export type cattle

simx

hi lads,

at the moment i have simmental suckler cows mainly,couple of hereford,black lim,charlaois,simmental bull gone last year,but i really want to be selling thre calves as weanlings,get a creep and bulk them up hopefully for export because im of the poinion id be better off this way as i dont have big numbers,was thinking of getting ch bull for next year,i always use easy calving lim on heifers,lim used on all this year,anyway what way would ye reckon would be the best way to build up to this type of operation? what would ye think of partanaise bull for few years and work onto blue? i reckon blue out of sim would be very plain or has anyone done this? all opinons appredciated

Bizzum

If you have the right cow you will breed (most of the time!) export quality weanlings off a decent CH, BB or PT bull.
I would focus on getting the correct cow for the terminal sire I favoured.

tismesoitis

Bizzum wrote: »

If you have the right cow you will breed (most of the time!) export quality weanlings off a decent CH, BB or PT bull.
I would focus on getting the correct cow for the terminal sire I favoured.

100% agree with bizzum here and in my opinion the first thing to do is start to cull out or breed out the simmental blood. too much frame and not enough muscle. there are posters on here with great results from lim and blonde cows and i think part cows will do d biz too.

Juniorhurler

Keep your limo heifers as breeding stock.
Buy a part bull and keep those heifers as breeding stock.
Buy a blue bull then to cross onto those heifers and you should be very close to set up.

Having the simmental a generation back will be no harm for milk and frame size to go with the muscle.

This is what I would do anyhow.

simx

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Keep your limo heifers as breeding stock.
Buy a part bull and keep those heifers as breeding stock.
Buy a blue bull then to cross onto those heifers and you should be very close to set up.

Having the simmental a generation back will be no harm for milk and frame size to go with the muscle.

This is what I would do anyhow.

thanks for veiws lads,was thinking part bull alright then cross with blue previously as ive seen such cattle,blue out of lim i was impressed with also,does anyone on here sell export weanlings? and if so do ye reckon ye are better off than keeping until yearlings/finishing? what bull do ye work? what breed dam?

just do it

simx wrote: »

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Keep your limo heifers as breeding stock.
Buy a part bull and keep those heifers as breeding stock.
Buy a blue bull then to cross onto those heifers and you should be very close to set up.

Having the simmental a generation back will be no harm for milk and frame size to go with the muscle.

This is what I would do anyhow.

thanks for veiws lads,was thinking part bull alright then cross with blue previously as ive seen such cattle,blue out of lim i was impressed with also,does anyone on here sell export weanlings? and if so do ye reckon ye are better off than keeping until yearlings/finishing? what bull do ye work? what breed dam?

Have a look back through posts by legwax over the last few months. That's a good starting point.

I sold a few blues recently that were just about good enough to make the boat. For me the cows need one more decent generation of breeding to get them to good U's before aiming at the blue export market again.

simx

just do it wrote: »

Have a look back through posts by legwax over the last few months. That's a good starting point.

I sold a few blues recently that were just about good enough to make the boat. For me the cows need one more decent generation of breeding to get them to good U's before aiming at the blue export market again.

had a quick look at a few of them,by the looks of it he has mainly blonde dams,but now has a part bull in the hope there will be more milk in the cows,he says fertility isnt amazing in blondes,what is it like in partanaise?

i am seroiusly considering a part bull to run next year,have heard blonde bulls do be wicked? any truth in this? the simmental for me is too plain and does not produce a quality calf,its more of a dairy amns mop up bull i would reckon,theres little profit to be made in sucklers in the 1st place so have to make some changes around here in reagds to breeding,any opinions are much appreaciated

redzerologhlen

I dont want to come across as being smart but why is everyone trying to produce weanlings for the export market when only a very low percentage are exported every year? Op I have a neighbour with sim and charolais cows, he crosses the charolais with a sim bull and the sim cows with a charolais. He keeps them all to yearlings, squeezes the bull calfs and keeps the best of the heifers never losing milk, most of the surplus heifers are bought for breeding too and he gets top dollar for them. Bullocks in my opinion are going to be scarce for the foreseable future since the advent of bull beef and there is a huge demand for them with the ''area aid farmers''. Its the road I intend to go myself over the next few years. It might not suit your system but I wouldnt rule it out straight away.

Muckit

No point trying to hop on the boat after it's left the port. Bull beef thing has had it's day. If your not in it big your only pi**in against the wind IMO anyway.

Hard to beat good shapey continental bullocks. No going in calf, no blood testing and sell whenever you want in mart or finish for factory. With weather like this, that means a lot. Their flexibilty and ease of management at grass beats everything else hands down. It's taking lads along time to cop on to it (including myself), but it's a no brainer if you want less inputs and less hassle.

Tipp Man

I Like the way Redzer and Muckit are thinking:)

Dozer1

Agree with the redzer, you've probably got plenty shape in those SIM cows for producing good quality bullocks/heifers, with the right CH/LM bull you could keep costs low enough and can sell on again whenever suits.

What I see at the few marts I been to is if the blue calf isn't isn't good enough for the boat there isn't great demand from the Irish lads for them.

A U grade cow is a heavy animal to keep and fertility isn't the best on them either.

hats off to the likes of leg wax but like us all some cows are hit and miss with blues.

although with this rain we can nearly swim them to Italy:mad:

redzerologhlen

Tipp Man wrote: »

I Like the way Redzer and Muckit are thinking:)

I wont say it the right way or the wrong way but it suits our system. Fair play to legwax and juniorhurler who seem to have the export market well off and they are on top of their game but you really have to be on top of your game to make a few bucks at it. Their has always been a mad trade around our area for a yellow charolais at any age.

blue5000

simx wrote: »

had a quick look at a few of them,by the looks of it he has mainly blonde dams,but now has a part bull in the hope there will be more milk in the cows,he says fertility isnt amazing in blondes,what is it like in partanaise?

i am seroiusly considering a part bull to run next year,have heard blonde bulls do be wicked? any truth in this? the simmental for me is too plain and does not produce a quality calf,its more of a dairy amns mop up bull i would reckon,theres little profit to be made in sucklers in the 1st place so have to make some changes around here in reagds to breeding,any opinions are much appreaciated

I run a blonde bull here, as a terminal sire, no problems yet anyway, also easily calved out of AA x cows.

simx

blue5000 wrote: »

I run a blonde bull here, as a terminal sire, no problems yet anyway, also easily calved out of AA x cows.

looks like a blonde or partanaise is a good dam to be breeding from would i be right in that? do you have any pics of your calves blue?

Bizzum

redzerologhlen wrote: »

I dont want to come across as being smart but why is everyone trying to produce weanlings for the export market when only a very low percentage are exported every year?

For me "Export quality" is what we aim for. I couldn't care less whether they go abroad or not. Some do some dont. We run a CH bull on mainly U grade cows and produce decent CHX calves. They are as attractive to the local buyers as the exporter. Last year we squeezed a few and got on well with them too. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is export type is in my mind a standard of quality that we try to aim for!

Maybe this is different from the Blues trade I suppose.

Dozer1 wrote: »

A U grade cow is a heavy animal to keep and fertility isn't the best on them either.

I'd be slow to compare grade and weight. We would have some handy U grade cows, and some big cows that would never see a U.
I haven't noticed fertility issues but generally we try and breed replacements from good cows that breed well.

Bizzum

simx wrote: »

looks like a blonde or partanaise is a good dam to be breeding from would i be right in that? do you have any pics of your calves blue?

We have some very good BA cows, some good Limx cows too. I suppose it's easier to produce a U grade weanling from a cow who delivers a bit of muscle to the mix.
We have a couple of good Simx cows too. The CH bull seems to cross well on the Simx cow. We AI'd a couple of good shapey cows to Sim to get replacements but only have bull calves so far, still a couple carrying to Sim though, so here's hoping!

redzerologhlen

Bizzum wrote: »

For me "Export quality" is what we aim for. I couldn't care less whether they go abroad or not. Some do some dont. We run a CH bull on mainly U grade cows and produce decent CHX calves. They are as attractive to the local buyers as the exporter. Last year we squeezed a few and got on well with them too. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is export type is in my mind a standard of quality that we try to aim for!

Maybe this is different from the Blues trade I suppose.



I'd be slow to compare grade and weight. We would have some handy U grade cows, and some big cows that would never see a U.
I haven't noticed fertility issues but generally we try and breed replacements from good cows that breed well.

Thats kinda what I was getting at bizzum. The blues are a bit of a one trick pony when it comes to mart day. Its been discussed to death here since I joined boards so I wont go into it again, you either get it right or wrong with them. Naturally you would try to produce the best quality available within the breed you are using too. What I would really like to know is if there is potential for expansion in the high priced export markets if the right type of stock were produced.

Atilathehun

Muckit wrote: »

No point trying to hop on the boat after it's left the port. Bull beef thing has had it's day. If your not in it big your only pi**in against the wind IMO anyway.

Hard to beat good shapey continental bullocks. No going in calf, no blood testing and sell whenever you want in mart or finish for factory. With weather like this, that means a lot. Their flexibilty and ease of management at grass beats everything else hands down. It's taking lads along time to cop on to it (including myself), but it's a no brainer if you want less inputs and less hassle.

I was in the bullock thing for a good few years. Buying weanlings and squeezing them, and keeping them on to sell as forward stores. Finished a few also. Trouble was, I was locked up with TB, half the time or more. Buying in TB, takes the flexibility out of the system.
Changed to suckling, and never locked up since.

just do it

Good points being made here. Here's a commercial lm 10m bull sold yesterday for €1,265. Just shows quality pays and blues aren't the only show in town.

Simx, are you in a position to use ai? Well worth the effort in my opinion if the goal is to improve the genetic merit of the herd.

Juniorhurler

redzerologhlen wrote: »

I wont say it the right way or the wrong way but it suits our system. Fair play to legwax and juniorhurler who seem to have the export market well off and they are on top of their game but you really have to be on top of your game to make a few bucks at it. Their has always been a mad trade around our area for a yellow charolais at any age.

Thanks for the compliment there Redzer but the truth is I only put up the photos of the better ones. I have the creep feeders out the last week or so and I have about half a dozen that I begrudge seeing them walking into the feeder. Narrow hoors.

simx

just do it wrote: »

Good points being made here. Here's a commercial lm 10m bull sold yesterday for €1,265. Just shows quality pays and blues aren't the only show in town.

Simx, are you in a position to use ai? Well worth the effort in my opinion if the goal is to improve the genetic merit of the herd.

i use ai lim on heifers at the moment as im not a real fan of aa,that said we have a couple of aa x cows that produce savage calves,what would you suggest?

Bizzum

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I have about half a dozen that I begrudge seeing them walking into the feeder. Narrow hoors.

Have you identified why? Is it coming from the cows, is it a particular cow type? Do you need to cull harder? Or do you need to use a different sire on these cows?
You sound like the rest of us/ or at least me, a work in progress!
Reaching a certain standard takes time, work, and a shake of luck!

Bizzum

simx wrote: »

i use ai lim on heifers at the moment as im not a real fan of aa,that said we have a couple of aa x cows that produce savage calves,what would you suggest?

As you use AI already why not pick some good cows and try to breed replacements, you may already have some Limx heifers coming through from AI. If you do a few every year you always have a supply coming through.
I know its slow but you know exactly what your breeding. You cant easily buy that!

just do it

simx wrote: »

i use ai lim on heifers at the moment as im not a real fan of aa,that said we have a couple of aa x cows that produce savage calves,what would you suggest?

I'm not sure about aax cows but I note blue5000 got a blonde bull for his. I've limited experience and others on here can advise better. For me LM is the obvious choice you should be looking at for replacements. Such replacements are then suitable for any terminal sire.

I only have one aax cow which I recently sold a bbx bull from. So just to give an idea I sold 3 BBX bulls which were similar in age and weight. They were bought by the same exporter. 1 from a lmx cow got €2.71kg, 2nd from a simx cow got €2.62kg, and the 3rd from the aax cow got €2.47kg. Exporter only bought the one from the aax as he'd already bought the other two and wanted to fill a load. Also worth noting is the bull from the simx cow had the best lwg so it got €60 more than the bull from the lmx.

Decisions, decisions, in a way there are too many options out there now!

Juniorhurler

Bizzum wrote: »

Have you identified why? Is it coming from the cows, is it a particular cow type? Do you need to cull harder? Or do you need to use a different sire on these cows?
You sound like the rest of us/ or at least me, a work in progress!
Reaching a certain standard takes time, work, and a shake of luck!

Ya we kinda know why. We have mainly blonde cows. We felt that as the more blonde they got the less milk they had so we bought in some black limousin springers to breed replacements from. Two of these are from bought in stock ( 1 actually in calf to a friesian bull but we bought as in calf to limo:mad:). Another one bought in off dairy neighbour to replace a lost calf. The last couple from cows with angus too close in their back breeding. Now there is nothing wrong with angus but they will not cross well with blues.

just do it

Simx

Are you looking at autumn calving? For these especially you want to make sure the cows have milk.

just do it

Some further food for thought. If and when the US market opens up they will be after meat from traditional breeds....

1chippy

I walked a field of bullocks recently with a finisher i know. mainly continentals only a few angus in it. angus were all lighter alright but far closer to finishing and also a lot younger. finisher reckoned that altough they werent what he aimed to buy, he said he would make the most profit on them. As has been said on here a few times before, with meal prices high and trying to finish earlier and off grass they definately could be an option for down the line. I'm not changing from current set up but definately one to watch

Mac Taylor

With the way grain prices are going and the potential lack of quality silage available, the finishers are going to be under pressure which surely will have a impact of price come Autumn