telling people when a post has been reported, as well as commenting on posts that you deem off-topic. did the mods infract you for all of them?

no, i didn't think so.

look at yourself a bit.

Still got more infractions then the others. :rolleyes:

Samich

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'll respond, as an admin with no interest in Soccer.

It seems to me that you're looking for the charter to be applied to the absolute letter, with zero discretion on the part of the moderators under any circumstances whatsoever. If that's what you're asking for - and you're not the first to do so - it's not going to happen.

If, on the other hand, you recognise that the moderators need to be able to exercise their personal judgement in moderating one of the busiest forums on the site, then I'm not clear what it is you're asking for.

Exercise their judgement? Basically you're saying, let the popular posters off with anything they like, sure they're grand.

I was under the impression soccer was one of the strictest fora on boards.

Still haven't answered the questions. Why did the 2 posts in the original thread go unpunished? I got a yellow for backseat modding this evening. No doubt my posts were reported by others in the thread.

oscarBravo

Samich wrote: »

Exercise their judgement? Basically you're saying, let the popular posters off with anything they like, sure they're grand.

Once again, you're making it clear that you don't want moderators to be able to exercise judgement, and once again I'm going to reply that that's not going to happen. I won't be repeating that much more often.

I was under the impression soccer was one of the strictest fora on boards.

I was under the same impression.

Still haven't answered the questions. Why did the 2 posts in the original thread go unpunished?

Presumably because the moderators used the discretion you don't want them to be allowed to use and decided not to punish them.

I got a yellow for backseat modding this evening.

Presumably because the moderators used their discretion and decided that your post warranted punishment.

If you want to make this a conversation about something other than denying moderators the right to exercise discretion in moderating, please do so. If you're going to continue on that track, the conversation won't be lasting much longer.

Samich

oscarBravo wrote: »

Once again, you're making it clear that you don't want moderators to be able to exercise judgement, and once again I'm going to reply that that's not going to happen. I won't be repeating that much more often. I was under the same impression. Presumably because the moderators used the discretion you don't want them to be allowed to use and decided not to punish them. Presumably because the moderators used their discretion and decided that your post warranted punishment.

If you want to make this a conversation about something other than denying moderators the right to exercise discretion in moderating, please do so. If you're going to continue on that track, the conversation won't be lasting much longer.

Ha, refusing feedback now? In the feedback thread of all places. You're refusing to see, posters tend to gang up on other posters when they go against the popular opinion.

Strict - characterized by or acting in close conformity to requirements or principles

Are you now saying it's not strict?

Are you now saying I can tell people I'm putting them on ignore?

oscarBravo

Samich wrote: »

Ha, refusing feedback now?

No, I'm telling you (for the third time now) that we're not going to be re-writing a sitewide policy to suit your particular desires.

You're refusing to see, posters tend to gang up on other posters when they go against the popular opinion.

You haven't really made the thread about that, though. If you want to make the thread about that, rather than demanding that moderation be carried out in a manner that suits you, then let's do so.

Are you now saying it's not strict?

No, I'm not saying that. You can tell that I'm not saying that by the fact that I didn't say that. Don't read between the lines; I didn't write between them.

Are you now saying I can tell people I'm putting them on ignore?

That's something else I very specifically didn't say.

I won't be responding any further before the morning, so have a think before you reply again. If you genuinely feel that there's an issue with the moderation of the Soccer forum that is to the detriment of the forum generally rather than something that pisses you personally off, say so and we'll have a conversation about it. If, on the other hand, you come back with an argumentative post similar to your last one, I'll stop entertaining the discussion.

Samich

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, I'm telling you (for the third time now) that we're not going to be re-writing a sitewide policy to suit your particular desires. You haven't really made the thread about that, though. If you want to make the thread about that, rather than demanding that moderation be carried out in a manner that suits you, then let's do so. No, I'm not saying that. You can tell that I'm not saying that by the fact that I didn't say that. Don't read between the lines; I didn't write between them. That's something else I very specifically didn't say.

I won't be responding any further before the morning, so have a think before you reply again. If you genuinely feel that there's an issue with the moderation of the Soccer forum that is to the detriment of the forum generally rather than something that pisses you personally off, say so and we'll have a conversation about it. If, on the other hand, you come back with an argumentative post similar to your last one, I'll stop entertaining the discussion.

Where was the argumentative post?

You agreed the forum was one of the strictest on boards but then say it's down to mods judgement, that's not a strict forum.

I've told the soccer mods to come to this thread yet there have been no replies (apart from one saying they're discussing it).

Paul Tergat

If the mods were as strict as you want them to be there would be no forum. Nobody would want to be a member where the tiniest little off topic comment is given a yellow, all posters would be banned.

Regarding the actual comment I made last night, I was just letting people know why I wouldnt be commenting further the IPO. I feel a few of the lads sorta know me on the forum and kindly asked how I got on. Thats really all it was and as others have said it can nicely break up a thread and fosters a good environment for discussion

I don't think you are a bad poster at all but I reckon that you are maybe seeing arguments that arent really there in the first place.

Just my 2c any Samich

Samich

Paul Tergat wrote: »

If the mods were as strict as you want them to be there would be no forum. Nobody would want to be a member where the tiniest little off topic comment is given a yellow, all posters would be banned.

Regarding the actual comment I made last night, I was just letting people know why I wouldnt be commenting further the IPO. I feel a few of the lads sorta know me on the forum and kindly asked how I got on. Thats really all it was and as others have said it can nicely break up a thread and fosters a good environment for discussion

I don't think you are a bad poster at all but I reckon that you are maybe seeing arguments that arent really there in the first place.

Just my 2c any Samich

Ok forget that part then of my posts.

The first 2 still stand though. I'm all for the little guy, someone with 100 posts comes in and says they're putting someone on ignore, they'll get a yellow card and will be referred to the charter. I got a yellow for calling someone a troll before. Fair enough it was a yellow, but when someone does it and it's allowed, it's not fair.

PeterStrauss The Second

All this hassle over a previously site banned troll.

Ironic that mink_man is upset for being labelled a troll tbh.

Mikeyt086

PeterStrauss The Second wrote: »

All this hassle over a previously site banned troll.

Ironic that mink_man is upset for being labelled a troll tbh.

SlickRic

SOTS tbh.

by the way Samich, you're doing everything you can to avoid your own indiscretions.

if you want the mods to be that strict, then you'll have to accept a banning yourself for your "off-topic posting" and "back seat modding".

the forum would die though.

posting "i've still got more infractions than others" really is quite a thin argument IMO. and how would you know? i saw Pro F was infractioned earlier for instance. the mods are largely very fair.

you don't know all the infractions that the soccer mods have handed out unless you've got a super sad amount of time on your hands.

you're just sore because you feel picked on, because you've rubbed people up the wrong way in the Utd thread.