How many calves can a Suckler Cow have before replacement

GoodMan55985

Hi,

Just wondering how many calves do your Suckler cows have before you replace them. Just looking for advice on this topic, things to look out for, etc.

Thanks

Caffrey78

We have a Simmental herd and cows from '95 still calving.
We've kept a lot of replacements in the last 3-4 years and these are all bred out of these cows.
I suppose it all depends on ease of calving etc as to how long your cows will last.
What's the age of yours.

GoodMan55985

The majority of our cows are 2003 born and at this stage on their seventh calf and eight for next year. They have been put back in calf. Just wanted to see how many calves a cow has in a suckler herd before replacement for most suckler farmers

49801

keep them poping out calves for as long as they will but i'd say 10-12 calves is a good number.
There are more reasons to Cull a cow than good reasons to keep them so it really just depends on what your objectives are at the time.
no empty cows is the is the most important and hardest rule to take/follow.
Health
Stocking rate related
Genetic Gain and many many more.

I'd say a cull rate of 20% would be on the high side. 10% would be my target but if I could get to 12% I'd be happy.

Tipp Man

49801 wrote: »

keep them poping out calves for as long as they will but i'd say 10-12 calves is a good number.
There are more reasons to Cull a cow than good reasons to keep them so it really just depends on what your objectives are at the time.
no empty cows is the is the most important and hardest rule to take/follow.
Health
Stocking rate related
Genetic Gain and many many more.

I'd say a cull rate of 20% would be on the high side. 10% would be my target but if I could get to 12% I'd be happy.

bloody hell - dairy herds would class 20% as too high

Caffrey78

Culling about 4-5% myself.
Don't necessarily agree with culling if a cow doesn't prove in calf, get her the next time round and if it doesn't happen the second time then consider getting rid of her.
The majority of my herd are 3rd or 4th calvers. There have been a lot of replacements kept from one bull to run with a new bull. Eventually he'll have to be got rid of.

blue5000

I suppose a lot of it is down to personal choice. If you have autumn and spring calving a cow could slip from spring to autumn calving and not increase costs too much.

If you want a tight, say 12 week spring calving herd then late calvers will be culled for being empty after the bull is taken out. Cows will probably only last 5 or 6 calvings in this system, but on a farm where cows slip from spring to autumn they will last 10-12 years. The big disadvantage of doing this is that overall herd fertility will be reduced if more progeny from poor fertility cows are kept for breeding.

countygorey

Tipp Man wrote: »

bloody hell - dairy herds would class 20% as too high

,

locky76

GoodMan55985 wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering how many calves do your Suckler cows have before you replace them. Just looking for advice on this topic, things to look out for, etc.

Thanks

I would be interested in what people think of the sustem which i'm working at present with a suckler to beef herd of 20 cows (should really be at 24 but i'm working towards it)

• Aim to bring 20% of your herd in as replacement heifers each year
• e.g. 20 cow herd, have 4 replacements going to the bull also each year
• Keep to a 12 week breeding program
• Cull any empty cows
• Cull any mad/crazy cows
• Cull any poor performing cow (daily weight gain of their progeny)
• Cull any cows who lose a calf

If you do this for 5 years you will have a nice spread of ages, it's a bit of a time bomb holding onto cows all the same age even if they or their progeny aren't performing

This way you will be selling 4 cull cows each year, this has worked out that my replacements are revenue neutral, the cows pay for them.
It's working ok for me and thank god my two favourite cows have gone back in calf each time, haven't lost a calf and their progeny are performing fairly well;)
Any comments on the above appreciated

Conflats

Cull the cow when shes either
1) She won't go in calf- 2 shots 3rd if still within the 12 weeks
2) health
3) previous calving history
4) Poor calf (after trying different breeds etc)

so long story short the cow stays as long as there is no problems have had cows here for 10/11 years and 1/2 calvings depends on the individual cow

Farmer Pudsey

locky76 wrote: »

I would be interested in what people think of the sustem which i'm working at present with a suckler to beef herd of 20 cows (should really be at 24 but i'm working towards it)

• Aim to bring 20% of your herd in as replacement heifers each year
• e.g. 20 cow herd, have 4 replacements going to the bull also each year
• Keep to a 12 week breeding program
• Cull any empty cows
• Cull any mad/crazy cows
• Cull any poor performing cow (daily weight gain of their progeny)
• Cull any cows who lose a calf

If you do this for 5 years you will have a nice spread of ages, it's a bit of a time bomb holding onto cows all the same age even if they or their progeny aren't performing

This way you will be selling 4 cull cows each year, this has worked out that my replacements are revenue neutral, the cows pay for them.
It's working ok for me and thank god my two favourite cows have gone back in calf each time, haven't lost a calf and their progeny are performing fairly well;)
Any comments on the above appreciated

What you are doing is an ideal system as the cull cow is the same value as the replacement heifer. Young cull cows always sell well especially beef breeds as they will put up weight. Carrying over an empty cow is silly due to cost.

As you have replacements lined up every year you are not dependant on the market to buy replacements if you suddenly find cows not incalf or other issues.I see some farmers caught this year having to pay crazy prices for replacements.

Do you finish the cull cows or sell as store cows in the mart. Your system would suit many sucklers with 50-60 cows as they would be culling 10-12 cows every year and could finish as a bunch ans sell togeather and have a bit of bargining power.

Using this system in 10 years you will have good cows all the time and good cull prices, dowm the line do not be afraid to cull on age as well.

49801

locky76 wrote: »

[*]Cull any cows who lose a calf

Dead calves should be skinned and replaced... Even with a dairy bull calf. At least the cow will cover her cost of keeping her for the year.

Farmer Pudsey

49801 wrote: »

Dead calves should be skinned and replaced... Even with a dairy bull calf. At least the cow will cover her cost of keeping her for the year.

Not always possible as you need to have access to a calf straight away, it will not always work even then and with big contentintal sucklers is often a lot of work from seeing posts on the matter.

If you have a system like locky76 there is no need to go through that hassle as she will cover the cost of the replacment heifer.

Dozer1

I think its down totally to the each cow, some will have good udders and feet and easily have 11 or 12 calves other cows won't and that moves them up the line to be culled.

my biggest culling reason at the moment is quality, too many average cows with average calves.
when numbers are small like on my farm carrying average cows really hits the bottom line in bigger numbers they can be carried easier.

locky76

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What you are doing is an ideal system as the cull cow is the same value as the replacement heifer. Young cull cows always sell well especially beef breeds as they will put up weight. Carrying over an empty cow is silly due to cost.

As you have replacements lined up every year you are not dependant on the market to buy replacements if you suddenly find cows not incalf or other issues.I see some farmers caught this year having to pay crazy prices for replacements.

Do you finish the cull cows or sell as store cows in the mart. Your system would suit many sucklers with 50-60 cows as they would be culling 10-12 cows every year and could finish as a bunch ans sell togeather and have a bit of bargining power.

Using this system in 10 years you will have good cows all the time and good cull prices, dowm the line do not be afraid to cull on age as well.

Thanks for the compliment on the system Puds, it kinda developed without i knowing it or having a definite plan.
I would finish the cull cows myself, I try and get a few of them together, get them fleshed on grass and then give them 6 weeks of nuts @ 4kgs per head, this tightens them up nicely and they grade and weigh fairly well. They'd do as well if not better price wise than heifers due to their higher live weight offsetting the lower price per kilo.

locky76

49801 wrote: »

Dead calves should be skinned and replaced... Even with a dairy bull calf. At least the cow will cover her cost of keeping her for the year.

I wouldn't agree 49801, I've lost calves this year and last and I've tried to get them to adopt a new calf, it's a complete pain in the h**e even if the cow takes, in future if she has a dead calf i'll be drying her off, giving her good grass with the stores and 6 weeks of intensive feed, this way you'll see money back within 3 months of her having the dead calf and you're cutting out the messing of trying to get her to adopt a calf.

blue5000

With locky on this one, cull cows are making good money, good prices may not be there next yr or the yr after. Unless it's a first or second calver, out the gate she goes.

49801

locky76 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree 49801, I've lost calves this year and last and I've tried to get them to adopt a new calf, it's a complete pain in the h**e even if the cow takes, in future if she has a dead calf i'll be drying her off, giving her good grass with the stores and 6 weeks of intensive feed, this way you'll see money back within 3 months of her having the dead calf and you're cutting out the messing of trying to get her to adopt a calf.

Yes there are challenges no matter what you do. We skinned for the first time this winter and it made things so much easier . Was really worth the unpleasentness.:o

We are really struggling to keep the numbers up so we try our best to keep the good ones. Replacements bought in or home reared are not 100% successful either.:rolleyes:

Slaughter 2 culls two weeks ago. One was r4 and the other was o5. Over 12 hundred each and the did not see one bit of meal. Just grass since start of feb.One of them had a bad udder so the calf was taken off her and the other turned up empty having scanned as being I calf :mad:

porter shark

i can't find a nice way of saying this boys so here goes.... ye're all waffling. we all have good cows, middlin cows and super cows that leave twice as much profit as our average cow.
therefore it makes sense to just consider the situation that arises, whether it be the loss of a calf or the cow showing up empty or simply the cow being old... if she was your most profitable cow this year would you not chance one more calf out of her?

hate to ruin the debate but i reckon any farmer in the country would treat every cow individually.

blue5000

Slightly off topic but what are ppl doing for replacements, buying in or breeding their own? I breed my own.

Dozer1

A touchy subject on my farm,
old lad always sold the suckler heifers as weanlings and bought bucket fed calves to bring on as replacements normally AAxFR or HExFR.

Since I've started I've tried to change this to keeping the best heifers I can for breeding, didn't go well the first year as only kept 3 and only one held incalf and she wasn't great tbh, have another 3 this year and 2 bought in bucket fed Limo's so will see how it goes.

getting them scanned in the next few weeks so fingers crossed.