15,5 min bike improvement. 7 min run improvemnt

peter kern

kilkee female winner hell of the west times in 2011...249 th place 480 Fem 6 35-39 T3 00:25:05 (055) 00:01:36 01:31:28 (369) 00:01:00 00:49:00 (270) 02:48:08

2012 27th place 02:27:49 Female 1 28:01:00 00:59 01:16:04 00:51 00:41:51
from totaly non aero road bike to , tt bike cheap cosmic aero wheels and aero helmet.
no hr no power meter. retul bike fit toally changed.

Bit like Fazz improvement I think he improveed in valentia from 81th to 10th or 11th
she from 249 th to 27th ( and with out the swim f up and crash on bike-that left helmet cracked god knows between 15th and 17 th anyway that dosnt count but i always see and excuse section on this board ;-)

can we agree she dosnt need a power meter but bike handling skills first ????

couerdelion

Unless there's a control subject how do you know she wouldn't have gone even faster with a power meter?

peter kern

I give up ;-)

BTH

Using the second placed female as a control subject, she biked 4:30 faster this year and ran only 12 second faster.

So thats some impressive improvement, but anyone can improve without a power meter. Would/Could she have improved further with one?

peter kern

2nd placed female did not have best day ( despit toe warmer very cold on bike) , and on the run needed to save legs for this weeks race and she was clear enough.

speedyj

I like those transition improvements too :-)

d4r3n

How many hours per week training this year vs. last?

RacoonQueen

Coach me for free next year and I'll be your control subject. :cool:

mloc123

So it only cost her €2400 to improve then?

longshank

peter kern wrote: »

kilkee female winner hell of the west times in 2011...249 th place 480 Fem 6 35-39 T3 00:25:05 (055) 00:01:36 01:31:28 (369) 00:01:00 00:49:00 (270) 02:48:08

2012 27th place 02:27:49 Female 1 28:01:00 00:59 01:16:04 00:51 00:41:51
from totaly non aero road bike to , tt bike cheap cosmic aero wheels and aero helmet.
no hr no power meter. retul bike fit toally changed.

Bit like Fazz improvement I think he improveed in valentia from 81th to 10th or 11th
she from 249 th to 27th ( and with out the swim f up and crash on bike-that left helmet cracked god knows between 15th and 17 th anyway that dosnt count but i always see and excuse section on this board ;-)

can we agree she dosnt need a power meter but bike handling skills first ????

so the TT bike made a big difference to her bike and run...technology does work;)
PS-where can you get cheap cosmic wheels???

Fazz

Very impressive improvements alright there indeed.

I have had similar fortune as you mention and to be honest folks, I've been open about it but I'd put the single most important reason down to a very good coach.

Hell I've probably tried more of the gadgets and other methods in the process but the real value is definitely quality coaching.

I think I saw she's in for Athlone too or was that just Vanessa?
Will be interesting to compare splits and progress up with the likes of Aoife Lynch and Jennifer Duffy assuming both get to Athlone fit.

I'm sure you're looking forward to reviewing this as much as her!

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

kilkee female winner hell of the west times in 2011...249 th place 480 Fem 6 35-39 T3 00:25:05 (055) 00:01:36 01:31:28 (369) 00:01:00 00:49:00 (270) 02:48:08

2012 27th place 02:27:49 Female 1 28:01:00 00:59 01:16:04 00:51 00:41:51
from totaly non aero road bike to , tt bike cheap cosmic aero wheels and aero helmet.
no hr no power meter. retul bike fit toally changed.

Bit like Fazz improvement I think he improveed in valentia from 81th to 10th or 11th
she from 249 th to 27th ( and with out the swim f up and crash on bike-that left helmet cracked god knows between 15th and 17 th anyway that dosnt count but i always see and excuse section on this board ;-)

can we agree she dosnt need a power meter but bike handling skills first ????

Sweet fvck Peter. you are like a rabid dog with a bone.

mloc123

longshank wrote: »

peter kern wrote: »

kilkee female winner hell of the west times in 2011...249 th place 480 Fem 6 35-39 T3 00:25:05 (055) 00:01:36 01:31:28 (369) 00:01:00 00:49:00 (270) 02:48:08

2012 27th place 02:27:49 Female 1 28:01:00 00:59 01:16:04 00:51 00:41:51
from totaly non aero road bike to , tt bike cheap cosmic aero wheels and aero helmet.
no hr no power meter. retul bike fit toally changed.

Bit like Fazz improvement I think he improveed in valentia from 81th to 10th or 11th
she from 249 th to 27th ( and with out the swim f up and crash on bike-that left helmet cracked god knows between 15th and 17 th anyway that dosnt count but i always see and excuse section on this board ;-)

can we agree she dosnt need a power meter but bike handling skills first ????

so the TT bike made a big difference to her bike and run...technology does work;)
PS-where can you get cheap cosmic wheels???

Oh I hadn't factored in the cost of the bike and cheap wheels. So maybe about €4000 in total? Could have bough a power meter, copy of TARWAPM and a copy of the training bible for a lot less

BennyMul

Peter,
how long is she in the sport, was the improvement down to the bike, wheels and\or training.
Will there come a point where these gain wont be easy to come by and that's where we need to start using tools, (HR Power etc)

thanks,

peter kern

its the third year of triathlon.
about 33 % more training but much more consistency and since she dosnt train much no rest weeks.
I would say gear about 6 min advantage maybe a it less as rain slowed down a bit. so maybe 5-6 min
2500 euro till the end of the year for 20 plus min improvement is not bad you need to deduce a few things a she trains with the club I coach,so I see her 3 times a week. then last year 0 prize money this year we are already at 1400 so its already down to 3000.so lets assume we go up to 2 k its 2500 p a the sponsorship offers have come in so this sounds all quite cost effective to me. if she wants she couldprob sell bike and wheels and then she has a almost a black 0 at the end of the year. for science gear and coaching.

peter kern

BennyMul wrote: »

Peter,
how long is she in the sport, was the improvement down to the bike, wheels and\or training.
Will there come a point where these gain wont be easy to come by and that's where we need to start using tools, (HR Power etc)

thanks,

A lot of improvement comes that we built a great positive environment with the t3 tri club with super positive training partner

Its unlikely that she needs a powermeter hr if I see her at 2-3 sessions a week.and at races and get frequent emails. I know whats happening ( and unfortunately i dodnt see many coaches at races, which I dont understand. since a powermeter can only tell you so much, seeing the athlete before during and after a race a powermeter will never be able to tell you .
last week we had a session where we had athletes training togheter that combined 18 wins this year training at one session (its open to my athletes that are not t3 member)
I am a firm believer that success creates success and this year we broke the critical mass and the plan is to now do the same with males. We have shown that we can do it . if you look where t3 was 2 years ago( one of the very slow clubs) then last year ago and this year you see a pathway. it was once one of the slowest clubs in ireland at kilkee 2012 we had 1st 7th and 9th place with less than 50 members. and trust me 7th and 9th wont be 7th and 9th next year. and they improved also 15 min from last year and one girl has 6 min improvement in gear the other 3min. that positive environment is key for me and everybody is happy if the other person performs. And then I am lucky that she is very smart and at the same time listens very well.
the first person to congratulate her was last years kilkee winner also a pb3 athlete and this is the way I would like it a positive place. and likewise she would be thrilled if aoife does well this weekend or when vanessa won Athy .the kilkee winner wheels will be on the Bike of another pb3 dark horse this weekend..... At todays session a nat champ was towed on the run by another female that has won 3 nat series races this year and took it easeir on the bike today. I saw the best session I have ever seen from a p3 athlete) . So I feel its a win win situation and on a smaller scale what happens in Leeds at the moment.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

A lot of improvement comes that we built a great positive environment with the t3 tri club with super positive training partner

Its unlikely that she needs a powermeter hr if I see her at 2-3 sessions a week.and at races and get frequent emails. I know whats happening ( and unfortunately i dodnt see many coaches at races, which I dont understand. since a powermeter can only tell you so much, seeing the athlete before during and after a race a powermeter will never be able to tell you .
last week we had a session where we had athletes training togheter that combined 18 wins this year training at one session (its open to my athletes that are not t3 member)
I am a firm believer that success creates success and this year we broke the critical mass and the plan is to now do the same with males. We have shown that we can do it . if you look where t3 was 2 years ago( one of the very slow clubs) then last year ago and this year you see a pathway. it was once one of the slowest clubs in ireland at kilkee 2012 we had 1st 7th and 9th place with less than 50 members. and trust me 7th and 9th wont be 7th and 9th next year. and they improved also 15 min from last year and one girl has 6 min improvement in gear the other 3min. that positive environment is key for me and everybody is happy if the other person performs. And then I am lucky that she is very smart and at the same time listens very well.
the first person to congratulate her was last years kilkee winner also a pb3 athlete and this is the way I would like it a positive place. and likewise she would be thrilled if aoife does well this weekend or when vanessa won Athy .the kilkee winner wheels will be on the Bike of another pb3 dark horse this weekend..... At todays session a nat champ was towed on the run by another female that has won 3 nat series races this year and took it easeir on the bike today. I saw the best session I have ever seen from a p3 athlete) . So I feel its a win win situation and on a smaller scale what happens in Leeds at the moment.

Again you cannot get away from the lack of improvement in the field of the years, male and female. Are your athletes getting better in comparison to the field or is this just a changing of the guard?

duffyshuffle

peter kern wrote: »

kilkee female winner hell of the west times in 2011...249 th place 480 Fem 6 35-39 T3 00:25:05 (055) 00:01:36 01:31:28 (369) 00:01:00 00:49:00 (270) 02:48:08

2012 27th place 02:27:49 Female 1 28:01:00 00:59 01:16:04 00:51 00:41:51
from totaly non aero road bike to , tt bike cheap cosmic aero wheels and aero helmet.
no hr no power meter. retul bike fit toally changed.

Bit like Fazz improvement I think he improveed in valentia from 81th to 10th or 11th
she from 249 th to 27th ( and with out the swim f up and crash on bike-that left helmet cracked god knows between 15th and 17 th anyway that dosnt count but i always see and excuse section on this board ;-)

can we agree she dosnt need a power meter but bike handling skills first ????

Should this not be on www.adverts.ie?

BennyMul

duffyshuffle wrote: »

Should this not be on www.adverts.ie?

Im almost sold, but will have to add it to the Confessions list to get past the wife,
Peter do you cater for the budget athlete?

longshank

BennyMul wrote: »

Im almost sold, but will have to add it to the Confessions list to get past the wife,
Peter do you cater for the budget athlete?

before you cough up for a coach....have him prove that the coach improvements aren't just a coincidence.
Taking a coach means you have decided to take your training to a different level and take the sport more seriously, if you made that decision but decided to self coach the knowledge you would gain having to figure it out for yourself could mean you would improve more in the long term?? Is the coaching effect purely coincidence/short-term/placebo effect??

BennyMul

longshank wrote: »

before you cough up for a coach....have him prove that the coach improvements aren't just a coincidence.
Taking a coach means you have decided to take your training to a different level and take the sport more seriously, if you made that decision but decided to self coach the knowledge you would gain having to figure it out for yourself could mean you would improve more in the long term?? Is the coaching effect purely coincidence/short-term/placebo effect??

At the moment I can't afford to pay for a coach anyway(based on the prices I have seen online).
I do agree with you on the proving part, I have met a number of "cycling coaches" that have done a course but haven't a clue on how to actually train a person, only know the theory,
personally I need to know why Im doing a set, what will be gained from it. I do not like the approach of dictating what to do with no more information.

As for next year (if Im allowed ) I will probably self-coach, Read all the material I can get and find out what works for me (and silly questions here). however I would like the additional confidence that a coach who believes in you brings,

tunney

BennyMul wrote: »

At the moment I can't afford to pay for a coach anyway(based on the prices I have seen online).
I do agree with you on the proving part, I have met a number of "cycling coaches" that have done a course but haven't a clue on how to actually train a person, only know the theory,
personally I need to know why Im doing a set, what will be gained from it. I do not like the approach of dictating what to do with no more information.

As for next year (if Im allowed ) I will probably self-coach, Read all the material I can get and find out what works for me (and silly questions here). however I would like the additional confidence that a coach who believes in you brings,

I help a few people with their training. I would like to think I have an idea of what I am doing I do a good job.

That being said I really miss my old coach. Self coaching is hard. I've tried to make myself accountable to friends and the wife but its not the same as having a programme done up on a weekly basis and then being accountable for hitting it. Too easy to rejig training in your head.

peter kern

duffyshuffle wrote: »

Should this not be on www.adverts.ie?

ups I thought this was adverts.ie since all race organicers go there and promote their races and athletes promote themselves with training blogs ;-)

longshank

peter kern wrote: »

ups I thought this was adverts.ie since all race organicers go there and promote their races and athletes promote themselves with training blogs ;-)

don't worry Peter....actually being at races coaching your athletes is better than any adverts.ie...despite my sceptical comments about coaches, I do believe in the good ones, I just think there are a lot of bluffers out there in the sports/fitness coaching world and the good ones can be hard to find.

peter kern

few adverts use facts. I backed it up with numbers ;-)
It will be hard for anybody to blow a hole in my advert, if one does a few google searches where those athletes where a few years ago.



Ouote I just think there are a lot of bluffers out there in the sports/fitness coaching world and the good ones can be hard to find.
quote.

dosnt this go with everything from A -Z and not just sport.
banks Politicians etc etc

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

few adverts use facts. I backed it up with numbers ;-)

Surely not???? Would that not be the application of science?

peter kern

how many world champs has joe friel coached anyways. Since we are at this point . Or total immersion for arguments sake ?

people buy marketing so the sports industry gives them bull ****.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

how many world champs has joe friel coached anyways. Since we are at this point . Or total immersion for arguments sake ?

people buy marketing so the sports industry gives them bull ****.

Whats this if not PB3 marketing?

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

Surely not???? Would that not be the application of science?

would application of facts sound better ?

peter kern

do you have the answer dave?

its O for both and they are world famous ......

peter kern

than ask people who is john hellermans
and they shrug their shoulders.

pgibbo

peter kern wrote: »

than ask people who is john hellermans
and they shrug their shoulders.

Interesting guy Peter.

Most people that do tri are very new to it and may or may not follow the PRO circuit. So unless you have a keen interest in the history of the sport or have been around for a long time then most wouldn't have a clue who he is. Is 4 years the average duration for people sticking with triathlon?

Besides, most people are so busy shopping for the latest gadget they don't have time to research guys like him

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

Whats this if not PB3 marketing?

Annoying at this stage.

BTH

Anyone would think Peter is stuck for a few athletes with the sales pitch in this thread and the sport science one!!

peter kern

sorry to have hurt your feelings.
I was asked what was the improvement, and I said what the reson of the improvement was and I dont think I said it was coaching that was the main reason for the improvement.
than you mentioned cost and i can prove to you that she has more price money income than coaching cost.

RayCun

peter kern wrote: »

2500 euro till the end of the year

sweet ****, triathletes do love spending money :eek:

BTH

peter kern wrote: »

you can ask LCD if he thinks Iam short of athletes ;-)

Thats only because you don't seem to coach any guys, except Paul Carroll!!

longshank

peter kern wrote: »

I just think there are a lot of bluffers out there in the sports/fitness coaching world and the good ones can be hard to find.
quote.

dosnt this go with everything from A -Z and not just sport.
banks Politicians etc etc

ye and look what happened when we trusted them.....and interestingly doing the same thing bluffer coaches do i.e. pushing too hard for short term success without adequate knowledge of what is really going on and without a thought for the long term.

couerdelion

peter kern wrote: »

how many world champs has joe friel coached anyways. Since we are at this point . Or total immersion for arguments sake ?

people buy marketing so the sports industry gives them bull ****.

Is the only indicator of coaching success world champs?

How many people has Joe Friel influenced or motivated just through his writing?

longshank

couerdelion wrote: »

Is the only indicator of coaching success world champs?

How many people has Joe Friel influenced or motivated just through his writing?

+1 :you could even argue that coaching world champions is easy and purely luck and that getting the best out of less talented people with no spare time requires a much better coach. I bet a monkey could coach the Brownlees and they would still win!