Gambling/Odds threads

GreeBo

Following on from the last poll:

Do you want in thread gambling or a dedicated thread?

Gmpd

Is this not pretty much in a round about way the same poll? :S

PARlance

Gmpd wrote: »

Is this not pretty much in a round about way the same poll? :S

No, this would be the next step if first poll gets the Yes vote I presume.

Gmpd

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Gmpd wrote: »

Is this not pretty much in a round about way the same poll? :S

No, this would be the next step if first poll gets the Yes vote I presume.

Bit like the Lisbon treaty.. Sure just run it again only change the name?

mikeunt

why is this becoming an issue now
there has always been a thread for every event on both sides of the pond and posters say who they think will play well and if they have a few euros on them
what is the big deal
it seemed to work fine all along

charlieIRL

the first poll is to see should comments of gambling be allowed in the golf forum as well as the gambling form & the second is where to discuss it - two totally different topics.

Gmpd

charlieIRL wrote: »

the first poll is to see should comments of gambling be allowed in the golf forum as well as the gambling form & the second is where to discuss it - two totally different topics.

I see.. I stand corrected

Gmpd

charlieIRL wrote: »

the first poll is to see should comments of gambling be allowed in the golf forum as well as the gambling form & the second is where to discuss it - two totally different topics.

I see.. I stand corrected

charlieIRL

no worries.


heard ya the first time too!!!!:D

MP62

Without a third option of "I don't mind", this poll is meaningless.
We are all capable of making our own decisions regarding having a punt, what's with this notion of censorship all of a sudden, are the folks up stairs cracking the whip?.

soundsham

Hey what the feckis this Lisbon 2 a recount

redzerdrog

we dont need a seperate gambling thread just allow gambling talk in the normal threads as things were

GreeBo

MP62 wrote: »

Without a third option of "I don't mind", this poll is meaningless.
We are all capable of making our own decisions regarding having a punt, what's with this notion of censorship all of a sudden, are the folks up stairs cracking the whip?.

Censorship? Again with the conspiracy theories.
Its nothing to do with making decisions, its about whether or not these types of threads belong in a golf forum.

soundsham

Rarely enough are odds etc mentioned
Generally some of us have a small flutter on the majors
It's hardly a gateway to a life of out and out gambling

Keep the status quo

GreeBo

soundsham wrote: »

Rarely enough are odds etc mentioned
Generally some of us have a small flutter on the majors
It's hardly a gateway to a life of out and out gambling

Keep the status quo

I think lots of you are missing the point.
We couldnt care less about whether or not people are gambling on golf, its purely about whether or not these types of threads/posts should be in the golf forum or the gambling forum and if they should be in the golf forum should they have their own dedicated thread??

Seves Three Iron

I wouldn't have enough interest in golf gambling to go off to a specific thread looking for it but I do like when odds are included in general discussions like, Sergio is playing well and he's 40/1. My tuppence worth is that I thought it was fine as it was.

pistolpetes11

Dont see the harm in mentioning odds when talking about the golf , I think sports and betting go hand in hand these days

MP62

GreeBo wrote: »

Censorship? Again with the conspiracy theories.

In the normal world having a thread about the open championship with strict instructions not to refer to betting equates to censorship, but maybe in greenbo land it means something else.

Its nothing to do with making decisions, its about whether or not these types of threads belong in a golf forum

I don't see what the issue is, maybe you don't realise that in Ireland betting and sports go hand in hand, so if ain't broke then why are you trying to fix it.

irish bloke

This kinda seems like a Pole just to have a pole. There is plenty of rubbish spoken on all threads so what does it matter if odds are spoken too.
Whatever happened to freedom of speech?
If there not abusive posts, then what's the issue??

brick tamland

Probably impossible to police, and would give the mods no end of hassle. Just leave the way it was, it wasnt a problem imo

Dr.Silly

irish bloke wrote: »

This kinda seems like a Pole just to have a pole. There is plenty of rubbish spoken on all threads so what does it matter if odds are spoken too.
Whatever happened to freedom of speech?
If there not abusive posts, then what's the issue??

like I said .. it's such an overkill ..
over complicating things with absolutely no need.

super_furry

Really can't see the issue myself, it just seems needlessly fussy and divisive to split things up. Talk of odds is natural in threads where there is a major interest in an event, I honestly can't see how it's disruptive at all.

Restricting debate, especially when mentioning someone's odds is a great shorthand way to indicate their chances and form, is just daft.

GreeBo

irish bloke wrote: »

This kinda seems like a Pole just to have a pole. There is plenty of rubbish spoken on all threads so what does it matter if odds are spoken too.
Whatever happened to freedom of speech?
If there not abusive posts, then what's the issue??

I'm not sure what Polish people have to do with it, but if you want freedom of speech go to America, there is no freedom of speech on boards.ie. Its a business. Read the T&C's that you signed up to when you first joined.

The "issue" is about how we want the forum to run, it doesn't have to be abusive to be unwanted.

PARlance

Any sign of White Smoke?

bustercherry

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not sure what Polish people have to do with it, but if you want freedom of speech go to America, there is no freedom of speech on boards.ie. Its a business. Read the T&C's that you signed up to when you first joined.

The "issue" is about how we want the forum to run, it doesn't have to be abusive to be unwanted.

Is that we as in everyone? or we as in the mods and a select few.

Anyway I see normal service is restored in the open thread where bickering over certain golfers has started. I expect the McIroy nationality issue to pop up soon

This is how I see these threads going every tournament:
Posters start with talking about odds and players chances;
The tournament starts and people start commenting on the tournament and forget about betting;
The usual suspects fall out over certain players;
Someone has a dig about McIroy's nationality and receive a warning;
Someone posts about the imaginary player Rory McElroy;
Tiger gets slagged off;
Harrington get himself into contention and everyone posts about if he can deliver at the weekend;
Weekend comes and a few people start spending the money they might win from their bets;
Tiger gets slagged off again;
Harrington fails to deliver and we all the discuss the what might have been;
Someone wins a bet and posts about it;
We all move on to the next tournament.

As far as I see it, the discussion on the betting really only lasts until the tournament kicks off. Not a big deal to be fair as it only adds to the build up.

irish bloke

GreeBo wrote: »

irish bloke wrote: »

This kinda seems like a Pole just to have a pole. There is plenty of rubbish spoken on all threads so what does it matter if odds are spoken too.
Whatever happened to freedom of speech?
If there not abusive posts, then what's the issue??

I'm not sure what Polish people have to do with it, but if you want freedom of speech go to America, there is no freedom of speech on boards.ie. Its a business. Read the T&C's that you signed up to when you first joined.

The "issue" is about how we want the forum to run, it doesn't have to be abusive to be unwanted.

Nothing worse then when someone picks up on a spelling mistake in a debate, usually a sign of lower intelict and they are firmly on the back foot. This is not countdown right?
Now I know the above mentioned couldn't be true for this case, So Im willing to give the benefit of the doubt and just assume it was a rather average attempt at comedy..

Anyway, I think the "pole" results speak for themselves in that if you go down the line of policing this kind of harmless fun, you could end up with a lot of unnecessary work on your hands and a very derilict forum.

GreeBo

irish bloke wrote: »

Nothing worse then when someone picks up on a spelling mistake in a debate, usually a sign of lower intelict and they are firmly on the back foot. This is not countdown right?
Now I know the above mentioned couldn't be true for this case, So Im willing to give the benefit of the doubt and just assume it was a rather average attempt at comedy..

Anyway, I think the "pole" results speak for themselves in that if you go down the line of policing this kind of harmless fun, you could end up with a lot of unnecessary work on your hands and a very derilict forum.

Apologies, my phone has a habit of missing smileys.
As for unnecessary work, this forum already creates a lot of unnecessary work for mods and admins, I don't see this as adding to it.

irish bloke

GreeBo wrote: »

irish bloke wrote: »

Nothing worse then when someone picks up on a spelling mistake in a debate, usually a sign of lower intelict and they are firmly on the back foot. This is not countdown right?
Now I know the above mentioned couldn't be true for this case, So Im willing to give the benefit of the doubt and just assume it was a rather average attempt at comedy..

Anyway, I think the "pole" results speak for themselves in that if you go down the line of policing this kind of harmless fun, you could end up with a lot of unnecessary work on your hands and a very derilict forum.

Apologies, my phone has a habit of missing smileys.
As for unnecessary work, this forum already creates a lot of unnecessary work for mods and admins, I don't see this as adding to it.

No offence taken. I can't add smileys or other emotions on my phone either, maybe that's a better thing to be working on then this. (smiley).

I still think It would be unfair to punish someone for quoting odds on a sports forum as its generally a posters way of engaging in the thread, but on the flip side if it was constant it would annoy me too.

If you can find a medium, then good stuff. If not I say leave it as it is.

GreeBo

We are discussing the results of the two polls and will let you know when a final decision had been made.
Thx to all who voted.

technodub

This is becoming ridiculous i think people just like to have a moan and give out about something. If they have no interest in the gambling thats fair enough but separating the threads is ridiculous.... Some people like to read about the thoughts on the comp and the gambling..

FixdePitchmark

bustercherry wrote: »

Is that we as in everyone? or we as in the mods and a select few.

Anyway I see normal service is restored in the open thread where bickering over certain golfers has started. I expect the McIroy nationality issue to pop up soon

This is how I see these threads going every tournament:
Posters start with talking about odds and players chances;
The tournament starts and people start commenting on the tournament and forget about betting;
The usual suspects fall out over certain players;
Someone has a dig about McIroy's nationality and receive a warning;
Someone posts about the imaginary player Rory McElroy;
Tiger gets slagged off;
Harrington get himself into contention and everyone posts about if he can deliver at the weekend;
Weekend comes and a few people start spending the money they might win from their bets;
Tiger gets slagged off again;
Harrington fails to deliver and we all the discuss the what might have been;
Someone wins a bet and posts about it;
We all move on to the next tournament.

As far as I see it, the discussion on the betting really only lasts until the tournament kicks off. Not a big deal to be fair as it only adds to the build up.

Have to say, this post is class. As in - it all came true.

SnowDrifts

Right, now that the dust has settled on The Open, we now only have a few weeks until the last major of the year. I think it is about time this silly fiasco is settled.

I think the poll gives a fair representation of the views of the contributors to the forum. That combined with the other thread (the one with the undisclosed poll) where most posts were in agreement that betting posts should be allowed.

I understand boards.ie does not need to entertain the "freedom of speech" argument but where there are no legal or moral ramifications, ignoring the majority on what they want on their form smacks of dictatorship.

So looking forward... allow betting posts in threads. No need for a separate thread. As some users have highlighted, the majority of betting talk takes place before the event when there is not alot of golf to talk about but as soon as the event starts, the betting talk subsides and people come on here to talk about the golf.

GreeBo

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Right, now that the dust has settled on The Open, we now only have a few weeks until the last major of the year. I think it is about time this silly fiasco is settled.

:rolleyes:
Thanks for your input Oberführer!

SnowDrifts wrote: »

I think the poll gives a fair representation of the views of the contributors to the forum. That combined with the other thread (the one with the undisclosed poll) where most posts were in agreement that betting posts should be allowed.

I understand boards.ie does not need to entertain the "freedom of speech" argument but where there are no legal or moral ramifications, ignoring the majority on what they want on their form smacks of dictatorship.

So looking forward... allow betting posts in threads. No need for a separate thread. As some users have highlighted, the majority of betting talk takes place before the event when there is not alot of golf to talk about but as soon as the event starts, the betting talk subsides and people come on here to talk about the golf.

The moderators make decisions to facilitate the smooth running of this website and forum, its not a dictatorship, if it was we wouldnt have started the polls to gauge public opinion.

The moderators have decided that there will be a betting thread alongside any main event thread. This is not to say that its an offense to mention a bet in the main thread but the purpose of your post should not purely be around betting.
We had numerous examples in the Open thread of posts that were purely around peoples bets and odds. This is of no interest to a lot of posters and derails the thread (causing more work for moderators) so belongs either on the betting thread or in PM.
Any posts regarding people offering or taking bets to/with other posters belongs solely in PM. Failure to follow this rule will be an immediate 1 month ban.

These rules will be reflected in the Charter and will be enforced from now on.
Blatant attempts to ignore or circumvent this rule will lead to infractions and a banning.
Warnings will be given at the moderators discretion.
We want this forum to be as enjoyable as possible for everyone so please familiarise yourself with the forum charter if you have not already done so.

SnowDrifts

GreeBo wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Thanks for your input Oberführer!

Comments like this are not really helpful nor are they constructive.

I think your "decision" to have a separate thread is the wrong one and would appear to have gone against the grain of the forum contributors. Was a little bit pointless having a poll if the results were going to be ignored.

GreeBo

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Comments like this are not really helpful nor are they constructive.

I think your "decision" to have a separate thread is the wrong one and would appear to have gone against the grain of the forum contributors. Was a little bit pointless having a poll if the results were going to be ignored.

As constructive as "fiasco" mayhaps? :rolleyes:

You are entitled to your "decision"?, just as we are to ours.
1/3rd of the people who voted in this thread agreed with our decision. Thats enough of an reason for us. Its hardly a massive inconvenience to have to post in a different thread in the same forum.

If we didnt have the poll then there would be no betting at all allowed in here so I'm not sure how you see it as pointless, but again you are entitled to your "decision".

Also its interesting to note the significant drop in numbers of voters for this poll, it would seem that people are not as concerned about a separate thread as long as they have somewhere to post.

SnowDrifts

GreeBo wrote: »

As constructive as "fiasco" mayhaps? :rolleyes:

You are entitled to your "decision"?, just as we are to ours.
1/3rd of the people who voted in this thread agreed with our decision. Thats enough of an reason for us. Its hardly a massive inconvenience to have to post in a different thread in the same forum.

If we didnt have the poll then there would be no betting at all allowed in here so I'm not sure how you see it as pointless, but again you are entitled to your "decision".

Also its interesting to note the significant drop in numbers of voters for this poll, it would seem that people are not as concerned about a separate thread as long as they have somewhere to post.

Can I ask why you decided to go with the minority and not the majority?

GreeBo

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Can I ask why you decided to go with the minority and not the majority?

The polls were to gauge opinion, not to provide the decision.
Being the majority doesnt make it the correct decision by any means.

If you were sitting where we are you would see the amount of extra work that threads like the Open thread caused. The more and more freedom we give the more and more people abuse it and cause more work for us.
Call it selfish if you want but this decision means less work for moderators and a smoother running forum.

Jaysoose

Have to agree with Snowdrifts here the mods ask for people to contribute to a poll and then just ignore the results as they know what way they are gonna go?

Fair enough with the reasoning behind the decision but why create the belief that the posters even have a say.

GreeBo

Jaysoose wrote: »

Have to agree with Snowdrifts here the mods ask for people to contribute to a poll and then just ignore the results as they know what way they are gonna go?

Fair enough with the reasoning behind the decision but why create the belief that the posters even have a say.

As I said above. The poll was to gauge opinion, not to provide a decision. It was not a "vote" to determine the result.
Its incorrect to say we knew what the decision was going to be before the poll.
If so why would we have created the poll in the first place.
Actually the personal preference of both mods is to keep all betting posts on the gambling forum, but based on the feedback we have reached the following decision.
If the fact that we didnt blindly follow the poll results is causing this much concern then perhaps we shouldnt have polls in the future and just decide in private?

Aidric

Sorry but what a complete mess this all is.

An ambiguous OP and subsequent posts thereafter didn't make it clear that the views of the majority of golf forum posters would be ignored.

Where exactly is the problem with people giving their selections in a tournament thread? It has never caused issues before.

Jaysoose

GreeBo wrote: »

As I said above. The poll was to gauge opinion, not to provide a decision. It was not a "vote" to determine the result.
Its incorrect to say we knew what the decision was going to be before the poll.
If so why would we have created the poll in the first place.
Actually the personal preference of both mods is to keep all betting posts on the gambling forum, but based on the feedback we have reached the following decision.
If the fact that we didnt blindly follow the poll results is causing this much concern then perhaps we shouldnt have polls in the future and just decide in private?

But you did decide in private then ran a pointless poll which actually resulted in the majority voting against the decision you came up with.

You should have just said the mods want the two seperate and avoided basically dictating against the general concensus.

GreeBo

Aidric wrote: »

Sorry but what a complete mess this all is.

An ambiguous OP and subsequent posts thereafter didn't make it clear that the views of the majority of golf forum posters would be ignored.

Where exactly is the problem with people giving their selections in a tournament thread? It has never caused issues before.

Did you actually read the charter?
There is no problem with people mentioning who they have a bet on, as long as that isnt the main purpose of their post.
This is not a gambling forum, if you want to solely talk about bets and odds then do it on that forum or on the specific thread for it.
/edit
The results were not ignored. If they were ignored there would be no betting thread.

GreeBo

Aidric wrote: »

Sorry but what a complete mess this all is.

An ambiguous OP and subsequent posts thereafter didn't make it clear that the views of the majority of golf forum posters would be ignored.

Where exactly is the problem with people giving their selections in a tournament thread? It has never caused issues before.

Ambigious?
How so.

"Do you want in thread gambling or a dedicated thread?"

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

The polls were to gauge opinion, not to provide the decision.
Being the majority doesnt make it the correct decision by any means.

GreeBo wrote: »

Ambigious?
How so.

"Do you want in thread gambling or a dedicated thread?"

The implications of the poll's result were ambiguous!
Why bother having the poll if, as it seems, a decision was already made.
When would the majority have been correct, when it was at 70,75,80% or never?

I accept the decision and thanks should be given to anyone that takes time to moderate but I think this whole thing will leave a bitter taste with members.
For a good forum to work, posters must respect the moderators, but the reverse is also the case.
I think we were sold a bit of a pup on the second poll.

I would argue that there is potentially going to be more work involved for mods as a result of all this.

The Competition thread will have to be monitored for "pure betting" posts as opposed to "semi betting" talk. (More work than before)

The Betting thread in itself will have to be moderated. (Assuming the same amount of work for mods will arise in this thread, can't see how separating it will make a difference.)

I can't see how the "problems" of the past will be eradicated by this new step but best of luck with it and thanks for the work all the mods do!

charlieIRL

If it was solely up to me there would be no betting posts here at all to be honest, I don't think they add to the threads at all. Maybe it’s because I don't bet on golf or the fact that I have no interested in betting on golf.

The polls were done as kind of a "fact finding" and we decided to let the discussion of odds to accompany a post on a particular thread. If it’s betting only you want to discuss then it’s the gambling forum they should be posted.

SnowDrifts

charlieIRL wrote: »

If it was solely up to me there would be no betting posts here at all to be honest, I don't think they add to the threads at all. Maybe it’s because I don't bet on golf or the fact that I have no interested in betting on golf.

The polls were done as kind of a "fact finding" and we decided to let the discussion of odds to accompany a post on a particular thread. If it’s betting only you want to discuss then it’s the gambling forum they should be posted.

You are only one person. Add Greebo and thats 2. How many people use the golf forum? The majority opinion should prevail in my opinion.

Personal agendas should be put aside for the greater good.

charlieIRL

SnowDrifts wrote: »

You are only one person. Add Greebo and thats 2. How many people use the golf forum? The majority opinion should prevail in my opinion.

Personal agendas should be put aside for the greater good.

but they have been put aside and the topic of gambling is now allowed and added to the forum charter.

bustercherry

You lads love making work for yourselves :pac:

Anyway I'm unclear on the new rules. If I post "I think Snedeker could have a good chance of winning. Course suits his game, had good results on the course before and coming on the back of 4 top 10 finishes. I certainly think the bookies have got Snedeker wrong at 130/1." Does this mean I get banned?

Should I make 2 posts in the 2 separate threads? Should I link to the post in the betting thread to continue out my post?

GreeBo

bustercherry wrote: »

You lads love making work for yourselves :pac:

Anyway I'm unclear on the new rules. If I post "I think Snedeker could have a good chance of winning. Course suits his game, had good results on the course before and coming on the back of 4 top 10 finishes. I certainly think the bookies have got Snedeker wrong at 130/1." Does this mean I get banned?

Should I make 2 posts in the 2 separate threads? Should I link to the post in the betting thread to continue out my post?

That post would be fine. The main point of it is not around betting.
What we dont want is people posting lists of players odds or how much they bet on X, Y, Z.
As was said, warnings will be given if people stray over the line, infractions & bannings are only given out when people make no effort and as a last resort.
See Dr Sillys posts as an example.

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

The implications of the poll's result were ambiguous!
Why bother having the poll if, as it seems, a decision was already made.
When would the majority have been correct, when it was at 70,75,80% or never?

I can't see how the "problems" of the past will be eradicated by this new step but best of luck with it and thanks for the work all the mods do!

Again, a decision had not already been made. It was made after the results. We have the PM's to prove it!

100% of people voting the same way doesnt make the decision correct, even in a democracy. I think you are confusing what makes a decision the correct one with what makes it the popular one.
If the government had a poll about paying no tax do you think they would blindly follow the result?

Problems such as people complaining about betting posts and threads being dragged off topic will be avoided now.

PARlance

charlieIRL wrote: »

If it was solely up to me there would be no betting posts here at all to be honest, I don't think they add to the threads at all. Maybe it’s because I don't bet on golf or the fact that I have no interested in betting on golf.

The polls were done as kind of a "fact finding" and we decided to let the discussion of odds to accompany a post on a particular thread. If it’s betting only you want to discuss then it’s the gambling forum they should be posted.

Fair point CharlieIRL, it would have been nice to know that in advance of voting.
Or in reality, it would have been easier to take it if you just went ahead without the poll.
A two thirds majority is a pretty good majority in anyone's book.
I don't think I too far off the mark saying it was a fait accompli regardless of the poll.

Betting, for better or worse, is part of our society. Seeing the horse racing results on the news accompanied by the odds being the best example for that.

I'm trying to understand the mods point of view as much as possible, and I'd say this has caused a few headaches for you all.

But that said, a moderator referring to someone as a member of the Nazi party is way out of order.