Caught speeding in NI

M three

Hi,
Thread similar to this from 2009 but is closed.
I'm an ROI resident with ROI license.
Was pulled by psni for speeding in NI, was doing 80 in a 60mph zone.
Didn't have license on me at the time, I had cleared out the car to clean it the day before.
As I had no photo id on me, they couldn't verify my address, so arrested me, and I had to lodge 200sterling with them so I appear for the court date in a few weeks. was let go when they had taken my details.
Policeman said the eventual fine by the judge will be less than 200 so I'll just get the difference back.
Policeman said points from NI cant be put on my license.
Anyone experience of a similar situation?

Appreciate any advice.

CJhaughey

You will probably be required to attend a Speed awareness course in the North as part of the punishment.

corktina

advice? what do you need to know? you'll get a part refund in due course.

minsbarron

Wow, this is very harsh. I was stopped late one night on a very dark but busy road by the PSNI. I was clocked doing 87 mph in a 60 mph zone. I asked him for ID first before I wound down my window as it was so dark I couldn't even make out his uniform. He wasn't best pleased with this. I showed him my ROI driver's licence & he wrote out a fine for me to pay within 28 days of 19STG. Paid it gladly. No points as they can't transfer they over or something.
I was told they can only arrest you if you are over 90 mph, ie., 30 mph over the speed limit. Why the Court date now? Why such a high fine compared to the one I got? Yes, you need advice indeed. I'd be instructing an NI Solicitor to defend you mate.

MugMugs

M three wrote: »

Hi,
Thread similar to this from 2009 but is closed.
I'm an ROI resident with ROI license.
Was pulled by psni for speeding in NI, was doing 80 in a 60mph zone.
Didn't have license on me at the time, I had cleared out the car to clean it the day before.
As I had no photo id on me, they couldn't verify my address, so arrested me, and I had to lodge 200sterling with them so I appear for the court date in a few weeks. was let go when they had taken my details.
Policeman said the eventual fine by the judge will be less than 200 so I'll just get the difference back.
Policeman said points from NI cant be put on my license.
Anyone experience of a similar situation?

Go to court, pay the fine, receive the remainder of your 200 back. Simples

Appreciate any advice.

minsbarron wrote: »

Wow, this is very harsh. I was stopped late one night on a very dark but busy road by the PSNI. I was clocked doing 87 mph in a 60 mph zone. I asked him for ID first before I wound down my window as it was so dark I couldn't even make out his uniform. He wasn't best pleased with this. I showed him my ROI driver's licence & he wrote out a fine for me to pay within 28 days of 19STG. Paid it gladly. No points as they can't transfer they over or something.
I was told they can only arrest you if you are over 90 mph, ie., 30 mph over the speed limit. Why the Court date now? Why such a high fine compared to the one I got? Yes, you need advice indeed. I'd be instructing an NI Solicitor to defend you mate.

They arrest you if you're not an NI resident and can't verify your address.

flickarius

I wonder how many northern drivers are pulled in here in the republic, for as far as I can see, 99 per cent of them are way over the speed limits here.

MugMugs

flickarius wrote: »

I wonder how many northern drivers are pulled in here in the republic, for as far as I can see, 99 per cent of them are way over the speed limits here.

And 99% of us over there...

Delancey

minsbarron wrote: »

I was told they can only arrest you if you are over 90 mph, ie., 30 mph over the speed limit. Why the Court date now? Why such a high fine compared to the one I got? Yes, you need advice indeed. I'd be instructing an NI Solicitor to defend you mate.

Quite incorrect whoever said that.

Throughout the UK there is a power of arrest under Section 25 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act whereby a person can be arrested for any offence when the service of a summons is not considered to be '' practicable '' - non-residents and people without ID are thus likely to get their collars felt.
Many southern drivers in the North have learnt about this power first hand.

M three

minsbarron wrote: »

Wow, this is very harsh. I was stopped late one night on a very dark but busy road by the PSNI. I was clocked doing 87 mph in a 60 mph zone. I asked him for ID first before I wound down my window as it was so dark I couldn't even make out his uniform. He wasn't best pleased with this. I showed him my ROI driver's licence & he wrote out a fine for me to pay within 28 days of 19STG. Paid it gladly. No points as they can't transfer they over or something.
I was told they can only arrest you if you are over 90 mph, ie., 30 mph over the speed limit. Why the Court date now? Why such a high fine compared to the one I got? Yes, you need advice indeed. I'd be instructing an NI Solicitor to defend you mate.

Appreciate all the replies to my original post.
Minisbarron, I didnt have ROI license on me, so they therefore had no way to verify my address, so I was arrested, taken to an atm to withdraw cash. Cash lodged with psni who'll bring that to court for the judge to determine what the fine is.
Not keen on hiring a solicitor as that'll just cost more and may not necessarily lead to a lower fine

M three

corktina wrote: »

advice? what do you need to know? you'll get a part refund in due course.

was wondering if anyone was in a similar situation and could give an indication of the eventual fine.
Or if there are any technical loopholes that people are aware of in this situations!

Chriscl1

80mph in a 60mph zone is taking the piss. Anyone that gets caught speeding deserves all they get, if you can't pay enough attention to spot the police then you have no business driving above your personal limitations.

M three

Chriscl1 wrote: »

80mph in a 60mph zone is taking the piss. Anyone that gets caught speeding deserves all they get, if you can't pay enough attention to spot the police then you have no business driving above your personal limitations.

Thanks for that invaluable input.
Just so you know they were in an unmarked car and the stretch of road i was on was dual carriageway, so I wasnt taking the piss.

corktina

but you are taking the piss trying to get out of it!

Mint Sauce

Chriscl1 wrote: »

80mph in a 60mph zone is taking the piss. Anyone that gets caught speeding deserves all they get, if you can't pay enough attention to spot the police then you have no business driving above your personal limitations.

TBH, I wouldn't be looking out for the police, but the speed limit signs. Then If I'm under the speed limit, I shouldn't have to worry about the police or speed traps.

Terrontress

You can't drive on the dual carriageway between Hillsborough and Newry without seeing them somewhere or other. And they drive all manner of cars, from boring unmarked Passats or Mondeos to Golf R32s and Focus STs. If they catch someone on a provisional, first, second or otherwise, they'll not let you drive onwards. On top of this the speed limit on the dual carriageway changes frequently between 60 and 70 and there are often restrictions near road works to bring it to 40.

It's just not worth the risk.

Terrontress

corktina wrote: »

but you are taking the piss trying to get out of it!

That's a bit harsh. Someone can learn their lesson perfectly well without an appearance in court and a cash fine.

M three

corktina wrote: »

but you are taking the piss trying to get out of it!

They have a couple of hundred pounds belonging to me so Id hardly say im trying to get out of it.
Thanks for the posts but is that as constructive as you're going to get?

MugMugs

M three wrote: »

They have a couple of hundred pounds belonging to me so Id hardly say im trying to get out of it.
Thanks for the posts but is that as constructive as you're going to get?

What do you want here OP.

You're banged to rights and know what your outcome will be after your day in court.

Nothing can be done here for you and there's no way out of this.

Terrontress

As an outsider, I'd say that whether he gets six weeks in jail or else gets off on a technicality, the chances of him wilfully speeding in NI again are close to zero so I don't see what good the fine is going to do other than pay for the NI Courts overheads or why people should judge him for trying to get off it.

Judge him for speeding in the first place but not for trying to get off.

Reg'stoy

Terrontress wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. Someone can learn their lesson perfectly well without an appearance in court and a cash fine.

The 'go sit on the naughty step' tends not to work in situations like this, as far as I'm concerned he was dealt with perfectly reasonably. He didn't have his licence with him nor any other form of ID, the 'cross you heart hope to die' promise to come back for a court appearance has been found not to work; so being asked to hand over £200 is just the right amount. By right amount I mean, enough that should he fail to appear; he's already been fined (both for speeding and failing to appear, no need for bench warrants) and also enough that he might actually consider attending court if there is the chance that he might only be fined a small amount and so get money back.

Terrontress wrote: »

As an outsider, I'd say that whether he gets six weeks in jail or else gets off on a technicality, the chances of him wilfully speeding in NI again are close to zero so I don't see what good the fine is going to do other than pay for the NI Courts overheads or why people should judge him for trying to get off it.

Judge him for speeding in the first place but not for trying to get off.

I reckon a large number of people who once they cross the border (in either direction) view it as akin to joining an autobahn. This number would only increase if when caught, drivers were let off with a stern talking too which it appears you think is enough.

M three

MugMugs wrote: »

What do you want here OP.

You're banged to rights and know what your outcome will be after your day in court.

Nothing can be done here for you and there's no way out of this.

Never say never mugs

Will let you know how i get on regardless...

logie101

If they catch someone on a provisional, first, second or otherwise, they'll not let you drive onwards.

Nobody on a provisional should be driving on a motorway in any part of Ireland.
Seeing provisional drivers on their own on the motorway is crazy.
The guards really need to take a tougher approach and I force the law.

Pat Mustard

corktina wrote: »

but you are taking the piss trying to get out of it!

Nonsense.

The OP posts about a problem and asks how to meet it in the best possible manner, and this is the calibre of response that comes from the Motors Forum.

He wasn't even trying to get out of the fine.

I can only suggest to people with legal problems involving their motoring, that there tend to be more reasoned, objective replies from posters on the Legal Discussion forum.

Terrontress

The key is that the PSNI take a proactive approach to policing the roads. They drive and observe and pull in those whose behaviour seems odd or whose speed is too high.

An Garda Siochana sit and wait for trouble to come to them. Checkpoints. You can drive like a lunatic for 100km and then drive through the checkpoint normally and you will be fine.

People will flash other road users to warn of upcoming checkpoints so people slow down, drunk drivers and the uninsured turn round. I knew a guy in work whose car was untaxed as he came toward a checkpoint by the Burlington. He parked the car and walked off. No detection.

Terrontress

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. Someone can learn their lesson perfectly well without an appearance in court and a cash fine.

The 'go sit on the naughty step' tends not to work in situations like this, as far as I'm concerned he was dealt with perfectly reasonably. He didn't have his licence with him nor any other form of ID, the 'cross you heart hope to die' promise to come back for a court appearance has been found not to work; so being asked to hand over £200 is just the right amount. By right amount I mean, enough that should he fail to appear; he's already been fined (both for speeding and failing to appear, no need for bench warrants) and also enough that he might actually consider attending court if there is the chance that he might only be fined a small amount and so get money back.

Terrontress wrote: »

As an outsider, I'd say that whether he gets six weeks in jail or else gets off on a technicality, the chances of him wilfully speeding in NI again are close to zero so I don't see what good the fine is going to do other than pay for the NI Courts overheads or why people should judge him for trying to get off it.

Judge him for speeding in the first place but not for trying to get off.

I reckon a large number of people who once they cross the border (in either direction) view it as akin to joining an autobahn. This number would only increase if when caught, drivers were let off with a stern talking too which it appears you think is enough.

He didn't just get a stern talking to at the roadside. He was arrested, charged and bailed.

Presumably he was fingerprinted, read his rights, made statement etc. Who knows what else.

I'd imagine he has learnt his lesson and stinging him for £200 won't make him any more sorry. I'll guarantee you he won't do it again in a hurry!

MugMugs

The Mustard wrote: »

Nonsense.
He wasn't even trying to get out of the fine.

M three wrote: »

Or if there are any technical loopholes that people are aware of in this situations!

:rolleyes:

Pat Mustard

@MugMugs.

Acknowledge your point re loopholes.

You've ignored the wider issue. The man looked for assistance, but all he got were aggressive remarks.

Good luck OP.

650Ginge

M three wrote: »

Chriscl1 wrote: »

80mph in a 60mph zone is taking the piss. Anyone that gets caught speeding deserves all they get, if you can't pay enough attention to spot the police then you have no business driving above your personal limitations.

Thanks for that invaluable input.
Just so you know they were in an unmarked car and the stretch of road i was on was dual carriageway, so I wasnt taking the piss.

Of course you where taking the piss at 80 mph in a 60.

M three

MugMugs wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Mugs, asking if there are any technicalities that anyone is aware of is not looking to get away without paying a fine.

Just for your benefit I'll say this again, they already have 200 pounds sterling from me.

M three

650Ginge wrote: »

Of course you where taking the piss at 80 mph in a 60.

Well done, you are obviously perfect and never ever make any mistakes.

Reg'stoy

Terrontress wrote: »

He didn't just get a stern talking to at the roadside. He was arrested, charged and bailed.

Presumably he was fingerprinted, read his rights, made statement etc. Who knows what else.

I'd imagine he has learnt his lesson and stinging him for £200 won't make him any more sorry. I'll guarantee you he won't do it again in a hurry!

As was explained the reason (probably) for his arrest was to clarify who he was. We're not talking here about rendition, had he brought his licence with him (human error on his part) one would imagine that he would have been dealt with there and then.

I don't understand why you say 'stinging' him, I would be delighted if the power existed here to request on the spot payment from out of state drivers.

The OP asked had asked advice, he has two choices, turn up to his court date or not, simple.

I'm sure the PSNI will be delighted to see you think that a £200 on the spot fine will deter southern drivers from speeding.

M three

Reg'stoy wrote: »

I would be delighted

I'm sure the PSNI will be delighted .

You think a lot like the PSNI dont you

kingshankly

Can't see how you can get points on your license don't think that's possible

M three

kingshankly wrote: »

Can't see how you can get points on your license don't think that's possible

No system in place for putting points on an ROI license for an offence in the North

MugMugs

M three wrote: »

Mugs, asking if there are any technicalities that anyone is aware of is not looking to get away without paying a fine.

Just for your benefit I'll say this again, they already have 200 pounds sterling from me.

I don't need to be reminded of that fact.

Why would you want a "technical loophole" if you weren't looking to get away with the whole thing?

It's one of these three reasons in my opinion.

You wanted:

1. The judge to wear a silly red wig and red nose
2. The Police man to do a little dance to Popcorn in the box
3. You wanted to get away with it and get your money back

Pat Mustard

M three, I know little about UK law or the system that applies in NI.

I don't know if my idea is feasible, but there is little to lose in asking. To minimise the fallout on this, I wonder if you could explore the following possibility.

Maybe you could contact the policeman who stopped you and send proof of your address to his satisfaction. In those circumstances, you could ask him to check if he would agree to send you a ticket in respect of the speeding offence.

If you were sent a speeding ticket, and if you paid it, I imagine that the charges before the court could be struck out without much difficulty. Perhaps you could ask the police to consent to this.

Again, this is a shot in the dark, but if it could be done, perhaps it would save you taking a day off work for a trip to court in NI.

My guess is that the PSNI will not agree to send you a ticket when you've already been charged, but you could ask them anyway. Perhaps they can assist otherwise though. Maybe you could ask them if there is anything else that can be done to avoid a court appearance.

You could also take advice from an NI solicitor, and see if this matter can be dealt with, without you having to go back to NI to attend court.

M three

The Mustard wrote: »

M three, I know little about UK law or the system that applies in NI.

I don't know if my idea is feasible, but there is little to lose in asking. To minimise the fallout on this, I wonder if you could explore the following possibility.

Maybe you could contact the policeman who stopped you and send proof of your address to his satisfaction. In those circumstances, you could ask him to check if he would agree to send you a ticket in respect of the speeding offence.

If you were sent a speeding ticket, and if you paid it, I imagine that the charges before the court could be struck out without much difficulty. Perhaps you could ask the police to consent to this.

Again, this is a shot in the dark, but if it could be done, perhaps it would save you taking a day off work for a trip to court in NI.

My guess is that the PSNI will not agree to send you a ticket when you've already been charged, but you could ask them anyway. Perhaps they can assist otherwise though. Maybe you could ask them if there is anything else that can be done to avoid a court appearance.

You could also take advice from an NI solicitor, and see if this matter can be dealt with, without you having to go back to NI to attend court.

Thanks Mustard, will suss that out early this week and let you know how it goes

GTE

M three wrote: »

Thanks for that invaluable input.
Just so you know they were in an unmarked car and the stretch of road i was on was dual carriageway, so I wasnt taking the piss.

Was this the A1 by any chance?