Bullying / Alienation???

jos_kel

A couple of weeks ago a Very Senior Manager in my department was talking to my manager about the new girl starting the following monday (He was off on 2 weeks holidays after that). He was laughing to my manager that she had "drawn the short straw" to end up sitting directly opposite me.
He also made a similar comment a year before before a new person started.
I was taken a bit aback about this but laughed anyway, as did my manager. I didn't take it personally, allowing for differing senses of humour.
Very Senior Manager back today, welcomed the new girl and also a new guy who sits beside her. Then he said have you met Jim (not my real name) and they said "Yes" and he said "Sorry for your troubles". I sent him an email saying I wasn't happy. Just from a complete outsiders perspective, what do ye think of this?

jos_kel

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Wanderer2010

I could do with a bit more info before I give advice, OP. For instance, are you a popular member or staff, in with the "in clique" or do you just stick to yourself and do your own work, not really bothering with others? I know its petty but many workplaces view you based on your social status, like the bad old days of school and if you are laughing and joking/interacting with the popular members of staff, you may be seen as more important that a quiet or reserved member of staff who doesnt mix much or play sport etc.

It could also be an innocent remark as in "Oh he is always telling jokes, I would hate to be stuck opposite him" or maybe you talk so much you distract others. Let us know how you are seen in the workplace before we can say either way if this is a nasty or uncalled for remark.

jos_kel

Thanks for the reply Wanderer2010. See comments below in red.

I could do with a bit more info before I give advice, OP. For instance, are you a popular member or staff, in with the "in clique" or do you just stick to yourself and do your own work, not really bothering with others?
Yes that sort of sums me up, I just get on with the job, however I get on with mostly everyone, but would be considered a bit on the quiet side. There would be a "clique" where I work alright, and lots of people trying to be heroes. I don't go for this, I just apply myself honestly and focus on my job and let it do the talking for me.
I know its petty but many workplaces view you based on your social status, like the bad old days of school and if you are laughing and joking/interacting with the popular members of staff, you may be seen as more important that a quiet or reserved member of staff who doesnt mix much or play sport etc.
Yes this workplace would be a bit like that, when then new person was introduced, eventhough my seat was closest, it appeared that more important senior managers were introduced first. However, I'm good for a joke and a laugh too, I just don't get involved in the "clique".
It could also be an innocent remark as in "Oh he is always telling jokes, I would hate to be stuck opposite him" or maybe you talk so much you distract others. Let us know how you are seen in the workplace before we can say either way if this is a nasty or uncalled for remark.
Yeah, I see what you mean but put yourself in my position, a stranger is sitting across from you, and the head honcho says, have you met Jim, and then says "Sorry, for your troubles". At the very least, I think I should ask him what he meant. The poor girl probably thinks I'm a pervert or a psycho.
Certainly doesn't foster a working relationship.

ongarboy

It sounds as if you are someone who doesn't have the craic with this senior manager whereby you frequently engage in banter, slagging, mock insults etc and you would be able to give as good as you get. This is not a reflection on your personality btw. I'm surprised the manager wouldn't have picked up on this already and know not to exhange such banter or else he thinks you are someone who he can have the craic with and hence the slagging or "witty" remarks as he sees them.

Did you get a response back from on the email you sent him? Unless he is an a**h*le, I would like to think he is not being literal when he makes such off the cuff remarks (just a misplaced sense of humour). It has obviously upset you so you were perhaps right to address it. Personally, I would have had a 1:1 chat about it with him just to guage reaction etc as sometimes tone can be misunderstood in an email. It would be interested to hear the manager's feedback to the email.

SheFiend

Often managers will banter like this to make people feel more comfortable. Its normal in my place of work and most people engage in it willingly as a means to lighten the mood, especially around new employees. It has happened that a person took extreme offense to this banter, and reported a real nice friendly manager for bullying. Everyone was shocked, especially the manager, as he meant no offense. Needless to say, no one has tried to have the craic with that person since!

ongarboy

Exactly! I'm from Kerry and work in Dublin and I've lost count the amount of times I'm slagged for the county of my roots at work! It would be exactly like my manager (who is from Cork) to apologise to a new employee for having them sit next to me :rolleyes:. It's all good natured and I know it's not personal.

However, if your instinct feels there is an underlying malicious intent to the banter you are experiencing then I suggest a quiet word with the manager just to clarify what is going on. It would be a shame to initiate a formal complaint or accusation of bullying when there may have been no such intent.

midlandsmissus

SheFiend wrote: »

Often managers will banter like this to make people feel more comfortable. Its normal in my place of work and most people engage in it willingly as a means to lighten the mood, especially around new employees. It has happened that a person took extreme offense to this banter, and reported a real nice friendly manager for bullying. Everyone was shocked, especially the manager, as he meant no offense. Needless to say, no one has tried to have the craic with that person since!

It's really annoying to read that :mad:. Some people just don't think.

If you've grown up in an abusive home/been bullied at school/been with an abusive partner you are not going to like 'bantering' insults. That's why some people are more sensitive than others - history.

I'd hate to have some-one say 'you've drawn the short straw to be beside her', it's a horrible thing to say.

It's only 'banter' when the people are close and know each other well and know the other can take it.

He is not close to that person at work and therefore it was used in an insulting manner.

A lot more people are upset by 'banter' than you think. They're just afraid to make a big deal of it to look like wusses.

I am currently upset by a woman at work who has said numerous horrible things to me and called me too sensitive when I was upset, of course it was never her fault for being an overbearing tosser...

looksee

A lot of people would see that kind of remark as part of being accepted in a workplace - the people who are popular and that people feel relaxed with tend to attract that kind of banter, it isn't meant badly. However you need to have a bit of a strategy to deal with it, if he is going to do 'robust humour' you need to reply in kind - for example when he said 'sorry for your troubles' just give the new person a kind of eye-roll and say 'you have to love his sense of humour' or raise your eyebrows at the manager and say 'thanks for that'. Then smile and forget it.

Its usually better to give a humourous reply even when you suspect the person talking is serious, it takes the sting out of the remark and gives the impression that you are not allowing them to get to you.

LegacyUser

looksee wrote: »

A lot of people would see that kind of remark as part of being accepted in a workplace - the people who are popular and that people feel relaxed with tend to attract that kind of banter, it isn't meant badly. However you need to have a bit of a strategy to deal with it, if he is going to do 'robust humour' you need to reply in kind - for example when he said 'sorry for your troubles' just give the new person a kind of eye-roll and say 'you have to love his sense of humour' or raise your eyebrows at the manager and say 'thanks for that'. Then smile and forget it.

Its usually better to give a humourous reply even when you suspect the person talking is serious, it takes the sting out of the remark and gives the impression that you are not allowing them to get to you.

Yeah but do you ever think of the people who aren't popular, and why this might be if you stopped and think? I get on great with all my workmates now, but there was a time when I was going through an absolute terrible time at home, and was sad and not up for banter, and instead of seeing why this might be, I became alienated, looked at as too sensitive, and efectively 'bullied' by the 'popular' crowd. It was a horrible time.

People are so quick to not want it to happen with them that they side with the bullies/popular crowd and alienate the person who is going through a hard time/ not lliked by anyone.

If you look at this closer, it is so much bigger of a person to go over to some-one and ask are they ok even if they're unpopular rather than staying in a little click all the time.

AS I always say - if you're lucky enough to be accepted - try to put yourself in the shoes of ther person who isn't and try to see what it must be like for them.

looksee

Yeah but do you ever think of the people who aren't popular, and why this might be if you stopped and think? I get on great with all my workmates now, but there was a time when I was going through an absolute terrible time at home, and was sad and not up for banter, and instead of seeing why this might be, I became alienated, looked at as too sensitive, and efectively 'bullied' by the 'popular' crowd. It was a horrible time.

People are so quick to not want it to happen with them that they side with the bullies/popular crowd and alienate the person who is going through a hard time/ not lliked by anyone.

If you look at this closer, it is so much bigger of a person to go over to some-one and ask are they ok even if they're unpopular rather than staying in a little click all the time.

AS I always say - if you're lucky enough to be accepted - try to put yourself in the shoes of ther person who isn't and try to see what it must be like for them.

Please do not jump to any conclusions about where I am coming from. The sanctimonious suggestion of getting into someone else's shoes is entirely unnecessary. How do you know I am not speaking from very personal experience, and am relating a system that worked for me?

My observations were made to try and encourage the OP to see a different side. Yes, of course there are bullies and bullied people out there, and yes the pack mentality can be cruel to someone they have decided should be bullied.

But between the extremes of being one of the clique and doing the bullying, and being one of the bullied is a huge area where unthinking individuals make other people's life if not miserable, then less happy than it should be.

Where it is just one random eejit making brainless comments you can either decide you are being bullied and make yourself miserable, or deal with it. I came to the conclusion, reading the OP, that this was just a case of an aggravating and thoughtless boss type - and I guess most of us have had them - and it is far better to deal with it than to be knocked back by it.

If I am wrong and the OP feels seriously bullied then I would say you need to take this to HR or someone in authority in the firm. I don't think he does though, he just feels a bit 'got at' and disrespected, and the only person who can deal with that is himself. My suggestions were related to that situation.