Reclaiming a full deposit.

Stompbox

In a bit of a pickle; myself and my four housemates moved out of our rented college accommodation there a few weeks ago and we're looking to reclaim our €2500 deposit. We gave the house a pretty thorough cleaning before we left so as not to jeopardise the return of the deposit but after liaising with the landlord, his agent has informed us that they will refund the money after deducting €50 from each of us in order to pay for cleaning.

I told him that €250 is an absurd amount of money for cleaning considering the condition that we left the house in and that we're very reluctant to pay it. I asked him to provide me with a breakdown of the cleaning costs so that I could expose how inappropriate the expense is and he told me that there were 'cobwebs in two of the rooms and contents left over in the bathroom'. So €250 to dust around the windowframes of two bedrooms and to remove a few toiletries that went overlooked in the cleaning process?! Madness. I then told him that if were looking at losing €250, I would travel back up to Dublin myself to iron the last few cleaning creases, an idea which he pretty much dismissed as folly. The conversation went into a kind of stalemate there so I told him I would consult with my other housemates and call him again later in the day.

The full return of deposits seems like a bit of a gray area that's completely at the landlord's discretion and to me, it looks like he's just trying to make a quick buck. What approach should I take to make sure I get all our money back? Thanks in advance.

PS. I should add that when we first began renting the house two years ago, we had been assured that the place had been cleaned from head-to-toe prior to our entry. When we got there we realised that this had been a lie and the cleaning that he had promised only occurred after we came to loggerheads with the landlord.

edellc

Your are entitled to be able to rectify what the agents has said about cobwebs and the like...seriously he is taking the piss

as for retaining any of your deposit, he has to provide you with all receipts for any work done to the house that is coming out of your deposit after all your paying for it

give threshold a quick ring they can ring the agent and remind them of this right just so they are clear, if however they do keep your deposit and dont show receipts then you can ring the PRTB and report them for retention of your deposit without consent and proof of expenses

http://www.threshold.ie/

https://www.prtb.ie/

and yes LL do tend to keep bits of deposits for no good reason some times, even when you have scrubbed the place for top to bottom and most also tend to say they are going to paint/clean place before you move in but never do, so what do they keep the deposits for grrrrrrrrrrrr

the sooner we have an independent authority that retains the deposit the better, greedy landlords and greedy agents need a good slap

StillWaters

There was a similar thread on this last week. You are not entitled to rectify it yourself.
And the upshot from the last thread was €200 was the going rate for an apartment clean.

Funnyonion79

Hey, just wanted to add - this happened to a friend of mine in the UK.

The house they rented wasn't cleaned properly when they moved in so they had to clean it themselves and then when they moved out, they scrubbed it from top to bottom and my friend spent literally hours cleaning the oven and all the pots and pans.

When they rang to arrange to collect their deposit, the agent gave them a simliar spiel to yourself - house hadn't been cleaned properly and there had been some dirt left in a pot and the oven wasn't cleaned properly. Well my friend went mental on the phone and demanded his deposit back, which the agent refused. So he ended up calling into the letting agent and informed them that he wasn't leaving until he had received his deposit and if they wanted to show him the "dirty oven" and the "dirty pot" etc, he'd go up to the house to see it and sort out the situation but he wasn't leaving without his deposit.

They handed it over without another word.

A bit extreme, I know but this seems to be common practise so I think you need to be firm with them and let them know you're not going away. See what threshold say anyway....good idea if they can ring the letting agent.

edellc

U are entitled to rectify it and they have to provide receipts if the are keeping any of your deposit...there is no going rate maybe as per boards.ie but that's all ask threshold

Ray Palmer

Letting agents tend to do this more so than LL. They basically do it out of convenience. Unless you must use an agent as a LL don't they give everyone poor service.
A LL will clean again but they know they can't charge. An agent doesn't plan to clean it himself and tries to pass on the charge to the tenant when they hire somebody.
It is a scam

Stompbox

So we're not even obliged to pay for the cleaning service? It's the landlord who has to cough up?

edellc

No the ll coughes up nothing its taken from your deposit and the ll or agent choose they cleaners, the have to provide u with receipts for work done that you are paying for .... If u disagree get threshold involved or even the prtb who can take a case against them for retaining your deposit

StillWaters

edellc wrote: »

U are entitled to rectify it and they have to provide receipts if the are keeping any of your deposit...there is no going rate maybe as per boards.ie but that's all ask threshold

Can you please link as to the legislation where you are entitled to rectify it?

This seems to be a myth that has grown legs.

edellc

U show me the that says you cant, since your the one that thinks he knows everything

As I have ring threshold or prtb they will help the op out

StillWaters

How could I prove the absence of legislation Edel, only by the inability to find such legislation? If you can find it, it will clear it up for once and for all. I can't find it.

What makes you think I think I know it all?

Wishpiddle

I am currently in the same situation as the thread starter, we are being docked €500 from €1400 between 4 people in Phibsborough.

Before I go on, I would like to state that MOLLOY ESTATE AGENCY was the agency we dealt with have to say DO NOT RENT FROM THEM!!!!
They have no customer appreciation or respect and are unhelpful and useless when it comes to solving any problems due to renting a house.

So €500 is for the repainting of the houses interior stating the disrepair of the old coat which we have evidence of and that there are other damages that are fabrications beyond ridiculous.

Its an uphill battle and we are talking to the LL but we are prepared to contact Threshold and PTRB if nothing happens.

Landlords in Dublin are a disgrace.

edellc

Seriously Stillwaters, if the LL says that the place has a few cobwebs and a few bits in the bathroom that need to be dumpled and wants to get someone in to clean it, you can say hold on a sec I will come back and have another clean.....Only ever have I had to do this once with a LL...also cobwebs and throwing out a few bits in the bathroom hardly constitute 50each from the tenants

as I said numerous times it states on the threshold what a landlord can retain a deposit for

these are

Rent Arrears

If at the end of your tenancy, there is rent outstanding, your landlord may legitimately retain part or all of your deposit to cover the arrears.

Damage to the property above normal wear and tear

Deductions may be made or the deposit retained in full if there has been damage above normal wear and tear to the property. If your landlord claims that there has been damage to the property receipts must be provided to prove the cost incurred in carrying out repairs.

Utility Bills

If you owe money for utility bills, such as gas or electricity, and the utility bill is in the landlord's name, they may withhold part or all of the deposit to cover these costs.


COBWEBS and throwing out a FEW BITS in the bathroom are not above the general wear and tear nor do they constitute 50euro retention totalling 250euro from said tenants

Newaglish

edellc you still haven't answered the question - you stated that the tenant is entitled to carry out any cleaning works themselves. Can you prove this?

edellc

RING THRESHOLD AND THEY WILL CONFIRM IT, IT IS NOT WRITTEN IN LAW AS THE LAWS THAT GOVERN RENTALS IN IRELAND IS INADEQUATE

StillWaters

edellc wrote: »

RING THRESHOLD AND THEY WILL CONFIRM IT, IT IS NOT WRITTEN IN LAW AS THE LAWS THAT GOVERN RENTALS IN IRELAND IS INADEQUATE

If it is not written in law, it is not law.

If it is not a law it is not an entitlement. Thank you for clearing it up.

Markcheese

In this age when every phone has a camera.... Why don't people record the condition of everything when they arrive and film it all when about to leave ....would end a lot of disputes .... Small claims might be a bit swamped....

edellc

StillWaters wrote: »

There was a similar thread on this last week. You are not entitled to rectify it yourself.
And the upshot from the last thread was €200 was the going rate for an apartment clean.

StillWaters wrote: »

Can you please link as to the legislation where you are entitled to rectify it?

This seems to be a myth that has grown legs.

You really do seem to have a major problem Stillwaters :rolleyes:

So if a landlord says em the place needs a bit of a clean and you say not a problem will do that asap for you....you seem to then think that instead of said conversation that "professional cleaners" :rolleyes: get brought in straight away to clean the place at the going rate of 250euro which you have determined is the going rate as per agreed by boards.ie

there is no legistation to say a landlord has to accept your offer to reclean likewise there is no legisation to say they dont....its called having a grown up conversation...maybe you dont get that

most landlords (take it your one) and agents (you could be that too from the sound of you) behave in an unacceptable manner in relation to deposits, a landlord never has a right to keep any part of the deposit for anything without proving what they are spending it on with receipts and they can only retain the deposit for, rent not paid, wear and tear above the nom - open to debate, and unpaid bills....cleaning COBWEBS and chucking stuff that was left in the bathroom does not amount to the 250euro (you think is acceptable to retain)

think you need to calm down a bit stillwaters read you posts and get hold of reality anyone who thinks 250euro for cleaning is acceptable (im only talking about cobwebs and maybe a few bottles of shampoo as per the OP post) , and who would refuse the tenants offer to have another clean of the place for you is seriously not living in the real world and i am sure if the first post was put to threshold (again like I have said too many times now but none of you seem to get it) they would and will back me up.

If the LL wont give the 250 back or refuses to provide receipts then get the prtb involved

StillWaters

edellc wrote: »

You really do seem to have a major problem Stillwaters :rolleyes:

So if a landlord says em the place needs a bit of a clean and you say not a problem will do that asap for you....you seem to then think that instead of said conversation that "professional cleaners" :rolleyes: get brought in straight away to clean the place at the going rate of 250euro which you have determined is the going rate as per agreed by boards.ie

there is no legistation to say a landlord has to accept your offer to reclean likewise there is no legisation to say they dont....its called having a grown up conversation...maybe you dont get that

most landlords (take it your one) and agents (you could be that too from the sound of you) behave in an unacceptable manner in relation to deposits, a landlord never has a right to keep any part of the deposit for anything without proving what they are spending it on with receipts and they can only retain the deposit for, rent not paid, wear and tear above the nom - open to debate, and unpaid bills....cleaning COBWEBS and chucking stuff that was left in the bathroom does not amount to the 250euro (you think is acceptable to retain)

think you need to calm down a bit stillwaters read you posts and get hold of reality anyone who thinks 250euro for cleaning is acceptable (im only talking about cobwebs and maybe a few bottles of shampoo as per the OP post) , and who would refuse the tenants offer to have another clean of the place for you is seriously not living in the real world and i am sure if the first post was put to threshold (again like I have said too many times now but none of you seem to get it) they would and will back me up.

If the LL wont give the 250 back or refuses to provide receipts then get the prtb involved

I do not wish to engage in an argument laced with personal attacks. I would however ask you to reread my posts.

I never claimed the going rate was €250, in fact in the pervious thread i suggested a much lower figure, I never said it was acceptable to retain the deposit in this case.

You have clearly taken exception to being asked to back up your false statement that ex tenants have an entitlement to personally make good any losses/claimed losses to the LL. I think it is important that truthful information is furnished to tenants, don't you?

In this case the OP had made an offer to make good the claimed damages, and had been rebuffed. It was bad advice to pursue this avenue as he had no legal basis for so doing.

I find your claim that most landlords behave in an unacceptable manner regarding deposits hyperbolic. But again, perhaps you can back that up with statistics that i can't find.

Victor

edellc wrote: »

its called having a grown up conversation...maybe you dont get that

Behave.

odds_on

edellc wrote: »

You really do seem to have a major problem Stillwaters :rolleyes:

So if a landlord says em the place needs a bit of a clean and you say not a problem will do that asap for you....you seem to then think that instead of said conversation that "professional cleaners" :rolleyes: get brought in straight away to clean the place at the going rate of 250euro which you have determined is the going rate as per agreed by boards.ie

there is no legistation to say a landlord has to accept your offer to reclean likewise there is no legisation to say they dont....its called having a grown up conversation...maybe you dont get that

most landlords (take it your one) and agents (you could be that too from the sound of you) behave in an unacceptable manner in relation to deposits, a landlord never has a right to keep any part of the deposit for anything without proving what they are spending it on with receipts and they can only retain the deposit for, rent not paid, wear and tear above the nom - open to debate, and unpaid bills....cleaning COBWEBS and chucking stuff that was left in the bathroom does not amount to the 250euro (you think is acceptable to retain)

think you need to calm down a bit stillwaters read you posts and get hold of reality anyone who thinks 250euro for cleaning is acceptable (im only talking about cobwebs and maybe a few bottles of shampoo as per the OP post) , and who would refuse the tenants offer to have another clean of the place for you is seriously not living in the real world and i am sure if the first post was put to threshold (again like I have said too many times now but none of you seem to get it) they would and will back me up.

If the LL wont give the 250 back or refuses to provide receipts then get the prtb involved

If the tenants have already vacated the property and the term of the lease has expired, the tenants have no right to enter the property.

If the tenants are still in possession of the property and the landlord advises that there will be a deduction from the deposit for cleaning, the tenants may then either do it themselves or get a professional cleaner to do it.

If there is no inventory (should be with the tenancy agreement) signed by the tenants confirming the condition and cleanliness of the property at the start of the tenancy then the landlord would have a hard time proving to the PRTB that the property was not left in the same condition (excepting normal wear and tear) and therefore cannot retain any of the deposit.

In any claims with the PRTB, where the landlord was awarded the costs, from the tenant the landlord has had evidence of the condition at the start of the tenancy and at the end of the tenancy. Sometimes it was via the Inventory and sometimes the landlord was able to provide receipts from professional cleaners or for painting and decorating immediately prior the start of the new tenancy.

Some lease agreements specify that the property must be professionally cleaned at the end of the tenancy.

fasttalkerchat

odds_on wrote: »

Some lease agreements specify that the property must be professionally cleaned at the end of the tenancy.

Surely that would be at the LL's cost? That can't be taken from the deposit.

odds_on

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Surely that would be at the LL's cost? That can't be taken from the deposit.

Depends how the clause is worded.
A property should be left in the same condition excluding fair W&T, as it was at the beginning of the tenancy. A lease contract may stipulate that at the termination of the tenancy, the property has to be cleaned professionally (especially if there have been pets in it) or to a professional standard (can be difficult to specify exactly and lead to disputes).

If it has to be cleaned professionally, it gives the tenant the chance of getting quotes from various cleaning companies rather than leaving it to the company of the landlord's choice.

Again, a well worded clause would state who pays but would usually be at the tenant's expense.

sunnysoutheast

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Surely that would be at the LL's cost? That can't be taken from the deposit.

I'd say that is a reasonable deductable expense IF the property was professionally cleaned before the tenants moved in. Leave it as you (can prove you) found it is the golden rule. Threshold appear to be advising that tenants can always go back and put right any issues but I don't believe that has any basis in law.

On the two recent leases I've signed in the UK both stipulated that the property had to be cleaned to the same standard on check-out as at check-in. Off-topic but there is an independent body there which holds deposits too.

Unfortunately, in Ireland, this is often left vague which is why we see so many of these types of thread.

Unfortunately friends of mine have experienced both extremes of tenants moving out in Ireland, the minority where the place was left immaculate but several where the place was left filthy but apparently "cleaned". One house had the loft space filled with the tenant's rubbish bags.

SSE

fasttalkerchat

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I'd say that is a reasonable deductable expense IF the property was professionally cleaned before the tenants moved in. Leave it as you (can prove you) found it is the golden rule. Threshold appear to be advising that tenants can always go back and put right any issues but I don't believe that has any basis in law.

On the two recent leases I've signed in the UK both stipulated that the property had to be cleaned to the same standard on check-out as at check-in. Off-topic but there is an independent body there which holds deposits too.

Unfortunately, in Ireland, this is often left vague which is why we see so many of these types of thread.

Unfortunately friends of mine have experienced both extremes of tenants moving out in Ireland, the minority where the place was left immaculate but several where the place was left filthy but apparently "cleaned". One house had the loft space filled with the tenant's rubbish bags.

SSE

The way I see it is that needing a clean is not damage. Rubbish has a disposal cost in many areas and hiring a cleaner is a reasonable cost so the tenant could be pursued for that.
What I have a problem with is that a minority LLs claim that a deep clean was needed even though photos show that it wasn't and use this as an excuse to dip into the deposit.

About rubbish bags in the loft, I've heard of this happening before. Its something that LLs have to look out for.

Stompbox

So just to update you all. We were convinced that our liaises with the Agency were successful and that we'd be reissued with our full deposits but we received the cheque in the mail today and they deducted the cleaning costs! What approach should we pursue now?

runawaybishop

Contact Agents and inform them you will be lodging a complaint, then get onto https://www.prtb.ie/