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San Francisco 49ers Discussion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,687 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    adrian522 wrote: »
    I'm not sure they are throwing up smokescreens they just haven't said or leaked who they are taking. I hope it's Justin Fields I think he's the best prospect of the 3, I'd understand Lance but think he has the most bust potential (though maybe also the highest ceiling). Really hope they haven't given up all those picks for Jones.

    So fields, Lance, and Jones in that order then Adrian ? Well they’ve gone big for a reason and what I’ve seen and read about Lance, as you say he has the higher ceiling but he wasn’t exactly running a throw heavy offence last season but the overall system was a pro system.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    So fields, Lance, and Jones in that order then Adrian ? Well they’ve gone big for a reason and what I’ve seen and read about Lance, as you say he has the higher ceiling but he wasn’t exactly running a throw heavy offence last season but the overall system was a pro system.

    Yeah, that would be my order of preference. One thing Lance does have going for him is that he has played under center a good deal more than the other QB's:

    https://twitter.com/LombardiHimself/status/1385315905912020992


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522




  • Registered Users Posts: 37,687 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    adrian522 wrote: »

    I was listening to a podcast from yesterday and the draft guy they had on said similar things to Mike silver but he added that some of the coaching staff apparently don’t know who the pick is of yesterday. That policy of tipping picks must be a post Mike mayock one.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522


    The trade just makes no sense of they select Mac Jones.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,687 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    adrian522 wrote: »
    The trade just makes no sense of they select Mac Jones.

    Well we shall see Adrian. The latest nfl total access mock draft have the niners taking Mac Jones at no 3. Hopefully the eagles can make a good decision at 12.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Well we shall see Adrian. The latest nfl total access mock draft have the niners taking Mac Jones at no 3. Hopefully the eagles can make a good decision at 12.

    They could have traded with the eagles to move to 6 to guarantee the opportunity to select Mac Jones and that would have cost one future first round pick.

    If they select Mac Jones at 3 John Lynch should be on a very short leash. If San Francisco doesn't select Jones he will fall at least to 6 and probably out of the top 10.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,687 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    adrian522 wrote: »
    They could have traded with the eagles to move to 6 to guarantee the opportunity to select Mac Jones and that would have cost one future first round pick.

    If they select Mac Jones at 3 John Lynch should be on a very short leash. If San Francisco doesn't select Jones he will fall at least to 6 and probably out of the top 10.

    I just read a post from nbc sports Philadelphia where there seems to be talk about the eagles not ruling out moving back up to stop a CC lamb situation happening against and that they’d likely move up for Pitts or a QB which I’m sure Jalen hurts will love to hear. My point is if the eagles had stayed at 6 they’d have not had that worry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    This last month since the trade has felt like a full seven month offseason - going from initial excitement to weeks of dread that they could be making a huge mistake, that could eventually mean we lose Kyle. I am so happy that we are nearly done and this will hopefully be my last rant before Thursday.

    My overall QB rankings go Lawrence >> Fields > Wilson >>> Lance >> Jones.

    I have Wilson and Fields very close but Wilson scares me due to his injury history, frame, and lack of playing under any real pressure.

    I think any of the 5 will succeed with the 49ers and whoever they draft should be favourite to win rookie of the year, presuming Jimmy is traded prior to the season. Though each have their flaws I am happy for the 49ers to take any of the first four having giving up the capital to make the trade... and then we have McCorkle Jones.

    Trading and taking Jones is like getting your wages for the month along with an advance of the next 2 months and betting it all on a 1/100 favourite in a three horse race - you're risking a lot for a small potential win, Jones' ceiling is lower than the ceiling of every other QB in the NFC West. Now this might still make sense if it was nearly unanimous from all experts that this horse is the best of the 3, however in this situation it is the opposite - practically every expert says Jones is the worst option. Not only are you gambling a huge amount for a low ceiling of returns - you're also betting that you are smarter than practically every other evaluator out there.

    There are few arguments that are trotted out for Jones that I just don't see. That he is the:
    • Best scheme fit - though Kyle can adjust his scheme to his QB, Jones hasn't shown key elements of what he has used historically - he barely took any snaps under center, rarely used boot action, and throwing on the run was a tiny part of their game. Wilson, Fields, and Lance all did more things that align to staples of Kyle's scheme.
    • Safest pick - we've seen over and over again in recent seasons how less mobile QB rookies struggle compared to those that move outside the pocket, especially when they don't have a top tier arm nor the ability to perform outside of structure. He also has the most red flags out of the QB group from trouble with the law (at least one DUI), bad physical shape, personality issues, inability to beat out a player who has hardly set the NFL on fire, social media issues, and inexperience (has as many games as Lance, who has been consistently dinged for this despite being 3 years older when he earned most of his starts).
    • Most pro ready - it is easy to look the most pro ready when you're in the perfect situation in Alabama - your feet look good and you can go through progressions when your OL is 9 out of 10 times going to each do everything perfectly to protect you, you can throw with anticipation when you have multiple 1st rounds WRs and a 1st round RB who nearly always win their 1 on 1s, you can have ridiculously high competition stats when the OC is scheming these talented players open and giving you a huge number of dump offs/screens. When Jones was taken away from all of this at the Senior Bowl (like he will be in the NFL), he struggled all week and in no way looked like a guy who should go at 3. When people say the most pro ready it seems like they really mean that he is the closest to his ceiling and this is what he'll be as a pro.

    Jones also flies in the face of what Kyle has claimed over the last few years. He said they looked at Stafford, Watson, hoped Josh Allen would come out in 2017, and had Russell Wilson on their board before Cousins. Just 3 weeks ago Kyle called it 'ridiculous' that Cousins is his prototype QB - the guy that most see as the best case future for Jones. Kyle said what he wants is a guy that can do those type of things but is also physically gifted and can run. Kyle has also shown that he is constantly learning on defense and implementing elements to their game of what has caused him problems as an OC. When you flip this around, what has killed the 49ers defense more than anything is guys that can make plays off script and move - like Wilson and Murray twice a year and then the likes of Allen, Mahomes, Jackson. The QBs his defense has had the most success against are those who are more limited when it comes to movement - like Goff.

    Having said all that, I have pretty much come to terms that it is pretty likely that Jones is the pick. Media noise has now started to give more specifics of elements that Kyle likes (e.g., Sliver and footwork) rather than just generic 'is like Cousins reasons'. If Jones is the pick I expect more of this to come out this week to try to get fans and media more onside with the pick 'making sense'. This move also fits Kyle's history of moving up for guys that he didn't need to and they have nearly all turned out badly (Foster, Williams, Pettis, Beathard). If Jones isn't picked at 3, it wouldn't be surprising if falls out of the top 10 - I don't see that for any of the other QBs. The final element that came into play in the last week that concerns me is Field's diagnosis of epilepsy - if Fields is taken off their board then I can understand there are enough issues, like accuracy, for Lance that could make a case for (though my order of preference would be take Lance or have never made the trade and potentially stick with Jimmy for the year if a QB wasn't on the board).

    If Jones is the pick then I'll obviously be supporting him but they better be sure he has the thickest skin and can handle pressure the pressure that is coming. I can't remember any pick this far in advance of a draft that was so widely hated by a fan base and local media - sure fans have been annoyed on draft night but this has been a consistent month of toxic bile and many don't even believe it is possible so worse is to come. The guy is probably the most hated QB in 49ers history and that is even before Goodell calls his name. Kyle and Lynch will have also in one swoop turned a massive element of the fanbase against them and I don't think there is an easy way back aside from a Super Bowl or Jones significantly outperforming both Fields and Lance.

    TL;DR Jones is a good QB prospect that would have some success as a 49er, I don't want it to be Jones at 3, it shouldn't be Jones at 3, it might be Jones at 3, god help Jones if he is picked at 3.

    Thank god this is nearly over :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭ letowski


    I sort of see the speculation surrounding the 49ers pick as just that, pure speculation. The GM and heads of the scouting departments don't just go around telling everybody in the building who they are going to pick.

    Like Ian Rapoport has a tweet out last night saying the '49ers are close in on their decision' ... like I'm sorry, the 49ers knew a month ago who exactly their Top 3 players were before trading for the 3rd overall pick. Like Jesus, does Ian honestly think Lynch is still trying to figure who to take 4 days for the draft, after trading all that capital.

    I know from following the Colts, with the Buckner trade, that was a very tight lipped trade that took both franchises by surprise. There are only a very small select few at the top of the 49ers organisation know what's going to happen on Thursday. And these guys take their jobs very seriously and don't go around chit-chatting in the hallway of who they are taking.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522


    Rappaport and King both reporting that SF will select either Lance or Jones at number 3 overall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭ myate


    letowski wrote: »
    There are only a very small select few at the top of the 49ers organisation know what's going to happen on Thursday. And these guys take their jobs very seriously and don't go around chit-chatting in the hallway of who they are taking.


    They're called Lynch & Shanahan! Nobody else in that building knows. Jed might, but even that he's been hands off for a good few years now, thankfully! And this pick is all Shanahan's. If it goes the way of the pear (please god no) it could cost Lynch his job as Shanahan is way more valuable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭ myate


    Kyle & John presser just now. Not much in it really except the very last answer from kyle...something along the lines he’d like a Drew Brees that can run like Lamar!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    The most interesting thing from the press conference was the tone - especially from Kyle. I have rarely seen him sound so frustrated. We can only guess what that means and confirmation bias could back up the opinion you already had - either he was annoyed because no one likes Jones and that is going to be his pick or annoyed that people think he is stupid enough to take Jones.

    Biggest take away is that they believe it is a competitive advantage for them not to leak the pick in advance of Thursday. If true then everything we're hearing has been rumour and potentially smokescreens.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522


    Sounded very much like he was planning to take Jones and he was preparing the fan base for that pick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Sounded very much like he was planning to take Jones and he was preparing the fan base for that pick.

    I can definitely see that perspective but if there wasn't so much media hype that the pick is going to be Jones I don't think that press conference would tip Jones is the pick - especially not comments like 'You want to find Drew Brees who can move like Lamar Jackson', which is obviously not the player Jones is.

    A press conference that was prepping a fan base for that pick would have gone into details on how important a pocket passer is etc. Kyle's comments about different ways QBs can win and that they'll do what is best for the team are so generic that they could be said for whatever QB narrative was being pushed by the media. Closest thing I saw as a tip towards Jones is Lynch basically stating this is Kyle's choice, somewhat protecting himself for Thursday night.

    Their goal has been to keep everyone guessing and have succeeded to everyone's frustration, as even the media guys who have pushed Jones for weeks keep throwing in caveats so are far from certain (just look at the betting market at 3 compared to pick 2).


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522


    Schefter has been all over the map on this one.

    https://twitter.com/GetUpESPN/status/1387404020864671748?s=19


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,020 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl


    I can tell you over the weekend they did not know who they were going to take.

    I do not, for a second, believe that.

    They just won't tell him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Schefter has been all over the map on this one.

    https://twitter.com/GetUpESPN/status/1387404020864671748?s=19

    Impressive backpedaling and hedging there.

    If the pick isn't Jones there should be humble pie eating from a lot of the media. Some of them have been insufferable regarding fans questioning the vague support for the near certainty they portrayed for the last few weeks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,687 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    Not a hope the niners didn’t know at all who they’ll take as of the weekend just gone. They may have more than one option and haven’t decided fully but even as a non niners fans you’d hope the team isn’t that of a mess.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭ myate


    Right now depending on which former GM or executive you believe, it's certain to be Jones or Lance or Fields!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,687 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    myate wrote: »
    Right now depending on which former GM or executive you believe, it's certain to be Jones or Lance or Fields!!

    Well it’s going to be one of the three. Look we will just have to see what happens. It’s all we can do but whether by accident or design the niners have created an interest in this years draft.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Well it’s going to be one of the three. Look we will just have to see what happens. It’s all we can do but whether by accident or design the niners have created an interest in this years draft.

    The confusion was by design - they've repeatedly said they don't want people knowing the pick beforehand, apparently even today the coordinators don't know. Kyle's 'Maybe, probably, but maybe not' from the press conference.

    The real question is how much of the media commentary has been purposeful smokescreens or testing for internal leaks. The fact that within a few minutes of the trade all the insiders came out of nowhere that it was for Jones just stinks to me (as someone who unfortunately believes it is McCorkle based on the continued hammering from the media since).


  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭ myate


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Well it’s going to be one of the three. Look we will just have to see what happens. It’s all we can do but whether by accident or design the niners have created an interest in this years draft.


    Not necessarily...it is the Jets picking at 2 after all!


  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭ myate


    Ian Rappaport reporting the Niners called the Packers on Tuesday! As I said a while ago, that would be my preference today but not going to happen!


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522


    Trey Lace is now the favourite to go at number 3 !


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Trey Lace is now the favourite to go at number 3 !

    Rumours of it going from Jones to Lance to Rodgers today is going to make it hurt again if it ends up being Jones.

    I thought I'd buried my hopes but they've come back again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    Jed now out there sending joke tweets (or he is drunk at 2:30pm). Hope to god he has read the room before messing around and is only doing so because he knows the fans will be happy with whatever happens

    https://twitter.com/JedYork/status/1387876984324169733?s=20


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭ adrian522




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭ Foxtrol


    adrian522 wrote: »

    A man who is very excited about the pick and either knows it'll be extremely popular or is completely oblivious that the fanbase is about to riot.

    If the former, it does play into the reports that the front office has been playing with the media for the last month and loving it. They're now finally able to start to show it.


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