Austin vs Hogan

Charisteas

rovert wrote: »

The @WWECreative account unmasked yesterday as former WWE writer Robert Karpeles from the mid 00s for an interview with Bryan Alvarez. The summary:

-Mania 22 ideas were Hogan/Austin, but they couldn't come together on a finish.

It's a crying shame that match never happened. Obv neither guy was willing to lose the match, they could have somehow booked a draw though.

Handsome Bob

Charisteas wrote: »

It's a crying shame that match never happened. Obv neither guy was willing to lose the match, they could have somehow booked a draw though.

A draw is an abomination in pro wrestling, no-one benefits from it, it's meaningless.

gnfnrhead

Charisteas wrote: »

It's a crying shame that match never happened. Obv neither guy was willing to lose the match, they could have somehow booked a draw though.

Don't tell them who is winning until they are already out there :pac:

jaykhunter

I agree that main events - especially huge ones, demand a pay-off. This Verne Gagne "retired undefeated as champion" mentality is a massive bane to pro-wrestling. I get the impression that Austin never wanted to wrestle Hogan (besides shooting it down for X8) is that he'd deviate from the script, get himself over and maybe politik a win after the match is announced.

I'm sure it would've been massive, but I think much like Flair Hogan in the WWF, maybe it'd be riddled with problems and not follow-through.

Stereomaniac

I read somewhere that Hogan was unwilling to lose to Steve Austin, yeah. Austin described it as "a shame", if I remember correctly. I much rather him against a good worker though.

CastorTroy

On the Hogan not wanting to lose thing, I remember there was a tag match in WWE with Hogan on one team and Flair on the other. I can't remember who the partners were, but Flair's partner was going to no-sell the leg drop. So Flair knew he wasn't going to sell it and came into the ring when Hogan covered for the pin causing Hogan to get up. But you could tell the guy was kicking out of the pin anyway. Anyone remember that match?

Angron

Handsome Bob wrote: »

A draw is an abomination in pro wrestling, no-one benefits from it, it's meaningless.

Plus, at Wrestlemania of all things it'd be ten times worse.

Riddle101

-Vince McMahon thought of a long term storyline plan in 5-10 mins. In the October Raw homecoming show in 2005, Vin Man was going to come out and bury everyone like he does backstage. And basically ask who is going to take that brass ring. At the end of the show, Vin Man was going to get hit by a car. Mick Foley was going to be hired to be the investigator. It was going to turn out that Foley was the man that hit Vince because he didn't want Vince to hand over the company to Triple H and Steph because Triple H is the guy that ended Foley's career and he's an evil person. (They were going to publicly mention for the first time that H and Steph were really married at that point, and the plan for them to eventually inherit the company)

Then Shane was going to fight Foley at Mania to defend the family honor. Triple H would beat Cena for the WWE title at Mania with help from Shane in some way. Then as Triple H is at the ramp holding the WWE title with Shane, Steph was going to come out and hug Triple H, then Vince & Linda were going to come out and they were going to show the McMahon family united at the ramp.

Sounds like a good storyline but it seems to be a rehashing of the who ran over Austin angle and the McMahon/Helmsley Faction. But sure I like both angles so it might have been great.

-Apparently after Vince thought of this, the next week he thought of some storyline that involved him going away for months from the public eye. Not even attending stockholder and business meetings. They were going to put this on wwe.com to make it a huge deal, and eventually Vince was going to return with a HOBO ARMY. Can't make this up. (Of course this wouldn't of worked because they're a public traded company and something like this would nearly kill the company)

Lol a hobo army would have been very entertaining, especially if Vince came out dressed as one too, with a big scruffy beard and a dirty suit.

-McMahon was going to start his own church, and give speeches about what's wrong with government, religion, the world, etc.

Hmm seems like a prelude to McMahon Vs God angle that they ran during his fued with Shawn Michaels. Maybe that's where the idea came from.

-Bob Orton Jr was brought in to help Randy Orton get his issues straight at the time. That's partly why he was on the road with him during that time period. Also working with Taker was suppose to help as well since Taker was a respected vet.

Good idea actually, his dad and Undertaker trying to get Orton straight. Couldn't have asked for a better way to do it really.

-Lashley was put on TV after Vin Man seen him at Patterson's birthday party. Vince was going through notes, seen Lashley walk by in the hallway and said (in Vince voice) "God damn put that guy on TV." () They put him against Simon Dean that night in Lashley's first match on TV.

Don't know what to think about it. Firstly how did Lashley just happen to walk past them? where was this party? or was he really just a good friend of Pat Patterson;). Secondly if true then Vince really dosen't know much about picking talent if he would just randomly pick a guy walking by him in the hallway.

During the Angle/Cena fued in late 2005, creative members were also trying to write stories for mid-card guys because everyone on the roster had some type of storyline or story in the late 90's; which is what they were trying to get back to. However Stephanie sent an email to creative telling them stop worrying about the mid-card guys and to only focus on Angle/Cena. (Sounds like what they do now with bookin

Meh I can't really remember much about 2005 really, so as far as mid-card storylines go I can let that past. But now on the otherhand.....

-Mania 22 ideas were Hogan/Austin, but they couldn't come together on a finish. Triple H/Cena, and Lesnar/Batista since Lesnar was in mild talks with them at the time. (Of course Batista ended up getting hurt too)

Heard the story about Hogan/Austin already, not suprised really. They both have huge ego and proberly too stubborn, and Lesnar/Batista would have been interesting to see.

Stereomaniac

I am always amazed at how Shawn Michaels allowed himself to take part in that angle with Vince.

SlickRic

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I am always amazed at how Shawn Michaels allowed himself to take part in that angle with Vince.

because, as you'd see on Twitter, he's not a religious nut, who takes offence to everything like many religious people.

it's actually quite admirable i think.

he has a faith, but if Vince thinks he can take the píss out of it, it's not for him to judge, and Shawn probably thinks it can only be a good thing if people hear he has a faith.

Mr.Saturn

Handsome Bob wrote: »

A draw is an abomination in pro wrestling, no-one benefits from it, it's meaningless.

Curt Hennig and Nick Bockwinkel come to mind.

rovert

Handsome Bob wrote: »

A draw is an abomination in pro wrestling, no-one benefits from it, it's meaningless.

Yeah not like one made Sting's career or anything. :rolleyes:

ayatollah

a draw when done right and not just out of a lack of a better alternative - if you have a young guy who's on the up and he goes the distance with the champ to a time limit draw or the old double pin carry on - but i havent seen it done right for years, i thought they should have done it with danielson and punk when both were champs in a reunion bout.

first match could have been a time limit draw - second a double pin or double pin / submission.

GM says cant seperate the two - best of 3 series with the last being a 2 out of 3 falls or iron man match.

if there ever were 2 guys who could change up the match enough and have the cardio and ability to do the two and it would have cemented both as maineventers. no shame in the draw or loss there.

this in general is wwe's problem i feel, you never feel anyone is capable of beating cena - which i think is why fans are sick of cena cause as soon as he faces anyone we all know he's going over.

too much protection of certain wrestlers - i remember the old jake roberts theorm ( i know me on about jake roberts again - big surprise - i cant help it i loved the dude - should be mentioned in the same breath as hogan flair etc... but stupid drink & drugs ruined him)
anyways what was i saying - oh right - roberts saw his job as getting main eventers ready for hogan and always said you can go out there and wrestle a guy and win and everyone can say you beat some chump of you can make the guy look great and everyone can say wow some match you won there - or words to that effect - sorry watching the match here bit distracted.

i'd love to see the likes of barrett and rhodes, possibly ziggler and swagger but i fear too much damage might have been done to their characters there, go the distance with the likes of jericho? christian? mysterio? sheamus? Cena? orton?

but seeing kofi and ziggler go through the same motions again and again does nothing for noone.

[/rant]

Charisteas

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Charisteas wrote: »

It's a crying shame that match never happened. Obv neither guy was willing to lose the match, they could have somehow booked a draw though.

A draw is an abomination in pro wrestling, no-one benefits from it, it's meaningless.

Neither Austin nor Hogan needed to benefit from the match, both guys were at the end of their in-ring careers, it wouldn't have been about gain or loss.

If anything, the fans would have benefited from seeing a once-in-a-lifetime match and nobody would have really cared who won or lost. But if neither guy was willing to lose, then a draw would have been better than no match at all.

jaykhunter

Charisteas wrote: »

it wouldn't have been about gain or loss.

Try telling that to them!! Carny wrestlers probably have reams of print-outs of their win-loss records. I can only imagine how horrible it is to be a booker and have to contend & placate egos. A nightmare I'm sure. Hogan must be the worst of them.

rovert

The finish wasn't the only issue.

From what I picked up Austin didn't trust Hogan to take care of his neck and was afraid Hogan would steal the scene like Hogan did at Wrestlemania 18 rather work a match a that was beneficial to both wrestlers.

ayatollah

rovert wrote: »

The finish wasn't the only issue.

From what I picked up Austin didn't trust Hogan to take care of his neck and was afraid Hogan would steal the scene like Hogan did at Wrestlemania 18 rather work a match a that was beneficial to both wrestlers.

smart man austin didnt hogan kick out on andre and then they had to do the whole evil ref thing with dave & earl hebner?

plus hogans ego is notoriously astronomical i remember him talking there a couple of years ago saying michaels had done nothing of note since their fued - this when in the previous 2 years michaels had faced off against the undertaker in 2 of the most ridiculous matches theyd either had - to this day he still has the ego to be appearing on the screen and in the ring.

you wouldnt get that kind of behaviour out of Jake Roberts.

JoeSnow

rovert wrote: »

The finish wasn't the only issue.

From what I picked up Austin didn't trust Hogan to take care of his neck

Where did you pick that up exactly, some newzz site from Nigeria? Ridiculous statement which I have never heard before.

rovert

JoeSnow wrote: »

Where did you pick that up exactly, some newzz site from Nigeria? Ridiculous statement which I have never heard before.

Yes the sheer concept of a man with a broken neck being wary about working with someone with rep of being slightly clumsy that he never really worked with or likes is utterly ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Also I am well known here for making stuff up and reading newzz sites. Aye.

Diabhal Beag

Is JoeSnow seriously mocking wrestlelingniwsnigeria.com? There's no scoop that site can't discover.

rovert

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Is JoeSnow seriously mocking wrestlelingniwsnigeria.com? There's no scoop that site can't discover.

You can partial source that to the bank jack.

Handsome Bob

I gotta lol at someone accusing rovert of reading newz sites, he'll learn. :pac:

deisedude

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I gotta lol at someone accusing rovert of reading newz sites, he'll learn. :pac:

My initial reaction was something like this

JoeSnow

rovert wrote: »

Yes the sheer concept of a man with a broken neck being wary about working with someone with rep of being slightly clumsy that he never really worked with or likes is utterly ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Well go on then, it's been over ten years - go find me a SINGLE reputable account recorded or documented in the last ten to back up what you've claimed. Show us where you "picked this up" as you say.

rovert

Joe, your tact is reminding me of the bad old days of this place. Stop VR'ing me and I'll answer your posts.

JoeSnow

rovert wrote: »

Joe, your tact is reminding me of the bad old days of this place. Stop VR'ing me and I'll answer your posts.

I have no idea what VR'ing means, however I'm doing nothing out of line so please don't try to blur the lines.

This is a discussion forum. You stated something and I've called you on it. You took exception and I simply asked you to cite a reputable source to your claim to which I'm still waiting.

MitchKoobski

JoeSnow wrote: »

Where did you pick that up exactly, some newzz site from Nigeria? Ridiculous statement which I have never heard before.

rovert wrote: »

Yes the sheer concept of a man with a broken neck being wary about working with someone with rep of being slightly clumsy that he never really worked with or likes is utterly ridiculous. :rolleyes:

JoeSnow wrote: »

Well go on then, it's been over ten years - go find me a SINGLE reputable account recorded or documented in the last ten to back up what you've claimed. Show us where you "picked this up" as you say.

rovert

JoeSnow wrote: »

I have no idea what VR'ing means, however I'm doing nothing out of line so please don't try to blur the lines.

This is a discussion forum. You stated something and I've called you on it. You took exception and I simply asked you to cite a reputable source to your claim to which I'm still waiting.

That's the mentality I am referring to. Poster to poster please tone down the combative nature of your posts. If you want a respectful answer be respectful in return.

JoeSnow

rovert wrote: »

That's the mentality I am referring to. Poster to poster please tone down the combative nature of your posts. If you want a respectful answer be respectful in return.

Someone needs to change that Austin GIF to something out of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy...

Go get your source because it looks like you're hiding behind your nonsense.

rovert

JoeSnow wrote: »

Someone needs to change that Austin GIF to something out of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy...

Go get your source because it looks like you're hiding behind your nonsense.

I stake my rep here on the fact I am not hiding and that I just dont like your tact. Typically this place is a haven from this nonsense.

JoeSnow

rovert wrote: »

I stake my rep here on the fact I am not hiding and that I just dont like your tact. Typically this place is a haven from this nonsense.

You're transparent here mate and it's embarrassing. I've seen your posts on F4W board in the past (not a member any more unfortunately) and you're as rude and as horrible a little poster I've ever come across. And I've just been PM'd a link to your Twitter which again is full of rude barks from behind your keyboard.

Somebody's just called BS on the nonsense you've spouted and you've thrown out your rattle somehow claiming the manner of which I asked you is rude and offensive as a means to hide from the point because you know (and everybody knows) you can't defend it in the plain, concise and simple manner asked of you.

gnfnrhead

Joe, you picked the wrong guy to try and "call out". rovert is one of the most respected posters around here. Your hostile attitude wont make you seem like a tough guy but instead a crybaby who doesnt like someone so is trying to discredit them and failing.

My advice to you would be sit down, take a few deep breaths and re-read your posts. Maybe then you will see how hostile you are being and figure out why you arent getting anywhere.

Bounty Hunter

JoeSnow wrote: »

You're transparent here mate and it's embarrassing. I've seen your posts on F4W board in the past (not a member any more unfortunately) and you're as rude and as horrible a little poster I've ever come across. And I've just been PM'd a link to your Twitter which again is full of rude barks from behind your keyboard.

Somebody's just called BS on the nonsense you've spouted and you've thrown out your rattle somehow claiming the manner of which I asked you is rude and offensive as a means to hide from the point because you know (and everybody knows) you can't defend it in the plain, concise and simple manner asked of you.

As said in the message that was just sent to you - If you or anyone else has an issue with anyones posting style report said posts.

If you have an issue with someone with regards their posting on another board deal with it on that board or not at all (at least leave it off boards). Personal abuse will not be tolerated.

rovert

So you are using my actions on a largely unmoderated trolling board as the basis to attack me on a moderated far more normal one? Ok.

I haven't thrown my rattle at all people here can look at my posts vs. yours and make their mind up you are the one with call outs and bizarre & dated Queer Eye reference. Speaking as a poster I simply don't welcome F4W style combativeness on this forum.

Bounty Hunter

rovert wrote: »

So you are using my actions on a largely unmoderated trolling board as the basis to attack me on a moderated far more normal one? Ok.

I haven't thrown my rattle at all people here can look at my posts vs. yours and make their mind up you are the one with call outs and bizarre & dated Queer Eye reference. Speaking as a poster I simply don't welcome F4W style combativeness on this forum.

I doubt ( ) he will be back for at least a week at which point I hope he does as I urge everyone else to continue to do and discuss the news and rumours of the day and not other posters in here.

to get back on topic I always found it odd that you always hear about Hogan not being willing to put Austin over, surely Stone Cold also refused to lose to Hogan too, right?

GTR63

Am I right in thinking Hogan accused Taker of spiking him in a tombstone once?

jaykhunter

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

to get back on topic I always found it odd that you always hear about Hogan not being willing to put Austin over, surely Stone Cold also refused to lose to Hogan too, right?

My understanding was - Hogan wanting to work with Austin (I think it was at his HoF speech and on some radio shows) but Austin never wanted to work with him, for fears outlined earlier. Also Austin was in WCW up to early '95 so I'd have to imagine he's seen some dirty politiking first-hand from Hogan.

On that point, I know Hogan is reknowned for sabotaging pushes and not putting people over, but as we discussed on this board before (fairly sure it was one of my threads!) Austin didn't put many over either, and he nixxed working with some up & comers (made sure Jarrett didn't go up the card in 98/99, refused to work with Billy Gunn in 99, drop the belt to Hunter in 99, wouldn't job to Hall at X8, or to Lesnar cold in 02) so it's not like he's the easiest to work with either.

GTR63

A Austin vs Hogan thread or is it JoeSnow vs rovert

gerrybbadd

GTR63 wrote: »

Am I right in thinking Hogan accused Taker of spiking him in a tombstone once?

I think you are right here. I recall seeing an interview once where Hogan said he was originally 6 Foot 9 and is now 6'5'' after Taker dropped him on his head.

I think in the same interview, he said Andre was 700 pounds or something ridiculous, when he slammed him.

rossie1977

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I think you are right here. I recall seeing an interview once where Hogan said he was originally 6 Foot 9 and is now 6'5'' after Taker dropped him on his head.

I think in the same interview, he said Andre was 700 pounds or something ridiculous, when he slammed him.

don't forget he broke all his ribs when rockbottomed at mania 18 and being the man he was he said "again brother"

Angron

I'm getting the feeling that Hogan is a bit of a fibber.

Handsome Bob

Charisteas wrote: »

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Charisteas wrote: »

It's a crying shame that match never happened. Obv neither guy was willing to lose the match, they could have somehow booked a draw though.

A draw is an abomination in pro wrestling, no-one benefits from it, it's meaningless.

Neither Austin nor Hogan needed to benefit from the match, both guys were at the end of their in-ring careers, it wouldn't have been about gain or loss.

If anything, the fans would have benefited from seeing a once-in-a-lifetime match and nobody would have really cared who won or lost. But if neither guy was willing to lose, then a draw would have been better than no match at all.

Maybe they could shake hands at the end too.

CastorTroy

Denny M wrote: »

I'm getting the feeling that Hogan is a bit of a fibber.

I heard he's a giant chicken!

Charlie Haughy

jaykhunter

jaykhunter wrote: »

My understanding was - Hogan wanting to work with Austin (I think it was at his HoF speech and on some radio shows) but Austin never wanted to work with him, for fears outlined earlier. Also Austin was in WCW up to early '95 so I'd have to imagine he's seen some dirty politiking first-hand from Hogan.

Lets be honest, The only people who know what happened here are Hogan Austin and some Staff in the WWE, we can only speculate. Shame it didnt happen though .

Handsome Bob

jaykhunter wrote: »

Lesnar cold in 02

If I recollect correctly, didn't they want Austin to lose cleanly to Lesnar on his debut? I'm pretty sure Austin said he was fine with losing to Brock as long as it was given a proper build up.

As for Jarrett and Mr. Ass, no way could I believe in them going over Austin in the period you mentioned. I don't think it'd be comparable to say, Kane/RVD/Booker not going over HHH in 02/03.

And as for Hall, I had no idea Austin was meant to job to him, but since Hall didn't last very long, I think Steve may be justified in that situation.

Charisteas

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I always found it odd that you always hear about Hogan not being willing to put Austin over, surely Stone Cold also refused to lose to Hogan too, right?

Personal opinion here but I'd say Hogan would have been a lot more willing to lose the match than Austin was.

There are only a very select handful of guys that Austin would be willing to lose to at a Wrestlemania; Bret Hart and Rock he did lose to, and the only other two are probably Shawn Michaels and Undertaker.

Stereomaniac

The thing about his loss to Bret Hart, is that even if Bret hadn't started doing his heelish stuff after the bell, it still would've made Steve Austin look stronger. I think if he just won the match, he might not have risen as quickly as a babyface in the immediate aftermath.

mooonpie

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I think you are right here. I recall seeing an interview once where Hogan said he was originally 6 Foot 9 and is now 6'5'' after Taker dropped him on his head.

I think in the same interview, he said Andre was 700 pounds or something ridiculous, when he slammed him.

That 700 pound Andre bit reminds me of 'The Voice vs Hulk Hogan', except he blames the Leg Drop for his shrinking in that interview.

Edit - Apologies if off topic

On Andre:

Andre had came off a huge back surgery and he was in a lot of pain. And we went through the airport and he got on the scales and you said over 600 pounds, he was actually closer to 7. He was around 685, 690 on the cargo scales at North West. He'd had the back surgery, gained a lot of weight and he came for that one match [goes on to talk about WM3]

On his height:

Right when I first started wrestling and I started working out with Hiro Matsuda, she [Hogan's mother] measured me on the wall barefooted and I was 6 foot 7.
... Right before my dad passed away [Dec 2001] I was having all kind of problems with my back and I was walking sideways and my mom says 'come over here, we want to measure you', and I was 6 foot 4.
And it was 30 years of jumping up and landing on my butt with that leg drop and I had had a ton of problems and so now after the knee replacement and the hip replacement and i just had my 8th back surgery where they straightened me up. I'm a little over 6 foot 5 now, so I got back about an inch and a half.
But i was 6 [foot] 7 and because of the 30 years of wrestling of jumping up and landing on my butt every single night, and you're wrestling 300 days a year, I pretty much crushed and bent my spine.
You learn so many things, we had a talk off camera earlier that you learn, you understand how much you don't know about this business the longer you're in it
And if i would've known what i know now I would've used the sleeper and I would've never taken a bump for a finish

Fenian Army

Hogan knows how to lose and still steal the show... vs Ultimate Warrior and the Rock for example.

I've never liked Austin, on a personal level I think he is a dirtbag and his character is very very stale now. At the time I much preferred Goldberg

Muff_Daddy

Denny M wrote: »

I'm getting the feeling that Hogan is a bit of a fibber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6mf9ijX8s