Campaign targets Slow Drivers!

Stinicker

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0723/ireland/campaign-targets-dangers-caused-by-very-slow-drivers-201696.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/slow-drivers-urged-let-other-cars-pass-3175702.html

Eventually a bit of common sense, Slow Drivers are a total pain in the neck and if you cannot manage to drive a car at a minimum of 80 - 90km/h then you should not be on the road.

I have often been behind slow drivers and you could travel for a dozen kilometres before you'd find a truly safe place to overtake without oncoming traffic. In the meantime you'd have lads coming from three or four cars back overtaking totally blind all because some person thinks they literally own the road and can enforce their own speed limit and driving style upon everyone else. Many speeding related deaths are caused by slow drivers as some drivers will try and make up the lost time on the road with often fatal consequences.

Diar

anyone driving 10km/h less than the speed limit in safe weather condition and on a safe section of the road seen driving by the Garda with more than 5 cars behind them should be liable to get 2 penalty points for driving without due care and attention.

andyseadog

I stated a thread like this before about dangerously slow drivers and was attacked by some for it.

it'l be interesting to see how this one goes

Atomic Pineapple

It's a shame that this is coming from a localised county rather than from the heads of the RSA as a proper targeted advertised campaign. Most national roads suffer from this exact behavior, not only is the driver driving slow, they are blissfully unaware of whats behind them. Because of this they should be duly punished.

_Kaiser_

andyseadog wrote: »

I stated a thread like this before about dangerously slow drivers and was attacked by some for it.

it'l be interesting to see how this one goes

Oh rest assured that the "it's a limit not a target" brigade will be along soon enough, joined shortly thereafter by those who can't understand the difference between moving briefly into the hard shoulder to allow a car to pass (perfectly legal) and driving along for miles in it (not legal), and then you'll have the "I'm saving a fortune in fuel by driving slower/leave earlier and you won't be late" etc types :rolleyes:

My own opinion is simple.. if you're not capable/comfortable doing the posted limit when it's safe appropriate to do so, you shouldn't be on the road or at the VERY least, you shouldn't hold up those of us that can.

Drummerboy08

Its about time.

Now to target farm machinery.

TrailerBob

Depends on where it is happening. I think it should be an offence on motorways - I know they have a 50kph minimum speed, but it should be higher, it's amazing how dangerously fast you come up behind someone doing 60 kph when you are doing 120... (And yes, that's even whilst paying attention for the tall equine brigadiers)


On other roads it's a trickier scenario as you have tractors that are road legal but capable of only 25 kph tops.

TrailerBob

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Its about time.

Now to target farm machinery.

If you're being serious, then find another way for farmers to do their job, maybe hovertractors would keep you happy:D

Boardmaster

Can't be a bad thing for people to be aware of the speed (Slow or Fast) they are doing and the traffic around them.

Too slow on a motorway is a huge danger for cars doing a normal speed. (110 120)

Drummerboy08

TrailerBob wrote: »

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Its about time.

Now to target farm machinery.

If you're being serious, then find another way for farmers to do their job, maybe hovertractors would keep you happy:D

I am serious.


Nothing as frustrating as bring part of a 20 car convoy behind a tractor doing 30kmph. All while passing any amount of spots for the driver to pull into and let traffic by.

It happens too often, the operator either oblivious or ignorant to the mass of cars behind him.

BlueShaun

In some places tractors are used for commuting/going to the shops - that's hardly doing jobs...

**Timbuk2**

Makes sense, slow drivers can be very dangerous.
Joining a motorway behind a driver doing 60km/h is just painful.

TrailerBob

BlueShaun wrote: »

In some places tractors are used for commuting/going to the shops - that's hardly doing jobs...

In the minority in fairness...

Agree with the issue on pulling over, but it's been done a million times here, and like myself, many operators are happy to do so in a safe place.

I think this is aimed more at excessively slow driving of cars, as opposed to vehicles that just can't go any faster

_Kaiser_

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Joining a motorway behind a driver doing 60km/h is just painful.

More than that.. try getting up to speed to merge onto the M50 (for example) when you're behind one of these dawdlers and have a line of trucks to your right doing 80/90 bearing down on you as you approach the end of the slip road... :mad:

alias no.9

The safest way for traffic to move along any road is all at approximately the same speed. Thats the problem with the blanket slow down messages. The people who listen and act on the message are generally the people whos speed wasn't excessive in the first place, leaving a bigger difference between them and the people driving at excessive speed and most likely ignoring these messages, thus making the roads less safe. On a straight open section of road, the speed limit should also be a target, unless the conditions dictate otherwise. Limits and targets are not mutually exclusive.

Leonard Hofstadter

About bloody time someone did something about this. A pity it is only one county, still though, it's better than nothing.

Ironic in a way that this is happening in Mayo - the RSA's headquarters is in Ballina after all:D.

If everyone drove at the speed limit then it would massively reduce the number of overtaking manoeuvres on the roads and reduce the amount of "speeding". Whatever about the latter, if everyone drove quickly enough so as to stop the majority of people from overtaking, that would certainly make a huge difference considering the number of head on collisions there are on our roads.

PogMoThoin

TrailerBob wrote: »

If you're being serious, then find another way for farmers to do their job, maybe hovertractors would keep you happy:D

I've no problem with them during the day, they have a job to do and I respect that, but they should be banned from the road in dark hours. My wife came from work at 12.30AM last week and said she had to pass 2 tractors in the 15 miles home. This is not on. If you can't do what's needed of your tractor in daylight hours, give up. It's bright from ~5AM till ~11PM these days FFS.

Damien360

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Makes sense, slow drivers can be very dangerous.
Joining a motorway behind a driver doing 60km/h is just painful.

Not a word of a lie but I have been behind a middle aged woman in a Polo entering a motorway at less than that. I saw the same scenario twice in one week. She got to the end of the ramp, all the way to the motorway join and then stopped dead. Rolled down her window, put her head out and checked for traffic. She pulled out anyway with cars barrelling down at 120kmph. Scared the ****e out of me.

The second time I saw her I ran for the hard shoulder. I just know the cops would give me points for that and she would'nt be touched. Ramp is curragh exit from newbridge going dublin bound.

Now also add to that the people that decide to put the brakes on while still on the motorway as they approach an exit instead of using the run off safely.

TrailerBob

PogMoThoin wrote: »

. This is not on. If you can't do what's needed of your tractor in daylight hours, give up. It's bright from ~5AM till ~11PM these days FFS.

I see your point, but unfortunately our weather means that often farmers have to work round the clock, especially at harvest time, to save the crop before more crappy weather comes. Might as well ban the use of trucks and vans on a Sunday as this

PogMoThoin

TrailerBob wrote: »

I see your point, but unfortunately our weather means that often farmers have to work round the clock, especially at harvest time, to save the crop before more crappy weather comes. Might as well ban the use of trucks and vans on a Sunday as this

Eh, fcuk the harvest, public safety should always come first. 5AM to 11PM is an 18 hour window to do what you can during the safety of daylight.

TrailerBob

How exactly are they causing any extra danger, once the tractor and trailer are properly lit then its no different to daytime..

If they were not lit properly then same as any vehicle, shouldn't be on the road.

As for "f*** the harvest".. I assume you don't eat weetabix for breakfast then or bread etc etc

Damien360

TrailerBob wrote: »

How exactly are they causing any extra danger, once the tractor and trailer are properly lit then its no different to daytime..

If they were not lit properly then same as any vehicle, shouldn't be on the road.

As for "f*** the harvest".. I assume you don't eat weetabix for breakfast then or bread etc etc

The vast, vast majority of tractors and trailers are not well lit at all.

As I am not a farmer, I would pose a question for your average farmer. Have you ever been stopped for poor lighting in your tractor ? Is it subjective and therefore very hard to enforce this ?

Atomic Pineapple

At weekends I'm back home in the country side and the lighting on farm machinery on the roads can be atrocious at times.

However the same should be applied to the idiots who drive in bad/dim light/dark conditions with broken lights or just their parking lights on.

PogMoThoin

TrailerBob wrote: »

How exactly are they causing any extra danger, once the tractor and trailer are properly lit then its no different to daytime..

If they were not lit properly then same as any vehicle, shouldn't be on the road.

As for "f*** the harvest".. I assume you don't eat weetabix for breakfast then or bread etc etc

The fancy new tractors may be well lit up, often with beacons but from what I've seen the trailers are poorly lit and often with filthy dirty lenses. It's a slow moving hazardous vehicle, it should have a curfew.

TrailerBob

Cant speak for everyone, but I always have lights in good order, like anyone with modern equipment, but not all do, I agree.

But to somehow imply that driving a tractor on the road when it's dark is to endanger public safety is a bit of a stretch.

Damien360

TrailerBob wrote: »

Cant speak for everyone, but I always have lights in good order, like anyone with modern equipment, but not all do, I agree.

But to somehow imply that driving a tractor on the road when it's dark is to endanger public safety is a bit of a stretch.

Driving a tractor that is not well lit in the dark is endangering public safety. That is the point of the comments made by a few above. Experience tells most drivers that tractors are not well lit at all and no amount of telling farmers to light them better will change the situation. An NCT for tractors would cause uproar. By the way, are they subject to DOE ?

jackofalltrades

About time the queue makers were targeted.

Hopefully they'll go after drivers how sit right on their bumpers with no intention of overtaking next.

pburns

PogMoThoin wrote: »

The fancy new tractors may be well lit up, often with beacons but from what I've seen the trailers are poorly lit and often with filthy dirty lenses. It's a slow moving hazardous vehicle, it should have a curfew.

Curfew?:rolleyes:

You're not from the countryside are you? Or if you are you're the type who moves to the sticks and complains about a farmer spreading slurry on his field next door...

A curfew during harvest/baling time would be eh...unworkable..in the extreme! I do think you're 100% right that tractors should be well lit with beacons, working lights etc. Ideally there would be some sort of DOE type test but getting machines to a small number of test centres would put even more tractors on the road - some never leave the farmyard/adjoining fields...

Our man in Havana

TrailerBob wrote: »

I see your point, but unfortunately our weather means that often farmers have to work round the clock, especially at harvest time, to save the crop before more crappy weather comes. Might as well ban the use of trucks and vans on a Sunday as this

Most European countries have banned trucks on Sundays, some have them banned from 1600 on Friday till 2200 Sundays.

Colonel Sanders

jackofalltrades wrote: »

About time the queue makers were targeted.

Hopefully they'll go after drivers how sit right on their bumpers with no intention of overtaking next.

This does my head in tbh

Person X is driving very slowly. Person Y behind but has no intention of passing. Person Y does not fall back a bit so that person Z behind can overtake person Y then overtake person X. Instead it's sit & suffer or overtake 2 cars in the one manoeuvre.

I hate slow drivers. Drove Kerry to Wexford not long ago, the first 70 miles of very reasonable N road with a 100km/h speed limit took 2.5hrs (and it wasn't down to congestion in towns). Finally get the chance to overtake slowly McSlow & a few miles up the road you meet another.

Greyfoot

Our man in Havana

Greyfoot wrote: »

Now the RSA should order 100,000 of those.

Chuck_Norris

Only seeing this now, and am doing a little dance of joy!!!

As previous posters have said, it is a shame that it's not a national campaign. However, Mayo have been leaders in "innovative" road safety strategies before, and a lot of other counties have often followed suit.

I personally believe that excessive, inappropriate speed is the issue. To make the blanket statement of "Slow Down" or "Speed Kills" is wrong IMO.

It's a complex debate which can be had, the after effects of slow drivers. But personally, I do believe that they are a cause of accidents.

TrailerBob

Damien360 wrote: »

Driving a tractor that is not well lit in the dark is endangering public safety. ......... An NCT for tractors would cause uproar. By the way, are they subject to DOE ?

I do get that, and never disputed that point, but to suggest properly lit machines being taken off the road in the dark, especially later on in the year is a joke. One persons nuisance is another persons livelihood.

Theres no standard testing for agricultural machinery, they are exempt. I do think a doe style test would be a good thing, for lights, brakes etc. the only real issue being the size of some machines.

AugustusMinimus

Not making significant progress should be a penalty point offence.

The larger the standard deviation away from the average speed on a given road, the higher the crash/injury/fatality rate.

Optimally everyone woud drive at the same speed, hence no overtaking would be necessary. This obviously won't happen but reducing the need for a lot of overtaking would greatly help.

A bit of common courtesy to faster drivers who are behind you would be nice too. Sadly, there are too many people in this country who will try their level best to stop you from overtaking them.

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

, it's amazing how dangerously fast you come up behind someone doing 60 kph when you are doing 120...

When you are doing 120km/h and approaching vehicle doing 60km/h, it's the same feeling as approaching a stationary vehicle while doing 60km/h.

But....

For braking from 120km/h to 60km/h you need 3 times as long stratch of road, as for breaking from 60km/h to 0.

TrailerBob

CiniO wrote: »

When you are doing 120km/h and approaching vehicle doing 60km/h, it's the same feeling as approaching a stationary vehicle while doing 60km/h.

But....

For braking from 120km/h to 60km/h you need 3 times as long stratch of road, as for breaking from 60km/h to 0.

My point exactly, it's not something you expect on a motorway, and as per the OP, should be dealt with. I think 80 kph minimum on a motorway would be acceptable. If you can't do 80 safely, then take a different route, a motorway is not the place for you.

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

My point exactly, it's not something you expect on a motorway, and as per the OP, should be dealt with. I think 80 kph minimum on a motorway would be acceptable. If you can't do 80 safely, then take a different route, a motorway is not the place for you.

They can't put minimum of 80km/h on motorways, as 80km/h is the speed limit for some vehicles there (any vehicle towing a trailer). So then they could do 80km/h and only 80km/h (either 79 or 81 would be illegal for them which would be ridiculous).
60km/h however in my opinion is acceptable reasonable minimum speed which should be enforced, as I can't think of any really steep motorways streatches in Ireland, where fully loaded trucks couldn't do that speed.

Del2005

TrailerBob wrote: »

Depends on where it is happening. I think it should be an offence on motorways - I know they have a 50kph minimum speed, but it should be higher, it's amazing how dangerously fast you come up behind someone doing 60 kph when you are doing 120... (And yes, that's even whilst paying attention for the tall equine brigadiers)


On other roads it's a trickier scenario as you have tractors that are road legal but capable of only 25 kph tops.

There is no minimum speed limit on our motorways. It's illegal to drive a vehicle which can't exceed 50km/h on a motorway. But you can legally drive at 5km/h on a motorway in a Veron if you want and nothing will be done to you.

RandomAccess

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I've no problem with them during the day, they have a job to do and I respect that, but they should be banned from the road in dark hours. My wife came from work at 12.30AM last week and said she had to pass 2 tractors in the 15 miles home. This is not on. If you can't do what's needed of your tractor in daylight hours, give up. It's bright from ~5AM till ~11PM these days FFS.

Were these vehicles unlit.. if so then saying it in your original post quoted above would have saved a lot of arguing.. You may have noticed that everybody agrees the vehicles need to be safely lit after dark. Many silage contractors go to some lengths to light up their vehicles with Yellow beacons etc. These are not without their flaws, while it makes the vehicle easier to see at a distance they can dazzle drivers who are following and need to overtake, but with antiquated lighting guidelines its hard to cast blame for a flawed attempt at safety.

I assume it would be equally irritating if someone was to question why your wife was coming from work so late and informing you that she should work 9 to 5 and stop being a nuisance. :eek:

The true solutions are not even all that difficult,
We really need to get rid of our hard shoulders, require everyone to carry electronic flares light the gardai have or japanese style flares and euro triangles. Add frequent short overtaking areas with signs stating "slow vehicles pull in now" etc. But it seems that no new legislation is drafted these days unless it is introduced in the house of parliament first, or is mandated by Brussels. Little use when our agricultural and road network is relatively unique.

arleitiss

What pisses me off really as a learner is sorry for this but - Total assholes on roads. If I drive within speed limit (say it's a 60 km/h on a small 1 lane road with lots of bends something like around airport in Dublin) it has white continuous lane for no overtake. Then some ****ing **** is driving behind me and beeping for going slow. I mean yeah sure I may be delaying him, but I rather not break law and it's very hard to take those bends at more than 60 km/h. Really when I am beeping for going too slow (though I am within speed limit) makes me really annoyed and makes me wanna beat the crap out of that drive behind me.

But yeah I don't think I am considered as one of those "slow drivers" usually I drive few km faster than limit.
So say if limit is 50 km/h I drive 55, or when it's 90, I drive 95-97. When it's 100 I drive 105 or so as I heard there is like 5 or 10% tolerance?

brownswiss

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I've no problem with them during the day, they have a job to do and I respect that, but they should be banned from the road in dark hours. My wife came from work at 12.30AM last week and said she had to pass 2 tractors in the 15 miles home. This is not on. If you can't do what's needed of your tractor in daylight hours, give up. It's bright from ~5AM till ~11PM these days FFS.

...

Presume your wife had been out mowing meadow until 12.30 am ?..
You are correct . " This is not on "... Agricultural contractors should be banned from working on a shift basis during the few good days/ nights so your wife can get home quicker to make your supper

mistermouse

This is long overdue, I have no problem with slow moving vehicles using the road, but where they dont make it easy to overtake is a real problem in this country

Tractors often could pull in but choose not to, even where it is safe to do so and a long tailback behind them

Was it not the law once that you could not hold up over 7 vehicles or similiar

Slow drivers hogging the road often end up in others either overtaking dangerously or trying to make up time later in the journey

As far as I have witnessed, really slow drivers often think they have a god given right to the road just as boy racers think its acceptable to speed,

Common curteousy should be part of every drivers method of driving

Those who tailgate without any intention or ability to overtake should be penalised for holding everyone else back too

Heroditas

arleitiss wrote: »

What pisses me off really as a learner is sorry for this but - Total assholes on roads. If I drive within speed limit (say it's a 60 km/h on a small 1 lane road with lots of bends something like around airport in Dublin) it has white continuous lane for no overtake. Then some ****ing **** is driving behind me and beeping for going slow. I mean yeah sure I may be delaying him, but I rather not break law and it's very hard to take those bends at more than 60 km/h.

Get used to it!

alias no.9

arleitiss wrote: »

What pisses me off really as a learner is sorry for this but - Total assholes on roads. If I drive within speed limit (say it's a 60 km/h on a small 1 lane road with lots of bends something like around airport in Dublin) it has white continuous lane for no overtake. Then some ****ing **** is driving behind me and beeping for going slow. I mean yeah sure I may be delaying him, but I rather not break law and it's very hard to take those bends at more than 60 km/h. Really when I am beeping for going too slow (though I am within speed limit) makes me really annoyed and makes me wanna beat the crap out of that drive behind me.

But yeah I don't think I am considered as one of those "slow drivers" usually I drive few km faster than limit.
So say if limit is 50 km/h I drive 55, or when it's 90, I drive 95-97. When it's 100 I drive 105 or so as I heard there is like 5 or 10% tolerance?

I had a good rant along a similar line some years back when there were some idiots campaigning to have learners limited to 80km/h on national routes. It would have entailed a constant stream of 'qualified' drivers itching to overtake learners at every conceivable (and often inconceivable) opportunity. What kind of example would that be setting for learners and what would have been the first thing newly qualified drivers would be doing when coming up behind a learner?

Reg'stoy

Stinicker wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0723/ireland/campaign-targets-dangers-caused-by-very-slow-drivers-201696.html

Many speeding related deaths are caused by slow drivers as some drivers will try and make up the lost time on the road with often fatal consequences.

You don't happen to write for the daily mail by any chance, many as you state is actually 7% according to the very article you are referencing

The campaign has been launched by Mayo County Council after it was discovered that almost 7% of accidents in the county were caused by improper overtaking.
Some of these accidents have been caused by reckless overtaking but in other cases the accident resulted from a driver overtaking particularly slow vehicles.

where as speeding accounts for approx 33%,

Speeding accounted for 41 of the 124 fatalities in Mayo during that period.

so a bit of less of the Jayus Joe hysteria.

They mentioned in the article about stress which to me is the underlying cause of a lot of poor Irish driving. It seems that a lot of people are stressed over middle lane hoggers, tail gaters, slow drivers, fast drivers. We tend to drive with one person in mind ME and fcuk the rest of ye.

In as much as people say if you can't keep to a certain speed you shouldn't be on the road, if you either A aren't patient enough to overtake safely or B rude enough to flash or tailgate another motorist in the hopes of getting them to do YOUR speed, well then maybe you should be taking anger management classes before venturing back out.

I spent a couple of minutes sitting behind a learner driver this morning, roads were wet and they were probably in a ball of sweat so the last thing they needed was a car full of rearview mirror. They were doing 60 in an 80 which to them was the safe speed for THEM to be doing.

Before we start 'targeting' slow drivers I'd rather see non indicators and incorrect lane users targeted as they for me are worse still. Infact if there was a way to test far and remove selfish drivers from our roads because they are the ones who tailgate, hold up and drive with the attitude that "I know where I'm going what's it to you".

Bohrio

alias no.9 wrote: »

I had a good rant along a similar line some years back when there were some idiots campaigning to have learners limited to 80km/h on national routes. It would have entailed a constant stream of 'qualified' drivers itching to overtake learners at every conceivable (and often inconceivable) opportunity. What kind of example would that be setting for learners and what would have been the first thing newly qualified drivers would be doing when coming up behind a learner?

I am not sure how it works in Ireland but in countries like Spain, Portugal etc L drivers are not allow to exceed 80 km/h and they are banned from highways/motorways.

But I think L drivers here are not the same as in those countries. In Spain stick the L to your car when you have passed all your tests and for 1 years you are obliged to use it, if the police stops you and you dont have the L during this period you will get a ticket.

But, and this I am not sure, I think in Ireland L drivers are people who have passed their written tests and are waiting to get their practical test? Is this right or is it the same as in Spain?

Ta

ballooba

CiniO wrote: »

When you are doing 120km/h and approaching vehicle doing 60km/h, it's the same feeling as approaching a stationary vehicle while doing 60km/h.

But....

For braking from 120km/h to 60km/h you need 3 times as long stratch of road, as for breaking from 60km/h to 0.

I'm not convinced. According to the RSA your stopping distance from 120kmph is marginally above three times that from 60kmph.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/speed-limits/speed-limits_stopping-distances-cars.html

ballooba

Reg'stoy wrote: »

You don't happen to write for the daily mail by any chance, many as you state is actually 7% according to the very article you are referencing

7% is plenty given that this is the first time in my memory that this issue has been highlighted in the media. If this issue accounts for 1/5th as many accidents/fatalities(?) as excessive speed, then is it not right that it receives 1/5th of the attention? In actual fact it does not, this along with far too many other issues is completely ignored in favour of the 'speed kills' dogma. This despite the fact that the 'speed kills' mantra is a ridiculous statement in the first place. It's equivalent to 'movement kills'.

L1011

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Most European countries have banned trucks on Sundays, some have them banned from 1600 on Friday till 2200 Sundays.

Most European countries also have some form of actively enforced Sunday trading restrictions.

We, thankfully, do not. One of the very few bits of modernity/secularism we somehow have.

kbyte61

People should just drive the speed limit whenever they can. A driving instructor that was giving me lessons before my test always told me to drive the limit.