Current state of cork underage hurling

fresher1

I'm curious to know the public's opinion on the current set up in the underage cork teams and if anyone can see a light at the end of the tunnel?

WumBuster

I think the other counties Clare, Waterford & Limerick have stepped up to the mark previously set by Cork & Tipp at minor and u-21.

HigginsJ

fresher1 wrote: »

I'm curious to know the public's opinion on the current set up in the underage cork teams and if anyone can see a light at the end of the tunnel?

Are Cork struggling badly at underage? Their senior team has a few good young players and if Aidan Walsh hadn't togged off for the footballers they'd be even better.

They lost that epic u21 Munster final to Limerick last year. Not sure how their minors are doing but I wouldnt be too worried. All your looking for from underage team is 2/3 guys who can make the step up.

willietherock

The last two Cork minor hurling sides have been the worst in living memory. Overall, they are light yrs behind the other counties in terms of development squads, schools of excellence, Harty Cup secondary schools hurling. Can't see any great progress until you know who moves on.

Mountainlad

Cork people exaggerate the problem. It doesn't matter a damn how many undergae all irelands they win, the fact that the County is so big means they'll always produce players. And when you look at the likes of Darren Sweetnam, Jamie Coughlan, Conor Lehane and Damine Cahalane who have come of supposedly 'the worst Cork underage teams in living memory' than you'll understand what I mean. Add that to the fact that they have Luke O'Farrell, William Egan who were on last years u 21 team, and then Cian McCarthy and Lorcan McLoughlin who were underage the year before, they have a wealth of young players coming through and the recent resurregance is no suprise.

Cork people just like complaining about Frank Murphy incessantly.

ShamoBuc

Mountainlad wrote: »

Cork people just like complaining about Frank Murphy incessantly.

We have years of experience alright!

Cork's underage structure is certainly not the best but despite this, a number of young players have not only broken into the senior squad but the first 15 - and are there on merit. This is far more important than winning trophies at underage level - although having both would obviously be better.

Roger Sterling

Its a bit of a myth that you need to be regularly winning underage All irelands to keep competitive at senior level IMHO. The obvious example is Galway who have reams on minor AI's but nothing achieved at senior level in over two decades. As long as you can produce 2 or 3 quality youngsters every few years you can keep it going. And in counties like Cork, KK and Tipp, the game is so popular and widespread and the populations so large that you will definitely get a steady stream of new players even if the underage teams as a whole aren't always up to scratch. Even in Waterford, despite everyone bleating on about the squad getting older and despite not having any huge underage success ona consistent basis you've seen a rake of quality young hurlers emerging each year, with some even better ones ready to come through in the next year or two.

For what its worth i think Munster is extremely competitive these last few years and you couldnt judge Cork on their failure to win any provincial trophy underage. It would help greatly to win something but how many of the current Kerry senior football team have minor medals in fairness or how many of the the Galway team have Senior all ireland medals? If Cork can produce the likes of Sweetnam, O'Farrell, Cahalane, Aidan Walsh etc i think they'll be ok somehow. Dont forget alot of the Limerick team have only won 1 Munster under 21 and after tonight many wont win anything else at underage however could potentially win alot at senior the next few years.

yohan the great

Its easy to get carried away with these things. Corks last three u21 teams have been really unlucky. In 2010 they were desperately unlucky to lose after extra time to one of the best u21 teams of all time who went onto win the all ireland easily. Last year they should have bet limerick in the munster final and this year they could easily be in a munster final. The game they played tipp in this year was a 50:50 game and could have went either way

willietherock

Mountainlad wrote: »

Cork people exaggerate the problem. It doesn't matter a damn how many undergae all irelands they win, the fact that the County is so big means they'll always produce players. And when you look at the likes of Darren Sweetnam, Jamie Coughlan, Conor Lehane and Damine Cahalane who have come of supposedly 'the worst Cork underage teams in living memory' than you'll understand what I mean. Add that to the fact that they have Luke O'Farrell, William Egan who were on last years u 21 team, and then Cian McCarthy and Lorcan McLoughlin who were underage the year before, they have a wealth of young players coming through and the recent resurregance is no suprise.

Cork people just like complaining about Frank Murphy incessantly.

Exaggerate? 15 yrs without an All U21 final appearence? 10 yrs+ without an All minor title? We are not Waterford, one provincial underage title in living memory, we do actually have some standards and expectation down here.
As for the strange comment about producing players? Its about producing quality and off the long list of players coming through they are all struggling to make to mark at senior with exception of Lehane and O'Farrell.

Mountainlad

yohan the great wrote: »

Its easy to get carried away with these things. Corks last three u21 teams have been really unlucky. In 2010 they were desperately unlucky to lose after extra time to one of the best u21 teams of all time who went onto win the all ireland easily. Last year they should have bet limerick in the munster final and this year they could easily be in a munster final. The game they played tipp in this year was a 50:50 game and could have went either way

Willietherock, please read. The Tipp Senior team that won the all-ireland included 9 players from that team that all played some part in the final. And yet Tipp were fortunate to force extra time, a last minute 21 goaled by Seamus Hennessy.

willietherock wrote: »

Exaggerate? 15 yrs without an All U21 final appearence? 10 yrs+ without an All minor title? We are not Waterford, one provincial underage title in living memory, we do actually have some standards and expectation down here.
As for the strange comment about producing players? Its about producing quality and off the long list of players coming through they are all struggling to make to mark at senior with exception of Lehane and O'Farrell.

Jesus wept. You're comments about Waterford was petty and stupid and just about sums up your entire argument that you would resort to a witless insult in an attempt to...actually I dunno what you were trying to achieve to be honest.

Sweetnam is 19. Coughlan is also 19, or maybe 20. Cahalane is what, 19 or is he also 20? Lorcan McLoughlin played pretty well against Tipp. Cian McCarthy is only back from injury. Egan is a bit of a rough diamond, but undoubtedly talented.

That you would offer such little suppoort for a group so young and with such great potential just to try and salvage an ill-advised initial argument sums up your support for your County, which is questionable a best.

And don't come back to me and tell you've attended all the games for 30 years, far more to supporting a team than that.

willietherock

Mountainlad wrote: »

Cork people exaggerate the problem. It doesn't matter a damn how many undergae all irelands they win, the fact that the County is so big means they'll always produce players. And when you look at the likes of Darren Sweetnam, Jamie Coughlan, Conor Lehane and Damine Cahalane who have come of supposedly 'the worst Cork underage teams in living memory' than you'll understand what I mean. Add that to the fact that they have Luke O'Farrell, William Egan who were on last years u 21 team, and then Cian McCarthy and Lorcan McLoughlin who were underage the year before, they have a wealth of young players coming through and the recent resurregance is no suprise.

Cork people just like complaining about Frank Murphy incessantly.

Dear Oh dear. And how many of those actually played with the last two Cork minor sides?

Mountainlad

willietherock wrote: »

Dear Oh dear. And how many of those actually played with the last two Cork minor sides?

Sorry wasn't including this year, don't think it's fair given they're all still minors. They have all come off the the 2010 and 2011 minor teams.

I dunno how that detracts from any point I have made though.

WumBuster

I dont think winning AI minor and u21 is the be all and end all as long as you are producing a reasonable quality of players each year from the teams. I think its great for the game that Clare, Limerick and Waterford are now producing stong, competitive underage sides in competitions that were pretty much a duopoly between Cork and Tipp for the past few decades.The next decade should prove very interesting and if for example the Clare U21 team we saw tonight team can reproduce that at senior level in years to come, well its an exciting prospect that there could be a sea change from the the usual Cork, Tipp, KK order.

Obviously this is not so from a Cork point of view, I have strong Cork connections myself and ive seen at first hand how seriously they take their hurling in rural communities and so on i but Ive no doubt they will keep producing enough good players to remain a force but not dominant as before. The young lads in their team at the moment seem decent enough but not as good as previous generations. So I would say winning an AI in the next few years with them being Cork is far from impossible, but it could prove difficult, depending on what other teams do.

Straight Talker

In my opinion the hurling talent is there in Cork but the structures aren't there to make the most of it.The managers for our underage teams are selected based on politics and agendas rather than hurling reasons.This years manager of the minors Kennealy is a county board yes man who shouldn't have been given the job.Ger Fitz the u21 manager is another yes man.Both these men are poor coaches but they are rewarded these positions by the county board for their patronage.Good hurling men like Eddie Murphy and the development squad coaches should be given these jobs but their not part of the county boards inner circle.

Henno30

No mystery to what has happened in Cork. Clare, Waterford, and Tipp have all upped their game massively in terms of their development squad structures, and Cork haven't bothered. Having seen the operation of these structures in a number of these counties, I can say that in Cork the development squad system exists in name only. The coaching is nowhere near as good because they haven't been formally qualified through the systems Paudie Butler put in place, and the squad selections are a farce.

Cork's natural level is where Kilkenny are at. It goes to show how far they've fallen that they point to narrow defeats as evidence of them being ok. The cold hard truth is that Cork have won just a single minor and a single U21 game of note in the last four years. I'm not sure what Ring, Barry, et al. would make of it.

A lot of people in Cork recognise the fact that their stagnant, out-of-touch board has a lot to do with it but the board is not for shifting. In a way it's a blessing for everyone else because if Cork were developing their young talent in a manner akin to their Munster rivals they would be extremely hard to compete with. Doesn't look like turning around anytime soon though.

Orizio

HigginsJ wrote: »

Are Cork struggling badly at underage? Their senior team has a few good young players and if Aidan Walsh hadn't togged off for the footballers they'd be even better.

They lost that epic u21 Munster final to Limerick last year. Not sure how their minors are doing but I wouldnt be too worried. All your looking for from underage team is 2/3 guys who can make the step up.

Cork have consistently been the 5th team in Munster hurling over the past five years, and I would consider our young players that are going into to senior to be inferior to those in Limerick, Tipp, Waterford, Clare, Dublin, KK and Galway. I was actually going through the prospects coming through outside of the senior squad currently with my brother last week and it was depressing. The definition of 'slim pickings', maybe two decent defenders coming through, a decent forward and half a dozen long shots. The problems are fourfold, imo...

(a) Development Squads: Cork was the last established county to put a development squad system in place - the likes of Kilkenny, Dublin, even Laois were years ahead of us - and the system put in place was only put in place because of the strike and Croker forcing the CCB to sort out its underage. And the development squads are chronically underfunded - each squad gets a stipend of 5k a year, which is peanuts in comparison to what Dublin underage is working. Hell its peanuts in comparison to what some of the big clubs in Cork spend on their most talented underage teams. This is, I might add, the budget given to squads that are part of the most cash rich county board in the country - the idiots that run the GAA in this county actually believe having thousands upon thousands of euros sitting idly in the back is a good thing.

(b) Schools Hurling: The major problem imo. In the 80s/90s Cork hurling had four primary academies - the Mon, Farren, Midleton and Colmans - that ensured a large portion of the best young prospects in Cork hurling played to the business end of the Harty most years. Now, its a fluke for a Cork school to get far in the Harty - the Mon are pretty much gone, Farren is gone, Colmans lost a large part of their pick when they stopped taking in boarders, and Midleton have lost lads from senior clubs like Erins Own and Killeagh over the years. Colmans currently don't pick from a senior club, while Midleton have - by far - the strongest pick in Cork schools, but their pick is still smaller then DLS or Flannans, or ASR. Other schools, like Charleville, have tiny picks, or Chriost Ri, who are a little more football oriented.

Now, the reasons for this collapse are largely out of the hands of Cork GAA - very simply, a population explosion has meant a massive increase of schools, particularly in the city, so the hurling talent has spread all over the place. The Mon and Farren would have had the pick from the Northside, and some of the Southside, back in the day - now the Mon have the Na Piarsigh lads and little else.

However, the solution to this problem is very much in the hands of Cork GAA - amalgamations and a concentration of hurling talent, like Waterford, Limerick and Dublin have done. However, for whatever reason the people involved in the Cork schools are completely against this, and instead have decided to focus on improving individual schools. So we have 6 schools entering this year's Harty, none of which have a pick big enough to consistently get deep into the competition, bar the very odd year. Rather then pool talent into a couple of teams - a Cork City Colleges team for example - we are developing a culture of mediocrity, a load of young lads playing on mediocre uncompetitive teams.

(c) City hurling - related to the last point, albeit not as important as people say. Cork hurling's success were built on the back of city hurling's dominance, namely the Rockies, the Barrs and the Glen. These teams currently range from poor to average at a senior level, the Barrs aren't much good underage and seem to be as much of a football club as anything else. The Glen are awful underage afaik, while Bishopstown aren't much good either. The Rockies tbf are beating all around them at underage level while the likes of Na Piarsigh, Douglas, Mayfield and Brian Dillons are doing their best. However, other smaller city clubs like Delanys and Vincents seem to be close to extinction at an underage level.

Now, part of the problem as noted is the situation with schools hurling in the city. Maybe more importantly though the big three city clubs don't get the pick of the best country lads like they did in the 60s, and most importantly, a lot of people working in the city have moved to commuter towns like Carrigtwohill, Midleton, Bandon, Carrigaline etc - all teams very strong underage. In many ways this is unavoidable and very hard to stop, but again it is a dilution of the talent pool and another factor in creating a culture of mediocrity in Cork Hurling.

(d) Managers: The people we put in charge are far from the best Cork Hurling have to offer to our young lads. For example, the current Cork Hurling Minor manager dropped a lad from the panel because of his haircut, bullied a overweight player in front of the entire squad, walked on top of players in training to toughen them up and publicly announced after one defeat that if a lad has two poor games in a row he was just a bad player. This same person's only success was with Brogans 7-8 years ago when he trained an exceptional talented group of players to success - his work at club level since has more often then not been disastrous. So we have a lad like this in charge, instead of one of the many talented club coaches in Cork hurling, like Paul O'Connor, Keith Ricken, Seanie O'Brien, Eddie Murphy etc.

Anyway, to summarise, Cork Hurling won't be winning any All-Irelands for a very very long time.

Orizio

Mountainlad wrote: »

Cork people exaggerate the problem. It doesn't matter a damn how many undergae all irelands they win, the fact that the County is so big means they'll always produce players. And when you look at the likes of Darren Sweetnam, Jamie Coughlan, Conor Lehane and Damine Cahalane who have come of supposedly 'the worst Cork underage teams in living memory' than you'll understand what I mean. Add that to the fact that they have Luke O'Farrell, William Egan who were on last years u 21 team, and then Cian McCarthy and Lorcan McLoughlin who were underage the year before, they have a wealth of young players coming through and the recent resurregance is no suprise.

Cork people just like complaining about Frank Murphy incessantly.

Unsurprisingly, this post came from someone outside of Cork. Look at our 'success' over the past couple of decades and compare it to what we were doing 50 plus years ago, and get back to me.

And since when is the size of a county a good justification for not putting the same effort into underage as the smaller counties do? In fact, the size of Cork, and our complete failure at underage level, tells you how badly GAA in the county is being run. Fact is, if Cork underage was run properly, we would be a juggernaut in both codes.

And some - most - of the players you listed wouldn't get on the squads of our AI winning teams of the mid 00s. Cian McCarthy is the slowest Cork hurler I have ever seen and won't make it; McLoughlin's form is erratic and even when he is playing well he has no aggression, poor distribution and poor decision making; Sweetnam excels at about 4 other sports besides GAA and won't be with us for long; Egan's form is poor and right now he is too nice for an inter-county half-back; Coughlan has the body of a child; Cahalan has very little hurling and will attempt to go down the dual player route, which will hurt him; O'Farrell lost a lot of his main attribute, his pace, thanks to successive awful injuries and his goals against an awful Wexford defence make his look better then he is. Lehane is the best prospect we have, and I would say Clare, alone, have two better an younger prospects then him in Kelly and Galvin.

So yeah, awful clueless post.

Orizio

yohan the great wrote: »

Its easy to get carried away with these things. Corks last three u21 teams have been really unlucky. In 2010 they were desperately unlucky to lose after extra time to one of the best u21 teams of all time who went onto win the all ireland easily. Last year they should have bet limerick in the munster final and this year they could easily be in a munster final. The game they played tipp in this year was a 50:50 game and could have went either way

Very simply, good teams with good attributes win close games. 'Luck' is something made, and consistently losing close games is a very very dangerous habit. And none of those three teams would have gotten close to contesting an AI. This year's U-21 team was awful btw.

And we shouldn't have beaten Limerick last year, I've no idea where you got that idea from. Limerick were the better team.

Orizio

WumBuster wrote: »

I dont think winning AI minor and u21 is the be all and end all as long as you are producing a reasonable quality of players each year from the teams. I think its great for the game that Clare, Limerick and Waterford are now producing stong, competitive underage sides in competitions that were pretty much a duopoly between Cork and Tipp for the past few decades.The next decade should prove very interesting and if for example the Clare U21 team we saw tonight team can reproduce that at senior level in years to come, well its an exciting prospect that there could be a sea change from the the usual Cork, Tipp, KK order.

Obviously this is not so from a Cork point of view, I have strong Cork connections myself and ive seen at first hand how seriously they take their hurling in rural communities and so on i but Ive no doubt they will keep producing enough good players to remain a force but not dominant as before. The young lads in their team at the moment seem decent enough but not as good as previous generations. So I would say winning an AI in the next few years with them being Cork is far from impossible, but it could prove difficult, depending on what other teams do.

I'm afraid it doesn't work like this - winning underage AI's doesn't guarantee you senior AIs, but how many senior AI winning teams were made up of lads that couldn't even compete at a provincial level underage? Pretty much none. And Cork GAA is in the business of winning AIs, not being mediocre.

Mountainlad

Orizio wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, this post came from someone outside of Cork. Look at our 'success' over the past couple of decades and compare it to what we were doing 50 plus years ago, and get back to me.

And since when is the size of a county a good justification for not putting the same effort into underage as the smaller counties do? In fact, the size of Cork, and our complete failure at underage level, tells you how badly GAA in the county is being run. Fact is, if Cork underage was run properly, we would be a juggernaut in both codes.

And some - most - of the players you listed wouldn't get on the squads of our AI winning teams of the mid 00s. Cian McCarthy is the slowest Cork hurler I have ever seen and won't make it; McLoughlin's form is erratic and even when he is playing well he has no aggression, poor distribution and poor decision making; Sweetnam excels at about 4 other sports besides GAA and won't be with us for long; Egan's form is poor and right now he is too nice for an inter-county half-back; Coughlan has the body of a child; Cahalan has very little hurling and will attempt to go down the dual player route, which will hurt him; O'Farrell lost a lot of his main attribute, his pace, thanks to successive awful injuries and his goals against an awful Wexford defence make his look better then he is. Lehane is the best prospect we have, and I would say Clare, alone, have two better an younger prospects then him in Kelly and Galvin.

So yeah, awful clueless post.

When did I say that it was a justification for their teams under performing?

Cork should be performing better than they are at underage, but I don't for a second believe it has as big a bearing on their Senior team as a harpinger of doom such as yourself would.

Can I ask what your pre-season expectations were?

A lot of criticism being dished out to young players here, and have to say most of it is premature too. When you look at how close this Cork team game to beating Tipp with all these 'average' players you mention, I think your a bit deluded in writing them off.

Cork, with the size of their County, should in reality be competing for All-Irelands year in year out but they have been poor since 2006.

That said, if you're telling me it will be a long time before they challenge for all-irelands again you're going to end up with egg on your face, possibly before the end of the year though probably not.

Orizio

We 'nearly' beat a Tipp side at home, who played with 14 men for a large part of the game, who were short Lar Corbett and had Bonnar Maher far from 100% fit. And lets be honest, that Tipp side isn't as exceptional as it was under Sheedy, and their full-back line is there for the taking.

Anyway, the point is mediocrity and a complete lack of success at underage level is unacceptable for a county the size of Cork. Expectations might be different elsewhere, but in Cork, with the sheer amount of resources we have, the history and tradition we have, we should be competing for AIs in both codes the majority of the time. That is where we should be aiming, that is our potential level, and we are miles off it.

And I didn't 'write' anyone off bar Cian McCarthy, who is just too slow for the modern game.

Orizio

Mountainlad wrote: »

That said, if you're telling me it will be a long time before they challenge for all-irelands again you're going to end up with egg on your face, possibly before the end of the year though probably not.

Yep, that is what I am saying. And by competing I mean getting into finals, because lets be honest, with the system we have and the amount of competitive teams we have, a mediocre side with a little luck can end up in a AI semi easy enough. Its happened plenty.

Mountainlad

Orizio wrote: »

Yep, that is what I am saying. And by competing I mean getting into finals, because lets be honest, with the system we have and the amount of competitive teams we have, a mediocre side with a little luck can end up in a AI semi easy enough. Its happened plenty.

They could easily end up in a final this year, if they are beaten by Waterford or Galway then it won't be by much.

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

We 'nearly' beat a Tipp side at home, who played with 14 men for a large part of the game, who were short Lar Corbett and had Bonnar Maher far from 100% fit. And lets be honest, that Tipp side isn't as exceptional as it was under Sheedy, and their full-back line is there for the taking.

20 mins is now a large part of the game?

Bonner was 100% fit I would have taught he's complete anihalation of Cadogan was proof enough of this!

Mickey Cahill, Conor O'Brien and Paul Curran looked fairly capable to me in the munster final and have a few all stars between them, stop believing everything you read in the examiner

Orizio

premierstone wrote: »

20 mins is now a large part of the game?

Bonner was 100% fit I would have taught he's complete anihalation of Cadogan was proof enough of this!

Mickey Cahill, Conor O'Brien and Paul Curran looked fairly capable to me in the munster final and have a few all stars between them, stop believing everything you read in the examiner

...is there really a purpose to this post?

Orizio

Mountainlad wrote: »

They could easily end up in a final this year, if they are beaten by Waterford or Galway then it won't be by much.

Galway will destroy us, if we get that far. Galway, KK and Tipp are operating in a different planet.

Mountainlad

Orizio wrote: »

Galway will destroy us, if we get that far. Galway, KK and Tipp are operating in a different planet.

You don't follow Galway much, do you?

I dunno how Tipp are operating in a different planet either. Better than the other 3 teams yes, and better than Galway, but not unbeatable all the same even if they don't get beaten much. And I'll hold off saying anything about Kilkenny till I see how they deal with Limerick.

Orizio

Mountainlad wrote: »

You don't follow Galway much, do you?

No mate, I only started following GAA about three hours ago.

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

...is there really a purpose to this post?

To highlight that you were talking rubbish, I thought that would have been obvious, I obviously have given you too much credit :rolleyes:

Straight Talker

Orizio wrote: »

Galway will destroy us, if we get that far. Galway, KK and Tipp are operating in a different planet.

Stall the beans there biy!If we beat Waterford we'll beat Galway.All the pressure will be on Galway and we all know how well Galway handle pressure.They would be also playing a Cork/Waterford team with momentum and we owe Galway a beating.Of course we also owe the noisy neighbours from over the Youghal bridge one as well!I think our underage problems are due to agendas and bad structures as opposed to a lack of talent.I would be hopeful that we can be back winning all irelands within 5-6 years.Guys like William Egan Darren Sweetnam Conor Lehane Cian McCarthy Jamie Coughlan Luke O'Farrell and Stephen Moylan have shown encouraging signs this year while Pat Horgan and Paudie O'Sullivan are also stepping up to the plate.Im impressed with Lorcan McLoughlins workrate but he needs to bulk up and improve his distribution while Pa Cronin is now back in his best position.Im confident that these players are future all ireland winners for Cork and sure we might have Aidan Walsh and Ciaran Sheehan onboard next year!

Mountainlad

Orizio wrote: »

No mate, I only started following GAA about three hours ago.

That sarcasm isn't very endearing. Detracts from the point your trying to make.

You are giving Galway far too much credit, and not giving your own enough.

I get it though, your frustrated that the current Cork administration and Frank Murphy in particular are holding back developments in Cork. Exaggerating the quality of emerging Senior players, however, does not lend well to the point your making. In fact, it falsifies it to those who will have seen these players play in the league and championship this year and rate them quite highly.

Orizio

Straight Talker wrote: »

Stall the beans there biy!If we beat Waterford we'll beat Galway.All the pressure will be on Galway and we all know how well Galway handle pressure.They would be also playing a Cork/Waterford team with momentum and we owe Galway a beating.Of course we also owe the noisy neighbours from over the Youghal bridge one as well!I think our underage problems are due to agendas and bad structures as opposed to a lack of talent.I would be hopeful that we can be back winning all irelands within 5-6 years.Guys like William Egan Darren Sweetnam Conor Lehane Cian McCarthy Jamie Coughlan Luke O'Farrell and Stephen Moylan have shown encouraging signs this year while Pat Horgan and Paudie O'Sullivan are also stepping up to the plate.Im impressed with Lorcan McLoughlins workrate but he needs to bulk up and improve his distribution while Pa Cronin is now back in his best position.Im confident that these players are future all ireland winners for Cork and sure we might have Aidan Walsh and Ciaran Sheehan onboard next year!

Leaving aside what I've said about all of the lads listed, this Cork have a 'young' team and are 'rebuilding' thing is a red herring. Who doesn't have a young team right now? The more important question is who has the best young players coming into senior hurling, and the answer isn't Cork, not even close. And again, about half of the lads you've listed have a question mark over them regarding their inter-county suitability.

Orizio

Mountainlad wrote: »

That sarcasm isn't very endearing. Detracts from the point your trying to make.

You are giving Galway far too much credit, and not giving your own enough.

I get it though, your frustrated that the current Cork administration and Frank Murphy in particular are holding back developments in Cork. Exaggerating the quality of emerging Senior players, however, does not lend well to the point your making. In fact, it falsifies it to those who will have seen these players play in the league and championship this year and rate them quite highly.

I find it odd that you are criticising my sarcastic response to your sneery post. And by 'odd' I mean hypocritical.

Anyway, between the two of us, I've seen the players mentioned a huge amount more then you, so unless you have specific answers to the problems regarding the players in question - or for that matter my arguments regarding underage hurling in Cork - then I don't see the point in continuing this debate.

Orizio

premierstone wrote: »

To highlight that you were talking rubbish, I thought that would have been obvious, I obviously have given you too much credit :rolleyes:

Unless you have something to say about the state of underage hurling in Cork - as opposed to being a bad winner and/or following me around the forums for no apparent reason - it would be nice if you keep it moving. Cheers.

Mountainlad

Orizio wrote: »

I find it odd that you are criticising my sarcastic response to your sneery post. And by 'odd' I mean hypocritical.

Anyway, between the two of us, I've seen the players mentioned a huge amount more then you, so unless you have specific answers to the problems regarding the players in question - or for that matter my arguments regarding underage hurling in Cork - then I don't see the point in continuing this debate.

It would be hypocritical if I'd used sarcasm.

I don't see the 'sneery' side to my posting, and any sharpness in my posting was retaliation for 'pretty clueless post'.

I'm sure you have, wouldn't question it. How would you regard Cork's progress so far this year?

I'd accept that Tipp were down to 14 men, however the point about Bonner Maher doesn't stand up and isn't true. The way you addressed Lar Corbett was incorrect too, he played most of the game. If you had said he wasn't 100% sharp, then I'd have agreed.

I just think you're selling Cork short. Never thought I'd buy arguing Cork's merits to a Cork person!

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

Unless you have something to say about the state of underage hurling in Cork - as opposed to being a bad winner and/or following me around the forums for no apparent reason - it would be nice if you keep it moving. Cheers.

I was commenting on the Cork hurlers, you are too blind to see that :rolleyes: You have completely dismissed their performance against Tipp by claiming that Tipp were poor, I was merely pointing out that 3 of your 4 points were untrue/lies.

Cork have made huge strides this year, have already made a National final, ran the second best team in the country to a point, and have a real chance of making an AI final, off course they have weakness's but considering the starting point JBM has done fantastically.

Hope this clears it up for you and I apologise for making the assumption you had a basic grasp of the english language

deisedude

Orizio wrote: »

Unless you have something to say about the state of underage hurling in Cork - as opposed to being a bad winner and/or following me around the forums for no apparent reason - it would be nice if you keep it moving. Cheers.

<mod note>The condescending tone in your posts to other users is disrespectful, i would encourage you to cut it out. You can disagree with a poster without coming off all high and mighty.

DublinGAA96

deisedude wrote: »

Orizio wrote: »

Unless you have something to say about the state of underage hurling in Cork - as opposed to being a bad winner and/or following me around the forums for no apparent reason - it would be nice if you keep it moving. Cheers.

<mod note>The condescending tone in your posts to other users is disrespectful, i would encourage you to cut it out. You can disagree with a poster without coming off all high and mighty.

I agree. Some of the heated arguments and fights have me turned off commenting on some threads can we not just talk about GAA without scrapping all the time

Orizio

Mountainlad wrote: »

It would be hypocritical if I'd used sarcasm.

I don't see the 'sneery' side to my posting, and any sharpness in my posting was retaliation for 'pretty clueless post'.

I'm sure you have, wouldn't question it. How would you regard Cork's progress so far this year?

I'd accept that Tipp were down to 14 men, however the point about Bonner Maher doesn't stand up and isn't true. The way you addressed Lar Corbett was incorrect too, he played most of the game. If you had said he wasn't 100% sharp, then I'd have agreed.

I just think you're selling Cork short. Never thought I'd buy arguing Cork's merits to a Cork person!

I think Cork have progressed under JBM in a number of areas - I would say I'm very happy with everything bar some of the sideline's tactical naivety, although the lack of experience we have on the pitch may be to blame for that. The two main areas of improvement from the Walsh era are the bench - it is much much stronger now - and the fact that they are trying to get the lads playing in a particularly concerted way, and picking players to that effect.

However, the management is dealing with, imo, a mediocre enough bunch of hurlers that is a couple of years behind the other established counties in terms of conditioning. You don't win AIs at senior level picking from mediocre unsuccessful underage teams, so the management is always going to struggle. They are doing the right things though, far more so then the last management.

Orizio

deisedude wrote: »

<mod note>The condescending tone in your posts to other users is disrespectful, i would encourage you to cut it out. You can disagree with a poster without coming off all high and mighty.

Cheers mate.

Treble20

Well as a Cork fan there's definitely concern at the state of the underage game in the County at present and personally I think there needs to be work done at this level. However referring to the current Senior team a serious improvement has been made in 12 months and personally I'm quite happy with an All Ireland quarter final appearance and while they face a tough game against the Deise I'm sure under JBM Cork hurling can rise from the ashes again.

mccarthy37

Straight Talker wrote: »

Stall the beans there biy!If we beat Waterford we'll beat Galway.All the pressure will be on Galway and we all know how well Galway handle pressure.They would be also playing a Cork/Waterford team with momentum and we owe Galway a beating.Of course we also owe the noisy neighbours from over the Youghal bridge one as well!I think our underage problems are due to agendas and bad structures as opposed to a lack of talent.I would be hopeful that we can be back winning all irelands within 5-6 years.Guys like William Egan Darren Sweetnam Conor Lehane Cian McCarthy Jamie Coughlan Luke O'Farrell and Stephen Moylan have shown encouraging signs this year while Pat Horgan and Paudie O'Sullivan are also stepping up to the plate.Im impressed with Lorcan McLoughlins workrate but he needs to bulk up and improve his distribution while Pa Cronin is now back in his best position.Im confident that these players are future all ireland winners for Cork and sure we might have Aidan Walsh and Ciaran Sheehan onboard next year!

No we are very quite over here boy but good luck to you sure what hope have we with only Mullane playing badly.

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

You don't win AIs at senior level picking from mediocre unsuccessful underage teams, so the management is always going to struggle.

Kerry football would suggest otherwise, the reality is all you need is 2/3 players off any given minor/u-21 team to make the step up.

Orizio

premierstone wrote: »

Kerry football would suggest otherwise, the reality is all you need is 2/3 players off a good given minor/u-21 team to make the step up.

Fixed. And don't make me explain how much easier it is to be successful with less in football in comparison to hurling.

Orizio

Treble20 wrote: »

Well as a Cork fan there's definitely concern at the state of the underage game in the County at present and personally I think there needs to be work done at this level. However referring to the current Senior team a serious improvement has been made in 12 months and personally I'm quite happy with an All Ireland quarter final appearance and while they face a tough game against the Deise I'm sure under JBM Cork hurling can rise from the ashes again.

If we get a win against Waterford, and put up a decent performance against Galway it'll be an really excellent year.

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

Fixed. And don't make me explain how much easier it is to be successful with less in football in comparison to hurling.

So the last 10 minor teams in Kerry have been good have they?

As for the second part of your statement I'm afraid you are going to have to explain because it's not apparent to a mere mortal like me

premierstone

Orizio wrote: »

If we get a win against Waterford, and put up a decent performance against Galway it'll be an really excellent year.

This statement also makes no sense, if ye beat Waterford, which I suspect ye may very well do, IMO ye will be favourites against Galway, Galway have produced one performance in 22 months and are suddenly the real deal :rolleyes: They are proven chokers and their record as favourites is laughable, whoever wins against Waterford and Cork will be in the AI final IMO.

MfMan

premierstone wrote: »

This statement also makes no sense, if ye beat Waterford, which I suspect ye may very well do, IMO ye will be favourites against Galway, Galway have produced one performance in 22 months and are suddenly the real deal :rolleyes: They are proven chokers and their record as favourites is laughable, whoever wins against Waterford and Cork will be in the AI final IMO.

We'll hold you to this Yojimbo!!!

premierstone

MfMan wrote: »

We'll hold you to this Yojimbo!!!

Thats not a problem, no idea what the fcuk a yojimbo is though?? Some weird mattie terminology I assume.