O2 won't cover my warranty

homerun_homer

Hi all,
Wondering what I can do about this issue. Last September I bought a Samsung Galaxy S2 from an O2 store and while on holidays in Porto early last month it started acting up. I've never been a messy person with phones and always take good care of what I own so this has never been open to damage from dropping it or spilling anything on it.

It got to the point of barely being usable so I brought it in to the store and they did some checks and decided it should be sent away (which is what I wanted and thought was required). I had a 2 year warranty with the phone and as I gave it in they seemed very assured that it would be returned good as new.

A week later I get a text to collect my phone. I arrive to bad news. Liquid damage they tell me corroded the USB port and warranty doesn't cover liquid damage What else doesn't the warranty cover if that is the case.
I told the guy it's never had anything spilled on it ever and he replied that "it can be caused by rain or condesation". So my phone apparently absolutely cannot be used in the rain, ever? Who can honestly say they haven't been on their phone or mid text while it rained on them? If it rains I put away my phone as soon as I can.
On a trip to Dublin today a colleague from work told me his wife worked for a mobile phone company and they were told when they received damaged goods to always go back with "Liquid Damage" regardless of the problem. At the weekend my brother in law said I should contact the National Consumer Agency about it to see what they recommend.
Has anyone ever had this issue, what course of action did you take or has anyone contacted the NCA with something like this?

I just need to know if it is worthwhile in the long run.

foggy_lad

you could have the phone independantly examined but they may say the same or you could insist on getting all the reports of the testing that was supposed to have been done and have someone go through that to see what they can find. You could also try bringing it to a different phone menders and ask them to examine the phone but they will charge for this as the phone is now branded as officially customer damaged.

homerun_homer

I like the idea of independent examination. Who or where can do this?

bryaner

Op I'd go back in look for the report and bluff them that your getting it independently assessed see what happens, if they don't buckle get it checked and if it's not liquid damage head for the small claims, shower of <SNIP>..

Very common fob-off excuse, I don't believe it the majority of the time. Generally if it's true you can request photos of the supposed damage.

homerun_homer

I have the report and it says;

Your phone has extensively been tested by Fonemenders and a technician has found your unit not repairable due to liquid damage - such phones that have been damaged by liquid or moisture are in repairable. Liquid damage invalidates the manufacturers warranty and will render your phone to be Beyond Economical Repair due to corrosion on the main board.

It also came with a red printed sheet listing the 2 reasons they have for why something came be considered beyond economical repair an they are Liquid damage and Physical Damage.

It looks like unless I obviously crack/break the phone by dropping it that they use the Liquid Damage excuse regardless.

bryaner

<SNIP> fonebenders another shower of <SNIP>, are they even authorised warranty agents for Samsung?

bryaner

bryaner wrote: »

<SNIP> fonebenders another shower of <SNIP>, are they even authorised warranty agents for Samsung?

Are they authorised warranty agents for anyone? Certainly not Apple for sure.

bryaner

Karsini wrote: »

bryaner wrote: »

<SNIP> fonebenders another shower of <SNIP>, are they even authorised warranty agents for Samsung?

Are they authorised warranty agents for anyone? Certainly not Apple for sure.

Well they have no right in opening any phone if the're not authorised..

homerun_homer

What is NOT covered by your warranty

The Samsung warranty covers manufacturing defects only. Please note that this does not include consumable items such as batteries, bulbs, ink cartridges etc. The liability of Samsung Electronics (or its appointed maintenance agent) is limited to the cost of repair and/ or replacement of the product under warranty. The warranty is invalidated if the defect is caused (howsoever) by misuse, neglect, and tampering or incorrect adjustment. It is invalidated if unauthorised persons carry out any alterations or repairs.

bryaner

homerun_homer wrote: »

What is NOT covered by your warranty

The Samsung warranty covers manufacturing defects only. Please note that this does not include consumable items such as batteries, bulbs, ink cartridges etc. The liability of Samsung Electronics (or its appointed maintenance agent) is limited to the cost of repair and/ or replacement of the product under warranty. The warranty is invalidated if the defect is caused (howsoever) by misuse, neglect, and tampering or incorrect adjustment. It is invalidated if unauthorised persons carry out any alterations or repairs.

Could be worth a call Op

http://m.samsung.com/ie/info/contactus.html#contact1

kujosHeist

homerun_homer wrote: »

On a trip to Dublin today a colleague from work told me his wife worked for a mobile phone company and they were told when they received damaged goods to always go back with "Liquid Damage" regardless of the problem..

The phone repair companys get paid for each phone they repair so its not in their interest to send it back unfixed.

bryaner

I'm just thinking here, I used to work for a company and one of the things we sold were automotive batteries, the fella that sold us the batteries bought them with no warranty and got a discount on them (he would have to honour the warranty).

Would o2 and the other providers be using similar tactics and using fonebenders to carry out their warranty work?

Just a thought..

foggy_lad

bryaner wrote: »

I'm just thinking here, I used to work for a company and one of the things we sold were automotive batteries, the fella that sold us the batteries bought them with no warranty and got a discount on them (he would have to honour the warranty).

Would o2 and the other providers be using similar tactics and using fonebenders to carry out their warranty work?

Just a thought..

I know someone who used to work in a small hardware shop and the owner would regularly have a loud argument with genuine customers who had brought back stuff that had broken due to defects etc. They would tell him he had to take items back and repair replace or refund but his attitude was that even though the distributor had agreed to take back and credit for any returns even if there was doubt about it being customer damage this ignorant shopkeeper did not want "them basterds" as he called his customers getting the idea they had the right to return anything!

Imho phone shops appear to work on the same principles.

subway

if you are telling the truth, deny it was misued, in wiriting to them (do not lie)
give them 14 days to accept that they are incorrect or you will lodge with the SCC.
if they dont reply, take it to SCC, swear an affidavit that it was never subject to misuse other than what would be expected as standard.

their case will not stand up in court if they cannot prove the phone was misused

homerun_homer

subway wrote: »

if you are telling the truth, deny it was misued, in wiriting to them (do not lie)
give them 14 days to accept that they are incorrect or you will lodge with the SCC.
if they dont reply, take it to SCC, swear an affidavit that it was never subject to misuse other than what would be expected as standard.

their case will not stand up in court if they cannot prove the phone was misused

I am telling the truth, the only liquid this phone has been in touch with is rain and that is beyond anyone's control in this country.

I contact the NCA and they told me to write them a letter and I could use the template they have on their site. If I get no response in the time I give them (10 days) then I can inform them that I will take it up with SCC.

subway

cool, well that's the path i would take. you can tell they arent going to engage with you so it will need a registrar to make a judgement.

i would also advise, to make an effort to speak to a manager (in person) and politely explain the situation, you should also make every effort to get the name of the head of customer service (or equivalent) in order to ensure your letter will reach the right person / department. they can't use ignorance of your letter as an excuse, but it will stand to you if you have given the company plenty of chances to hear your case.

if it does go to court, explain all the sitautions you would normally use your phone in, provide as much evidence as you can to support your case that the phone was well treated. photographic evidence of its condition, links to cases online that demonstrate similar symptoms, links that explain what happen when the phone is subject to actual misuse etc.

basically, you don't have to prove the phone wasn't water damaged, there's every possibility that it was (condesnation, rain, vapor from your breath, etc), but that the fault that occured was through normal use. if the phone gets water damaged from being taken out in the rain, is this a reasonable expectation from a phone, if it is, does the manufacturer advise this (most reasonable people would expect to be able to use a moblie phone outdoors, and it rains a lot in ireland so do the math). dont get into a technical battle with them, you are not expected to be technical, just a reasonable person.

good luck with it and let us know how you get on (and if it does go to court)

McGrath5

I was under the impression that the more phones fonemenders successfully repair, the more they are paid. So is it not in fonemenders interest to successfully repair as many phones are reasonably possible?

homerun_homer

Perfect Choice wrote: »

I was under the impression that the more phones fonemenders successfully repair, the more they are paid. So is it not in fonemenders interest to successfully repair as many phones are reasonably possible?

Even at that, if my phone is not covered by warranty should I not be offered a charge to get it fixed? It seems incredibly ridiculous that some corrosion in a USB port would make the phone completely unfixable.

GreeBo

homerun_homer wrote: »

Even at that, if my phone is not covered by warranty should I not be offered a charge to get it fixed? It seems incredibly ridiculous that some corrosion in a USB port would make the phone completely unfixable.

They replace usb ports all the time (I've had 2 done on my S2 due to a dodgy charger)
I have found fonemenders to be excellent.
The only reason they wouldnt mend it is if they know that Samsung /O2 wont cover their costs because it was damaged due to water.

homerun_homer

GreeBo wrote: »

They replace usb ports all the time (I've had 2 done on my S2 due to a dodgy charger)
I have found fonemenders to be excellent.
The only reason they wouldnt mend it is if they know that Samsung /O2 wont cover their costs because it was damaged due to water.

And there is the d1ck in the shop telling me to send it away for recycling, if it can be fixed then I'll be satisfied.

bryaner

homerun_homer wrote: »

subway wrote: »

if you are telling the truth, deny it was misued, in wiriting to them (do not lie)
give them 14 days to accept that they are incorrect or you will lodge with the SCC.
if they dont reply, take it to SCC, swear an affidavit that it was never subject to misuse other than what would be expected as standard.

their case will not stand up in court if they cannot prove the phone was misused

I am telling the truth, the only liquid this phone has been in touch with is rain and that is beyond anyone's control in this country.

I contact the NCA and they told me to write them a letter and I could use the template they have on their site. If I get no response in the time I give them (10 days) then I can inform them that I will take it up with SCC.

That's the shot Op give them both barrels

bryaner

GreeBo wrote: »

homerun_homer wrote: »

Even at that, if my phone is not covered by warranty should I not be offered a charge to get it fixed? It seems incredibly ridiculous that some corrosion in a USB port would make the phone completely unfixable.

They replace usb ports all the time (I've had 2 done on my S2 due to a dodgy charger)
I have found fonemenders to be excellent.
The only reason they wouldnt mend it is if they know that Samsung /O2 wont cover their costs because it was damaged due to water.

Have a quick look at this thread http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055672988?page=1#post_61963648

And then do a boards search for fonemenders and see how many problems people have had with them. There're a very hit and miss shower of ****** fonebenders..

homerun_homer

Update: I contacted Samsung to hear what they would say on the matter and they want to have a look at the phone so are sending me a pack for me to return the phone, complete with a copy of receipt and description of the faults. They will then check to see what the issue is and get back to me.

It's better to come from the horses mouth as any I suppose.

subway

how are samsung going to know if you misused your phone?
you are wasting your time and weakening your case.

this is all they check
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1456563

Heart Break Kid

bryaner wrote: »

<SNIP> fonebenders another shower of <SNIP>, are they even authorised warranty agents for Samsung?

Fonemenders aren't that bad, they've done well by me on all occasions.
Had the same problem as the OP, If you look at the USB connection, you will probably see that its gone green or discolored in some way, basically corroded. It happens, O2 hasn't done anything wrong. Its outside your warranty.
Its tough to except but they have no reason to fob you off, they aren't paying for the repair at the end of the day, its samsung who covers the costs.

I got quoted by FONFIX at 150 euro, dropped down to Fonemenders, they just replaced it for 40 blips and then had it verified by samsung, came back as good as new, they even booted it to 4.0.

Happy camper.

subway

thats all well and good, but you could have saved yourself 40eu if you knew your consumer rights. (asuming your phone also became faulty through normal use)

Heart Break Kid

subway wrote: »

thats all well and good, but you could have saved yourself 40eu if you knew your consumer rights. (asuming your phone also became faulty through normal use)

i work for the shop i bought my s2 and i know my consumer rights. I could clearly see the usb was corroded, i understand that there is no way that the damage could occur by anything else by liquid. So i was happy to pay 40 blips from a quoted price of 50 to get it fixed.

subway

unfortunately, the fact that you work in a phone shop, gives you a severe bias in this matter. phone shop employees have, for years, been shown to repeatedly give misleading advice on this forum "because that's shop policy" etc

condensation and other forms of moisture encroach are to be expected on devices such as phones which will regualrly be in many different environments (hot trains, sweaty nightclubs, humid / damp outdoor areas, etc, etc)
a device like this should reasonably be expected to withstand such environmental factors (how long do the vast majority of phones last?) so one that does not, where the user can support a claim of correct use, could reasonably deemed to be faulty or poor quality.

bryaner

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

i work for the shop i bought my s2 and i know my consumer rights. I could clearly see the usb was corroded, i understand that there is no way that the damage could occur by anything else by liquid. So i was happy to pay 40 blips from a quoted price of 50 to get it fixed.

So did you introduce your phone to some form of liquid?

homerun_homer

Update: I know not everyone would agree with the fact I got in touch with Samsung to see what would happen there (possibly weaken my case as a result) but the envelope they sent with a packet for me to send them the phone to check arrived. It is not from Samsung however but Fonemenders.

Now I definitely don't want to send it so I'm contemplating ringing Samsung again and telling them I do not want to go around in circles, I want a fixed phone and blame their design flaw for not making a device that can protect itself/combat condensation or rain.

homerun_homer

I rang Samsung and said that Fonemenders dealt with this case originally and I didn't want this to be going around in circles. The customer support guy from Samsung called fonemenders while I waited and returned with the same info "the phone is damaged from as the result of liquid" etc and I asked why no one was offering to fix my phone since he mentioned the USB port can be replaced, this is something posters of the Samsun S2 thread in Tech have had done also without mentioning liquid damage as a problem.

So now he's left it up to me to go get it repaired by calling into them myself. If I do that and they fix it then I should still take up a case with O2 for advising me to recycle and also for the clerk not returning my protective cover which he apparently lost the week before when I gave him the phone.

JimsAlterEgo

if you are 100% certain that it is normal liquid damage (if at all) from normal usage and will swear that in court, go to small claims court. Phones should be able to withstand normal levels of moisture. Their terms dont override consumer law.

bryaner

The Scc will be your best bet homer..

homerun_homer

Brought the phone to an independant phone repair person. He has seen the problem before and says it is €40 to fix it, will be ready Monday.

My thinking, if successful is to give O2 a copy of the receipt and the NCA letter I initially wrote and update it to say they gave me no option to fix the phone and
I want them to now cover the costs as I wasted so much time & phone credit investigating all my options when they could have sorted everything there and then, giving me only an option to lose €300 by recycling the phone.

bryaner

homerun_homer wrote: »

Brought the phone to an independant phone repair person. He has seen the problem before and says it is €40 to fix it, will be ready Monday.

My thinking, if successful is to give O2 a copy of the receipt and the NCA letter I initially wrote and update it to say they gave me no option to fix the phone and
I want them to now cover the costs as I wasted so much time & phone credit investigating all my options when they could have sorted everything there and then, giving me only an option to lose €300 by recycling the phone.

Just shows you the calibre of fonebenders!!

homerun_homer

Update - O2 called me back after receiving my letter and said that they aren't allowed to offer a fix if their repair company deems it out of warranty even if it is just a small fee, as they can't be held liable again if the phone breaks for similar/other reason. The same thing goes for recommending you go to a vendor yourself to get the phone fixed.

Total rubbish.

subway

just pay the independent phone shop to fix it, you clearly arent interested in taking consumer advice.

its now 20 days since i told you how to resolve this.

homerun_homer

homerun_homer wrote: »

I contacted the NCA and they told me to write them a letter and I could use the template they have on their site. If I get no response in the time I give them (10 days) then I can inform them that I will take it up with SCC.

subway wrote: »

cool, well that's the path i would take. you can tell they arent going to engage with you so it will need a registrar to make a judgement.

subway wrote: »

just pay the independent phone shop to fix it, you clearly arent interested in taking consumer advice.

its now 20 days since i told you how to resolve this.

What part of the above says I'm not taking the consumer advice? I did as I outlined above. I got contact from O2 in the time frame. It's unsatisfactory and I'm not sure taking it to SCC would do anything since they probably have themselves covered with their stupid policies. The phone is already repaired and paid for, I appreciate your postings but no need to get cranky with me for posting an update on the matter.

subway

i'm giving my time posting here for free.
i'm annoyed that you asked for help, didn't heed any of it and have ended up ripped off anyway.

I'm not sure taking it to SCC would do anything since they probably have themselves covered with their stupid policies

you would have won, but o2 win again because lazy consumers wont stand up for their rights. Its extremly frustrating for those of us who take time to help people

homerun_homer

subway wrote: »

i'm giving my time posting here for free.
i'm annoyed that you asked for help, didn't heed any of it and have ended up ripped off anyway.


you would have won, but o2 win again because lazy consumers wont stand up for their rights. Its extremly frustrating for those of us who take time to help people

It's still the option I am willing and want to do. I only had the call with O2 before I posted the update. Before going the small claims route I would have to figure out what my case & rights are versus what the manager told me on the phone.