credit union case ?

cj maxx

hi all. i fell into arrears after i became unemployed . in arrears for 3 mths and had contact with cu on the phone . they told me arrangements on making provisions .ie,reduced payments, could be made .
i spoke honestly with them and told them i would look for a years deferrment and they suggested i could cover the interest with my shares . cool i thought till i got a letter 7 days later saying that unless i repaid the loan in full in 14 days they would sue me
i have had more contact since and the threat of legal action has reduced if i ''co-operate'' with them ( which i thought i was)
now i know what they want .
they want me to sign up for a reduced payment so they can look like they are recovering some 'bad debt'. they wont accept that i cant under take to promise any payment and they wont transfer my shares to reduce my interest
at this stage i just want to put my shares off my loan(3500 shares , 8000 loan) and repay interest only for a while. if i end up in court will this be the likely outcome anyway ??
im sorry if this is long and muddled but i cant see why they would put me in a position where my only option is to break another loan agreement.
how do the courts look on such cases??

dazza21ie

It is always adviseable to try and come to some sort of arrangement as this would avoid the cost of going to court.

If this does not happen the Credit Union will go to Court to seek a court order for the full amount owed together with costs and interest. They then try and enforce this order (easier said than done in the current climate). And quite usually the credit union will be back in Court again looking for an installment order i.e. so much every week or month towards the amount outstanding. A judge will consider your means and make an order appropriate to same. I have seen cases where judges have refused to make any order as there is little or no means but in most cases judges like to see some sort of order being made no matter how minimal. I have seen where offers have been made of alternative repayments which have been refused only to get to court and the judge making an order for a much lesser amount.

It can take a year plus in some cases between the initial threat of legal action and being back in court looking for an installment order (might be other ways of enforcing against other people). While it might be tempting to ignore the problem for this period of time one should remember that legal costs and interest are being added to the amount outstanding.

cj maxx

thanks for your reply dazza
exactly my my point is that i cant promise a set amount per week/mth as i dont have the income . they suggested transferring shares to cover the interest on the phone but now they seem set against it. im trying to resolve this but the crux is they want me to leave my shares alone and pay interest which i simply cant do . i can and will transfer my shares (savings) to reduce the debt and interest and i can cover the interest for 4 years on my shares !! i cant see a judgement that would serve them any better !

lennyloulou

WOW! At last i have encountered someone who has a similar situation as myself. I pity your situation.
I have 25,000e of a loan...an ill advised loan took out to help my sick/dying/funeral costs of one parent and another who was sick and still is. Also had to make changes to structure of rooms. I was young and naiive when i got this loan. 22yrs and i had 1500e in shares.
I also have a mortgae which i paid but I struggle with my CU loan repayments. I am not complaining - yes! i did take the money and spend it- Yes I know it has to be paid back.
However in the last 2 yr I have found it so hard to make the payments almost 400e a month
I fell into 4months arrears- in the moddle of this I met them to discuss lowering the repayments ( the loan is at 9% interest) , i gave an account of myself, produced bank statements and evidence of costs. I drive a long way to work and my petrol bill is Huge...I find it so hard to make ends meat with car/kids/food...the usual- i dont want to wreck anyones head .
After this meeting... i never got a letter/call.... I presumed they would notify me. after they thought about it. i continued to struggle. Then I got the same letter as you. I was so upset.
I will never forget it. i rang them and asked how was I to repay the full amount as stated? i offered 280euro per month, they would not accept this. They piled on the interest/arrears... They thought as I was a teacher in regular wages that I could pay this. This is what they said. They also offered me ThREE TIMES on the phone a TOP UP ON THIS LOAN!!!! I kid you not...
WOW! If I was still that naiive young person.....quick money etc!!
I told them that I would never ever deal with them again after this loan is repaid.
They are frightening to deal with..... they will enforce the law....I rang MABS- they told me the credit unions ar eowrse than the banks to dela with. My advice ring MABS!!! They were great.

MagicSean

i never understand the credit unions keeping shares as collateral when they are worth less than the loan. It doesn't make sense.

BattleCorp

Am I reading your post correctly. The Credit Union gave you a €25,000 loan when you only had €1,500 in shares?

That is pure mental.

Sorry I've no legal advice to give you but I'm in total amazement at the Credit Union being so lax with their lending procedures. In my local Credit Union the max that they will give you is between three and five times your amount of shares.

cj maxx

dazza21ie wrote: »

It is always adviseable to try and come to some sort of arrangement as this would avoid the cost of going to court.

If this does not happen the Credit Union will go to Court to seek a court order for the full amount owed together with costs and interest. They then try and enforce this order (easier said than done in the current climate). And quite usually the credit union will be back in Court again looking for an installment order i.e. so much every week or month towards the amount outstanding. A judge will consider your means and make an order appropriate to same. I have seen cases where judges have refused to make any order as there is little or no means but in most cases judges like to see some sort of order being made no matter how minimal. I have seen where offers have been made of alternative repayments which have been refused only to get to court and the judge making an order for a much lesser amount.

It can take a year plus in some cases between the initial threat of legal action and being back in court looking for an installment order (might be other ways of enforcing against other people). While it might be tempting to ignore the problem for this period of time one should remember that legal costs and interest are being added to the amount outstanding.

QUOTE=dazza21ie;79443158]It is always adviseable to try and come to some sort of arrangement as this would avoid the cost of going to court.

If this does not happen the Credit Union will go to Court to seek a court order for the full amount owed together with costs and interest. They then try and enforce this order (easier said than done in the current climate). And quite usually the credit union will be back in Court again looking for an installment order i.e. so much every week or month towards the amount outstanding. A judge will consider your means and make an order appropriate to same. I have seen cases where judges have refused to make any order as there is little or no means but in most cases judges like to see some sort of order being made no matter how minimal. I have seen where offers have been made of alternative repayments which have been refused only to get to court and the judge making an order for a much lesser amount.

---

so if i make a wriiten proposal to put my 3500e shares against my 8000e loan= 1 years repayments in terms of the original loan =4500e outstanding
for which i set up a direct debit to cover interest and put whatever i can off the principal which should be acceptable to a judge as im actually repaying ahead of schedule , do i get hit with costs etc against me even if the judge signs off on my proposal or perhaps even a lesser order in a court case ???
in my conversations with credit control ( and from encomics class at school !) it is apparent that my 3500e shares and 8000e loan represents much more than that on a balance sheet (every 1000e shares = 1000e+3000e in profit making loans =4000e in capital) and they dont want a debt resolution , merely to maintain an inflated balance sheet
its my credit union !!!! ha ha
imelda may is full of sh***e, eh ?

lennyloulou

yes i would try that ..... looks good on paper.
make sure you go to seek advice from MABS as I think in court MABS advice has good standing....their website is worth a look at anyhow.
Yes to an earlier question my loan is 25,000e @ 9% and I have 1500e in shares. Cfrazy I know! Scared of them ! Horrible to deal with. So much for being community based/friendly and easy to deal with.

the credit unions have destroyed many people with easy loans - I know so so many (alot teachers who are considered on a good wage in society but have had a 9-12% wage cut in the last few budgets) struggling with their loans (cars/kids college/rising health insurance policies/car loans/child care costs which are HUGE)and on top of this they have their mortgage also etc...

I will never ever go near a credit union after this!

paulgalway

Had the totally opposite experience with CU.

Had a loan of less than €10K, made redundant, fell behind with payments. Got a phone call to go and talk to them.

They suggested I take a top-up loan to clear the over due amount. They also asked what I could pay per week. I offered €30 and they were happy with that.

This last few wks I fell behind again. Guy rang and said he should be sending a letter to me but didn't want to as it might affect future chances of getting a loan, so rang instead. Suggetsted I just pay €10 extra in the week to show that I was making an effort to get back on track.

I have dealt with different staff and they could not be more helpful and understanding.

My advice would be to go and talk with them. But do decide what you can afford to pay and offer that as a compromise.

Important thing to remember is that they are there to help you, do everything possible to keep them on your side.

cj maxx

dont get me wrong , they say they want to help etc and they are very facilating at accepting a reduced payment. but it seems they only want to fudge it off and protect their income .
by taking my shares off the loan i would reduce significantly the interest , thus leaving more ability to pay off the capital.
it seems that the interest is their profit and they want to protect that, never mind what would seem to be the best way of me paying off my debt in full in the most effecient manner .
just pay the interest blah blah>>>
just pay their comission (pound of flesh) before you get debt free is what it seems like .just like any loan broker ,

Mouldy Mary

cjmc wrote: »

dont get me wrong , they say they want to help etc and they are very facilating at accepting a reduced payment. but it seems they only want to fudge it off and protect their income .
by taking my shares off the loan i would reduce significantly the interest , thus leaving more ability to pay off the capital.
it seems that the interest is their profit and they want to protect that, never mind what would seem to be the best way of me paying off my debt in full in the most effecient manner .
just pay the interest blah blah>>>
just pay their comission (pound of flesh) before you get debt free is what it seems like .just like any loan broker ,

You are being unfair to the credit union. They lent you money when no one else would. it was money which belonged to the other members. Credit Unions have to maintain a ratio of savings to loans. Its is a legal requirement. If they allowed members credit their shares against loans they would be in trouble. You are being very selfish in borrowing on terms and then trying to get out of it at the expense of other members. when I retired I put money from my gratuity into credit union shares so that it might be available to help somebody. The credit union had helped me a lot over the years.

cj maxx

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

You are being unfair to the credit union. They lent you money when no one else would. it was money which belonged to the other members. Credit Unions have to maintain a ratio of savings to loans. Its is a legal requirement. If they allowed members credit their shares against loans they would be in trouble. You are being very selfish in borrowing on terms and then trying to get out of it at the expense of other members. when I retired I put money from my gratuity into credit union shares so that it might be available to help somebody. The credit union had helped me a lot over the years.

with all due respect to mouldy and nuac , NO:mad: , they did not lend me money when no-one else would.!
i had a steady job, reasonable income and more to the point have been a credit union member for 20 years , steadlily putting savings in and repaying small loans on time and schedule. i wasnt a bad risk
i know there is a ratio of shares/loan. but im damn sure my shares (at half my loan) FAR exceed the minimum requirements.
they have been fu?kin so ignorant and bullying to tell me one thing in person and then refuse to confirm it in writing and deny they said it, ignore my repeated for information and meetings and at same time as refusing to see what can be done engaging legal letters to frighten the **** out of me:mad:
now , they seem intent on legal proceedings,
so what happens now , am i told to turn up in court or what?...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

lennyloulou

i wondered what had become of your situation... im just about managing to meet my repayments but the amount never seems to be decreasing... fcuking interest.
i was one day late in getting into pay them. ( my Mum heart attack in hopsital, ok now thank god).. anyhow I got a letter out in the post the following day.. horrible as per usual.
they are daunting and scary to deal with.
on the back of my letter is a scrawled hand written note with details of a persons account in arrears. i kid you not. Scared the life out of me until I realised some lazy worker/cashier scribbled personal details of some clients account on the back of my letter.
professional, eh?
my advice to you...go to court represent yourself, have your facts/budget ready.
my friend who works in the legal/clerical system told me courts are giving clients fair hearings and minimum repyment structures are the norm now in order to help people get back on their feet.

cj maxx

well lenny, after numerous requests by letter to meet the relevant people i rang seeking a meeting with the manager as things were goin to court .
i met with a senior credit control person instead.
in my case they had offered a reduced payment , abeit one i couldnt afford every month/week.
it was one i could struggle to meet until i need tyres, car tax, a bigger than usual bill.anything and i would be fu*ked for a couple of months and i actually didnt want to sign up to anything i couldnt honour.
but long and short of it they ''advised''(under threat of legal action) to take the reduced payment option and when it comes time that i cant pay to tell them why and they will be understanding
they could have told me months ago that this new agreement was just ****e and avoided me stressing to the point where i thought of NOTHING else except how i pay it. i mean that. it was costantly causing me headaches and on my mind to the point of distraction .
now i just gonna go ''yeah i'll pay that surely'' and when i cant pay i'll give them photocopies of my bills to prove it.
my mistake was trying to agree a practical agreement.they wouldnt have been down money , just not making it and as they told me today regarding payments ,'' the credit union has to make a profit too!''
they strung me along for months pretending to engage with me then ignoring me while playing the game till it came to point that i couldnt say no.
kickin the can down the road :mad:

cj maxx

lennyloulou wrote: »

i wondered what had become of your situation... im just about managing to meet my repayments but the amount never seems to be decreasing... fcuking interest.
i was one day late in getting into pay them. ( my Mum heart attack in hopsital, ok now thank god).. anyhow I got a letter out in the post the following day.. horrible as per usual.
they are daunting and scary to deal with.
on the back of my letter is a scrawled hand written note with details of a persons account in arrears. i kid you not. Scared the life out of me until I realised some lazy worker/cashier scribbled personal details of some clients account on the back of my letter.
professional, eh?
my advice to you...go to court represent yourself, have your facts/budget ready.
my friend who works in the legal/clerical system told me courts are giving clients fair hearings and minimum repyment structures are the norm now in order to help people get back on their feet.

going on what ive learned tis better to pay a steady amount even if it isnt the full repayment. an advice center told me (belatedly:o) i should have reguarly paid what i could afford( not what the cu wanted or said i could afford ) as ,in court as you say ,a judge would look kindly on your efforts

wmpdd3

I had months of war with the credit union too, similar situation as above.

I approched them asking for a re structure, they refused as I wasnt in arrears, so I paid what I had worked out I could afford with MABS' help. It was 33% of my repayments. I had 1.75 years left, the new repayment would have meant my loan would have been paid off within 4.5 years.

The credit union sent me horrible letters, phone calls etc. I stood my ground.

When they said would charge me €10 each for the 2 threatening letters per month they were entitled to sent me, I flipped and wrote to them offering the new amount less €20 for the letters.

Finally I had to have a meeting with them, 3 weeks after I had my second baby.
I had all my letters, dates, times, people's names etc. I had proof of paying the new amount on the same day every month, for 9 months.

They finally agreed on the new amount as I asked them did they really think a judge would raise the repayment?

I too had a loan of 25 times my shares at 22 yrs of age. Every time I asked to take out my shares I was offered a loan that would be in my hand in 15 mins.

fasttalkerchat

From dealing with them before, their staff in branches are very poorly trained and are not from a banking/financial services background. I suggest you escalate the matter and ask to make an agreement like the deferment you mentioned in the OP.
Don't feel like you have to take the best the branch staff will offer.

Milk & Honey

cjmc wrote: »

going on what ive learned tis better to pay a steady amount even if it isnt the full repayment. an advice center told me (belatedly:o) i should have reguarly paid what i could afford( not what the cu wanted or said i could afford ) as ,in court as you say ,a judge would look kindly on your efforts

If you admit to owing the money and having been in breach of the loan conditions the judge will give judgement against you. The only relevance, in court) to the lower payments will arise at the enforcement stage ( months later) when the CU seeks an instalment order.

The advantage to paying some money back is that the credit unions only go to court for the very worst cases where no money is being paid back. If something is coming in they will not want to incur the costs of litigation just so they end up with an order for payment of the very same sum of money.

cj maxx

wmpp?:o, you handled them like i should have.
my mistake was not paying what i could afford on a regular basis. i was waiting for them to agree to a figure first and they dragged it on till i looked really bad . i didnt expect to have my meeting so i didnt have the letters /responses with me .
i totally agree that their staff are not properly equiped to be dealing with accounts in trouble.the dept staff dont have the authority to make an agreement as it has to go to the committee . the committee makes their decision in seclusion and its impossible to meet with them . this leads to lack of communication as your removed from the actual decision makers while the staff cant /won do anything other than just send it to solicitors.
this structure cant work .

wmpdd3

I found that too, after every letter I sent I got a reply saying it would be put to the committee etc. That did drag things along, but from going to the AGMs you get an idea of what some defaulters have done. Esp the ones who emigrated and left their debts to their guarantor, ie parents.

Tiradon

As well as protecting their future income (i.e. interest), another reason why they might be reluctant to allow you offset your shares against your loan is that it could effect their financial metrics. Lending institutions use many financial metrics to assess their financial strength, including comparing their capital base to their total loan book. In short, €8,000 loan to €3,500 capital is much stronger than €4,500 loan to no capital, plus the potential earnings is also greater on the higher loan amount. Unfortunately, as with most lending institutions these days, the "personal" element appears to no longer exist and decisions are being made based on ratios and statistics. I would definitely suggest meeting with MABS, putting together a realistic budget on what you can afford (even a very small amount per weel/month) and approach the CU with that information. At least then, if it does go further, you will have been seen to have made a concerted effort to work with the CU and that can only go in your favour. Best of luck.

cj maxx

Lending institutions use many financial metrics to assess their financial strength, including comparing their capital base to their total loan book. In short, €8,000 loan to €3,500 capital is much stronger than €4,500 loan

yes indeed they do:mad:
i went to MABS but was advised by them that the irish legue of cu's arent 'signed up' with them and they dont hold much sway but the citizen advice were belatedly(my bad) of some help. i'll go to them again.
i think the only thing i can to is to agree to the reduced though still too high payment and then pay what i can .