Carers - What is there political solution?

Joey the lips

Hi All,
I am a carer as some might know. I constantly write to govt ministers on issues facing carers.I figure that if carers really matter to the govt then they will listen to me but guess what. Nothing. Nada zilch.

I have written to Fine Gael and Labour both who claim to care deeply for carers in there manifestos and on there website and neither has come back to me.
Now dont get me wrong i dont write dozens of pee me off letters just maybe 4 a year or so. What i would have though normal...

So having been told by the last govt and now the current govt that they "care" for us. Really, what in what way do they care? We are usually a group of people who are very seriously stretched. We cannot talk ****e about national debt when we are usually dealing with our own internal crisis.

So really what can we do? Just listen to the govt spouting crap or is there some legal challange available?

Let me give you an example of a carers situation.

A carer usually gets to see the person they love grow old and increasingly dependent. They may have to mop up tons of there loved ones sick and toilet. They usually have to wash them and insure they dont come immobile. Its not an easy life and gets harder as the carer gets older. This is not a chosen life its an accepted life.

What do we get in return? We get carers allowence, dont get me wrong we are greatful for the support. But explain this to me. Why is it that a carer is acknowledged as doing a brilliant job but is yet deducted when other welfare departments are deducted? If we chose to give up careing our dependent would require a lot more expense.

Additionally, as a carer our job ends when the cared for passes away or in instationalised. Now look at this statement. As a parent you go from looking after your special needs child all your life to being broken in spirit to having no work experience, no pension and no prospects.

What do the govt do when i write to them on these issues.... Nothing! What remedy is open to me....Dont vote for them! That is easy to say but when they collectivly lie to us carers it means we have to accept these lies.

As really....What can we do as regards a political sway

jimmycrackcorm

What's the "political solution" you are looking for? You already get a dedicated allowance so your position is recognized.

Joey the lips

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What's the "political solution" you are looking for? You already get a dedicated allowance so your position is recognized.

Good reply. This is the front that we portray. But let me point something out. We are used in every political campagn. We are promised help. We are constantly praised and told of the hard work we do and what happens? We get tossed into the same welfare pot as everyone else and then get cut!

Our position is reconised simply because in the seventies the then govt realised that to hire someone to do our work would cost a lot more including pension for the carer and boarding for the cared person and general care.

Dont get me wrong in one sense i am greatful but what actually have this govt done for carers over the last???? Nothing!

A carer works 24 hours a day. 3 people would be hired to do that work. If you factor this into carers allowence that 1,25 per hour its means tested and does not come with a pension.

You see i dont want much just what i have been promised. But guess what. Even that 1,25 an hour is under threat.


Additionally. Carers are not allowed register with fas or do any training so they fall out of the workforce.... Just think about that for a second. If i apply for a job and tell someone that i have been minding my son for the last 20 years instead of working or training whats the likelyhood of me getting it?

poeticseraphim

Joey the lips wrote: »

Good reply. This is the front that we portray. But let me point something out. We are used in every political campagn. We are promised help. We are constantly praised and told of the hard work we do and what happens? We get tossed into the same welfare pot as everyone else and then get cut!

Our position is reconised simply because in the seventies the then govt realised that to hire someone to do our work would cost a lot more including pension for the carer and boarding for the cared person and general care.

Dont get me wrong in one sense i am greatful but what actually have this govt done for carers over the last???? Nothing!

A carer works 24 hours a day. 3 people would be hired to do that work. If you factor this into carers allowence that 1,25 per hour its means tested and does not come with a pension.

You see i dont want much just what i have been promised. But guess what. Even that 1,25 an hour is under threat.


Additionally. Carers are not allowed register with fas or do any training so they fall out of the workforce.... Just think about that for a second. If i apply for a job and tell someone that i have been minding my son for the last 20 years instead of working or training whats the likelyhood of me getting it?

What would you like to see yourself?

Would you prefer the state to care for your son with investing in the health service or more support for you doing what you do now.

I think perhaps they could offer you an allowance to do what you see fit with??Either use it to hire help whilst you work or to support yourself as you care for your son.

As regards getting you back into the workforce ...well i imagine the best option would be to suppport you as you entered some form of higher education.

Health services in this country are a joke...

What would you like to see?

The situation with Fás etc should be rectified.

Joey the lips

poeticseraphim wrote: »

What would you like to see yourself?

Would you prefer the state to care for your son with investing in the health service or more support for you doing what you do now.

I think perhaps they could offer you an allowance to do what you see fit with??Either use it to hire help whilst you work or to support yourself as you care for your son.

As regards getting you back into the workforce ...well i imagine the best option would be to suppport you as you entered some form of higher education.

Health services in this country are a joke...

What would you like to see?

The situation with Fás etc should be rectified.

No No i think i am being misread. I am delighted that i am in the position to care for my son but i am sick of broken election promises used to paint a caring side to a politician. They constantly promise carers better deals but they are the first to suffer


The allowence is not necessary. Really i prob dont want any more. I just want the deal that has been promised. I would also like our position to be reconised as contributory and as such when we retire we get the contributory pension from the state.

As for fas. We are not reconised as a statastic but really an awful lot of carers suffer with emotional stresses. Fas should have dedicated courses run in child and adult management for carers ie fetac health courses.

Will this happen? Not while we are a statastic?

What would really be nice is for us to be given what we are promised and left alone to do the work we do.

Welease

Joey the lips wrote: »

What would really be nice is for us to be given what we are promised and left alone to do the work we do.

What were we promised?

Joey the lips

Welease wrote: »

What were we promised?

Carers were promised that there payments would be "ringfenced" pr protected from cuts because its hard to cut whats already low. They were also promised universal medical cards, butter therapy and access to education and training.

Guess what.....

Welease

Joey the lips wrote: »

Carers were promised that there payments would be "ringfenced" pr protected from cuts because its hard to cut whats already low. They were also promised universal medical cards, butter therapy and access to education and training.

Guess what.....

Do you have a link to those in the program for government or manifesto's?
(I personally didn't see any of those beforehand so would be interested to know the detail and source)..

I also think a lot has to come down to funding availability, while it would be nice to get "everything" there is a realistic point on what is needed for the "patient" and what is nice to provide for the support, and I'd rather see the funding for the patient held.. rather than cut to provide other job opportunity training or pensions for support.

For my son,
DCA is provided (plus the summer bonus.. how many SW scheme's get a summer bonus of ~€1,500?) on top of Child Benefit (in short he gets about €500 per month)
School extends out into the summer (with only an August 4 week vacation) so daily continuity is provided.Funding provided by the state.
During summer, school has 2 days out per week (farm and ballpark) funded by the state
School support has been provided for him since the age of 2.5.. Funded by the state.
Taxi's are provided by the state to deliver/collect children (although we don't use due to locality)
Special Needs Books/Toys etc. in school and Libraries are provided by the state free of charge
Enable Ireland/Beechpark provide extra developmental and language support and expert who visit our house once per month and liase with the school..
Long Term disability medical card provided by the state.

All costs covered by the state.

Joey the lips

Welease wrote: »

Do you have a link to those in the program for government or manifesto's?
(I personally didn't see any of those beforehand so would be interested to know the detail and source)..

I also think a lot has to come down to funding availability, while it would be nice to get "everything" there is a realistic point on what is needed for the "patient" and what is nice to provide for the support, and I'd rather see the funding for the patient held.. rather than cut to provide other job opportunity training or pensions for support.

For my son,
DCA is provided (plus the summer bonus.. how many SW scheme's get a summer bonus of ~€1,500?) on top of Child Benefit (in short he gets about €500 per month)
School extends out into the summer (with only an August 4 week vacation) so daily continuity is provided.Funding provided by the state.
During summer, school has 2 days out per week (farm and ballpark) funded by the state
School support has been provided for him since the age of 2.5.. Funded by the state.
Taxi's are provided by the state to deliver/collect children (although we don't use due to locality)
Special Needs Books/Toys etc. in school and Libraries are provided by the state free of charge
Enable Ireland/Beechpark provide extra developmental and language support and expert who visit our house once per month and liase with the school..
Long Term disability medical card provided by the state.

All costs covered by the state.

With due respect to you. With exception to the respite care grant and its not a bonus. You completly misunderstand it , all is provided for your son and not for you. But consider this carefully.

Imagine your 35 and you have a child that requires around the clock care.

This will be for life but a min of 18 years

That now brings you up to 53

Too old to be employed by most companies.

Too old to start a pension

Out of the workforce so long your experience wont count.

You are not and will not be entitled to any more assistance than a school leaver.

Now consider another situation

Your 35 and you work in a state home.

You work there for 18 years min

You have been earning min wage 400 euro per week so min could provide a prsa

Your experience will count in a simular role.

You will go straight on a back to work scheme

you will have built up contrabutions to allow you unemployment benefit rather than assistance.


Now looking at both these cases...You tell me a carers life is fair and then tell me why the govt is promising us constantly a better deal and does not deliver it.


i am looking for the links.

Welease

Joey the lips wrote: »

With due respect to you. With exception to the respite care grant and its not a bonus. You completly misunderstand it , all is provided for your son and not for you. But consider this carefully.

Imagine your 35 and you have a child that requires around the clock care.

This will be for life but a min of 18 years

That now brings you up to 53

Too old to be employed by most companies.

Too old to start a pension

Out of the workforce so long your experience wont count.

You are not and will not be entitled to any more assistance than a school leaver.

Now consider another situation

Your 35 and you work in a state home.

You work there for 18 years min

You have been earning min wage 400 euro per week so min could provide a prsa

Your experience will count in a simular role.

You will go straight on a back to work scheme

you will have built up contrabutions to allow you unemployment benefit rather than assistance.


Now looking at both these cases...You tell me a carers life is fair and then tell me why the govt is promising us constantly a better deal and does not deliver it.


i am looking for the links.

With equal respect to you.. maybe everyone else actually understands the situation and its you that misunderstands completely? I dont mean that to sound rude, but your immediate response to everyone seems to be to tell them that they misunderstand.. I understand my situation completely, I deal with it daily....

When those services are being provided to my son, then they are being provided to me also as we get a break from round the clock care and it allows me (or my wife) to take time out and get other tasks done. We directly benefit from those services!

Regarding your example above.. Oranges and Apples.. Why should you or I get the benefits of state employment just because we choose to look after our sick child. Working in a state home is not a 1:1 care situation for a start. If you are caring for a child 24 hours a day where will the time come for these FAS courses you want etc.? If you (or your partner) have time for those courses, then you have time to go out and find employment that will pay Contrib. Pension payments, and keep your skills up to date. 18 years of FAS courses is not going to make you any more attractive to an employer when you are 53.

We (our family) choose to look after our child at home, and we are glad that the government provide direct support to him. I don't nor will I ever feel the need to be paid, given work training courses or contrib pensions for doing this role.

I'm not trying to dismiss your situation as each and every child will be different (but you should also try and not to dismiss other carer's opinions because we don't believe we should get extra benefits for this role).. But I fail to see what benefit their is to putting you on FAS courses for work you by your own admission (24 hour round the clock care) you could never take. I also don't agree with pension contrib payments, as we don't pay them to stay at home Mums who look after multiple children etc.

The situation is not perfect, it never will be with special needs or long term sick child.. but for me, your requirements are about the last solution I would like to see put in place in an already restricted service funding plan.
If you (or partner) want pension rights, good employment history, then utilise family, friends or paid services and go out and find work. Thats what other folks (including us) do.

Joey the lips

Welease wrote: »

With equal respect to you.. maybe everyone else actually understands the situation and its you that misunderstands completely? I dont mean that to sound rude, but your immediate response to everyone seems to be to tell them that they misunderstand.. I understand my situation completely, I deal with it daily....

When those services are being provided to my son, then they are being provided to me also as we get a break from round the clock care and it allows me (or my wife) to take time out and get other tasks done. We directly benefit from those services!

Regarding your example above.. Oranges and Apples.. Why should you or I get the benefits of state employment just because we choose to look after our sick child. Working in a state home is not a 1:1 care situation for a start. If you are caring for a child 24 hours a day where will the time come for these FAS courses you want etc.? If you (or your partner) have time for those courses, then you have time to go out and find employment that will pay Contrib. Pension payments, and keep your skills up to date. 18 years of FAS courses is not going to make you any more attractive to an employer when you are 53.

We (our family) choose to look after our child at home, and we are glad that the government provide direct support to him. I don't nor will I ever feel the need to be paid, given work training courses or contrib pensions for doing this role.

I'm not trying to dismiss your situation as each and every child will be different (but you should also try and not to dismiss other carer's opinions because we don't believe we should get extra benefits for this role).. But I fail to see what benefit their is to putting you on FAS courses for work you by your own admission (24 hour round the clock care) you could never take. I also don't agree with pension contrib payments, as we don't pay them to stay at home Mums who look after multiple children etc.

The situation is not perfect, it never will be with special needs or long term sick child.. but for me, your requirements are about the last solution I would like to see put in place in an already restricted service funding plan.
If you (or partner) want pension rights, good employment history, then utilise family, friends or paid services and go out and find work. Thats what other folks (including us) do.

I understand. So am i write in thinking that you actually feel your lucky? Do i have it wrong? I am using pension rights as an example. If you work for that time the state will allow your prsi contrabutions to give you a slightly higher contrabution in acknowledgement of your work. This does not apply to carers.

Most carers are not in a position to work outside the home and do actually utilise family as you mention. If you are caring you will understand that you cannot get away from home without help.

I suppose what i am thinking is really if you look at a carers lot all you are expected to do is care. Your means is too little to take on a course privatly and if your unfortunate enough to loose the person you cared for then you start as you entered the life... With nothing. I thought you would as a carer see that as harsh but i perfectly understand you feel gratitude.

Thanks for your contrabution.

Welease

Joey the lips wrote: »

I understand. So am i write in thinking that you actually feel your lucky? Do i have it wrong? I am using pension rights as an example. If you work for that time the state will allow your prsi contrabutions to give you a slightly higher contrabution in acknowledgement of your work. This does not apply to carers.

No I don't feel lucky, but conversely I don't feel unlucky. Services are provided to me which I utilise and I use my intelligence, hard work, family and friends to fill in the gaps. I don't expect everything to be handed to me on a plate (I'm not saying that you do.. but you seem to have an issue with me not wanting to be given more benefits.. )
In one aspect I do feel lucky.. After several visits to Crumlin hospital in dispair, I realised that I actually got to take my child home each time.. Many parents in there will not be so lucky.. From that day on, I resolved to get on with it and deliver what we needed.. I wouldn't sit around and expect anyone else to do it for me.
I continued to go out and work, and my wife would provide the home care until I got home then we would work in synch, then I would take over into the early hours so she could rest. Its long hours and it can be tough, but I choose to do it. She doesn't get a cent for the effort she puts in, nor does she ask for one, and she gave up a very good career to do this.

Joey the lips wrote: »

Most carers are not in a position to work outside the home and do actually utilise family as you mention. If you are caring you will understand that you cannot get away from home without help.

So how are you going to attend these FAS courses you want provided over the 18+ years?

Joey the lips wrote: »

I suppose what i am thinking is really if you look at a carers lot all you are expected to do is care.

No, thats where we differ.. I (and my wife) choose to care.. I don't "expect" nor do I request to be paid for it. It is my son who is special needs, and it is I who am suffering from an active brain tumor (so my wife needs to look after both of us atm). We live out in the countryside, and I am not allowed to drive at present due to the tumor, so she has to ferry us about and today my father will drive 1 hour each way to sit with me and the kids so my wife can get out and do other tasks. We choose to look after each other and our family and friends provide great support to facilitate this.
If we choose not to do this, we could put our son in care and the state would pick it up from there. There is no way we would allow this to happen, so I choose to put in the effort, and I don't expect to be paid for doing it.

Joey the lips wrote: »

Your means is too little to take on a course privatly and if your unfortunate enough to loose the person you cared for then you start as you entered the life... With nothing. I thought you would as a carer see that as harsh but i perfectly understand you feel gratitude.

I don't see it as harsh. I see it as life, which isn't always fair, but it's life and it isn't going to change. I am glad to avail of the services provided to him, and I will continue to use them.. and I am glad that I can provide services to him directly. I don't need anyone to hold my hand or give me handouts for me to suddenly feel important.

Joey the lips wrote: »

I thought you would as a carer see that as harsh but i perfectly understand you feel gratitude
Thanks for your contrabution.

Why do you need to feel gratitude from a politician who you will likely never meet, in the form of payment (and thats ignoring the DCA which you already get and could invest or save) or training courses?
It sounds like we approach the issue in a completely different manner, but I get gratitude from my son being alive and smiling as we work through this. That's why we had children, and thats why I am more than happy to provide care..

Welease

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0719/breaking50.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0719/national_carers_strategy.pdf