Best 180 grain+ .308 hunting ammo

Tommy87

Hey guys, anyone have any ideas for good .308 ammo In the 180+ grain region??? My barrel is a 1/10 twist so I'm lookin for a heavier bullet. I'm currently using lapua naturalis, pretty good but im wondering if anyone has any experience with another brand??

Cheers

poulo6.5

Tommy87 wrote: »

Hey guys, anyone have any ideas for good .308 ammo In the 180+ grain region??? My barrel is a 1/10 twist so I'm lookin for a heavier bullet. I'm currently using lapua naturalis, pretty good but im wondering if anyone has any experience with another brand??

Cheers

What are you hunting/shooting that you need 180g bullets for.

I use 150g SST in my .308 and they are plenty enough for deer stalking. They are fast and flat enough to give me a good PBR out to about 225y for quick shooting. I reciently bought a box of 165g SST to try out but I have not tried them yet so can't comment.

I would think that 180g's would only be of any use for close up stuff that needs a big round like driven boar or something like that.

Tommy87

It's for deer stalking. I have it since march(missed the whole season because of an 11 month wait for my licence!) ive tried everything from 125grain to 150gr sst. Federal soft point, hornady soft points, even all the fmj ammo. Can't get a decent group.

So I took it to Fergal white in athlone for a new stock and glass bedding job and pillar bed the action, but he suggested that all I needed was to change to heavier ammo as the barrel is a 1/10 twist. So I went for an adjustable trigger and muzzle brake instead. Its a ruger m77 mark ii so the trigger is a joke. Can't wait to get it back and try the new ammo. Should be a lot better with the lighter trigger aswell.

What is the twist rate in your .308 btw??

Cass

Tried out a few Federal power-shok, 180gr when i had the 1-10. Done well in it. Not as well as others, but in the shops i frequent these were the heaviest hunting rounds i found.

Also cheaper than other brands. €30 or so per 20.

richiedel123

Can't get a decent group.
Are you using the ruger rings on the gun?

Tommy87

I find it very hard to find anything heavier than 150gr. I'm trying to find some federal vital shock, according to the website they have 180grain nosler partition and 180grain trophy bonded tip. I'm in north Kerry and I asked my local dealer to order these and when I went back all he got me was 2 different kinds of fmj ammo!!! He must either be hard of hearing or not really give a toss!!

I wouldn't mind travelling a bit for them if it would sort out my problem. Either that or a hearing aid for the dealer!!

Tommy87

richiedel123 wrote: »

Can't get a decent group.
Are you using the ruger rings on the gun?

I had to change the rings as I got a scope with a 25mm tube. But they are ruger rings. Do you think it could be scope/rings problem??

Cass

I bought mine in Stakelums, but have not bought them in a while nor have i been down to Sean i a couple of months.

Give him a call, and ask. He is in Thurles. Bit of a trip for you though.

richiedel123

Tommy87 wrote: »

richiedel123 wrote: »

Can't get a decent group.
Are you using the ruger rings on the gun?

I had to change the rings as I got a scope with a 25mm tube. But they are ruger rings. Do you think it could be scope/rings problem??

First thing you do is change the rings I had the same gun and tried 3 different scopes on it and could never get good groups or hold zero wit it so I changed rings and it made the world of difference. Look on YouTube for ruger ring lapping and ya will see the problem. I used federal fusion 150 grain once I changed the rings and found they held zero well

Tommy87

Ezridax wrote: »

I bought mine in Stakelums, but have not bought them in a while nor have i been down to Sean i a couple of months.

Give him a call, and ask. He is in Thurles. Bit of a trip for you though.

Cheers, I will him a buzz sometime, I work in limerick so I'll try a guy in askeaton aswell. I didn't realise how scarce the rfd are until I had to look for something specific. Have you ever tried lapua naturalis or mega??

I wonder would it be a big job to change the barrel for one with a diff twist??

Tommy87

richiedel123 wrote: »

First thing you do is change the rings I had the same gun and tried 3 different scopes on it and could never get good groups or hold zero wit it so I changed rings and it made the world of difference. Look on YouTube for ruger ring lapping and ya will see the problem. I used federal fusion 150 grain once I changed the rings and found they held zero well

Cheers for that rich, I will definatly look into that.

richiedel123

Tommy87 wrote: »

Cheers for that rich, I will definatly look into that.

It took me ages realise it was rings everyone said it couldn't be that they are machine made and don't go wrong but after searching I decided try it and it solved it so it's worth a try

Cass

Tommy87 wrote: »

Have you ever tried lapua naturalis or mega??

Tried Lapua Naturalis in 170gr (donated to me by a mate), but on testing at 100 yards in a fairly average wind i was not impressed, and so never used in the field.

poulo6.5

Tommy87 wrote: »

It's for deer stalking. I have it since march(missed the whole season because of an 11 month wait for my licence!) ive tried everything from 125grain to 150gr sst. Federal soft point, hornady soft points, even all the fmj ammo. Can't get a decent group.

So I took it to Fergal white in athlone for a new stock and glass bedding job and pillar bed the action, but he suggested that all I needed was to change to heavier ammo as the barrel is a 1/10 twist. So I went for an adjustable trigger and muzzle brake instead. Its a ruger m77 mark ii so the trigger is a joke. Can't wait to get it back and try the new ammo. Should be a lot better with the lighter trigger aswell.

What is the twist rate in your .308 btw??

i have 2 .308 at the moment. one is 1-10 and i have fired everything from 125g-168g with no problem
it could be something as simple as the scope and rings. it might be a good idea to take them off and clean everything and refit.

tomcat220t

180gr s/p in .308 is going to be way too slow and not expand quick enough for irish size deer ,imo .

tac foley

tomcat220t wrote: »

180gr s/p in .308 is going to be way too slow and not expand quick enough for irish size deer ,imo .

:eek:

Run that by me one more time, please.

Do you mean that the Irish deer do not present enough body-mass to effectively ensure expansion?

tac

tomcat220t

tac foley wrote: »

:eek:

Run that by me one more time, please.

Do you mean that the Irish deer do not present enough body-mass to effectively ensure expansion?

tac

No thats not what is said !

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

No thats not what is said !

I read it the same was as Tac...

What did you mean?

tomcat220t

Glensman wrote: »

I read it the same was as Tac...

What did you mean?

IMO,it would be a poor choice of round for irish deer !


Whys ,Whats ,Wheres ....when ever i go further in a topic lately its the same few who google stuff just to contradict what i post .
Slow ,high weight retention round tend to be a poor combination for irish deer ,IMO!

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

IMO,it would be a poor choice of round for irish deer !


Whys ,Whats ,Wheres ....when ever i go further in a topic lately its the same few who google stuff just to contradict what i post .
Slow ,high weight retention round tend to be a poor combination for irish deer ,IMO!

I'm not getting at you.
When I read your post I thought you meant that it would probably pass through a lot of deer without expending it's energy...

I can't argue with that. (although It's maybe not what you meant at all)

I find that 130gr SSTs out of my 270 go in one side and out the other. Although they do terrible damage, the fact that they are exiting means they aren't using All of their energy

tomcat220t

Glensman wrote: »

I'm not getting at you.
When I read your post I thought you meant that it would probably pass through a lot of deer without expending it's energy...

I can't argue with that. (although It's maybe not what you meant at all)

I find that 130gr SSTs out of my 270 go in one side and out the other. Although they do terrible damage, the fact that they are exiting means they aren't using All of their energy

Your bang on about SSTs ...mate used them for a while last seasion and found them to be pinning deer aswell .
The same with the federal power-shok, was another round last year that seen poor results 140gr in 6.5x55.
Just not dumping it energy quick enough for the small deer here in ireland .
Now im sure guys will say different im only posting what ive seen .
Maybe a 180 gr s/p Power shok in 300 win or 30-06 would be better .

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Your bang on about SSTs ...mate used them for a while last seasion and found them to be pinning deer aswell .
The same with the federal power-shok, was another round last year that seen poor results 140gr in 6.5x55.
Just not dumping it energy quick enough for the small deer here in ireland .
Now im sure guys will say different im only posting what ive seen .
Maybe a 180 gr s/p Power shok in 300 win or 30-06 would be better .

I don't think it's worth me moving from the SSTs. They are doing ferocious damage- just that they do exit...

I think maybe the .270 is just overgunned for everything but Reds.
Maybe a 243 or 25-06 would be a better do-all calibre...

Luckily I think I have some Reds permission in Scotland for next season- so I wont be rushing out to change the .270

rowa

I used .308 federal 180 grain rounds once to shoot sika , it was all i could buy apart from fmj as it was late in the season and dealers were out of stock, complete overkill , i only shot one sika with them and the carcase was mangled. I wouldn't use them again.

tac foley

tomcat220t wrote: »

IMO,it would be a poor choice of round for irish deer !

Whys ,Whats ,Wheres ....when ever i go further in a topic lately its the same few who google stuff just to contradict what i post .
Slow ,high weight retention round tend to be a poor combination for irish deer ,IMO!

Sir - Nobody here, especially me, is contradicting you, simply trying to understand what you are aiming at. You've already seen that there are those here who agree with you about using a bigger slower bullet on Irish deer, with the implication that Irish deer, in general, are not big enough to ensure maximum expansion of such a bullet.

It's a fact that a well-placed .308Win round of the right type can drop any quadruped in Ireland, but using such a heavy round as a 180gr anything on a tiny 100-150 pound beast sure seems like a waste of time to me.

All my shooting of game has been with smaller cartridges. Back in 1990, a 140gr Norma 6.5x55SE dropped an elk for me that weighed in over a thousand pounds. It coughed once and keeled over and that was it.

I'd opine that a .25-06 or any of the faster-stepping 6mm or thereabouts with the right bullet would do the job on anything in Ireland, as shown in a recent video on 'Field Sports', where the boss of Norma AB used a smaller calibre than .308Win to great effect.

And BTW, thanks for including me in your insult 'the same few' - that remark actually makes me pretty happy. Shows that I'm just as big a self-opinionated g&bsh£te as all the rest of us here.:D

tac

tomcat220t

tomcat220t wrote: »

180gr s/p in .308 is going to be way too slow and not expand quick enough for irish size deer ,imo .

tac foley wrote: »

:eek:

Run that by me one more time, please.

Do you mean that the Irish deer do not present enough body-mass to effectively ensure expansion?

tac

How was what is posted so confusing to you ,at the time ?

tac foley wrote: »

And BTW, thanks for including me in your insult 'the same few' - that remark actually makes me pretty happy. Shows that I'm just as big a self-opinionated g&bsh£te as all the rest of us here.:D

tac

Your been a bit hard on yourself now ,SIR:P:P
Im pretty sure that your replys are not googled,if that makes you feel any better ;)I regard most of what you post as common sense and educational to shooting !
Regards,Tomcat.

Robotack

I can't be one of the few as I'm an occasional poster and don't believe I've commented on any Tomcat posts to date but I have to admit that I too was confused but am glad now that it's been cleared up.

I reckon that if the OP gets the groups he wants from his rifle with 180gr loads, then that's more inportant than getting into the finer points of bullet expansions etc. 150gr... 180gr... Irish Deer... Canadian Deer... I doubt either nationallity will get back up after being hit by either round.

Go with what works for you I say.

tomcat220t

Its the speed of the bullet that plays a factor in how well a bullet will expand . If that slow heavy s/p is lucky enough to hit bone it would work better but if not ........IMO it stands a good chance of pinning the likes of a 25-45kg IRISH DEER !I know the reds are bigger .
Ive seen the effects of slow s/p rounds .....i would say that the op needs to look more into his set and find a 140-160 gr (faster) round for stalking .
I havent seen Canadian deer but if their white tail then their a lot bigger than sika . Maybe you could fill me ,please ?

Tommy87

tomcat220t wrote: »

Its the speed of the bullet that plays a factor in how well a bullet will expand . If that slow heavy s/p is lucky enough to hit bone it would work better but if not ........IMO it stands a good chance of pinning the likes of a 25-45kg IRISH DEER !I know the reds are bigger .
Ive seen the effects of slow s/p rounds .....i would say that the op needs to look more into his set and find a 140-160 gr (faster) round for stalking .
I havent seen Canadian deer but if their white tail then their a lot bigger than sika . Maybe you could fill me ,please ?

Thanks for the advice tomcat. I have looked into the setup and am in the middle of some modifications which should make a big difference.

Thanks to everyone who has posted with advice and help, I will take everything on board and hopefully I will have a tack driver very soon!!

Regards tommy!

ssl

I always understood that the term pinning is a shot placed at the shoulder so an animal cannot run once hit

deerhunter1

Tommy87 wrote: »

Hey guys, anyone have any ideas for good .308 ammo In the 180+ grain region??? My barrel is a 1/10 twist so I'm lookin for a heavier bullet. I'm currently using lapua naturalis, pretty good but im wondering if anyone has any experience with another brand??

Cheers

Remington Core Lokt

ejg

Tommy87, what kind of grouping are you achieving with varies 150gr? (maybe I over saw it)
What kind of grouping are you hoping for?
If you find a cartridge that does 1.5" or better, then practice with it. Sometimes a barrel
and the shooter gets better over time when sticking to one thing. Adjust your stalking to your and the rifles ability. ....and get on with it
I have a custom 1/10 twist 308 which shoots 150 to 190gr without a difference. 308's are normally not that fussy.

I have seen very accurate rugers but also a few lemons just like other brands.
edi

Tommy87

ejg wrote: »

Tommy87, what kind of grouping are you achieving with varies 150gr? (maybe I over saw it)
What kind of grouping are you hoping for?
If you find a cartridge that does 1.5" or better, then practice with it. Sometimes a barrel
and the shooter gets better over time when sticking to one thing. Adjust your stalking to your and the rifles ability. ....and get on with it
I have a custom 1/10 twist 308 which shoots 150 to 190gr without a difference. 308's are normally not that fussy.

I have seen very accurate rugers but also a few lemons just like other brands.
edi

Hey ejg,

I was using 150grain hornady softpoints, shooting a target at 240 yards, I was putting 3 shots inside the size of a fiver. I have a few pics but can't get them up off my phone. The 3 shots are stretching the length of the fiver ( nearly 5inches) but no difference in elevation, all in a straight line across.

I was thinkin the 3 shots should be closer together at this range???

dev110

Tommy87 wrote: »

I was using 150grain hornady softpoints, shooting a target at 240 yards, I was putting 3 shots inside the size of a fiver. I have a few pics but can't get them up off my phone. The 3 shots are stretching the length of the fiver ( nearly 5inches) but no difference in elevation, all in a straight line across.

I was thinkin the 3 shots should be closer together at this range???

Vertical spread is usually the fault of the shooter/ammo. Horizontal spread is usually down to wind.

Was it windy the day you tested them?

Tommy87

dev110 wrote: »

Vertical spread is usually the fault of the shooter/ammo. Horizontal spread is usually down to wind.

Was it windy the day you tested them?

There was a breeze alright, nothing major. I can send a pic of it if anyone wants to pm their number.

I suppose for my needs it is good enough.

dev110

There is two 3 shot groups in the middle. The other four were zeroing.


I think these could be tightened in. There is little to no vertical.

How do they perform at 100 yards?

Tommy87

Dev, I started at 40yards, 3 shots pretty much in the same hole. Then ar 100 they are nearly identicle to the picture only closer together.

So I put it down to ammo??

dev110

I'm thinking it could be done to your hold or maybe a heavy trigger.

Here is a thread from the target shooting forum from a lad with a .243:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056491309

Then here is the result after changing hold:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76248649

Here is a post from Ezridax explaining the difference from curling your thumb around the stock vs leaving it resting behind the bolt:

Ezridax wrote:

Trigger weight is important. I usually set mine for between 1.5 - 2 lb. For the target rifle it is much lighter.

Other than that the first thing i would recommend, as i have done to others with immediate and significant improvement is hold. The average hunter/stalker has the same grip. When it comes to target shooting either at a bench or prone you need to adapt your grip/hold.

First thing i would recommend is the position of your thumb. Most people place the thumb across the back of the stock, curl it round, and get a good tight grip on the stock. See pic A.



When out in the field shoot in a standing this grip is fine as you need to be on target, but not pin holing the shots. A deer is bigger than a paper target. However when you hold the rifle with this grip you put push/pull pressure on the rifle/stock. By this i mean the natural gerip of a person wants to twist the stock. Now while holding the rifle this motion is not evident however the very second you fire this "twisting" movement is exaggerated by recoil, and results in shots going off. In this case, as with a right handed person the shot normally goes high and right.

To resolve this i always tell people that when shooting in a target environment to move the thumb, and fight the natural urge to grip the stock. The best place for the thumb i find (with a hunting style stock) is along the back of the stock/grip with the thumb tip and the back of the bolt. See pic B;



This style of hold eliminates the majority of "twist". The other tip i would give is the position of the fingers around the front of the grip. You have two choices here depending on your personal choice.

You can wrap the hand/fingers around the front of the grip as is natural. However do not press the fingertips into the stock. IOW do not clench your hand and use a death grip. See pic C;




The other option is, as i would use, the fingers straight out and using the bottom of the fingers (palm side of knuckles) in a straight pull action. This pulls the stock back into your shoulder in a straight line, and without any pressure from the fingers you get no twist. Really its what feels comfortable. See pic D;




I have shown this to a few lads, including tommyboy26, and dev110 here and they saw an immediate improvement. After that they work on the specifics that best suits themselves. It'll take a while because your natural instinct is to grasp the stock. Thing is to take your time, move the thumb, then pull the stock straight back into you.

Do not try and stop the recoil. Its not possible. You need to get your body position in such a way that the recoil comes back into the shoulder, the shoulder goes back, then forward, and the gun returns to its original firing position or as close as possible.

The last final tip i would give is the position of the gun and stock. You want the recoil pad and your shoulder in as true a line as possible with the boe line of the rifle. This will reduce or eliminate muzzle flip as the recoil comes straight back into the shoulder. If the shoulder is below the boreline the recoil wil push the rifle back, and when it gets resistance with the shoulder it will lift the muzzle to "continue" the recoil.

In the picture below the blue line represents the barrel/bore, the red line represents the bore line, and the green marks the ideal position of the butt pad. See how the boreline disects the position of the butt pad to give a good body/shoulder position.




Hope some of that helps, and is clear.

Tommy87

The rifle is in at the minute getting the trigger changed to an adjustable one so that will help anyway! The old trigger,which was non adjustable, was 7lb! It was a nightmare!

That's very interesting information. I can't wait to try it out. Thanks very much dev!

dev110

7lb :eek:

You should see a big difference when you get your new trigger.

Cass

With 7lb of weight on the trigger you would be pulling so hard that you would pull the rifle to the side, and as we all know any small movement at the rifle is exaggerated at distance.

You will find that you have increased "tension" in your arm, and shoulder as you try to pull the trigger. Are you right handed? If so the shots would always be pulled right due to natural movement of the arm, hand, etc. Ideal weight for a hunting set up (for me anyway) would be between 1.5-2. Some prefer a little heavier and that's fine, but 7lb is ridiculously heavy. You done well to hold the groups you were getting with the trigger at that.