Would you be fined for driving 25 km/h in 5km/h area?

arleitiss

Hey, just out of curiosity, I was today in a apartments block/area in finglas (it's the apartments which have 3 way junction at the gate (those who did exam there will know it)). So I drove in and it said 5 km/h speed limit, that's the speed human walks, I found it very difficult to drive at that speed as just letting clutch off in 1st gear makes it roll faster. So I got into this discussion with friend how funny it would be if I actually got speeding ticket in that area, is that actually possible? Or are those speed limits for pedestrians?

adamski8

arleitiss wrote: »

Hey, just out of curiosity, I was today in a apartments block/area in finglas (it's the apartments which have 3 way junction at the gate (those who did exam there will know it)). So I drove in and it said 5 km/h speed limit, that's the speed human walks, I found it very difficult to drive at that speed as just letting clutch off in 1st gear makes it roll faster. So I got into this discussion with friend how funny it would be if I actually got speeding ticket in that area, is that actually possible? Or are those speed limits for pedestrians?

it is quite funny alright. It would be extremely hard to do 5km there anyway seeing its sloped, you have you foot on the break the whole time going in. Surely making a speed limit that low must be illegal as well as being stupid.

arleitiss

adamski8 wrote: »

it is quite funny alright. It would be extremely hard to do 5km there anyway seeing its sloped, you have you foot on the break the whole time going in. Surely making a speed limit that low must be illegal as well as being stupid.

Yeah it's very steep hill + bends there. So basically:
if you obey speed limit = might stall multiple times or do coasting
If you do everything not to coast and stall = break speed limit.

CiniO

Is it just a notice saying 5km/h speed limit or is it actuall speed limit sign (round red circle with 5km/h written on it)?

If it's just a notice, I don't think it has any legal meaning.

dmmnnba

Ridiculous speed limit. Wonder if anyone has ever been able to obey it (even while walking). Presumably it is on private property and I don't think you can be fined for speeding on private property.

artanevilla

It could be a case that the roads at these apartments are private roads, so the limit isn't enforceable.

arleitiss

CiniO wrote: »

Is it just a notice saying 5km/h speed limit or is it actuall speed limit sign (round red circle with 5km/h written on it)?

If it's just a notice, I don't think it has any legal meaning.

no, it's literally a round sign with red line around numbers (as speed limit signs are)

artanevilla

Can you find on Google maps where this road is?

Wishbone Ash

The lowest public place legal speed limit is 30kph. Those limits on private property have no legal basis.

bladespin

Don't know any public road that has a 5kmh limit, if it's not public then you can't be prosecuted for breaking it.

eringobragh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRfzSbtOnYs

arleitiss

Here have a look:
http://goo.gl/maps/pAc7
Just pull off into 3D steet view on that drive in.
Try this maybe:
http://goo.gl/maps/5vFg

CiniO

arleitiss wrote: »

no, it's literally a round sign with red line around numbers (as speed limit signs are)

But actually in that case I'm still not sure if that might be legally binding.
Road traffic regulations define road traffic signs, and among those signs there are 30, 50, 60, 80, 100, and 120 km/h limit signs and no others.

I don't think it's like that someone can put up a road sign and paint anything on it hoping that drivers will understand. There is only limited number of defined signs that every driver should know, and anything other than that shouldn't really be a road sign.

arleitiss

CiniO wrote: »

But actually in that case I'm still not sure if that might be legally binding.
Road traffic regulations define road traffic signs, and among those signs there are 30, 50, 60, 80, 100, and 120 km/h limit signs and no others.

I don't think it's like that someone can put up a road sign and paint anything on it hoping that drivers will understand. There is only limited number of defined signs that every driver should know, and anything other than that shouldn't really be a road sign.

Check the links I posted, it says 5 km/ph the part where it says km/ph seems weird at least for me as I have never seen a sign indicating in such format

artanevilla

Looks like a private road, so I'd say signs were put up by the apartments management company.

arleitiss

artanevilla wrote: »

Looks like a private road, so I'd say signs were put up by the apartments management company.

Still it looks odd and just silly though.

CiniO

arleitiss wrote: »

Check the links I posted, it says 5 km/ph the part where it says km/ph seems weird at least for me as I have never seen a sign indicating in such format

Hahahhaah.
That made me laught loud...
km/ph

As SI unit system is officially applies in Ireland, there is no such unit as "ph"... "km" is kilometre. "h" is for hour.

But.... here's all the fun.
ph according to SI system should be understand as pico-hour. (p is prefix for pico which equal 10 to the power of -12 (minus 12).
Works exactly the same way as km is kilo-metre (k is prefix for kilo which is 10 to the power of 3, therefore kilometre is 1000 metres).

So 1 hour is 3600 seconds, while pico-hour would be 0.0000000036 seconds.

That eventually gives us a result of speed of 5 kilometres per picohour, which is a speed way faster than light speed. You shouldn't be worried then about getting fined unless you are travelling in millenium falcon.

Whoever put up that sing, is a master for me

steve9859

arleitiss wrote: »

Still it looks odd and just silly though.

It is just to cover the management company's ass if some moron drives through too fast and hits someone. It's a private road, but they can just say "hey, there's a sign", thereby absolving themselves of any responsibility. Seems pretty sensible to me

Tope

Found this on Wikipedia (not sure how relevent it is but anyway):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_speed_limits_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

The Minister for Transport issued a direction to road authorities under section 95(16) of the Road Traffic Act 1961 in February 2007 with respect to a range of non-regulatory traffic signs. Chapter 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual was superseded by an updated version which allowed for the erection of signage stating a cautionary speed limit in the vicinity of Road Works. These speed limits are purposely different from legal speed limits and always display a speed limit that ends in 5, for example 35 km/h (22 mph), 45 km/h (28 mph), etc. They are not legally binding on drivers but it is likely that in the event of a road traffic accident that the issue of if they were being complied with, would be taken into account.

* * * *

I remember back in 2005 when they first switched over from miles to kilometres, there was an article I read somewhere (sorry, can't find source) taking the piss out of the 5 km/h speed limit. Apparently in places that originally had a 5mph limit, the council/management companies had decided to just keep it at '5' rather than change to an awkward number like 8 km/h, so it was never really thought through.

The article told how they set up a little test in one of these areas to see how ridiculous it was – the car could barely keep from stalling, and they even had a cyclist having trouble keeping under 5 km/h. And as said above, the average pedestrian would walk faster than that anyway.

Jimdagym

CiniO wrote: »

Hahahhaah.
That made me laught loud...
km/ph

As SI unit system is officially applies in Ireland, there is no such unit as "ph"... "km" is kilometre. "h" is for hour.

But.... here's all the fun.
ph according to SI system should be understand as pico-hour. (p is prefix for pico which equal 10 to the power of -12 (minus 12).
Works exactly the same way as km is kilo-metre (k is prefix for kilo which is 10 to the power of 3, therefore kilometre is 1000 metres).

So 1 hour is 3600 seconds, while pico-hour would be 0.0000000036 seconds.

That eventually gives us a result of speed of 5 kilometres per picohour, which is a speed way faster than light speed. You shouldn't be worried then about getting fined unless you are travelling in millenium falcon.

Whoever put up that sing, is a master for me

You have a funny sense of humour.

CiniO

Jimdagym wrote: »

You have a funny sense of humour.

I'm just a bit scientific mind, and that's funny for me. It's not really my fault that I always liked maths and physics

Jimdagym

CiniO wrote: »

I'm just a bit scientific mind, and that's funny for me. It's not really my fault that I always liked maths and physics

I actually remember you mentioning before that you were unhappy about the k.p.h. phrasing on road signs. It must be one of your bugbears.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

Whoever put up that sing, is a master for me

We all make mistakes.

Morpork

Just got back from Clarehall shopping center and read this thread. I was also laughing at the 5kph sign in there.
http://goo.gl/maps/18vpp

Why not 15kph? It's reasonable for a car park / apartment block and it ends in 5.

CiniO

Jimdagym wrote: »

I actually remember you mentioning before that you were unhappy about the k.p.h. phrasing on road signs. It must be one of your bugbears.

On road signs it's always correct - km/h. The same in all official publications. I'm happy with that.
It's the boards.ie and newspapers where kph, kmph, kmh, km/ph, and similar typographical monsters are used

sdanseo

The ONLY legal speed limit signs are 30, 50, 60, 80, 100 and 120 km/h. Nothing else is a legal limit.

On private property, it could in theory be part of the terms and conditions of entry that you comply with their silly speed limits - but you most certainly can't get fines or points for it unless you drive in a way that could be legally construed as dangerous or without due care in a public place. Note that a public place, however, is anywhere the public have access to - not just public property.

goz83

It's certainly possible to be issued with a fine, although it's unlikely. If entering the grounds, it is possible to be agreeing to the terms and conditions of entering those grounds (speed limits). By breaking the rules, it could be enforceable, particularly on anyone resident in the grounds. But I do agree that it's more to cover their own asses for health and safety reasons.

Thoie

No, you can not be done for speeding in this area for travelling at more than 5km/h.

These kinds of signs have been around since old gods' time - most normal people take them as an indication that caution is needed in the area, whether for reasons of children around the place, or heavy machinery, or an unusually high number of pedestrians.

goz83

If my dog takes a dump in one of these areas, can I get away with it?