Probably a stupid question.....

Mr.Crinklewood

..but why can`t guns be fitted with a GPS tracking device?. I mean more-so for the USA where they are legal and more prevalent.

At least then they could be tracked to incidents, when stolen they could be tracked, surely now there could even be technology so that they could not work unless they were near their owner.

As i said, probably a silly question...

EDIT:- Just realized that as this is in the sports section, i may have posted this in the wrong place...sorry!!

blindside88

Sounds like a good idea to me, but where would you put the tracking chip? The stock is removable and changeable and I assume the heat of the barrel would damage the chip ( I dont know how much heat they can take but just a guess). It would be a major deterant to stealing guns as the criminals could easily be tracked. No doubt some will say that it's an invasion of privacy and another way to keep tabs on us but i would personally never go out shooting without the mobile so I'm being tracked anyway

Cass

Three reasons. Cost, logistics, and practicality.

The cost of such a program would be huge. As it is the Gardaí (who are responsible for licensing firearms here) are already swamped with the current system. There is no money for an independant or civil body to control the licensing.

Secondly the logistics. Firearms are bought, and traded quite regularly. So everytime a new owner bought a gun it would mean reporting to the Garda station to have the chip "re-programmed" to the new owner's details. As it stands mosts tations only have one firearms officer, and unless the FO is there no application is processed. So it goes back to my point above about man power.

Lastly is the practical use of a chip. It must be placed in a position where the owner cannot access it (for fear of abuse), and also where the elements or as said above the actual mechanics of the firearm cannot disrupt the function of it. All firearms have moving parts, some more than others, and the heat, and recoil (kick of a gun) of a firearm can be extreme. Imagine trying to use a CD player while doing 60 mph over an endless roads of speed ramps.


Anyway it is simply not workable in any sense, and that's without getting into the personal issues. I don't bring a phone when out shooting, and the houghts that someone can track my every move is worrying. As firearm owner we go through more security checks than any other group i the country. Which includes character referees, background checks, medical evidence, on the spot homes checks, etc, etc. Meaning if we have been granted a firearms license the Gardaí have deemed us competent to have and use a firearm. Any further intrusion would be met with extreme resistance.

juice1304

when is enough enough? there would still be illegal guns if there were gps tracking devices in firearms as any good machinist could make firearms if they wanted there are enough out there as it is anyways. There are people in pakistan who make copies of firearms with little more than some hand files. All these kinds of things only affect the people who don't need to have the government or police knowing where they are at all times.
If people are worried about firearms being stolen then they should make sure their security is up to scratch and not buy the cheapist safe they can get their hands on and get a monitored alarm etc.. i would rather pay the extra cash [which I have] and sleep soundly knowing that the garda will be at my house long before anyone gets into my safe than try and track them after the fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGVianQJsmQ

virminhunter

Think its a great idea, I've a feeling something like that would be very small and would fit in the butt of a gun no problem.

IRLConor

It's not worth doing really, for a bunch of reasons.

• There's no point trying to add trackers to illegal guns, since most guns in circulation would pre-date the addition of the trackers and any gun with the tracker would have it removed or disabled.
• Constantly tracking the whereabouts of legal guns would be an invasion of privacy for the owners.
• In addition to the GPS receiver you'd need a radio transmitter of some sort too and a network for it to transmit to. If you use the phone network or any of the existing radio networks are used, you'll need to pay the network operators. Who pays for this? The gun owner? The state?
• The vast majority of guns don't have a power source. (The power source would have to be long-lived and non-removable.)

In theory, if there was a way of adding a lightweight, passively powered, non-removable, jam-resistant tracker to my gun in a way that didn't affect the accuracy and could be activated only by me I'd consider it for the off-chance that my gun was stolen so that I could get it back and have the scumbag caught. That's a long way off though.

virminhunter

IRLConor wrote: »

It's not worth doing really, for a bunch of reasons.

• There's no point trying to add trackers to illegal guns, since most guns in circulation would pre-date the addition of the trackers and any gun with the tracker would have it removed or disabled.
• Constantly tracking the whereabouts of legal guns would be an invasion of privacy for the owners.
• In addition to the GPS receiver you'd need a radio transmitter of some sort too and a network for it to transmit to. If you use the phone network or any of the existing radio networks are used, you'll need to pay the network operators. Who pays for this? The gun owner? The state?
• The vast majority of guns don't have a power source. (The power source would have to be long-lived and non-removable.)

In theory, if there was a way of adding a lightweight, passively powered, non-removable, jam-resistant tracker to my gun in a way that didn't affect the accuracy and could be activated only by me I'd consider it for the off-chance that my gun was stolen so that I could get it back and have the scumbag caught. That's a long way off though.

I see, didn't realise they were so technical.

Edit, just found this, it'd be worth anything to catch the bastards red handed
http://back2you.com/store/product_info.cfm?product_id=26

rowa

Didn't sinn fein try to include this or something like it when ahern was banning centrefire pistols ?

IRLConor

Yup: http://www.sinnfein.ie/newsroom/tid=14982/42

Putting aside the hilarity of SF pretending to have any sort of moral authority to talk about firearms legislation, it's a sign that they don't (or at least Aengus Ó Snodaigh doesn't) have a clue about anything even vaguely technical.

IRLConor

virminhunter wrote: »

Edit, just found this, it'd be worth anything to catch the bastards red handed
http://back2you.com/store/product_info.cfm?product_id=26

That's smaller than the last one I saw, interesting.

I still have nowhere to fit it in my rifle though.

tomcat220t

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

..but why can`t guns be fitted with a GPS tracking device?. I mean more-so for the USA where they are legal and more prevalent.

At least then they could be tracked to incidents, when stolen they could be tracked, surely now there could even be technology so that they could not work unless they were near their owner.

As i said, probably a silly question...

EDIT:- Just realized that as this is in the sports section, i may have posted this in the wrong place...sorry!!

Ive looking this up for a while and its do able !
Its the future and coming soon,imo.
Not a silly question ..... just great thinking :cool:

Grizzly 45

In theory anything is possible.In practise a whole different ball game.
Yes you could shrink a GPS transmitter down to possibly now fit in a buttstock[which has been done]as you can get covert GPS trackers now not much bigger than a match box that work on the SMS messaging and phone systems,for less than a 100 euros.However their battery life is appx 80 hours in standby,and as pointed outguns dont come with batteries or power sources.
Secondly,while you are tracking this,how long and who will respond that quick to the location??A police force wont do this unless it is coming thru another recognised security company[like an alarm company] as it might be an elaborate hoax to tie up police resources.
Thirdly how long will it be before "Gussie of Homeboy retail" figures out that these guns might have trackers in them somplace and starts to put the stolen items in a steel box ,or starts to take them apart minutes after stealing them?
Fourth,it wont make the blindest bit of difference to the illegal arms market as so aptly illustrated.
Fifth,I and anyone else who is sane would be ripping it out straightaway.
bad enough having intrusive big Brother ness in our lives without him coming out to the duck blind as well!:(
Should add to RE the OP original comparison to the USA.With 300 million known guns ,good luck trying to get them chipped or finding anyone bar maybe Sarah Brady or Hillary Clinton wanting to go along with the idea.

Longranger

When I go hunting I know that I have some peace and quiet from the rest of the world. Big brother can go and ****e if he thinks I'm giving him another way to track me down. We're watched enough as it is,and anyway,look at the figures. How many crimes involve legally held firearms? Leave us decent law-abiding shooters alone and start catching the pricks who are bringing in illegal firearms! A hundred years ago lots of people gave their lives for us to have a bit of freedom. LEAVE US WITH THE SHRED OF IT THAT'S LEFT FFS!

juice1304

Spot on, I think if the criminals can manage to import tons of cocain, herion etc.. they can manage a few guns too.

323

Would normally say , no such thing as a stupid question, in this case this is just the sort of statement that gets dumb civil servants and anti firearms nuts writing legislation to penalise law abiding sporting firearms owners.

Stupid in that no GPS/GNSS system can work if it cannot see its satellites (at least 3). Throw it in the boot of the car and the system wont work.

Grizzly 45

323 most GPS trackers nowadays dont need to have GPS all the time either.If they can recive a celluar network signal and send an SMS message they will work.Unless your car boot is heremetically sealed that no radio elecronic radiation can get in at all,a tracker will work fine from a boot of a car..
However if you were to put it in a gunslip lined with indsustrial grade aluminium foil or the same material used to secure your RIFID credit cards and ID.That would be the end of any gun tracking in real time.:P

FISMA

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

..but why can`t guns be fitted with a GPS tracking device?. I mean more-so for the USA where they are legal and more prevalent.

Why stop there?

Why not put a chip in you like we do dogs? This one, however, could deliver a nice fraction of an amp when the state believes that you may be in the process of committing a crime.

Sounds great, but will us commoners have executive privilege like Obama? If we cannot track guns to him, then why me?

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.