Pro choice-time for a coherent lobby group?

lazygal

I'm aware there's another thread on the current ad campaign, and its got me thinking that there might be a need for the pro choice lobby to start mobilizing as a coherent group. I hate that the abortion debate is so often dominated by the likes of Youth Defence and other religious-based groups, who tend to shout loudest and claim a lot of support for their views. I don't advocate an 'if you can't beat them, join them' approach, but maybe a coherent, well organised and focused pro choice lobby group could be established to give a voice to those who's views are often drowned out by the 'other side'. Am I mad to think this or would it be worth considering?

Morag

It's started.

The Irish Choice Network has been set up to connect pro choice groups and pro choice people so that they can co ordinate and communicate to make sure pro choice voices are heard and pro choice people know they aren't alone and there are ways to get involved.

https://www.facebook.com/IrishChoiceNetwork
https://twitter.com/IrishChoiceNet
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/103499200601550354933/

There is a day for workshoping action groups and putting together a campagin on the Saturday the 28th of July.

The actions range from a Pro choice billboards, to lobby groups, to protests, to writing articles for the media ect.

Come and get involved.

Piste

I think one of the problems with having a cohesive pro-choice lobby is that across the pro-choice movement views are very divergence. Whereas the pro-life movement believes the right to life of a foetus supercedes the right to bodily autonomy of the woman and that's the end of that, people who are pro-choice can believe in allowing abortion only in cases of rape, only if the foetus can't survive outside the womb, only if the woman's life is in danger or for any reason the woman wants. It's because of the divergence in opinion of what exactly "pro-choice" means and what limits should be placed on it that there's a barrier to people who are pro-choice lobbying as one voice.

Kooli

I've been following this lot on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/notalwaysabetteroption

They're more a response to Youth Defence than a general coordinated Pro-Choice network, but my eyes have been opened as to how strong and loud and coordinated the anti-choice lobbyists are (I won't dignify them with the name 'pro-life').
Any time there is a media response to the choice debate, be it an article, an interview, a debate, the comments section/phone lines are flooded with anti-choicers. I don't believe that they are the majority, but they make themselves appear to be by being louder and more organised.

The FB group mentioned above regularly link to radio shows, newspaper articles etc, and encourage people to join in the debate, leave comments etc, to provide a reasoned alternative voice, but it's hard to drown out the crazies. I realise that using the term 'the crazies' is probably disrespectful and not reasoned, but I find it hard to respect these people - not what they believe, but how they speak about what they believe. They are often cruel, they often lie, and they are outright fundamentalists.

NotForResale

Piste wrote: »

people who are pro-choice can believe in allowing abortion only in cases of rape

If you only believe in it in circumstances such as this, you are not really pro-life or pro-choice as you are basing your decision to allow an abortion only in circumstances where the child was conceived via a method you do not approve of.

Then it is not longer about life but about forcing other women who had sex consensually to go through with an unwanted pregnancy. That is not pro choice.

lazygal

Piste wrote: »

I think one of the problems with having a cohesive pro-choice lobby is that across the pro-choice movement views are very divergence. Whereas the pro-life movement believes the right to life of a foetus supercedes the right to bodily autonomy of the woman and that's the end of that, people who are pro-choice can believe in allowing abortion only in cases of rape, only if the foetus can't survive outside the womb, only if the woman's life is in danger or for any reason the woman wants. It's because of the divergence in opinion of what exactly "pro-choice" means and what limits should be placed on it that there's a barrier to people who are pro-choice lobbying as one voice.

That's very true. But I think if those who favour choice want to change the law, there's far more to be gained by taking a coherent stance. The anti abortion lobby is really consistent, stays on message and is 100% clear on what it wants, which makes it an incredibly effective campaign group. If people want to change the law to allow for abortion, I think the current disparate nature of many lobby groups is the best weapon the anti abortion lobby has as it can divide and conquer with great ease.

Kooli

NotForResale wrote: »

If you only believe in it in circumstances such as this, you are not really pro-life or pro-choice as you are basing your decision to allow an abortion only in circumstances where the child was conceived via a method you do not approve of.

Then it is not longer about life but about forcing other women who had sex consensually to go through with an unwanted pregnancy. That is not pro choice.

I have to say I completely agree with this, but I think that as a pro-choicer there's always a fear of losing any support on our side, even if it's the half-assed judgemental pro-choice stance of those that want to grant abortion in exceptional circumstances only.

lazygal

NotForResale wrote: »

If you only believe in it in circumstances such as this, you are not really pro-life or pro-choice as you are basing your decision to allow an abortion only in circumstances where the child was conceived via a method you do not approve of.

Then it is not longer about life but about forcing other women who had sex consensually to go through with an unwanted pregnancy. That is not pro choice.

You know, I don't like this 'good abortion, bad abortion' approach either. It's like one woman 'deserves' an abortion more than another. And given how incredibly difficult it is to prosecute rape and sexual assault offenses and the tight time limits to gather forensic evidence etc, how is would such a law even be practicable? How on earth could a doctor confidently sign off on an abortion for one woman who showed obvious physical signs of rape whereas another showed none, bar her own story of what happened?

Ickle Magoo

NotForResale wrote: »

If you only believe in it in circumstances such as this, you are not really pro-life or pro-choice as you are basing your decision to allow an abortion only in circumstances where the child was conceived via a method you do not approve of.

Then it is not longer about life but about forcing other women who had sex consensually to go through with an unwanted pregnancy. That is not pro choice.

That's true - but on the other hand, most who are pro-choice have a limit to their acceptance, ie there are very few arguing for the right to abort up to 30+wks gestation.

Morag

Kooli wrote: »

I've been following this lot on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/notalwaysabetteroption

They're more a response to Youth Defence than a general coordinated Pro-Choice network, but my eyes have been opened as to how strong and loud and coordinated the anti-choice lobbyists are (I won't dignify them with the name 'pro-life').
Any time there is a media response to the choice debate, be it an article, an interview, a debate, the comments section/phone lines are flooded with anti-choicers. I don't believe that they are the majority, but they make themselves appear to be by being louder and more organised.

The FB group mentioned above regularly link to radio shows, newspaper articles etc, and encourage people to join in the debate, leave comments etc, to provide a reasoned alternative voice, but it's hard to drown out the crazies. I realise that using the term 'the crazies' is probably disrespectful and not reasoned, but I find it hard to respect these people - not what they believe, but how they speak about what they believe. They are often cruel, they often lie, and they are outright fundamentalists.

They have done great work, they are two young women who decided to get active and have achieved so much in a few short week. Both of them have also gotten involved with Irish Choice Network, but will keep doing their own thing. There are so many people doing great work also over the country the ICN is just away of connecting them and shining a spotlight on the work they are many others are doing to support them.

Kooli

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

That's true - but on the other hand, most who are pro-choice have a limit to their acceptance, ie there are very few arguing for the right to abort up to 30+wks gestation.

Very true, but I think there's a different feel to it when people are judging based on the morality of the mother.
Rape/incest = good abortion
Drunken one night stand = bad abortion
Woman in committed relationship = bad abortion etc. etc.

christmas2012

okay what if they were in a long term relationship and there was bad genes on one side where the child could end up with downs or schizo or something along those lines what then?

Mod

Banned

NotForResale

christmas2012 wrote: »

okay what if they were in a long term relationship and there was bad genes on one side where the child could end up with downs or schizo or something along those lines what then?

Mod

Banned

christmas2012 do you have a point?

Dolbert

NotForResale wrote: »

christmas2012 do you have a point?

She's been banned so won't be able to respond.

NotForResale

I should have copped that.

Morag

The Irish Choice Network's website is up and running.

http://irishchoicenetwork.weebly.com

It has the detail of the Pro Choice Open planning Day on it.

Pro choice Open Planning Day, 28th Sptember 2012

Start time: 12pm/noon

The Venue: The ground floor of Seomra Spraoi is a wheelchair accessible space.

Directions: Walk north along Gardiner St, past Mountjoy Square and turn right at the next laneway (Belvedere Court). Seomra Spraoi is about halfway down the lane on the right hand side (number ten).

Food: Vegan lunch will be available at a reasonable price on the day, if you wish to bring your own lunch feel free to do so.


What to bring: Yourself, your thinking cap, a pen, some paper, a bottle of water.

Donation:

A minimum donation of €3 to €5 will be expected (unwaged / waged) on registration to cover the costs of the space. If you can’t cover the cost, let us know. Money will not be a barrier to participation.


Safer space:

This is not a space to debate or discuss pro choice versus pro life.
There is a code of conduct for the day, please abide by it.
Facilitators will do their best to ensure you have a good day, but please let us know if something is not working for you.



Workshops & Facilitators
The purpose of the day is for pro choice people to meet each other, share ideas and most importantly to organise. The role of the facilitator is to try support focussed discussion and to promote decisions in each workshop around planning and next steps.

There are still places available for this and there is child minding on site as well if needed. To book a place contact irishchoicenetwork@gmail.com.