Finance A$$holes

Dirkster

Hi there,

Just a question regarding car finance as my GF is getting dogs abuse on the phone. She worked in the UK for almost 2 years before returning home but while there she bought a car on finance. She informed them when she was moving and put in all the necessary forms for the transfer of address and direct debit bank account number.

Since then though, 3 months ago, each month she has had to ring because the money didn't come out of the account for that month and each month they've said that the problem has been remedied and that it will come out the following month.

Because of the hassle she's having she's applied for a bank loan which has been approved and will get the money Friday to pay off the finance.

The problem is the finance crowd have been ringing her threatening her all this week that they're sending a collections agency tomorrow because she hasn't paid, even though she's said that she rang each time and that she'll have the entire loan cleared by friday.

They keep saying its her responsibility and want to charge her a £200 fine for passing to a collectors agency. The arrears is £400 roughly from them messing up the direct debit.

Any advice on rights in this kind of situation or what to do? I've told her to ring them, tell them (again) what the situation and to otherwise stop trying to bully her and she has the call recorded.

Advice?

wonski

Dirkster wrote: »

Hi there,

Just a question regarding car finance as my GF is getting dogs abuse on the phone. She worked in the UK for almost 2 years before returning home but while there she bought a car on finance. She informed them when she was moving and put in all the necessary forms for the transfer of address and direct debit bank account number.

Since then though, 3 months ago, each month she has had to ring because the money didn't come out of the account for that month and each month they've said that the problem has been remedied and that it will come out the following month.

Because of the hassle she's having she's applied for a bank loan which has been approved and will get the money Friday to pay off the finance.

The problem is the finance crowd have been ringing her threatening her all this week that they're sending a collections agency tomorrow because she hasn't paid, even though she's said that she rang each time and that she'll have the entire loan cleared by friday.

They keep saying its her responsibility and want to charge her a £200 fine for passing to a collectors agency. The arrears is £400 roughly from them messing up the direct debit.

Any advice on rights in this kind of situation or what to do? I've told her to ring them, tell them (again) what the situation and to otherwise stop trying to bully her and she has the call recorded.

Advice?

Just give them a call on Friday when the balance is clear and it should be the end of it.
I am a bit surprised they accepted irish account for direct debit tough. The UK account numbers have the same setup with sortcode and accounts numbers, but i don't think they could debit foreign account. That is probably why the payments failed.

Not nice people to deal with, had that before, and paying off ended all the calls. Not sure what with 200 pounds extra they want. Probably just to scare you and to make sure you pay quickly.

Dirkster

wonski wrote: »

Just give them a call on Friday when the balance is clear and it should be the end of it.
I am a bit surprised they accepted irish account for direct debit tough. The UK account numbers have the same setup with sortcode and accounts numbers, but i don't think they could debit foreign account. That is probably why the payments failed.

Not nice people to deal with, had that before, and paying off ended all the calls. Not sure what with 200 pounds extra they want. Probably just to scare you and to make sure you pay quickly.

Ya perhaps. She filled out the correct forms and stuff for transfer to foreign residence (she's big on forms unlike myself ) She tried paying the arrears today with 2 different Visa's and that failed as well. How fast do collection agencies act over here? I know they're more than likely spoofing with it but just to be sure.

wonski

Never dealt with one over here... Maybe some money forum will be better for you. Are you sure they hired collectors here to chase it up?
I only dealt with UK ones, and they were happy to slash the debt by 50% (i just told them i can't pay more), but this was relatively small credit card debt, and they probably paid even less to the bank...

bmstuff

Dirkster wrote: »

Ya perhaps. She filled out the correct forms and stuff for transfer to foreign residence (she's big on forms unlike myself ) She tried paying the arrears today with 2 different Visa's and that failed as well. How fast do collection agencies act over here? I know they're more than likely spoofing with it but just to be sure.

You have no legal obligation to pay up those agencies. You can safely ignore them, but make sure the matter is settled with the loan agency.

Dirkster

bmstuff wrote: »

You have no legal obligation to pay up those agencies. You can safely ignore them, but make sure the matter is settled with the loan agency.

It was the finance crowd that said a charge would be incurred of £200 for them contacting the collection agency. This sound right?

wonski

Dirkster wrote: »

It was the finance crowd that said a charge would be incurred of £200 for them contacting the collection agency. This sound right?

Probably some terms and condition of the loan. Have a look at money forum (there is big uk one - don't remember the name). Above all pay as soon as you can.

bmstuff

Dirkster wrote: »

It was the finance crowd that said a charge would be incurred of £200 for them contacting the collection agency. This sound right?

Well you gave them the opportunity several times to address the matter. So you are not liable to any recovery charge. Ask them for their account details, IBAN and all, wire the funds in express and be done with it. Do this in the morning and call them back in the afternoon.

cartell_best

Hire purchase and finance agreements are enforced differently in each EU state. In the UK, the regulatory body has the right of repossesion under terms as does any country. I would suggest that if you still have the T&C's of said contract, that you review them under a European perspective rather than a local perspective (UK). In any event, should the company act in a way that involves repossesion or an attempt to add a contract holder to a deafulting credit list outside of the contracts origin, it would possibly be impossible/illegal. In fact I would go so far as to say bordering criminality and subject to prosecution.

Dirkster

She's at work at the moment so told her to call into the bank on her way out and talk to them. Do they have Chapps paymments here? I know the guy I bought the car off did this when I got my car last month to ensure the finance was cleared that day.

pcardin

Too much debt is on your GF's sholders. That's the main problem. :rolleyes:

Dirkster

pcardin wrote: »

Too much debt is on your GF's sholders. That's the main problem. :rolleyes:

I don't get you?

bmstuff

cartell_best wrote: »

Hire purchase and finance agreements are enforced differently in each EU state. In the UK, the regulatory body has the right of repossesion under terms as does any country. I would suggest that if you still have the T&C's of said contract, that you review them under a European perspective rather than a local perspective (UK). In any event, should the company act in a way that involves repossesion or an attempt to add a contract holder to a deafulting credit list outside of the contracts origin, it would possibly be impossible/illegal. In fact I would go so far as to say bordering criminality and subject to prosecution.

No any entity can seek for a local court order from any to any juridiction. This is well covered by EU laws. Now those recovery agencies have a tendency to ignore laws and even involve themselves in documentation falsification in order to scare the subjects. But again, those agencies can not touch you, unless they have a court order, which they rarely have.

Anyway this is going off topic.

Dirkster

Dirkster wrote: »

It was the finance crowd that said a charge would be incurred of £200 for them contacting the collection agency. This sound right?

tell them that's fine but you'll charge them 200£ for the inconvenience and fees for incorrect DDs

Dirkster

bmstuff wrote: »

No any entity can seek for a local court order from any to any juridiction. This is well covered by EU laws. Now those recovery agencies have a tendency to ignore laws and even involve themselves in documentation falsification in order to scare the subjects. But again, those agencies can not touch you, unless they have a court order, which they rarely have.

Anyway this is going off topic.

So unless the collection agency have a court order they can't touch the car? I can't understand the impatience of this crowd, they want to talk to a collection agency tomorrow even though she's said she'll pay it off friday in full.

Marcusm

Time to calm down and stop worrying about somebody taking the car - they simply won't have the legal authority to do that here immediately. Clearly whoever she is dealing with is incredibly silly. They will have taken her bank account details and because they are in the same format (6 digit sort code, 8 digit account number) they have assumed that they could process a direct debit when they can't. The banks can't even sort that out for their own credit card accounts cross border.

As you want to clear the finance, it should be simple enough to transfer the money to them - preferably via a SWIFT transaction. SWIFT is like an international version of CHAPS except it's much more powerful. While the money can be with them very quickly, it will take a while for them to identify the payment and the person on the phone is unlikely to have access to the real time SWIFT information.

You need to speak with someone at the finance house who appears to know their stuff. The only way they can sort that out is if they do. They will have to provide you with a SWIFT address (preferably with an IBAN) plus a reference so they can identify it quickly. Which finance house is it?

Fundamentally, they have screwed up both ont heir administration and also, they should not have allowed your GF to take the car outside the country (and presumably reregister it) as that has reduced their security.

You should also get your girlfriend to check her credit status. This will have had an impact int he UK and I don't know if the Iriish Credit Bureau takes information from the UK.

Dirkster

Marcusm wrote: »

Time to calm down and stop worrying about somebody taking the car - they simply won't have the legal authority to do that here immediately. Clearly whoever she is dealing with is incredibly silly. They will have taken her bank account details and because they are in the same format (6 digit sort code, 8 digit account number) they have assumed that they could process a direct debit when they can't. The banks can't even sort that out for their own credit card accounts cross border.

As you want to clear the finance, it should be simple enough to transfer the money to them - preferably via a SWIFT transaction. SWIFT is like an international version of CHAPS except it's much more powerful. While the money can be with them very quickly, it will take a while for them to identify the payment and the person on the phone is unlikely to have access to the real time SWIFT information.

You need to speak with someone at the finance house who appears to know their stuff. The only way they can sort that out is if they do. They will have to provide you with a SWIFT address (preferably with an IBAN) plus a reference so they can identify it quickly. Which finance house is it?

Fundamentally, they have screwed up both ont heir administration and also, they should not have allowed your GF to take the car outside the country (and presumably reregister it) as that has reduced their security.

You should also get your girlfriend to check her credit status. This will have had an impact int he UK and I don't know if the Iriish Credit Bureau takes information from the UK.

Thanks, an informative post. How do you check your credit status? I might mention that to her after this is all settles, if I said it to her now it'd probably drive her over the edge.

bmstuff

Marcusm wrote: »

Time to calm down and stop worrying about somebody taking the car - they simply won't have the legal authority to do that here immediately. Clearly whoever she is dealing with is incredibly silly. They will have taken her bank account details and because they are in the same format (6 digit sort code, 8 digit account number) they have assumed that they could process a direct debit when they can't. The banks can't even sort that out for their own credit card accounts cross border.

As you want to clear the finance, it should be simple enough to transfer the money to them - preferably via a SWIFT transaction. SWIFT is like an international version of CHAPS except it's much more powerful. While the money can be with them very quickly, it will take a while for them to identify the payment and the person on the phone is unlikely to have access to the real time SWIFT information.

You need to speak with someone at the finance house who appears to know their stuff. The only way they can sort that out is if they do. They will have to provide you with a SWIFT address (preferably with an IBAN) plus a reference so they can identify it quickly. Which finance house is it?

Fundamentally, they have screwed up both ont heir administration and also, they should not have allowed your GF to take the car outside the country (and presumably reregister it) as that has reduced their security.

You should also get your girlfriend to check her credit status. This will have had an impact int he UK and I don't know if the Iriish Credit Bureau takes information from the UK.

Not really. You do transfers with swift anyway and iban is a mandatory field. You cant wire without iban from irish banks.

Also loans when given to customers also include the creation of an account. Any movement on the said account can be seen immediately by the said loan house.
So they wont need to locate the money.

Marcusm

bmstuff wrote: »

Not really. You do transfers with swift anyway and iban is a mandatory field. You cant wire without iban from irish banks.

Also loans when given to customers also include the creation of an account. Any movement on the said account can be seen immediately by the said loan house.
So they wont need to locate the money.

1. Don't have to use SWIFT for transfers.
2. IBAN is only mandatory on certain retail bank systems, certainly not a mandatory field for the SWIFT system.
3. Loans/account - not all car finance companies are banks; not all use an account system.
4. Having the money highlighted may assist in suppressing the enforcement action - it might be better for it to be kicked out of the finance company's normal account system and highlighted for allocation.

Like I said, a proper conversation with someone who understands both your GF's desire to repay early and also to have the enforcement action forestalled.

cartell_best

bmstuff wrote: »

No any entity can seek for a local court order from any to any juridiction. This is well covered by EU laws. Now those recovery agencies have a tendency to ignore laws and even involve themselves in documentation falsification in order to scare the subjects. But again, those agencies can not touch you, unless they have a court order, which they rarely have.

Anyway this is going off topic.

It isn't going off topic. Jurisdiction is an international aspect of any given law... What makes the EU a unique but sound economic forum is that international trade on a personal basis is decided on a local basis. That "local" basis is founded on the rights of any given individual to undertake a commitment but outside the remit of an original contractual commitment.

I'm sorry, but in lay mans terms, any law being governed by a single state cannot be conferred on to a union.

bmstuff

Marcusm wrote: »

1. Don't have to use SWIFT for transfers.
2. IBAN is only mandatory on certain retail bank systems, certainly not a mandatory field for the SWIFT system.
3. Loans/account - not all car finance companies are banks; not all use an account system.
4. Having the money highlighted may assist in suppressing the enforcement action - it might be better for it to be kicked out of the finance company's normal account system and highlighted for allocation.

Like I said, a proper conversation with someone who understands both your GF's desire to repay early and also to have the enforcement action forestalled.

Dude you do realise banks that provide intra euro bank transfers outside of the swift system in Ireland would be considered as marginals?

Also you clearly have no idea what the IBAN is. This is a verification code that contains the sort code, account number etc. So when you say this is only used by some retail banks, you have not a light of clue, I transfer money from aib and boi to the UK mainly, and the iban has to be enterred, along with account number, sort code, full address of the payee and building society.

Also car loans are more than often underwritten by banking societies, even if you signed a loan with a 3rd party company that is not a bank a such, but a loan reseller.

Now those discussions are pointless, out of topics, and OP knows what to do now.

bmstuff

cartell_best wrote: »

It isn't going off topic. Jurisdiction is an international aspect of any given law... What makes the EU a unique but sound economic forum is that international trade on a personal basis is decided on a local basis. That "local" basis is founded on the rights of any given individual to undertake a commitment but outside the remit of an original contractual commitment.

I'm sorry, but in lay mans terms, any law being governed by a single state cannot be conferred on to a union.

Any entity can seek judgment in the UK and can apply to an Irish court to get this UK judgment enforced in Ireland. In most cases it is granted, unless circumpstances changed dramatically.
This apply to any country in the world. This is regularly used in debt and familly matters and is well defined by international law.

Marcusm

bmstuff wrote: »

Dude you do realise banks that provide intra euro bank transfers outside of the swift system in Ireland would be considered as marginals?

Also you clearly have no idea what the IBAN is. This is a verification code that contains the sort code, account number etc. So when you say this is only used by some retail banks, you have not a light of clue, I transfer money from aib and boi to the UK mainly, and the iban has to be enterred, along with account number, sort code, full address of the payee and building society.

Also car loans are more than often underwritten by banking societies, even if you signed a loan with a 3rd party company that is not a bank a such, but a loan reseller.

Now those discussions are pointless, out of topics, and OP knows what to do now.

I'm not your dude; your experience of SWIFT transfers is limited to online systems which the retail banks use - that is the system they use to input SWIFT, each of the banks can override the IBAN requirements if necessary.

I do know what an IBAN is and I even know which are the check digits and how to compute them!!

I'll agree that my experience is limited - by having been a director of the asset finance company which owned one of the largest multi brand car finance companies in the UK and which was owned by a bank. I even discussed this with people int he operations department of one of those companies to check some of the stuff.

It might not accord with your experience, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Sorry if this seems gruff or rude.

cartell_best

bmstuff wrote: »

Any entity can seek judgment in the UK and can apply to an Irish court to get this UK judgment enforced in Ireland. In most cases it is granted, unless circumpstances changed dramatically.
This apply to any country in the world. This is regularly used in debt and familly matters and is well defined by international law.

I'm sorry, but international law dictates that freedom of movement is not limited by financial constraints but by a want of movement. Financial movement may be monitored but is not, and as part of any constitution....a given limit.

People can quiet freely move within the province's of any union with worry of a detrement effect to their financial character due to their use of a financial institution that is soley within one given economic exstablishment, extremely limited. United Kingodom law as does any other country hold treatment of contract, much more different than the next. My apologies to those that see this has gone way off topic.

Marcusm

THe joke is that a judgement of a UK court is not even expected. IN the UK, a car finance agreement will include provision to permit the repossession of a car without need for a court order and that is what the OP is worried about. If the car's in Ireland, he has little to worry about as that cannot be effected in Ireland. further as the GF is trying to pay it off, it's highly unlikely that there would ever be a court action. What is important, however, is the impact of the application of enforcement action on her credit rating and whether this would leech across to Ireland and what she needs to do to get the payments across and recognised in the UK.

Dirkster

Marcusm wrote: »

THe joke is that a judgement of a UK court is not even expected. IN the UK, a car finance agreement will include provision to permit the repossession of a car without need for a court order and that is what the OP is worried about. If the car's in Ireland, he has little to worry about as that cannot be effected in Ireland. further as the GF is trying to pay it off, it's highly unlikely that there would ever be a court action. What is important, however, is the impact of the application of enforcement action on her credit rating and whether this would leech across to Ireland and what she needs to do to get the payments across and recognised in the UK.

Ah no hassles for the off topic, quite interesting really.
Ya I think Marcusm from my viewpoint that this is the important point. Basically can they take the car, how to pay them the money fast and will her credit rating be affected by this in the UK and would this transfer over.