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Today's infrastructure announcement - why no public transport?
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Of course if I was really been biased I would have said the whole "stimulus" should have been put into Nets&Comms + Smart metering. After all it's reckoned that you could basically do FTTH (Fibre to the Home) for 90% of premises in the country for about €1.5 billion, throw in Smart Meter/Water meter and you'd definetly end up with good results down the road (1Gbit/s internet anyone?), would definitely help with the telecommuting that's for sure.
That's not being "biased" it's thinking how the state should be thinking!
But if they cared about it there would have been a plan in place.however obviously it will be purchasing large quantity of road materials sourced in Ireland such as Sand, Asphalt, Concrete, gravel etc.
Same would have happened with BRT or rail.Is the state purchasing Cars in this capital program?Can you point to where in the plan the state is buying cars?
Oh, come off it. Whether it's the state or end user, both public transport and private vehicles are imported.Sponge Bob wrote: »McCarthy is a public front for the Dept of Finance and about as 'independent ' as the Republic of Laois.
I'm by no means saying he's always right, in fact I disagree with him often -- that does not mean he cannot be right at times.0 -
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CIE buying lots of new trains since 2004 and then laying up the 14 year old 2700 class railcars this year (with a view to selling them as surplus stock) as they are now overtrained would not help either.
CIE basically had no shovel ready plan that would deliver something useful and in the low €100s of m range. Be that BRT/Train or whatever.0 -
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Spend massive sums, gain zero capacity in the network. Fantastic use of stimulus money.
You get capacity by having buses moving faster and more efficiently, with less stops, more priority, and no driver cash/card interaction. I covered the reasoning in my last post.Funny how your posting history suggests the only road 'upgrades' you favour are ones that make car (and indeed truck and van) usage difficult to impossible, then.
I'm on trial now am I?
I'm concerned about the best ways to move people around - and you seem overly concerned about keeping people in cars?Experience from building large amounts of abject failures (2+1 roads, underspec bypasses, etc). Unless you *want* the first few BRT lines built to be useless, of course. Even better use of stimulus money, badly designed and zero capacity gain, eh.
The NTA, their now internal QBN officer or what every they call them now, and the RPA/NRA combined should know enough to make it at least slightly better than useless.Interim measure until money arrives from where, exactly?
Until buses are replaces naturally as part of their life cycle. But that's not the only option - you could spend some money on a few dirty foreign buses.There was no public transport in the plan because there is no short term gains to be made by pouring state money to foreign interests. That is unarguable.
Possible short-term gains from BRT are around the same as roads in general -- the gains from job rich construction and spending on equipment and supplies.
Short- to mid-term gains could include a more efficiently transport system, and things like cycling and walking improvements -- one street improvement I seen in Denmark included BRT, wider cycle paths, wider footpaths, and extra spaces for cafes and food outlets to put tables on.0 -
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You get capacity by having buses moving faster and more efficiently, with less stops, more priority, and no driver cash/card interaction. I covered the reasoning in my last post.
A few fractional gains, most of which can be done without BRT. Still a collosal waste of money. And gained by thrashing already heavily worked buses not designed for the use you want even more heavily.
I'm suggesting, among other things, a reworking of streets and roads to give buses strong proirty (and improve this for walking and cycling at the same time) and you're suggesting this will only amount to "few fractional gains, most of which can be done without BRT".
I'll get my coat!The NTA, their now internal QBN officer or what every they call them now, and the RPA/NRA combined know enough to make it at least slightly better than useless.
I seriously doubt it. The first BRT in Ireland, if one is ever deployed, is guaranteed to either be a failure or cost insane sums of money as expertise is bought in from four corners of the globe.
Sure, grand! We'll never do anything new! Will will to keep you happy!
I never suggested that we should never spend on imports (but rather there were options to limit that spend or spread it over time, if needed). Both private and public transport rely partly on imports -- we have been down this road already and I will have to contuine to agree to disagree.
And it's fine if you're appalled by my suggestion!Possible short-term gains from BRT are around the same as roads in general -- the gains from job rich construction and spending on equipment and supplies.
But without the efficiencies that everything else in the plan will deliver, seeing as you're proposing BRT with effectively no capacity increases...
One second I'm going to overwork buses and also import dirty things from people in far away lands, and then the next we're back to the idea that there would be "effectively no capacity increases"?!
Now even I'm appalled!I would have been appalled if there were any unworkable with current equipment public transport infrastructure or vehicle purchase elements to a stimulus plan. They have absolutely nothing going for them in terms of economic stimulus.
Where I said "equipment and supplies" I mean construction equipment and supplies.0 -
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You were suggesting full scale BRT lines a few posts ago....
BRT isn't one thing or one level of service, it is and should be adapted to each city, each route, and what's realistic.Now you're suggesting something that at least matches the uselessness of using existing buses for BRT
I've already went into detail on why even with current buses, as an interim measure, the improvements would be substantial.Piddling around with a few streets
If that's what you call massively changing streets. Bus lanes to date have mostly just been piddling around, I'm talking massively reworking streets and roads.removing access for other vehicles (how do you propose that lovely new street-area'd cafe gets its food in?)
How do other cities survive?! :eek: ...It did not take long for the straw man arguments to come out. Did it?
On a more serious note: Access would have to be carefully planned and doing BRT routes decently would included looking at far more streets than where the buses go -- if access and loading does not fit you can do one or the other or both on side or other nearby street.Pouring cash out of the country to get extra buses would, but we're not in a situation to do that. Even if the bus fairy dropped them on the doorstep we can't afford the drivers for them.
One of the main reasons for doing BRT which I have not mentioned is that compared to Dublin Bus, it should be run with an operating profit. The service should pay for the drivers.0 -
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I've already went into detail on why even with current buses, as an interim measure, the improvements would be substantial.
...most of which can (and should) be done without any need for BRT. They wouldn't be substantial improvements regardless, but when you strip out the few that actually need BRT works, its close to nothing without entirely new vehicles.How do other cities survive?! :eek: ...It did not take long for the straw man arguments to come out. Did it?
By having a far better road network to begin with. Crying "straw man" when a major problem is pointed out isn't a good debating tactic.On a more serious note: Access would have to be carefully planned and doing BRT routes decently would included looking at far more streets than where the buses go -- if access and loading does not fit you can do one or the other or both on side or other nearby street.
Take a look at a map of Dublin. Realise your idea isn't going to work. We don't have streets wide enough or with "nearby" areas for loading in anywhere where this kind of provision would be any use. Businesses in the limited pedestrianised areas already have serious trouble with loading access, particularly smaller ones in constrained buildings - which we have quite a lot of.
On-street BRT in suburbs is ridiculous to the level that I do hope you'd not even try and suggest it; what you are suggesting is a city centre only solution for a planned city centre - not one like Dublin.One of the main reasons for doing BRT which I have not mentioned is that compared to Dublin Bus, it should be run with an operating profit. The service should pay for the drivers.
And yet you want it to be run with existing DB vehicles...
Did you actually think this through before suggesting it, or are you just annoyed that some private motorists are going to benefit from this plan, and Dublin cyclists aren't?0
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