BMW or Audi Diesel

Slattsy

Hey lads,

Hopefully in the next month or two I'll be in a position to upgrade my car...
Im looking for some advise, thoughts, things to be wary of and so forth on something :

I've been looking at BMW 3 Series and the Audi A4 (both diesel), years 2008/2009 and maybe 2010 (if possible) but im not spending more than 20k.

Other than the basics, regrettably im not ridiculously clued in with cars, so some simple advise, preferences and in particular bad experiences you've had with either the above will be of great benefit to me.

Many thanks for anyone that takes the time to reply, it is appreciated greatly.

Veloce

Slattsy wrote: »

Hey lads,

Hopefully in the next month or two I'll be in a position to upgrade my car...
Im looking for some advise, thoughts, things to be wary of and so forth on something :

I've been looking at BMW 3 Series and the Audi A4 (both diesel), years 2008/2009 and maybe 2010 (if possible) but im not spending more than 20k.

Other than the basics, regrettably im not ridiculously clued in with cars, so some simple advise, preferences and in particular bad experiences you've had with either the above will be of great benefit to me.

Many thanks for anyone that takes the time to reply, it is appreciated greatly.

Just out of interest, why have you decided to look at Audi / BMW brands?

Slattsy

Currently drive a 2003 318 petrol so I have some knowledge of them, just not the diesels.

Regarding the Audi, well I've driven the A4 before and found it a lovely car to drive. I only know one lad that has one, only a year and so far so good he says. But its only a year...

You might be thinking why I've set my sights on those cars?
Well I've had VWs before, so I fancied a change, and my Father drives a TDi Passat and its given him plenty of trouble over the years.

I don't like Fords, sorry to any enthusiasts out there.

Mercs are a car I've never liked but the C class could be an option.

I guess the looks of the BMW and Audi has some bearing, fabulous looking cars.

Idbatterim

what kind of mileage are you doing Op?

Slattsy

Idbatterim wrote: »

what kind of mileage are you doing Op?

I've averaged it at about 15000 km per year.

Nissan doctor

Slattsy wrote: »

Currently drive a 2003 318 petrol so I have some knowledge of them, just not the diesels.

Regarding the Audi, well I've driven the A4 before and found it a lovely car to drive. I only know one lad that has one, only a year and so far so good he says. But its only a year...

You might be thinking why I've set my sights on those cars?
Well I've had VWs before, so I fancied a change, and my Father drives a TDi Passat and its given him plenty of trouble over the years.

I don't like Fords, sorry to any enthusiasts out there.

Mercs are a car I've never liked but the C class could be an option.

I guess the looks of the BMW and Audi has some bearing, fabulous looking cars.

Well Passats and A4's share all mechanical parts, so reliability between the two will be the same, depending on what engines are fitted.

IMO just make sure you aren't drawn in by the badges, they aren't any more or less reliable then any other brand these days. Go and test drive the cars along with others like the Lexus IS200/220d, Honda accord etc.


15k a year is also very borderline for a modern diesel, what sort of driving is it?

Slattsy

I am slightly borderline I realise that, but the gf is from Sligo and we live in Dublin, so there will be plenty if motorway miles a month when we go there, at the very least one trip anyway. Possibly even 2 every odd month.
Twice a week I've football training and that's an M50 journey for me, so I will be able to open her up !!

I've asked you specifically before on another thread about dmf issue's, but I figure I'll be ok with what I'll be doing.

I hope !!

Nissan doctor

Slattsy wrote: »

I am slightly borderline I realise that, but the gf is from Sligo so there will be plenty if motorway miles a month, at the very least one trip anyway. Possibly even 2 every odd month.
Twice a week I've football training and that's an M50 journey for me, so I will be able to open her up !!

I've asked you specifically before on another thread about dmf issue's, but I figure I'll be ok with what I'll be doing.

I hope !!

Well with regular trips like you mention then you should be ok.

Slattsy

Cheers. There will def be regular motorway miles.

Will have a look at Lexus and Honda. But did read somewhere, possibly here, that the Lexus is far from reliable. Lovely car though.

Nissan doctor

Slattsy wrote: »

Cheers. There will def be regular motorway miles.

Will have a look at Lexus and Honda. But did read somewhere, possibly here, that the Lexus is far from reliable. Lovely car though.

There where some problems with head gaskets on early IS220's but if your looking at 08/09 + then that won't be a problem. Aside from that there will be no difference in reliability in general IMO.

WacoKid

Are you looking at a 4-pot or 6-pot diesel?

If the latter then the 530d is one of best engines/cars of recent times

Slattsy

WacoKid wrote: »

Are you looking at a 4-pot or 6-pot diesel?

If the latter then the 530d is one of best engines/cars of recent times

I'd have assumed 4 pot is the norm on most, unless it's a more powerful car?

I think a 5 series is out of my pay range.

Blazer

WacoKid wrote: »

Are you looking at a 4-pot or 6-pot diesel?

If the latter then the 530d is one of best engines/cars of recent times

indeed..I'd pick a 5 series over 3 series/A4 any day.
Bought my first BMW last year and it was a 520D..have gotten a lend of a 316i and 318i from the garage when I drop it in for a service etc and I thank the gods I went for the 520D everytime I drive them.
Its not that the 318i is a bad car but compared to a 5 series...well there's no comparison really.

Slattsy

Blazer wrote: »

WacoKid wrote: »

Are you looking at a 4-pot or 6-pot diesel?

If the latter then the 530d is one of best engines/cars of recent times

indeed..I'd pick a 5 series over 3 series/A4 any day.
Bought my first BMW last year and it was a 520D..have gotten a lend of a 316i and 318i from the garage when I drop it in for a service etc and I thank the gods I went for the 520D everytime I drive them.
Its not that the 318i is a bad car but compared to a 5 series...well there's no comparison really.

But there is a fairly big price difference

WacoKid

You will pay a premium for a 520d as its a great car and lots of folk want them. The 530d is more expensive and a bigger engine but will be higher spec etc. too. Both should hold their value fairly well as the E60 looks as if it will be popular generation 5 series for years to come.

Slattsy

WacoKid wrote: »

You will pay a premium for a 520d as its a great car and lots of folk want them. The 530d is more expensive and a bigger engine but will be higher spec etc. too. Both should hold their value fairly well as the E60 looks as if it will be popular generation 5 series for years to come.

I'd love to be able to even consider getting a 5 series but its outta my league !!

Blazer

Slattsy wrote: »

But there is a fairly big price difference

you'd think that

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3472174

You'd get a 08 now from a BMW dealer for about €21-22 with a 2 year warranty.
If you decided to buy privately you'd pick up an m-sport version 09 for around the same money

Slattsy

Blazer wrote: »

Slattsy wrote: »

But there is a fairly big price difference

you'd think that

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3472174

You'd get a 08 now from a BMW dealer for about €21-22 with a 2 year warranty.
If you decided to buy privately you'd pick up an m-sport version 09 for around the same money

Yeah that's not a huge rise.

I guess if one was showing up at 21 or 22k somewhere I could get the dealer down a bit. Between myself and the gaffer we put a 20k limit on it though. And really I don't want to break that barrier.

WacoKid

I'd advise test driving the 3 and 5 series before making a final call

Blazer

WacoKid wrote: »

I'd advise test driving the 3 and 5 series before making a final call

definitely..drive the 3 series first though to see the difference between your curent car and it,
You do not want to drive the 5 series first and then get into a 3 series
I'd imagine the 7 series would be the same over the 5 series

MidlandsM

WacoKid wrote: »

You will pay a premium for a 520d as its a great car and lots of folk want them. The 530d is more expensive and a bigger engine but will be higher spec etc. too. Both should hold their value fairly well as the E60 looks as if it will be popular generation 5 series for years to come.

the 530 will not hold its value well.............at all

WacoKid

MidlandsM wrote: »

the 530 will not hold its value well.............at all

What I have seen a good m-sport with low mileage should hold some of its value due to desireablilty.

A banged up SE with high mileage and run on red diesel will obviously not.

Slattsy

Not a lot of love out there for the Audi is there..
Everyone on boards seem to drive a BMW.

jimbomalley

Drive an 06 A4 2.0D. Love it to bits! Great over long journeys as the seats are very comfortable and it's a pleasure to drive. Have the tan interior too, way nicer than bog std black, recommended (unless you have kids that is!). I know there are problems regarding the oil pump with chain drives and what not in the 2L diesel but got my mechanic to check this out last oil change and all is a ok. Presuming 08/09 model has a lot of the problems in earlier 2Ls sorted out. IMO the newer model A4 is a better looking machine that the same era 3 series but thats a matter if opinion. Test drive every option, it's a lot of cash to be forking out so you better be sure you like it

Slattsy

I do agree on that I also think the A4 is a better looking animal, but it doesn't always come down to looks.

If as Nissan Doctor says that its much of a muchness, then it will probably come down to what car feels better once I get a spin.

BraveDonut

Why is 15K/year 'borderline' for a diesel.
Surely you will still get the value of MPG, less road tax, etc?

Aepos

Hi all,

I've had a 318d 09 from new very economical car (Efficient Dynamics) 70+ mpg on a run and 45 to 50mpg around town. Only thing to watch out for is some suffer from clutch judder, as do some 1 series. This has recently been sorted by BMW bringing out a modified clutch and pressure plate assembly. Mine was replaced under warranty last month and is now perfect. Only have 15000 miles on the car from new and the clutch started intermittently juddering from around 8000 miles.

Have mine serviced by David Prentice Portadown first class people to deal with no Hassle with warranty etc. Highly recommended.

Ae

Blazer

BraveDonut wrote: »

Why is 15K/year 'borderline' for a diesel.
Surely you will still get the value of MPG, less road tax, etc?

Service costs for diesels are normally more expensive.
Added to the complexity are DPF (diesel particle filter) and turbos.
Low mileage (short journeys) doesn't really give the engine time to warm up and they have to be at a certain temp before the DPF kicks in.
Short journeys mean your dpf gets clogged and never auto-regens thus leading to turbo failures etc.
In other words...a couple of thousand euro to repair.

A lot of people never look beyond the price of fuel and tax..I know I didn't when I bought my one but I'm well brushed up on it now.
I do about 20k miles a year and save about €80-100 a month on diesel over petrol in my last car.
So savings of €1000 a year..however my car tax is dearer by about €200 so now only saving €800 a year.
Add in the increased service costs and it quickly whittles it down.
If I had to pay for a dpf/turbo replacement I'd be down by about a grand easily.

But still..I love the car and was prepared to take the risks

josephsoap

Slattsy wrote: »

Not a lot of love out there for the Audi is there..
Everyone on boards seem to drive a BMW.

I drive a 130bhp 2003 A4 , have it over four years now, never gave any trouble apart from bushings to get it through NCT, they are a super car delivering power and still getting over 50 mpg (mines a 6speed)

My next car will be a 08 or 09 A4, hope to get a s-line this time,

I'd pick the A4 over the 3 series mainly because it's a better looking car IMO and I live on a local road that is not gritted in snow frost so the A4 will get me to work being front wheel drive, but that's prob not a factor in your decision op.

Gumbo

MidlandsM wrote: »

the 530 will not hold its value well.............at all

:eek: I just sole an 03 E39 530d for 6k!
Well above the donedeal average. Good clean, genuine straight cars will always sell and sometime gain a premium over the others if you get the right buyer.

Slattsy wrote: »

Not a lot of love out there for the Audi is there..
Everyone on boards seem to drive a BMW.

Im BMW, have always been, i just know them....sort of.
But the new age Audi's are way way nicer imho, my cousin just bought a 2012 A6 3.0TDi Quattro SLine and my god its unreal, i'd have it over the current F10 535d anyday! Same goes for the newage A4 SLine's, they are far nicer than the comparable BMW, again imo.

Slattsy

josephsoap wrote: »

Slattsy wrote: »

Not a lot of love out there for the Audi is there..
Everyone on boards seem to drive a BMW.

I drive a 130bhp 2003 A4 , have it over four years now, never gave any trouble apart from bushings to get it through NCT, they are a super car delivering power and still getting over 50 mpg (mines a 6speed)

My next car will be a 08 or 09 A4, hope to get a s-line this time,

I'd pick the A4 over the 3 series mainly because it's a better looking car IMO and I live on a local road that is not gritted in snow frost so the A4 will get me to work being front wheel drive, but that's prob not a factor in your decision op.

Well when I'm down the country over the winter it could certainly be a factor, one which I never even considered, so that's an excellent point you've brought up.

Slattsy

BraveDonut wrote: »

Why is 15K/year 'borderline' for a diesel.
Surely you will still get the value of MPG, less road tax, etc?

What Blazer said.
By all accounts I'll need to get the car doing a certain speed, distance a week to avoid dpf problems, but I think with the trips I do I should be fine.

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

Well when I'm down the country over the winter it could certainly be a factor, one which I never even considered, so that's an excellent point you've brought up.

Was it ever a factor to date in the 318?

Blazer

Slattsy wrote: »

What Blazer said.
By all accounts I'll need to get the car doing a certain speed, distance a week to avoid dpf problems, but I think with the trips I do I should be fine.

if not a good 20-30 min burn above 3,000 revs should sort it

My normal work trip is about 20 mins drive ,at the weekend I'd do a lot more and give the engine a bit of a workout to make sure it auto-regens.

Slattsy

RoverJames wrote: »

Slattsy wrote: »

Well when I'm down the country over the winter it could certainly be a factor, one which I never even considered, so that's an excellent point you've brought up.

Was it ever a factor to date in the 318?

I only have it since April 2011, so it has not been an issue for me.

Slattsy

Blazer wrote: »

Slattsy wrote: »

What Blazer said.
By all accounts I'll need to get the car doing a certain speed, distance a week to avoid dpf problems, but I think with the trips I do I should be fine.

if not a good 20-30 min burn above 3,000 revs should sort it

My normal work trip is about 20 mins drive ,at the weekend I'd do a lot more and give the engine a bit of a workout to make sure it auto-regens.

As a matter of interest, while driving do you actually know when it regenerates?

Gumbo

Slattsy wrote: »

As a matter of interest, while driving do you actually know when it regenerates?

no, dont think so.

Slattsy

kceire wrote: »

Slattsy wrote: »

As a matter of interest, while driving do you actually know when it regenerates?

no, dont think so.

There's no puff of black smoke from the exhaust or anything or a small noise that last for a few seconds?

Blazer

Slattsy wrote: »

There's no puff of black smoke from the exhaust or anything or a small noise that last for a few seconds?

You'll smell it when you get out of the car..for ages I was wondering wtf was wrong with my car until I researched it online.
On the E60 at 75c and above the dpf regen will kick in online.
Other people report hearing a low grumble from the rear of the car but for me I always know when I get a burning smell after getting out of the car.
For a regen to take place..at least on my car (E60) the tank must be more than 1/4 full, temp above 75c and have driven a number of miles above 60mph..luckily there's a motorway near me

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/62581-how-do-i-tell-when-my-dpf-has-startedfinished-regen/

Apparently if you have the diagnostic tool you can tell when it last regenned and force a regen next time you drive...methink's its time to get one

Nissan doctor

BraveDonut wrote: »

Why is 15K/year 'borderline' for a diesel.
Surely you will still get the value of MPG, less road tax, etc?

Its been done a million times, Diesels, modern diesels especially, are not suitable for low mileage use, nor do they make financial sense for that type of use.