Senator John Crown calls for ban on tobacco products by 2025

RUCKING FETARD

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0627/senator-calls-for-ban-on-tobacco-products-by-2025.html

The senator, who is also a consultant oncologist, said the measures should be adopted at a European level.
He said placing a ban on the manufacturing and sale of cigarettes should be a long-term goal.


Senator Crown said: "It will give the companies time to re-tool the machines to make something else.
"This is a time when the world is short of food. Imagine all that agricultural land being used to produce cancer causing tobacco instead of being used to grow food.


"It will allow the pension funds to reinvest and it will give the addicts due notice, if you're still alive in ten to 15 years, you won't be able to get cigarettes legally."


Senator Crown, along with Jillian van Turnhout and Mark Daly, advocated a Bill that will see a ban on smoking in cars in Ireland when children are in the vehicle. The Bill was approved by the Cabinet yesterday.

Good, could even shorten it to 2020.

With it being a Tax staple though, will it ever happen?

Pushtrak

If they were to do this, they'd make up the loss of tax in other stuff. Oxygen tax anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8eoEygHyho

Posted it in the other thread, but it bears repeating. Its the onion, but reality is being just as crazy. Or, people are advocating for it, I should say.

scudzilla

This guy is talking through his hoop, most non smokers will be jumping around with glee at this news, without realizing that the income tax rate will probably go up to 35/40% to cover the loss of tax from smoking.

Pedant

Look at what happened during the Prohibition era in the US. This will only fuel criminality and gangland violence.

Mickey H

He can f*ck right off, the sandal wearing hippie twat.

/Rolls up a smooth Old Holborn...

JupiterKid

At least he's laid bare the aim of the health fascists - to criminalise smoking and smokers.

Does anyone else see the irony in this? We replace religious moral intolerance with "healthy living" intolerance...

The Radiator

Nah, they should just tax the hell out of it even more. Be a bit silly banning when they could just make it a super luxury product and make a load o' money.
People should be able to choose for themselves whether they smoke or not

My name is URL

I'm a smoker and I'd love to see them made illegal. It will reduce the number of deaths caused by the habit. Of course some people will buy them illegally, but the numbers of people taking smoking up in the first place would be greatly reduced, and the onus would be on smokers to at least try harder to quit.

I really hate the pussyfooting that goes on in relation to tobacco. Nobody denies that it's a lethal addiction but yet far more innocuous things are regularly banned.

Pushtrak

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm a smoker and I'd love to see them made illegal. It will reduce the number of deaths caused by the habit. Of course some people will buy them illegally, but the numbers of people taking smoking up in the first place would be greatly reduced, and the onus would be on smokers to at least try harder to quit.

And then... http://arabia.msn.com/business/press/press/2012/april/cigarette_market_egypt/ministry-health-confirms.aspx

Dr. Latif explained that, “illegal cigarettes are often manufactured and stored in highly polluted and infested areas. Based on other independent researches indicated that illicit cigarettes contain metals and toxic substances that are gravely harmful to the consumer’s health.”

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2012/04/27/children-sold-illegal-cigarettes-at-20p-a-pop-by-unscrupulous-midland-corner-shops-claims-former-scotland-yard-detective-97319-30848927/

Children sold illegal cigarettes at 20p a pop by unscrupulous Midland corner shops, claims former Scotland Yard detective

So, it would just expand the drug war. Not exactly doing anything for the greater good, IMO. It would be giving up on the money that was being made on tax, creating a vacuum in which criminal enterprise can make money... Not really seeing the gains.

How long til the "we all have to pay for your healthcare" argument comes along. **** it, I don't want anyone else paying for my healthcare if it impinges on my right to give myself cancer.

DEFTLEFTHAND

You won't around in 13 years Senator Crown, you and the rest of your talking shop will be abolished.

Scioch

Good to see someone is trying to make progress in relation to this. The tax should be moved onto unhealthy foods. Much wider base to draw from so wouldnt affect prices too much.

admiralofthefleet

he can shove it up his bollox

/lights benson

humbert

If only stupid ideas caused cancer there'd be fewer people like him.

unkel

I'm no believer in making things illegal. I'm no believer that making smokes even more expensive than they are now would help in people smoking less or giving them up. That ain't gonna work.

The only thing that will work is for culture to change into making smoking less socially acceptable and less cool for younger people to start doing. This has been going on for a good few years now and it is working. Slowly.

Pushtrak

LordSmeg wrote: »

Good to see someone is trying to make progress in relation to this. The tax should be moved onto unhealthy foods. Much wider base to draw from so wouldnt affect prices too much.

This isn't a tax. It's a ban.

Scioch

Pushtrak wrote: »

This isn't a tax. It's a ban.

I know, the loss of tax which will result from the ban is what I'm talking about.

My name is URL

Pushtrak wrote: »

And then... http://arabia.msn.com/business/press/press/2012/april/cigarette_market_egypt/ministry-health-confirms.aspx

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2012/04/27/children-sold-illegal-cigarettes-at-20p-a-pop-by-unscrupulous-midland-corner-shops-claims-former-scotland-yard-detective-97319-30848927/

So, it would just expand the drug war. Not exactly doing anything for the greater good, IMO. It would be giving up on the money that was being made on tax, creating a vacuum in which criminal enterprise can make money... Not really seeing the gains.

If it was done over night then of course many problems would arise. I meant that it should be progressively outlawed, with proper help for smokers along the way, and carried out on a set timescale & with an encompassing legal framework to deal with any fallout. You could decriminalize possession while still targeting criminal groups.

The ultimate goal being that people are left knowing that taking up the habit in the first place has no measurable benefits whatsoever. It's not a social or party drug, the only people that see any real upsides to using it are those already addicted.

Pushtrak

LordSmeg wrote: »

I know, the loss of tax which will result from the ban is what I'm talking about.

Oh, right, I get you now. You'd probably have to tax the unhealthy food 300% for that plan to work though. So, it wouldn't work.

JupiterKid

If it becomes illegal to smoke or buy tobacco products perhaps we can enact the death penalty for selling cigarettes.

Really great idea.

Scioch

Pushtrak wrote: »

Oh, right, I get you now. You'd probably have to tax the unhealthy food 300% for that plan to work though. So, it wouldn't work.

I dunno there is an awful lot of money being handed out for unhealthy foods. And much more people eat junk than smoke so you'd be taxing a much larger group over a huge number of products. Might not make up the entire shortfall but it would gather a sizable chunk if not.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Wouldn't a stupid ban like this also have a negative impact on the tourist industry. Smoking is as prevalent as ever on the continent, these people aren't going to holiday here anymore.

Jester252

Well if smoking banned then what becomes the goverment new bitch?

Pushtrak

My name is URL wrote: »

If it was done over night then of course many problems would arise. I meant that it should be progressively outlawed, with proper help for smokers along the way, and carried out on a set timescale & with an encompassing legal framework to deal with any fallout. You could decriminalize possession while still targeting criminal groups.

The ultimate goal being that people are left knowing that taking up the habit in the first place has no measurable benefits whatsoever. It's not a social or party drug, the only people that see any real upsides to using it are those already addicted.

I'm really curious how people would react if you replaced this thread with alcohol and drinkers.

JupiterKid wrote: »

If it becomes illegal to smoke or buy tobacco products perhaps we can enact the death penalty for selling cigarettes.

Really great idea.

No, I'm sure people would be happy with heavy fines as some attempt to make up for the loss of money from smokers no longer paying tax*.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Wouldn't a stupid ban like this also have a negative impact on the tourist industry. Smoking is as prevalent as ever on the continent, these people aren't going to holiday here anymore.

Well, this trend of banning smoking is fairly large scale in global terms. Not entirely global, but it gets around, that's for sure. So, if it were to be in play here, it'd likely end up in play elsewhere as well.


*Boards needs a shake-head smiley. Roll eyes wouldn't have been appropriate there.

Sindri

I'll just grow tobacco myself then. Maybe form an Amateur Tobacco Smoking and Cultivating Club where for a membership fee you get some organization merchandise which may include tobacco to "sample". The membership fee would be weekly of course. Then I can market it to the kiddies.

The Radiator

Sindri wrote: »

I'll just grow tobacco myself then. Maybe form an Amateur Tobacco Smoking and Cultivating Club where for a membership fee you get some organization merchandise which may include tobacco to "sample". The membership fee would be weekly of course. Then I can market it to the kiddies.

But that's illegal, I'm telling

StupidLikeAFox

Completely agree with his motives in that smoking should be discouraged and stamped out. But when has telling people they can't do something actually resulted in them not doing it?

The Radiator

ColHol wrote: »

Completely agree with his motives in that smoking should be discouraged and stamped out. But when has telling people they can't do something actually resulted in them not doing it?

Since never

MaxSteele

Although I'm of the belief that prohibition doesn't work and aside from the criminality and black market that would take over tobacco ..... it would be a great long term goal if accomplished.

I seriously can't understand people who smoke or support it's existence (basically the majority of my mates, father etc etc :rolleyes:). Nearly everyone I know complains about addiction to it, tries giving up but will probably lambast the idea of being rid of it.

I'd almost rather see people on recreational drugs like Cannabis or cocaine instead increasing their smoke related disease chances of cancer, bronchitis or a tumor the size of a new born baby in their larynx.

Pushtrak

MaxSteele wrote: »

I seriously can't understand people who smoke or support it's existence (basically the majority of my mates, father etc etc :rolleyes:).

Would there be the same level of bafflement be raised if it were alcohol that was under discussion? Not directed at just you.

Stiffler2

meh

El Siglo

I can see this working well alright... An absolutely retarded idea.

Nothingbetter2d

Pedant wrote: »

Look at what happened during the Prohibition era in the US. This will only fuel criminality and gangland violence.

exactly also banning dope or other narcotics didnt work so why would banning ciggies work

Corkfeen

If it would be effective, I'd happily support but as history had proven. Banning drugs does not work and would create far greater risks such as funding crime etc.... Also feck it, it's up to each person what they want to do to their bodies...

Fishooks12

i actually think it's a good idea. Smoking weed and drinking can be in someway enjoyable when done in moderation

But smoking is pretty joyless until you're hooked enough to really get a hit from it

mconigol

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm a smoker and I'd love to see them made illegal. It will reduce the number of deaths caused by the habit. Of course some people will buy them illegally, but the numbers of people taking smoking up in the first place would be greatly reduced, and the onus would be on smokers to at least try harder to quit.

I really hate the pussyfooting that goes on in relation to tobacco. Nobody denies that it's a lethal addiction but yet far more innocuous things are regularly banned.

Is tobacco the real problem however or the chemicals used to make tobacco products?

Not saying tobacco isn't a health issue but like all things I don't see an issue with moderate use. Painkillers can be addictive if incorrectly used but that doesn't mean we need to ban them.

I don't agree with banning things. That may have worked to limited success in the past but with the way the world is developing today and the ease of access to information etc. bans are easy to circumvent.

ejmaztec

The Untouchables, busting into people's houses and smashing up the Rizla rolling-machines.

rubadub

"It will give the companies time to re-tool the machines to make something else.

give the addicts due notice, if you're still alive in ten to 15 years, you won't be able to get cigarettes legally."

Dunno why they give these companies years to retool, and years of notice for users. Drugs like mdma & mushrooms were banned with little or no warning. Why no concern for their users and manufacturers/growers? Oh right because the lawmakers wee mammys & the local garda & priest didn't abuse those 'bad' drugs. They abused drugs which are considered by the medical community to be far more dangerous.

Research published in the medical journal The Lancet rates the most dangerous drugs (starting with the worst) as follows:
1. Heroin
2. Cocaine
3. Barbiturates
4. Street methadone
5. Alcohol
6. Ketamine
7. Benzodiazepines
8. Amphetamine
9. Tobacco
10. Buprenorphine
11. Cannabis
12. Solvents
13. 4-MTA
14. LSD
15. Methylphenidate
16. Anabolic steroids
17. GHB
18. Ecstasy
19. Alkyl nitrates
20. Khat

c_man

Ex smoker here, what a load of balls.

Stiffler2

rubadub wrote: »

Dunno why they give these companies years to retool, and years of notice for users. Drugs like mdma & mushrooms were banned with little or no warning. Why no concern for their users and manufacturers/growers? Oh right because the lawmakers wee mammys & the local garda & priest didn't abuse those 'bad' drugs. They abused drugs which are considered by the medical community to be far more dangerous.

1. Heroin
2. Cocaine
3. Barbiturates
4. Street methadone
5. Alcohol
6. Ketamine
7. Benzodiazepines
8. Amphetamine
9. Tobacco
10. Buprenorphine
11. Cannabis
12. Solvents
13. 4-MTA
14. LSD
15. Methylphenidate
16. Anabolic steroids
17. GHB
18. Ecstasy
19. Alkyl nitrates
20. Khat

Fixed your List :

1. Crack Cocaine
2. Crystal Meth
3. Heroin
4. Cocaine
5. Barbiturates
6. Street methadone
7. Solvents
8. Alcohol
9. Ketamine
10. Benzodiazepines
11. Amphetamine
12. Tobacco
13. Buprenorphine
14. 4-MTA
15. LSD
16. Methylphenidate
17. Anabolic steroids
18. GHB
19. Alkyl nitrates
20. Khat
21. Ecstasy
22. Cannabis

XTC is actually one of the safest illegal drugs out there, very few deaths caused by XTC
It was originally designed by an old couple in their home for weight loss, I still have the old picture of them which is cool as they are old ass and have a lab in their kitchen.

I'll see if I can dig it out.

marcbrophy

Never heard of him!
Is this mook tryna make a name for himself?

shopaholic01

Will he ban all other carcinogens?

Alcohol, unhealthy foods, exposure to UV light, pollutants - fossil fuels etc, nuclear energy - the list is endless.

Fact is most things are responsible for the production of free radicals in our cells.

Cigarettes are as avoidable as alcohol and unhealthy foods, it doesn't stop most of us overusing at least one of them.

mongdesade

Fúck Senator John Crown :mad:

davet82

i'd like to see nicotine made illegal and still sell cigs, or at least try reduce the amount of nicotine in cigs over a few years to wean the nation off them.

i smoke btw

Carter P Fly

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Fixed your List :

1. Crack Cocaine
2. Crystal Meth
3. Heroin
4. Cocaine
5. Barbiturates
6. Street methadone
7. Solvents
8. Alcohol
9. Ketamine
10. Benzodiazepines
11. Amphetamine
12. Tobacco
13. Buprenorphine
14. 4-MTA
15. LSD
16. Methylphenidate
17. Anabolic steroids
18. GHB
19. Alkyl nitrates
20. Khat
21. Ecstasy
22. Cannabis

XTC is actually one of the safest illegal drugs out there, very few deaths caused by XTC
It was originally designed by an old couple in their home for weight loss, I still have the old picture of them which is cool as they are old ass and have a lab in their kitchen.

I'll see if I can dig it out.

LSD is not a dangerous Drug.

Stiffler2

Carter P Fly wrote: »

LSD is not a dangerous Drug.

agreed, methadone can be very bad though, the methadone that the legal high shops sold, a few ppl ended up in the mental hospital as a result of methadone.

rubadub

rubadub wrote: »

Dunno why they give these companies years to retool, and years of notice for users. Drugs like mdma & mushrooms were banned with little or no warning. Why no concern for their users and manufacturers/growers?

Because at the time there weren't massive industries surrounding their production, sale etc. He explains it pretty well. Just backs-up the notion that money is the motivation though.

Pushtrak

Fishooks12 wrote: »

i actually think it's a good idea. Smoking weed and drinking can be in someway enjoyable when done in moderation

Ok, so you are a weed advocate. Lots of things I can bring to the table seeing as you mentioned that. Well, ok, first of all, generally people who talk about how it would be wise to legalize weed would point to cigarettes and alcohol with a "Look, its taxed and regulated, do that with weed." You seem to take a dim view to this. Perhaps it is because you find it easy to obtain weed even though it is illegal? Well, assuming that, do you suppose that somehow, with making cigarettes illegal they'd be hard to obtain?

Please, tell me what good making cigs illegal will do. I'm really curious.

Odysseus

Looks like someone felt they needed a bit of publicity, sad fcuk. Such a ban will happen about the same time as heroin is made freely available.

ressem

Odysseus wrote: »

Looks like someone felt they needed a bit of publicity, sad fcuk. Such a ban will happen about the same time as heroin is made freely available.

If he's spent his working life as a Professor of Oncology (Cancer Treatment) and consultant doctor in St Vincent's, and he puts in the time as a senator while donating the senator's pay to cancer research then its fair to say that he just has really strong views on the subject.

shopaholic01 wrote:

Will he ban all other carcinogens?

If he has to deal with the patients at the end of their lives as a doctor, then he probably would push for them to be moderated as any decent GP should give a bollicking to a patient that's worsening their life simply out of old habits or laziness.

Factories and jobs did leave Ireland for eastern europe (with a quiet legacy of cancer clusters) when we started to introduce air monitoring.

He's a senator. He can't ban anything. But he can raise the discussion.
E.g. would the end result be good or bad if adults were limited (by making purchasing into a timeconsuming PITA) to 10 cigs a day.

snubbleste

Odysseus wrote: »

Looks like someone felt they needed a bit of publicity, sad fcuk. Such a ban will happen about the same time as heroin is made freely available.

He's an oncolgist who sees first hand the lethal consequences of this over the counter product. He's also a former smoker himself. He's been harping on about it for years.

How is it I can't see what ingredients are in a pack of cigarettes?