Finally, new tyre performance ratings

mullingar

From today, all tyres manufactured for sale in the EU market must have a wet grip performance rating amongst others.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Your-Vehicles-Tyres-/Choosing-a-Tyre/

Hopefully Joe Public will finally realise the true poor value of Chinese tyres.

Alanstrainor

That's brilliant, I'd have my doubts about whether or not it will stop Joe public from buying cheap crap. 99% of punters will go to the local tyre shop and ask for the cheapest they have.

firedub

Just looking at the RSA website. They won't be on sale till november.
"This regulation requires that tyres manufactured from 1st July 2012 for cars, light commercial vehicles and heavy trucks and placed on sale from 1st November 2012, carry a label showing the tyre's wet grip, fuel efficiency and noise performance"

Doubt there's a 4 month lead time from factory to tyre shop
There'll be some of them seen well before November.

mickdw

I know it will be compulsorary but I hope people actively ask about the rating. Too many tyre shops will try to pass off cheap crap while hiding the rating. Also, there are ratings for noise, fuel economy and grip it seems. I guess its possible for cheap tyres with low grip to have a good fuel efficiency rating - again this could be used to confuse the issue

BIBENDUM

mickdw wrote: »

I know it will be compulsorary but I hope people actively ask about the rating. Too many tyre shops will try to pass off cheap crap while hiding the rating. Also, there are ratings for noise, fuel economy and grip it seems. I guess its possible for cheap tyres with low grip to have a good fuel efficiency rating - again this could be used to confuse the issue

Log onto www.etrma.org to get the official procedure of how retailers have to offer a tyre to a consumer. What you are suggesting will happen, but it will be against the EU law. Germany already have a fine of €50,000 for miss selling a tyre. www.itia.ie are pushing the issue to find out who is going to implement the new new laws here.

BIBENDUM

BIBENDUM wrote: »

..............

Do you sell tyres for a living?

Nissan doctor

They don't mean a thing in reality, for two main reasons.

1, The majority of the motoring public's sole criteria for buying a tyre is price.

2, Like E marks, these ratings are set by the tyre manufacturers, not any independent body, so, also like E marks, do not prove anything about the quality of the tyre.

wonski

Nissan doctor wrote: »

They don't mean a thing in reality, for two main reasons.

1, The majority of the motoring public's sole criteria for buying a tyre is price.

2, Like E marks, these ratings are set by the tyre manufacturers, not any independent body, so, like E marks, do not prove anything about the quality of the tyre.

There has to be some reason behind tires getting different ratings?
I don't believe it is just manufacturers who put those stickers as they want.

I do however accept the fact, that it is more of a indication of how well/bad the tire performs under certain condition....

Nissan doctor

wonski wrote: »

There has to be some reason behind tires getting different ratings?
I don't believe it is just manufacturers who put those stickers as they want.

I do however accept the fact, that it is more of a indication of how well/bad the tire performs under certain condition....

You can generally trust that the major manufacturers(bridgestone/dunlop/pirelli etc etc) will accurately rate their tyres as they will develop they tyres to meet these requirements.

But the untested Chinese stuff that is sold here will have these and I can assure you that all their ratings will be right up there with the premium brands according to the stickers. Do you really think that any manufacturer will put a sticker on their tyre saying that its wet weather traction is rubbish?

Tyres already have threadwear, traction, temperature ratings stamped onto them, and most of the chinese stuff has traction ratings of A or AA stamped on them...the same as what's stamped onto the premium brands and this will immediately raise alarm bells for anyone who has driven on these tyres.


The problem with the whole thing is that the Tyre industry in Europe is largely self regulated and almost all of the European 'laws' regarding tyres are actually directives, not laws, meaning there is no serious pushing to implement them nor is there any penalties if they aren't implemented.

BIBENDUM

Nissan doctor wrote: »

They don't mean a thing in reality, for two main reasons.

1, The majority of the motoring public's sole criteria for buying a tyre is price.

2, Like E marks, these ratings are set by the tyre manufacturers, not any independent body, so, also like E marks, do not prove anything about the quality of the tyre.

1. Its the reason the labelling is coming out. You see the same type of label on a washing machine and a new car. It will help educate the consumer to look at a product besides price. Unlike mainland European motorists, most Irish motorists are indifferent to tyre benefits. But there is now a legal procedure on how a consumer can expect to be offered a tyre.

2. The E mark was only there to differentiate European tyres from the rest of the world. The quality of tyres can be determined by which tyres are approved and fitted to new cars and then by independent consumer tests ADAC.DE and TUV.DE. If you haven't heard of a tyre make and don't know anything about a product ones buying, all you have is price. If one doesn't care about what you need, then one goes for the cheapest. Same with any product really.:rolleyes:

wonski

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You can generally trust that the major manufacturers(bridgestone/dunlop/pirelli etc etc) will accurately rate their tyres as they will develop they tyres to meet these requirements.

But the untested Chinese stuff that is sold here will have these and I can assure you that all their ratings will be right up there with the premium brands according to the stickers. Do you really think that any manufacturer will put a sticker on their tyre saying that its wet weather traction is rubbish?

Tyres already have threadwear, traction, temperature ratings stamped onto them, and most of the chinese stuff has traction ratings of A or AA stamped on them...the same as what's stamped onto the premium brands and this will immediately raise alarm bells for anyone who has driven on these tyres.


The problem with the whole thing is that the Tyre industry in Europe is largely self regulated and almost all of the European 'laws' regarding tyres are actually directives, not laws, meaning there is no serious pushing to implement them nor is there any penalties if they aren't implemented.

I guess we now have to wait until we see the first tires labelled...
I hope you are wrong, but if we see some Sunnys having the same rating as, let's say, Barums, i will start to worry...
Not to mention when Sunny or Wanli gets similiar rating to top brands.

Any chance to see those rating on manufacturers websites, before the November deadline?

Nissan doctor

BIBENDUM wrote: »

1. Its the reason the labelling is coming out. You see the same type of label on a washing machine and a new car. It will help educate the consumer to look at a product besides price. Unlike mainland European motorists, most Irish motorists are indifferent to tyre benefits. But there is now a legal procedure on how a consumer can expect to be offered a tyre.

2. The E mark was only there to differentiate European tyres from the rest of the world. The quality of tyres can be determined by which tyres are approved and fitted to new cars and then by independent consumer tests ADAC.DE and TUV.DE. If you haven't heard of a tyre make and don't know anything about a product ones buying, all you have is price. If one doesn't care about what you need, then one goes for the cheapest. Same with any product really.:rolleyes:

There is no Legal procedures at all, as I said, there are directives. Are you coming from the same stock that say things like plugging a car tyre is illegal?

Also the E mark has nothing to do with were tyres are from.

BIBENDUM

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You can generally trust that the major manufacturers(bridgestone/dunlop/pirelli etc etc) will accurately rate their tyres as they will develop they tyres to meet these requirements.

But the untested Chinese stuff that is sold here will have these and I can assure you that all their ratings will be right up there with the premium brands according to the stickers. Do you really think that any manufacturer will put a sticker on their tyre saying that its wet weather traction is rubbish?
All the manufacturers are striving to get better results with new patterns already in the media but not in the market yet. Chinese tyres are poor and everyone knows this, but people still buy them on price, but it might mae then think twice.

Tyres already have threadwear, traction, temperature ratings stamped onto them, and most of the chinese stuff has traction ratings of A or AA stamped on them...the same as what's stamped onto the premium brands and this will immediately raise alarm bells for anyone who has driven on these tyres.
These markings are for US market and have no relevance in Europe. And that was the problem. The new label will start to address this as its the 1st step of many to come every 2 years.


The problem with the whole thing is that the Tyre industry in Europe is largely self regulated and almost all of the European 'laws' regarding tyres are actually directives, not laws, meaning there is no serious pushing to implement them nor is there any penalties if they aren't implemented.

The government have to appoint an agency here to enforce the laws. The UK might have the trading standards agency, but its a poison challenge for anyone. We dont like enforcement. The new points on the licence may include tyres now with 3 points for faulty tyres. We'll see

Nissan doctor

BIBENDUM wrote: »

The government have to appoint an agency here to enforce the laws. The UK might have the trading standards agency, but its a poison challenge for anyone. We dont like enforcement. The new points on the licence may include tyres now with 3 points for faulty tyres. We'll see

We will...

BIBENDUM

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There is no Legal procedures at all, as I said, there are directives. Are you coming from the same stock that say things like plugging a car tyre is illegal?[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"] Not at all, manufactures have their own set standards as to how their tyre can be repaired. Plugging is not recommended by manufacturers as a permanent repair. So its down to each repairer to decide if the extent of the damage and which warrants plug or full repair. [/COLOR]

Also the E mark has nothing to do with were tyres are from.

Your right, its a standard of set criteria as set by Europe as to what tyres were allowed to be sold in Europe. But it did'nt mean that tyres sold outside of Europe were any better or worse. As each region has its own standard for certain criteria.

Nissan doctor

BIBENDUM wrote: »

Your right, its a standard of set criteria as set by Europe as to what tyres were allowed to be sold in Europe. But it did'nt mean that tyres sold outside of Europe were any better or worse. As each region has its own standard for certain criteria.

If your talking about the E mark, it simply means that the tyre manufacturer states that their tyres meet European regulations.

As you are presumably aware, only tyres with the second e mark(lower case e) have actually been tested as meeting these criteria.

mullingar

I really doubt the big tyre companies will allow the chinese tyres to rate their crap way above their true rating.
These big boys have serious money behind them to go to EU court as the last thing they want is to lose sales to chinese crap on incorrect data.

I see one of the big boys now have the labels on their websites:
http://www.vredestein.com/car-tyres/summer/sportrac-3/sizes/

firedub

Just had a look. A lot of E's & F's for fuel consumption and C's for grip in wet weather. I wonder is that going to be the norm

mullingar

firedub wrote: »

Just had a look. A lot of E's & F's for fuel consumption and C's for grip in wet weather. I wonder is that going to be the norm

Thankfully no.

The new Michelin Energy saver is a B & A.



Michelins website has all the details/ratings below., interesting that the different sizes make a big difference to its rating....

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-energy-saver#tab-tyres-sizes

bmstuff

Who put chinese tyres on their cars anyway? I mean yes I know local shops are selling them, but you must have a death wish to buy them.

A good tyre for a small saloon car is about 70-80 euro, thats for a 205x16.

You can get cheaper, this one was a Dunlop, but come on, a poorly made tyre directly affects fuel economy, is noizy, is dangerous in the wet, does not offer precise direction, wears out quickly etc...

mullingar

bmstuff wrote: »

Who put chinese tyres on their cars anyway? I mean yes I know local shops are selling them, but you must have a death wish to buy them.

Unfortunately, those who are not very tyre-savvy put them on their car due to bad sales tactics.

Tyre shops have a better profit margin on chinese sh1te than premium tyres, so the do their best to flog a full set of 4 ditch-finders

MrDerp

mickdw wrote: »

I know it will be compulsorary but I hope people actively ask about the rating. Too many tyre shops will try to pass off cheap crap while hiding the rating. Also, there are ratings for noise, fuel economy and grip it seems. I guess its possible for cheap tyres with low grip to have a good fuel efficiency rating - again this could be used to confuse the issue

To be fair, any time I've ever bought tyres I've been presented with the options as Budget, Mid-range and Premium, and I've never had the budget recommended.

It's typically presented as "<brand X> is our mid-range brand, we typically recommend those for your mixed city/motorway driving. Our cheapest is <brand Y> which is a budget brand, and well you get what you pay for with these"

Nissan doctor

mullingar wrote: »

Unfortunately, those who are not very tyre-savvy put them on their car due to bad sales tactics.

Tyre shops have a better profit margin on chinese sh1te than premium tyres, so the do their best to flog a full set of 4 ditch-finders

Maybe the small back street places who are buying their Chinese tyres out of the back of containers. Any of the major places will try to sell the premium tyres.

The problem with this is, many people just think they are being upsold/ripped off as to them, a tyre is a round black thing that's sole purpose is to pass the NCT.

jeffk

I know its an old thread, but I didn’t want to start a new one for a question.


Looking at a receipt for work I got done, I got these new tires
Kormoran 84T Impulser 8 Fuel: F Grip: C Noise 62dB

When I was sold them, I was told x brand is 85 each and these where 65 and of course as I was paying for new break pads and discs I chose the cheaper ones.

I suppose there is not a lot I can do now, but are these that bad? I mean when I got the car second-hand im guessing it had some similar tyres on it

Thanks for any info

Ronnie Beck

jeffk wrote: »

I know its an old thread, but I didn’t want to start a new one for a question.


Looking at a receipt for work I got done, I got these new tires
Kormoran 84T Impulser 8 Fuel: F Grip: C Noise 62dB

When I was sold them, I was told x brand is 85 each and these where 65 and of course as I was paying for new break pads and discs I chose the cheaper ones.

I suppose there is not a lot I can do now, but are these that bad? I mean when I got the car second-hand im guessing it had some similar tyres on it

Thanks for any info

Kormoran are made by michelin. Nothing to worry about. Roll resistance is high but the extra cost will be unnoticeable really.

challengemaster

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

Kormoran are made by michelin. Nothing to worry about. Roll resistance is high but the extra cost will be unnoticeable really.

No... Kormoran are OWNED by Michelin. There's a big difference, they're still shíte tyres.

Ronnie Beck

challengemaster wrote: »

No... Kormoran are OWNED by Michelin. There's a big difference, they're still shíte tyres.

There not that bad. You could do alot worse if your in the market for budget tyres for your average car IMO.

Mint Sauce

mullingar wrote: »

From today, all tyres manufactured for sale in the EU market must have a wet grip performance rating amongst others.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Your-Vehicles-Tyres-/Choosing-a-Tyre/

Hopefully Joe Public will finally realise the true poor value of Chinese tyres.

How well though will the public know about these ratings, I have seen no publicty for them, and only discovered them by accident when I went into the service area of the tyre centre and seen them on display.

Although already had my research done by that stage and had a good idea what I wanted.

Senna

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

There not that bad. You could do alot worse if your in the market for budget tyres for your average car IMO.

True, but you could also do a lot lot better.

I need 4 tyres soon and someone recommend the Bridgestone Turanza, they have an E in both fuel efficiently and wet holding:eek:
For my car I think "Goodyear Efficient Grip" might be the ones to go for, €85 a tyre with a B in roll and A in wet.

bazz26

Aren't these new ratings issued by the tyre companies themselves rather than tested by an independant body? If so then it just seems a bit pointless imo, who is going to give themselves a bad rating?

Senna

bazz26 wrote: »

Aren't these new ratings issued by the tyre companies themselves rather than tested by an independant body? If so then it just seems a bit pointless imo, who is going to give themselves a bad rating?

Going by eiretyres, I doubt some of the brands (premium brands and cheap brands) are giving themselves rubbish ratings by choice.
But I do see a good few tyres on eiretyre without the ratings.

HJL

If a tyre had an A rating for rolling resistance could this be read as it doesnt have as much grip on corning? Or are they completly different things?

MadMardegan

What's the general consensus on Vredestein?
Looking to buy 4x Sportrac 5's in the coming weeks.
Have seen good reviews and it's going for around 75euro on eiretyres.
Has a C/B rating too.

challengemaster

MadMardegan wrote: »

What's the general consensus on Vredestein?
Looking to buy 4x Sportrac 5's in the coming weeks.
Have seen good reviews and it's going for around 75euro on eiretyres.
Has a C/B rating too.

General consensus is they're a very good reasonably priced tyre

MadMardegan

challengemaster wrote: »

General consensus is they're a very good reasonably priced tyre

The Michellin Energy Saver certainly looks more appealing but at 115 a corner it's a little too rich for me.

sebastianlieken

I have cheapy chinesse tyres on the Golf. They came new with fresh threads when I bought the car about 4/5 months ago. The majority of my driving is 30mph commuting in light traffic for 10 mins so i'm not too concerned. I've had a few instances where i've had to brake quite hard on wet road and they've been fine, the tyres didn't skid at all. (no abs coming on and now screetching). As for economy they're fine too, i'm getting OEM advertised MPG. Noisewise, they're not fantastic at speed, they are what I hear above all else but I come from driving jeeps so it's relative silence.

I know there's going to be a reply saying "all it takes is one time on a wet road" and it's true that a proper michillen or pirelli tyre will probably see me better in that respect. However, I have no reason to doubt the tires that are currently on it and although in an ideal world I should like to upgrade them for the potential benefit of myself and others, however I live in the real world and it just isn't feasible right now.

If I were doing proper mileage, country roads, higher speeds, if i were an agressive driver, etc. then it begins to factor in more heavily. For now though, these tires suit my needs perfectly.

Tea 1000

HJL wrote: »

If a tyre had an A rating for rolling resistance could this be read as it doesnt have as much grip on corning? Or are they completly different things?

It would certainly affect it, but there are some tyres out there with double A rating. However they only rate rolling resistance and wet braking. There are many other factors, chief among them would be lateral grip.

Tea 1000

sebastianlieken wrote: »

I have cheapy chinesse tyres on the Golf. They came new with fresh threads when I bought the car about 4/5 months ago. The majority of my driving is 30mph commuting in light traffic for 10 mins so i'm not too concerned. I've had a few instances where i've had to brake quite hard on wet road and they've been fine, the tyres didn't skid at all. (no abs coming on and now screetching). As for economy they're fine too, i'm getting OEM advertised MPG. Noisewise, they're not fantastic at speed, they are what I hear above all else but I come from driving jeeps so it's relative silence.

I know there's going to be a reply saying "all it takes is one time on a wet road" and it's true that a proper michillen or pirelli tyre will probably see me better in that respect. However, I have no reason to doubt the tires that are currently on it and although in an ideal world I should like to upgrade them for the potential benefit of myself and others, however I live in the real world and it just isn't feasible right now.

If I were doing proper mileage, country roads, higher speeds, if i were an agressive driver, etc. then it begins to factor in more heavily. For now though, these tires suit my needs perfectly.

There's no doubt that only one incident is enough to repay many, many years of paying extra for tyres.
But so long as you know the limits of what's on your car and adjust your driving accordingly, then it should see you right until it's time for a change.
Some very good reasonably priced tyres out there these days.

Andy454

I paid 750 euro for a full set of pirelli's that lasted less than 10k km

I paid 600 euro for a full set of Dunlops that developed cracking around the inside walls of the tyres.

I've been using part worns continental's ever since, at 240euro for a full set, they are perfect for running up high mileage...

If you drive in a manner that your life depends on hairline percentage performance of one tyre brand against another, you need to send back your licence and re-apply.

Once your tyres are in good condition, aligned correctly and have sufficient tyre depth, the way you drive should take into account everything else.

Matt Simis

sebastianlieken wrote: »

If I were doing proper mileage, country roads, higher speeds, if i were an agressive driver, etc. then it begins to factor in more heavily. For now though, these tires suit my needs perfectly.

4 Triangle's on the Subaru I bought. Thank god the car is AWD is all Ill say. While not instant I'm on an Ice Rink death, the tyres seem to be actively trying to pull the car off the road in the wet/rain. In the drive they seem fine.

Stallingrad

I think it's a good thing. While price is still the key factor for most, at least now you could look at two cheap tyres from different makers, and pick the one with the better rating.

aristotle25

Tea 1000 wrote: »

There's no doubt that only one incident is enough to repay many, many years of paying extra for tyres..

I have an example for that. My brother in a 530d has poor performance Chinese tyres (Sunny) and at low speed in a car park the car skidded on the ramp and has casued between €1-€2k damage to the front and rear corner bumpers. He really is not a fast driver so this was caused by the tyres lack of grip.

I used to be of the opinion that all tyres are the same but I educated myself

Those Sunny Tyres can take up to 20meters longer to break in wet conditions versus the best tyres.

I now run Mechilin tyres and with a 6 month old baby in the back I at least know I am doing the best I can to improve the safety of the car.

bazz26

Anyone who puts cheap tyres like Sunny on a rwd car especially a powerful one, must have some sort of death wish or likes ditches.

aristotle25

bazz26 wrote: »

Anyone who puts cheap tyres like Sunny on a rwd car especially a powerful one, must have some sort of death wish or likes ditches.

It was a BMW dealer who sold the car with sunnys on it.

Majority of people would not realise how dangerous in the wet they are especially on a RWD car with 230bhp.

skyhighflyer

Posted a thread here about three months ago about the four 'Wanli' tyres that had been fitted new to my car by the previous owner. General consensus seemed to be that I'd be dead or backwards into a ditch before long but that hasn't happened. Reviews for my particular tyre on tyrereviews.co.uk are around 70% on average.

Not trying to say that they're as good or grippy as Bridgestones sure, but they're fine in the dry and decent enough in the wet - I've deliverately tried to break traction on a few (deserted) wet roundabouts and accelerated hard away from junctions and only noticed predictable slippage.

Probably won't fit them again for the simple reason that I'd spend €400 to have a set of premium tyres rather than €300 on budget ones, but at the same time I've been wondering how much about Chinese tyres is conjecture rather than based on actual experience.

mullingar

Wanli tyres have a very poor E wet rating.

http://www.wanli-tyres.com/fileadmin/tyres/Wanli/docs/brochure_wanli_winter_eco_labels.pdf

mullingar

Some Triangle tyres are worse.

The TR7*** are a F!
The TR9*** are better with a C


http://global.triangle.com.cn/EU/1139.htm

randy hickey

MadMardegan wrote: »

The Michellin Energy Saver certainly looks more appealing but at 115 a corner it's a little too rich for me.

This; http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Michelin/Energy-Saver.htm

Versus this; http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vredestein/Sportrac-5.htm

IMO the Vredestein Sportrac 5 wins hands down.

porsche boy

I have been watching these tyre grades with anticipation as its the manufacturers themselves rating the tyres. I have a pic of a tyre called 'Double Coin' giving themselves a B/B rating. That has proven to me these ratings are a joke and not to be basing your purchase on. Besides, tyres were rated for longevity and grip long before this, its printed on the side of the tyre.