Team Sky demolish the tour!

IM0

first of all hearty congratulations to wiggins for winning the tour and becoming the first ever british person to do so! Im surprised there is no thread about this tbh

what a show of strength by sky though. first cav wins 2-3 stages. wiggins the opening and ending TT's, froome wins a mountain stage, and 2nd on GC in Paris. cav wins a record 4th straight champs elyesee stage win, and the first man to win that stage in the WC jersey too!

unbelievable performance all round :eek:

yes, the tour was built for him this year, but he and sky had to do everything right to win it, so hats off sky for TROUNCING the competition

chapeau :cool:

Lusk Doyle

IM0 wrote: »

first of all hearty congratulations to wiggins for winning the tour and becoming the first ever british person to do so! Im surprised there is no thread about this tbh

what a show of strength by sky though. first cav wins 2-3 stages. wiggins the opening and ending TT's, froome wins a mountain stage, and 2nd on GC in Paris. cav wins a record 4th straight champs elyesee stage win, and the first man to win that stage in the WC jersey too!

unbelievable performance all round :eek:

yes, the tour was built for him this year, but he and sky had to do everything right to win it, so hats off sky for TROUNCING the competition

chapeau :cool:

Cav won 3 stages. Froome didn't win any.

IM0

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Cav won 3 stages. Froome didn't win any.

eh, He won one of the first mountain stages!

Encrypted Pigeon

he won stage 7.

Lusk Doyle

Sintel wrote: »

he won stage 7.

Oh yes, my mistake. The one with Evans at the end. It was so long ago I had forgotten!

Hungrycol

Imagine a whole Tour with no race radios?! Now that would be interesting.

Hats off to Wiggins and esp Sky who neutralised the Tour from start to finish.

Jawgap

they were impressively well organised both for the race and in the run-up to it and have set new standards in terms of preparation and organisation.

The question is what now for them?

It'll be interesting to see the route for next year's Tour and whether there are two TT's in it. In Froome though - if they can hang on to him - they seem to have a rider who can win if the route is made lumpier.

Junior

Looks like they are dumping Cav already ..

Diarmuid

Junior wrote: »

Looks like they are dumping Cav already ..

I'd say it's more like Cav dumping them.

donalg1

Can someone explain how the team decide which rider they are going to help to win, or do they only do this after a couple of races when they can see who is ahead of the others.

And if they decide this beforehand are there riders on a team that basically never have a chance of winning the tour?

C3PO

Diarmuid wrote: »

I'd say it's more like Cav dumping them.

I could never understand why he went to Sky in the 1st place! Brailsford had never made any secret of his General Classification ambitions so Cav was never going to get the same level of support that he was used to! Maybe just for the Olympic year and a Sky "clean sweep"?

Diarmuid

donalg1 wrote: »

Can someone explain how the team decide which rider they are going to help to win, or do they only do this after a couple of races when they can see who is ahead of the others.

If you have a guy on your team who is in with a decent chance of winning the TdF, you'd support him fully. Very few riders are realistically in with a shot so when you have someone like Wiggins on your team, it's a no brainer. (having Froome on your team, does make it more difficult though!) You'll know beforehand if they are GC riders.

donalg1 wrote: »

And if they decide this beforehand are there riders on a team that basically never have a chance of winning the tour?

At least 180 riders in this years TdF never had a chance of winning the tour.

Jawgap

Diarmuid wrote: »

I'd say it's more like Cav dumping them.

Looks like a case of Brailsford being honest and saying this is the way it is - 'we're focused on GC,' which means until that is in the bag Cav will have to fulfill the role of 'super-domestique.' If he can't handle that, it'll be another team for him.

His opportunity for stage wins may be curtailed, but maybe being a part of Sky offers other advantages in terms or recognition and marketing for both Cav and Sky - especially if he lands the gold next week.

Beasty

Diarmuid wrote: »

I'd say it's more like Cav dumping them.

Not sure anyone's dumping anyone. Let's see what happens at the Olympics, but so far it looks as if this "arrangement" has worked for everyone - Cav has the rainbow jersey and is favourite for Gold, Wiggo the yellow jersey and a team that can support him going forward. If Sky and Cav decide to part ways after the Olympics I don't think anyone will have anything to complain about.

Jawgap

Diarmuid wrote: »

......when you have someone like Wiggins on your team, it's a no brainer. (having Froome on your team, does make it more difficult though!) ........

Bit like when McLaren had Prost and Senna in the same team

Junior

Diarmuid wrote: »

I'd say it's more like Cav dumping them.

You think ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18949125#TWEET176439

ThisRegard

Hungrycol wrote: »

Imagine a whole Tour with no race radios?! Now that would be interesting.

That's the only way to make the tour interesting these days. Yeah, they demolished the tour alright, demolished it of any interest or excitement.

TheBlaaMan

It was an impressive display of strength and domination .........................in the same way that you could say you were impressed by Hitlers blitzkrieg tactics......

TBH, if it was wasn't for the likes of Voeckler, Pinot and LL Sanchez's stages wins, this would have been a pretty aweful spectacle IMO.

I'm only hoping that other teams dont follow the Sky approach and we have more of these trains of singular, tactical donimation in coming years.............TdF SHOULD be a spectacle, and it needs clean, amazing, individual performances to light it up. I guess that as doping is eradicated (sorry, reduced) we are possibly going to face more of these types of performances..............:(

C3PO

ThisRegard wrote: »

Yeah, they demolished the tour alright, demolished it of any interest or excitement.

You can hardly blame Sky for being professional, organised and hard working? It's up to the other teams to raise their games to match them!

Raymzor

Olympic road race success in London requires significant team support with the stiff Box hill in the circuit. Maybe Cav will have this support after his Team (UK quasi SKY;)) efforts over the last few weeks.

ThisRegard

C3PO wrote: »

You can hardly blame Sky for being professional, organised and hard working? It's up to the other teams to raise their games to match them!

I can, and I damn well will ! It's the internet don't you know, there's no place for logic and reason here !

ashleey

Delighted for Wiggins. Thought Cav was outstanding in last 2 stages and Wiggins did his turn at the front to help him. Not many in yellow would risk that. Sky destroyed the competition but did assemble the best support team available. Outside of Froome, imagine having Porte and Knees and EBH doing 50 km each at the front as a sacrifice? Brailsford said 'we told Knees it was pointless touring round France and coming twentieth. Come and work with us.' So they got top riders just to be support. No one else could afford that.
For the UK it shows what a 10 year track programme can achieve. Huge respect for Wiggins and his telling certain reporters to eff off.
Would agree that race radios should go and also power meters to inject some randomness into the tour. Can't blame Sky for that though.

chainsawman

No doping speculation

Tombo2001

ashleey wrote: »

Delighted for Wiggins. Thought Cav was outstanding in last 2 stages and Wiggins did his turn at the front to help him.

Not taking away from Wiggins support for Cavendish, was there any risk for him in leading him out on the final stage.......my understanding was that once he reached Paris, Wiggins had already won......15km from the end or so.

buffalo

Junior wrote: »

You think ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18949125#TWEET176439

That still sounds like Cav dumping them... if he wants to. Sky are happy to keep him, but sounds like he won't get any more dedicated men than he had in this year's Tour. That's not exactly dumping, it's just status quo.

2 Wheels Good

ThisRegard wrote: »

That's the only way to make the tour interesting these days. Yeah, they demolished the tour alright, demolished it of any interest or excitement.

Has everyone forgotten a certain rider/team controlling the peloton for years?

two wheels good

..why is it so unexpected and praiseworthy for Wiggins to lead out Cav prior to the final sprint? Isn't that what teamwork is all about. Didn't Cav - and Froome especially - sacrifice for Wiggins all through the tour.

And why would the winner want to cruise to the finish line along with the peloton instead of enjoying the limelight amongst the leaders when the opportunity presented?

Yours curiously

ThisRegard

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten a certain rider/team controlling the peloton for years?

Certain rider's', both Indurain or Armstrong in 'recent' times. But from my recollection the tours then still had a lot more attacks and excitement. Say what you want about their background the tours then were more entertaining and there wasn't the certainty that the attacks would inevitably be caught within the last few k.

petethedrummer

Hungrycol wrote: »

Imagine a whole Tour with no race radios?! Now that would be interesting.

I really hope this tour prods them in the direction of banning radios. I'd go a step further and ban power meters too. That might stop that god awful tempo riding.


"This week, we were riding tempo at the front on some of these climbs, at 450 watts, and Michael Rogers is the man with all the numbers, the road captain," he said.

"Someone would attack and Mick would say 'just leave him, he can't sustain (it), it's not possible to sustain."

They weren't even looking at the competition, they were looking at their power meters.

chainsawman

petethedrummer wrote: »

I really hope this tour prods them in the direction of banning radios. I'd go a step further and ban power meters too. That might stop that god awful tempo riding.

Agreed 100%...

unichall

I can't see race radio being banned to be honest, all the teams are pro radio and will argue a 'safety' perspective and ultimately win.

Not taking anything away from Wiggins and SKY because i think while it made the tour a bit or a snorefest it wasn't there fault being so good that other teams couldn't compete but the one thing lacking this year that will be there in years to come is competition.

Lets see next year if SKY can control a race with Contador, A. Schlek, a hopefully a better conditioned Evans and maybe froome at a different team. Coming into this years race is was really only between 2 men so it was already set to be boring if one or the other was if the pace, how exciting could it be when 1,2 were on the same team following team orders???

The let down of this year was the number of genuine GC contenders so hopefully next year it should be a cracker.

Chapeau Wiggins and SKY you can only beat whoever turns up and that you did!

on_the_nickel

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Has everyone forgotten a certain rider/team controlling the peloton for years?

That team rarely, if ever, won any other stages, or had any other significant talent (except domestiques of the highest calibre).

Sky won 6 stages. They had 1 & 2 in GC, the fastest sprinter in the world, and the likes of EBH, Richie Porte, Mick Rogers, who could very conceivably be leaders and GC contenders for other teams, working on the early hills. Not to mention Flecha, Uran, Thomas, Lofkvist etc sitting at home.

Their budget is huge.

Jawgap

two wheels good wrote: »

..why is it so unexpected and praiseworthy for Wiggins to lead out Cav prior to the final sprint? Isn't that what teamwork is all about. Didn't Cav - and Froome especially - sacrifice for Wiggins all through the tour.

And why would the winner want to cruise to the finish line along with the peloton instead of enjoying the limelight amongst the leaders when the opportunity presented?

Yours curiously

Wiggins had the win wrapped up and it was his to lose - he could have sat off the back of the group and just coasted around the Champs Elysee enjoying the sights and sounds.

Hitting the front and mixing it up was potentially risky if he'd touched wheels with someone or if he got taken down in a pile-up it could have cost him the victory and even participation in the Olympics.

Plenty of teams, winners etc cruise to victory - whether it's a soccer team putting 11 men behind the ball when they are 3-0 up with five minutes to go; a rugby team kicking rather than running; or the racing car driver who only needs a third. The fact that Wiggins didn't I think is a positive.

petethedrummer

chainsawman wrote: »

Agreed 100%...

Actually just to disagree with myself, I had been thinking during the race that if they have all this technology they should make the data available to the public live.

There should be an official timing point at the bottom and top of the climbs and at intermediate locations. So we get exact times for each climb. All power data should be available live and the weight of each rider at the start of the day. And there should be a live update of estimated VAM and watts/kg. Bombard us with figures a la formula one.

Since there is no longer any magic they need to show us the science. At the moment we have to sit there listening to the commentars harp on about magnificent effort this, sport of professional cycling that and we're still in the dark as to how they are actually racing. There's enough dead air time they could fill it with a bit of science.

I'd prefer no technology but it has to go one way or the other.

buffalo

petethedrummer wrote: »

Actually just to disagree with myself, I had been thinking during the race that if they have all this technology they should make the data available to the public live.

I think the UCI disallowed making data available live - GPS, power, etc.

TheBlaaMan

petethedrummer wrote: »

"This week, we were riding tempo at the front on some of these climbs, at 450 watts, and Michael Rogers is the man with all the numbers, the road captain," he said.

"Someone would attack and Mick would say 'just leave him, he can't sustain (it), it's not possible to sustain."

And thats the recipe for a boring tour. You could readily watch whoever from Sky was on the front watching his power meter as much as any other rider........thats technology. Are we heading the dorection of F1?

I'd rather be out cycling....TBH

Junior

on_the_nickel wrote: »

That team rarely, if ever, won any other stages, or had any other significant talent (except domestiques of the highest calibre).

Sky won 6 stages. They had 1 & 2 in GC, the fastest sprinter in the world, and the likes of EBH, Richie Porte, Mick Rogers, who could very conceivably be leaders and GC contenders for other teams, working on the early hills. Not to mention Flecha, Uran, Thomas, Lofkvist etc sitting at home.

Their budget is huge.

I'd disagree with Mick, Flecha etc being quality leaders elsewhere, Flecha is off to Vacansoleil at the end of the year, Rodgers was in the wilderness for a long time after Telekom. EBH is a different kettle of fish, and I wonder how long will he stay in servitude to others. Basically they've assembled the highest horsepower team that they can and put them on the front at the to stop attacks.

I think they will completely morph into a GC team and give up any attempts at Classics.

Diarmuid

Junior wrote: »

You think ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18949125#TWEET176439

I do. http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12462/Brian-Holm-Mark-Cavendish-is-not-happy-with-Team-Sky.aspx

petethedrummer

buffalo wrote: »

I think the UCI disallowed making data available live - GPS, power, etc.

I could understand a few years ago that it may have been used as a stick to beat them with over doping but with the numbers returning to historical norms they should reconsider.

unichall

petethedrummer wrote: »

I could understand a few years ago that it may have been used as a stick to beat them with over doping but with the numbers returning to historical norms they should reconsider.

They said on Eurosport this year that it is too expensive and too technically challenging to do at the minute. i can see why too, they have trouble enough getting tv images out when they get up into the high mountains never mind transmitting rider data from 190+ ride rs over 200km and onto the tv

no doubt it will happen in years to come and id love to see it but a step to far to soon me thinks

on_the_nickel

Junior wrote: »

I'd disagree with Mick, Flecha etc being quality leaders elsewhere, Flecha is off to Vacansoleil at the end of the year, Rodgers was in the wilderness for a long time after Telekom. EBH is a different kettle of fish, and I wonder how long will he stay in servitude to others. Basically they've assembled the highest horsepower team that they can and put them on the front at the to stop attacks.

I think they will completely morph into a GC team and give up any attempts at Classics.

Agree, Rogers was a bit of a push. On his form in this years tour however, he'd be up there. Never said Flecha would be a leader, but their strength in depth is astonishing.

buffalo

petethedrummer wrote: »

I could understand a few years ago that it may have been used as a stick to beat them with over doping but with the numbers returning to historical norms they should reconsider.

The ban only came in just before this year's Giro. I remember reading about it on inrng or or velonation somewhere, but this is all I can find at the moment:

http://blog.urremote.com/2012/05/uci-bans-race-tracking-until-further.html

buffalo

The prize money from the Tour per team. Really shows Sky's dominance.



http://inrng.com/2012/07/2012-tour-de-france-prize-list/

AIR-AUSSIE

buffalo wrote: »

The prize money from the Tour per team. Really shows Sky's dominance.



http://inrng.com/2012/07/2012-tour-de-france-prize-list/

I would like to see how each team budget compares to their prize money won. It seems SKY have a huge set up. Do they have a huge budget compared to other teams?

Jawgap

IIRC when they were set up, there were rumours flying around that their budget was in excess of 30 million - but I can't remember if that was sterling, euros or dollars.

This graphic suggests a budget of around 11 million euros, behind Saxo Bank, Katusha & Leopard Trek

AIR-AUSSIE

That's from last year though

petethedrummer

Jawgap wrote: »

This graphic suggests a budget of around 11 million euros, behind Saxo Bank, Katusha & Leopard Trek

yeah I've read somewhere they are not the highest. I think its their scientific approach that attracts people. And the monkey spanking.

Brian?

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

petethedrummer wrote: »

"This week, we were riding tempo at the front on some of these climbs, at 450 watts, and Michael Rogers is the man with all the numbers, the road captain," he said.

"Someone would attack and Mick would say 'just leave him, he can't sustain (it), it's not possible to sustain."

And thats the recipe for a boring tour. You could readily watch whoever from Sky was on the front watching his power meter as much as any other rider........thats technology. Are we heading the dorection of F1?

I'd rather be out cycling....TBH

The problem with this years tour was not the technology or race radio it was simply the lack of talent in the peleton.

Who were the genuine GC contenders at the start? Wiggins and Evans, it was always going to be a snoozefest.

If Nibali was good enough, no amount of tempo riding could have stopped him.

Lets wait and see how you ride in a controlled manner next year when Contador and Andy are jumping off the front and working over Sky. Froome might survive it, Wiggins won't. Contador will bury Froome in the TT as well.

Any idea who's riding for Sky in the Vuelta?

elduggo

briankeating wrote: »

Any idea who's riding for Sky in the Vuelta?

Froome will be team leader. I'd expect Flecha and the Colombians. Thomas might be back by then too. And one or 2 of the other brits who need the experience of a grand tour (Stannard, Dowsett, etc).

I'd also not be the least bit surprised if Cavendish opts to ride it. Its a well hilly route, but thats never put him off before. If Cav is there Eisel will be there also.

The Vuelta has the makings of the best Grand Tour of 2012.

buffalo

elduggo wrote: »

I'd also not be the least bit surprised if Cavendish opts to ride it. Its a well hilly route, but thats never put him off before. If Cav is there Eisel will be there also.

I don't know - he's already done the Giro and the Tour, and add the Olympics and preparation, I'd say he'll be ready for some time off. I know I would!

on_the_nickel

buffalo wrote: »

The prize money from the Tour per team. Really shows Sky's dominance.


http://inrng.com/2012/07/2012-tour-de-france-prize-list/

The other thing that strikes me is the paltry sums of money involved. A team who won 3 stages and the KOM get just over 100k, Garmin got 26k!

For a team of 9 riders, and who knows how many DSs, soigneurs, chefs, mechanics etc, on the road for a month - how much do they lose on a purely operational level (i.e. taking sponsorship and other revenue streams out of it)?