Garda Bicycles - questions

Crow92

Does anyone have any statistics on gardai on bicycles?
The relative cost of kitting out a bike?
How many there are and the distribution.
Maybe even crime statistics on the performance of bicycle gardai?

Pappa Charlie

Quoting Zombie Thread - read dates

Rew

Amaze's me this tread has gone on for 6 pages, id tell some people to get a hobby but they already have one... We need more Gardai on bikes and less legislation curtailing anyone on a bike not more to curtail Gardai.

happytramp

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

OP, they are well trained and would only use the footpath if it was necessary, rest easy, maybe next time you might be the one calling them and you might not be too concerned while your waiting if they use the footpath!

This is not true. Last week one went by me doing a wheelie on the footpath. He also gave me the finger for no reason.

Jawgap

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

OP, they are well trained and would only use the footpath if it was necessary, rest easy, maybe next time you might be the one calling them and you might not be too concerned while your waiting if they use the footpath!

Gardai on bikes - excellent idea and there should be more of them, but if you think they only use the footpath when necessary, you are sadly mistaken!

They use it when necessary, when it suits and when they need to take the quickest route to Supervalue, Spar or Centra- but I've no problem with that - better to have them out and about than tucked away in vans and cars.

In Drogheda, I've started to notice the Garda bicycle out and about a lot more often as of late. Garda cyclist I was talking to claims it's always been out and about, but I'm dubious (though of course, just because I personally don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there).


It played a big enough part in this year's Garda Open Day at the Drogheda station. They had two bikes set up, and a Garda was on one of them in the cycling uniform (which is much better looking, and better suited to police work, than the standard uniform, in my opinion) and he was doing little demonstrations with cones and such, and discussing the training they go through before they're allowed to use the bike, how they're trained to use it as a weapon, etc.

It was all fairly good, I thought. There's a lot more involved in it that I'd have thought (I've seen videos of them going down steps and such, but I assumed that'd be about the height of their training, but it seems fairly more in-depth).


Quick photo;





More here, for anyone interested (Open Day in general, but the bike makes a few appearances):

http://shanemaguire.ie/?page_id=1174

buffalo

Deleted User wrote: »

discussing the training they go through before they're allowed to use the bike, how they're trained to use it as a weapon, etc.

Tell me more!

Weirdview

keano007 wrote: »

The Garda bikes are BH and Giant bikes. The BH aren't the best but I'm a big fan of the Giant. As for the Groupset, there basic enough, both bikes use Shimano Deore. Good bikes all round and obviously well maintained as we can drop them into our local bike shop anytime we see fit

As for the question on the panniers and whats in them??...........well thats a secret!! lol

I would argue that BH are superior to Giant (at least they're made in the EU!) I am biased because I have a BH but I'd take a G5 or Ultralight anyday over anything Giant has to offer.

Sorry for the off topic!

Tenzor07

Jawgap wrote: »

They use it when necessary, when it suits and when they need to take the quickest route to Supervalue, Spar or Centra

Not making fun of them or anything, but that's very true based on what I have seen!
Only time I see them is cycling down the path past the Tesco Clare Hall to get to the Spar @ Northern Cross...

check_six

You know the way you are not supposed to put a set of blue lights on your family saloon car and cover it in Garda stickers?

I wonder if the same holds true for rigging your bike out like a Garda one...

Ok, you might have to do a bit of explaining every now and then, but on the plus side your bike isn't likely to get stolen, and if it does, it'd be spotted pretty quick.

Do I sense a Boards project coming on?

Also, back on topic of a two year old thread, the benefit of being on bike is that you can go anywhere fast, yes? Ignoring all those laws about not cycling on the footpath, would you get off your bike at all? I'd be cycling around shops after a couple of days. Walking sucks!

hardCopy

Deleted User wrote: »

In Drogheda, I've started to notice the Garda bicycle out and about a lot more often as of late. Garda cyclist I was talking to claims it's always been out and about, but I'm dubious (though of course, just because I personally don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there).


It played a big enough part in this year's Garda Open Day at the Drogheda station. They had two bikes set up, and a Garda was on one of them in the cycling uniform (which is much better looking, and better suited to police work, than the standard uniform, in my opinion) and he was doing little demonstrations with cones and such, and discussing the training they go through before they're allowed to use the bike, how they're trained to use it as a weapon, etc.

It was all fairly good, I thought. There's a lot more involved in it that I'd have thought (I've seen videos of them going down steps and such, but I assumed that'd be about the height of their training, but it seems fairly more in-depth).


Quick photo;





More here, for anyone interested (Open Day in general, but the bike makes a few appearances):

http://shanemaguire.ie/?page_id=1174

One week's training course on the bike vs three hours in a classroom to drive the car :rolleyes:

Rew

hardCopy wrote: »

One week's training course on the bike vs three hours in a classroom to drive the car :rolleyes:

Since when? car course is a week followed by a conversion course to the van

Darkglasses

I saw the Garda cyclists doing an exhibition in TCD once also, they had great skills. But I would really like to see them set a better example by staying on the road etc.

DirkVoodoo

Darkglasses wrote: »

I saw the Garda cyclists doing an exhibition in TCD once also, they had great skills. But I would really like to see them set a better example by staying on the road etc.

Nearly got taken out by one the other day when he switched lanes without so much as a backwards glance over his shoulder.

Jawgap

re the photo above - I'm surprised they use toe-clips, I thought that would slow you down getting of the thing to pursue on foot.

Anyway, de google machine spewed this out in relation to training.....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/garda-awarded-19k-over-bicycle-training-accident-147837.html

sounds like a fairly unpleasant experience!

Spokes of Glory

I presume legendary (and sadly extinct) no-budget TV series Pacific Blue is compulsory training. Dealing with jaywalkers in sunny California can't be any more dangerous than chasing crack-heads in Dublin surely ??

http://crazyabouttv.com/pacificblue.html

Spokes

DirkVoodoo

Jawgap wrote: »

re the photo above - I'm surprised they use toe-clips, I thought that would slow you down getting of the thing to pursue on foot.

Anyway, de google machine spewed this out in relation to training.....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/garda-awarded-19k-over-bicycle-training-accident-147837.html

sounds like a fairly unpleasant experience!

Great to see such different accounts being given under oath by the Gardai.

Rew

Rew wrote: »

Since when? car course is a week followed by a conversion course to the van

the standard driving course is three weeks long. including a week of instruction of driving with lights and sirens and van driving.

hardCopy

Rew wrote: »

hardCopy wrote: »

One week's training course on the bike vs three hours in a classroom to drive the car :rolleyes:

Since when? car course is a week followed by a conversion course to the van

But most drivers don't do the full course, they drive on Chief's Permission

Rew

hardCopy wrote: »

But most drivers don't do the full course, they drive on Chief's Permission

Have you the stats to backup the "most" there? It's not a driving course its a written permission so you comment about 3 hours in a classroom and comparing it to the bike course is completely misleading and incorrect.

Rew

bubblypop wrote: »

the standard driving course is three weeks long. including a week of instruction of driving with lights and sirens and van driving.

My mistake

hardCopy

Rew wrote: »

Have you the stats to backup the "most" there? It's not a driving course its a written permission so you comment about 3 hours in a classroom and comparing it to the bike course is completely misleading and incorrect.

No stats, just based on a few of my mates who are members.

Rew

hardCopy wrote: »

No stats, just based on a few of my mates who are members.

You do have to drive a car under supervision to get chiefs and you cant drive a van. As far as im aware all the traffic corps guys must have the car course done. There are stats available as it came up the Dail a while back.

J Madone

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Jawgap wrote: »

re the photo above - I'm surprised they use toe-clips, I thought that would slow you down getting of the thing to pursue on foot.

Anyway, de google machine spewed this out in relation to training.....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/garda-awarded-19k-over-bicycle-training-accident-147837.html

sounds like a fairly unpleasant experience!

Great to see such different accounts being given under oath by the Gardai.

4 months off for a broken collarbone, god bless the civil service.
Lucky Cancellara isn't a cop

Jawgap

J Madone wrote: »

4 months off for a broken collarbone, god bless the civil service.
Lucky Cancellara isn't a cop

guards aren't civil service

you don't know what other injuries he sustained

and if you think the civil / public service or the guards are such cushy numbers, why don't you join?;)

seamus

J Madone wrote: »

4 months off for a broken collarbone, god bless the civil service.
Lucky Cancellara isn't a cop

Minimum 6 weeks healing + 6 weeks physio/rehabilitation. That's 3 months. Considering he claims to have had a bike for 30 years without incident, I'm going to assume the Garda was at least in his late 30's, but probably in his 40's, so we'll give him an extra week on each count, which brings us up to 3.5 months.
Considering that being a Garda is a physically demanding job requiring a certain level of fitness, taking another two weeks to be safe - particularly for a collarbone injury - I don't think is taking the piss.

Maybe he could have done desk work, but we don't know what his role was before the incident, he may not have been appropriate for desk work in the station.

They had two bikes set up, and a Garda was on one of them in the cycling uniform (which is much better looking, and better suited to police work, than the standard uniform, in my opinion)

Reminds me a lot of the uniforms you see them wearing on those Brit Road Cop programmes. Far more suitable for everyday police work then the typical plod's uniform.

Pappa Charlie

hardCopy wrote: »

One week's training course on the bike vs three hours in a classroom to drive the car :rolleyes:

"a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing"

Jawgap

seamus wrote: »

Minimum 6 weeks healing + 6 weeks physio/rehabilitation. That's 3 months. Considering he claims to have had a bike for 30 years without incident, I'm going to assume the Garda was at least in his late 30's, but probably in his 40's, so we'll give him an extra week on each count, which brings us up to 3.5 months.
Considering that being a Garda is a physically demanding job requiring a certain level of fitness, taking another two weeks to be safe - particularly for a collarbone injury - I don't think is taking the piss.

Maybe he could have done desk work, but we don't know what his role was before the incident, he may not have been appropriate for desk work in the station.

Reminds me a lot of the uniforms you see them wearing on those Brit Road Cop programmes. Far more suitable for everyday police work then the typical plod's uniform.

I'm quite willing to slag off Guards, especially those related to me:D - but it is thankless job a lot of the time.

I think putting someone on desk work might be problematic - in our place it's a big day if someone lets the coffee machine run out, in garda stations you never know what can happen, between someone in the cells or on the way to the cells going mental to people trying to set fire to themselves in the public area! So you probably only want fully fit individuals working.

I know from my own family's experience (one concussion with facial lacerations, and another dislocated elbow) the reluctance to see them back on duty was not with them, but with the Garda management, who effectively and understandably wanted proper assurances they were up to the physical demands of the job.

The uniform looks very impractical, although I'm told it's not - the Brits one looks more suited to policing but it sometimes looks a bit 'military.'

To wander back towards the original theme of the thread, I always wonder why they use front sus MTBs - I would have thought a robust hybrid would be quicker and possibly more practical.

unichall

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm quite willing to slag off Guards, especially those related to me:D - but it is thankless job a lot of the time.

I think putting someone on desk work might be problematic - in our place it's a big day if someone lets the coffee machine run out, in garda stations you never know what can happen, between someone in the cells or on the way to the cells going mental to people trying to set fire to themselves in the public area! So you probably only want fully fit individuals working.

I know from my own family's experience (one concussion with facial lacerations, and another dislocated elbow) the reluctance to see them back on duty was not with them, but with the Garda management, who effectively and understandably wanted proper assurances they were up to the physical demands of the job.

The uniform looks very impractical, although I'm told it's not - the Brits one looks more suited to policing but it sometimes looks a bit 'military.'

To wander back towards the original theme of the thread, I always wonder why they use front sus MTBs - I would have thought a robust hybrid would be quicker and possibly more practical.

Correct, you cant go back to work after an injury like that until the Garda medical give you the ok and they want to be sure that you are fully fit and its not always possible to rerurn to a desk job, some station dont have any specific desk jobs and district and divisional hq's while they do have them are usually staffed by civilians or guards who have been doing that job for years so to plonk a guard who has no clue what he is doing in that role for a number of weeks isnt possible

As for the suspension it really is needed, its fully adjustable so quite pracitcal but in towns and cities there is a lot of going down steps and kerb hopping etc. The bikes are incredibly 'abused' in the day to day nature of the job, it is a tool at the end of the day and not treated as we would treat our own road bikes or mountain bikes, plus they are used constantly for on average 16+hours a day 7 days a week. Most stations have a more bikers than bikes so they are constantly swapped over and constantly rotated to working units

Rew

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm quite willing to slag off Guards, especially those related to me:D - but it is thankless job a lot of the time.

I think putting someone on desk work might be problematic - in our place it's a big day if someone lets the coffee machine run out, in garda stations you never know what can happen, between someone in the cells or on the way to the cells going mental to people trying to set fire to themselves in the public area! So you probably only want fully fit individuals working.

I know from my own family's experience (one concussion with facial lacerations, and another dislocated elbow) the reluctance to see them back on duty was not with them, but with the Garda management, who effectively and understandably wanted proper assurances they were up to the physical demands of the job.

The uniform looks very impractical, although I'm told it's not - the Brits one looks more suited to policing but it sometimes looks a bit 'military.'

Id +1 all that.

To wander back towards the original theme of the thread, I always wonder why they use front sus MTBs - I would have thought a robust hybrid would be quicker and possibly more practical.

I've always thought they were more robust hybrid then proper MTB anyway.

Jawgap

unichall wrote: »

.......
As for the suspension it really is needed, its fully adjustable so quite pracitcal but in towns and cities there is a lot of going down steps and kerb hopping etc.......

Yeah, well if you stayed off the paths you wouldn't need it then

unichall

Jawgap wrote: »

Yeah, well if you stayed off the paths you wouldn't need it then

I'll remember that the next time you ring looking for us and i take the long way round:D

J Madone

Jawgap wrote: »

J Madone wrote: »

4 months off for a broken collarbone, god bless the civil service.
Lucky Cancellara isn't a cop

guards aren't civil service

you don't know what other injuries he sustained

and if you think the civil / public service or the guards are such cushy numbers, why don't you join?;)

Because I can pronounce vehicle

seamus

Jawgap wrote: »

To wander back towards the original theme of the thread, I always wonder why they use front sus MTBs - I would have thought a robust hybrid would be quicker and possibly more practical.

Did you never see Pacific Blue? It's for leaping down flights of steps in slow-motion and bunnyhopping over cars and such.

Jawgap

J Madone wrote: »

Because I can pronounce vehicle

such a wit.........you should have joined you'd be Commissioner by now

Rew

J Madone wrote: »

Because I can pronounce vehicle

Look up how to vehicle as gaeilge

Jawgap

seamus wrote: »

Did you never see Pacific Blue? It's for leaping down flights of steps in slow-motion and bunnyhopping over cars and such.

missed that.......but seen as it's about "Sexy cops on bicycles patrol Santa Monica's beach district" and stars 'Slider' from Top Gun, I feel like I've missed out - can I borrow your box set?

CramCycle

Crow92 wrote: »

Does anyone have any statistics on gardai on bicycles?
The relative cost of kitting out a bike?

I remember meeting the mechanic who was assembling the first batch in Dun Laoghaire, he said it was a lot of money for very little bike, about 2.5grand after he had checked it over (he had seen the invoice plus his cost for giving it a once over), presume it has come down since then though. That said the cost of decals etc woulkd probably drive the price up a bit.

[QUOTE=Deleted User;79551522how they're trained to use it as a weapon, etc.
[/QUOTE]

Anything like the Met training? Seen that and it looked great, dismounting a bicycle mid slide into a run or skidding up behind someone and grabbing them in a head/arm lock, looked awesome.

Rew wrote: »

You do have to drive a car under supervision to get chiefs and you cant drive a van. As far as im aware all the traffic corps guys must have the car course done. There are stats available as it came up the Dail a while back.

Every Garda I have talked to (admittedly only 4) has just gotten permission on the basis they have a license from their Super, no classroom, no training etc.

Pappa Charlie

J Madone wrote: »

Because I can pronounce vehicle

Good man! take the rest of the day off!

Rew

CramCycle wrote: »

Every Garda I have talked to (admittedly only 4) has just gotten permission on the basis they have a license from their Super, no classroom, no training etc.

For a start is a chief supers permission letter not a super and its up to them how they decide to give it out. Certainly anyone I know that has it had to go out with a traffic corp sgt and get their recommendation that they get their chiefs.

unichall

Rew wrote: »

For a start is a chief supers permission letter not a super and its up to them how they decide to give it out. Certainly anyone I know that has it had to go out with a traffic corp sgt and get their recommendation that they get their chiefs.

In an ideal world but not always, more often that not, the case.

Its no big deal its a bridging gap before lads go on the official course. If a driver is available who is trained he always drives but if beacuse of annual leave/ illness there were not trained drivers available it still allows for a car to be put out as opposed to no car.

The delay in getting lads trained is the length of the course and number of places available on each one. |Each course is 3 weeks and can only accomodate 20 odd drivers I think, they are increasing the number of instructors available to increase this but the insrtuctor course is extremely hard and the fail rate is very high. But in the last year or two this has been improving instructor wise so over the next year or so you will see a much higher rate of qualified drivers on the road, its already begun in fact

CramCycle

Rew wrote: »

For a start is a chief supers permission letter not a super and its up to them how they decide to give it out. Certainly anyone I know that has it had to go out with a traffic corp sgt and get their recommendation that they get their chiefs.

Like I said, only 4 garda that I know where it has even come up, every other one possibly done the full course, its not something that comes up in conversation normally, I had only asked as we were just talking about work and I was enquiring what they were doing at the time over a cuppa tea. I got the impression that they weren't out every day in the car, just if it was needed that they could.

Keep_Her_Lit

Deleted User wrote: »

how they're trained to use it as a weapon, etc.

CramCycle wrote: »

Anything like the Met training? Seen that and it looked great, dismounting a bicycle mid slide into a run or skidding up behind someone and grabbing them in a head/arm lock, looked awesome.

And if you want to stop a couple of getaway thieves on a moped, this is probably easier than trying to give chase on your bicycle ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4nQe7IlsU

hardCopy

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

And if you want to stop a couple of getaway thieves on a moped, this is probably easier than trying to give chase on your bicycle ...

I think I could watch that for days!

check_six

check_six wrote: »

You know the way you are not supposed to put a set of blue lights on your family saloon car and cover it in Garda stickers?

I wonder if the same holds true for rigging your bike out like a Garda one...

Law states it's illegal to impersonate a Garda. I'd assume that by having anything on your person or vehicle with the word Garda or Garda Siochana crest, you'd be guilty of that offence, so you couldn't do it.


Could probably do it with Police instead of Garda, though. You'd be trekking a grey area, but technically, it'd be legal (as far as I know).

Though having Garda/Police on your bike would probably invite trouble, rather than push it away.

buffalo wrote: »

Tell me more!

Ah he was covering fairly basic stuff with us, saying that as part of the training, they have to stay inside a small square marked area (think half the width of your average parking space) and they had to get the front wheel from one line to the next, but take 30 seconds doing it (therefore moving incredibly slowly, essentially staying still, but never putting your feet on the ground etc.). Apparently it's part of being able to cycle within a large crowd of people (moving slowly, so you don't knock people down).


Other stuff was that they're trained is, when a member of the public stops or confronts them, they always dismount the bike on the far side (so the bike remains between the person and Garda). This makes it easy to grab the person by the collar and pull them towards you (they'll hit the bike and get caught on it and hit the ground) or, if the person is close enough, they can use a lot of force to violently push the bike into the person (resulting in the crossbar/handlebars hitting the thighs, and the person being grounded again.

He did little demonstrations of both and they seemed fairly effective (he didn't actually wrestle me to the ground or anything, but he was showing me how these moves would be performed, and they seemed perfectly capable of taking someone down).


If the person produces a knife, for example, they can quickly bring the bike to a standing position (so it's on it's back wheel) and, with careful usage of the back brakes, use the bike as a shield, or the front wheel/tyre as a weapon by projecting forward and ramming it into your face (presuming the person is close enough).


He said and showed some other stuff, too, but that's the gist of it. He was a fairly sound guy, and seemed to be interested in the bicycle area of the job (whether he actually is or not, I don't know, but on the open day he seemed enthusiastic, anyway).


I should probably point out that, whilst I'm sure that An Garda Siochána are probably somewhat secretive about their operations (not having every scumbag knowing their training inside out is obviously beneficial), all of this stuff was told/shown to me during the course of an Open Day, and not in confidence or such, so I think it's okay to share it with people. However, if any mods feel it breaches any forum rules or is at all sketchy with regards to An Garda Siochana operations, feel free to edit/remove as you see fit.

Raymzor

dont think id fancy going down steps without disk brakes!

ThisRegard

Saw something outside the Phoenix Park this evening that instantly reminded me of this thread. Two gardai on bikes, cycling on the footpad, and one drinking from a cup while doing so so only steering with one hand, shocking.

endacl

Would it be cheeky to point out when their tyres could do with a blasht of air, or when the saddles are too low...?